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Suda wants to make No More Heroes 3
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
Slicing a mook from shoulder to hip with a flick of the wrist is oh so satisfying.
Adding that little extra shake during the slow-mo time just to watch Travis slice everyone around him is something I wouldn't trade for all the graphics in the world
...but you know, opinions and all that jazz.
Adding that little extra shake during the slow-mo time just to watch Travis slice everyone around him is something I wouldn't trade for all the graphics in the world
...but you know, opinions and all that jazz.
AceBandage
Banned
Scenester said:
I never once had to spin my entire arm to get that to work.
In fact, shaking the remote up and down always did the trick.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
If you spun your whole arm round and round that was your choice, not the game's intent. I imagine most people used mostly wrist motions like I did. Still, that part of the game is not there to be "fun" it's there to make you make a (small) effort and isn't any better or worse than button mashing or analog stick movement used in other games. The slicing controls however do add to the visceral feel of the gameplay. Without them it's rather empty. Maybe we're easily entertained. Or maybe you're even easier entertained if you don't even want this extra layer.Scenester said:
Anyway if you don't like motion controls then clearly you have a completely different opinion to the series' creator and therefor should go for games that align to your tastes more instead of want games made with different ideals changed. Just a thought.
I mean, Suda felt it added to the game's feel and identity so you must think he's a real bozo to believe that shit since motion controls are so useless and crap and tiring with no extra payoff so why would you want more games from a dude that thinks so differently? You'll probably just find more to disagree with.
At least stick to games he's designing without motion controls from the start. NMH isn't it.
As for the AI stuff, I was blocked a lot more in NMH2 than 1. Maybe there was no guard break in 1 but you barely had to chage stance at all, just hitting on the same height they eventually stopped blocking anyway. In 2 you can't waste your time trying to guard break when there are a bunch of enemies around you anyway, and in later levels you're somewhat overwhelmed so it's best to play properly and take them out as fast as possible instead of hammer their block.
AceBandage
Banned
Scenester said:
Yes, yes I did.
It was also fun in MadWorld to slice people in half with a flick of the wrist.
Far more fun than "Press A" and infinitely more fun than rotating the analog sticks.
ShockingAlberto
Member
No, if you don't accept one side as OBJECTIVELY SUPERIOR then you aren't internetting hard enough.Serenade said:
And I internet as hard as possible.
RPGCrazied
Member
Lets hope the HD port of the first game sells well, so that they will give us an HD port of the second game too.
Alextended said:
So I'm not allowed to criticise an element which I think doesnt work well, of a game that I love? I didn't know there was a moratorium on free speech and the right to voice an opinion? Suda is a genius, I love his games. Killer 7 is the greatest game ever made. But you're saying I shouldn't be allowed to play a game becuase I percieved an element of said game as a flaw?
I mean I've seen some strange rebuttals before, but wow.
Scenester said:
You perceived the element of the game that allowed the game to exist a flaw. You certainly are allowed to play it, but I don't know why you would. It's why the game exists.
And trying to shoe his response off as extreme when it isn't anything of the sort is childish.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Did I say you aren't allowed to do anything? I asked a question. If Suda is a genius how is he wrong about motion controls? And hell, how is your opinion better than his opinion and better than my opinion and better than Ace's opnion and so and so forth for NMH's motion controls to be "bad" and in need of ditching as opposed to "not for you"?Scenester said:
Nicktals said:
lmao, I'm dying here. "If a game has a flaw why would you play it?" - shit I dunno man? Maybe the story and characters are awesome?. And how the hell do the motion controls "allow the game to exist"? It's a 3d brawler, with NMH2 able to be played with a Classic Controller. Saying that NMH exists SOLELY becuase of it's motion control scheme - just, shit.
I'm giving up, you people are insane
Zoramon089
Banned
Scenester said:
You're allowed to, but your complaint is the equivalent of complaining about games that use an analog stick because you control it with your whole hand as if it was a joystick. The designers can't account for how the users choose to play their games...
Scenester said:
Here, let's break it down to fucking first grade levels for you.
Q: Why does NMH2 exist?
A:
Because NMH was a huge success.
Q: Why was NMH created on the Wii?
A:
Because of the motion controls.
Look, the game is awesome for a lot of reasons, but the game (and the franchise), exist to you and me because of motion controls.
EDIT: And I never said "if a game has a flaw why would you play it". I said that if you perceive the cornerstone of a game as a flaw why would you play it. And it's a good question. Which still isn't answered.
And again you just shoe off an actual conversation like the other people are, in your words, "insane". It's really childish and not at all becoming to any discussion.
Rahxephon91
Banned
NMH is on the Wii because it was cheap to develop on.
Rahxephon91 said:
Is there a source for that? Certainly it helped a small developer. But I certainly recall in the initial stages of development that it was greenlit for the wii because the game fit motion controls very well.
edit: avatar quote. i get upset enough thinking about NMH2, I don't need more reasons to get upset over the franchise. gotta move on from this one.
Rahxephon91
Banned
I find it hard to believe the game that doesn't even use the motion controls that great and could easily work and maybe be better without them was made just because of the wii's motion controls.Nicktals said:
No, it makes more sense that Grasshopper, a very small studio that does anime games to fund Suda's games couldn't really afford next gen development and opted to make a game more inline with the costs that they can work with.
cj_iwakura
Member
NMH has my favorite use of Wii controls in anything ever, so eff the haters.
Zoramon089
Banned
Rahxephon91 said:
Because there's no argument you could come up with to back up the claim that it could work better without motion controls
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
do want
Scenester said:
No, it makes sense that a small studio had a strange game concept based around the concept of fighting bizarre enemies with a light-saber. After being enlightened to the premise of Wii, this concept is picked up and green lighted for the Wii, because of the motion controls.
It might not be a grand artistic vision, but it is why the franchise exists, insane individual.
Rahxephon91
Banned
?Zoramon089 said:
You could easily make an argument for them or against them. Some find them pretty annoying and pointless. I don't think the add that much to the game and don't make it less repetitive then the game already is. Actually, they add an unnecessary "minigame" on-top of the reptive and simple combat. I don't think they really make the combat special. I'm just whipping it around without any thought. They also possibly add to the repetitiveness as I'm doing a lot more then the simple combat and thus the game quickly becomes more tiring with them then it would without them.
Without the motion controls, it's possible you could focus on other aspects to make the combat less repetitive. It seems Grasshopper just thought motion controls on-top of the simple combat would achieve that, but it really didn't. Without the motion aspect, battles would probably go faster. Many times I've one shotted opponents, only to have to slash them with the motion controls. Taking that aspect out a lone would be an improvement for me.
Now I don't really care honestly. I played NMH2 with motion controls. It dosen't bother me really.
Nicktals said:
Are you forgetting that you still just mash the A button for most attacks? Hardly befitting of a lightsaber game, with a visionary, revolutionary control system, right? The motion controls simply have you wrist flicking, annoyingly every 10 seconds or so. Why aren't these motion controls more well implemented? They can't have been an afterthought, tacked on becuase they were developing for a certain platform, could they?
Rahxephon91 said:
And if I didn't have to go through the trouble of pressing a button, the game would be even faster. WTF are you talking about. Faster? Is that what you desire in an action game? You know what's the fastest? One button kills the whole screen, every time. Is that your ideal action game? "I can kill them as fast as the game can load 2012". The extremely long slashing action lends itself to the entirely visceral world of NMH. ugh..Make it less repetitive? It's a fucking beat-em-up. The game is what it is. AND IT IS GREAT. Why the fuck would you want to speed up, dumb down, it?
I blame COD.
PS: What are you talking about? One-shotting an oponent only to have to waggle? That is the fucking one shot. That's the whole fucking point.
I actually like that the games have different strengths and weaknesses. For me they're almost a complementary set, like Kill Bill parts 1 & 2. Summed together, they're one of my favorite experiences across all media.
And of course I want a sequel.
I really can't recall anyone touting NMH as having a "visionary, revolutionary control system".
The motion control is there to provide a venue to engage in physicality. A simple flick will suffice, but the game also responds to the player who wants to engage in violent motion. It's fakery, but it's effective fakery, and it's a fantastic game in which to vent your aggression.
The combat system isn't terribly deep, and its suitability for violent play-acting is probably its best feature, so I can't see using an anolog pad as anything other than anemic and pointless.
And of course I want a sequel.
Scenester said:
I really can't recall anyone touting NMH as having a "visionary, revolutionary control system".
The motion control is there to provide a venue to engage in physicality. A simple flick will suffice, but the game also responds to the player who wants to engage in violent motion. It's fakery, but it's effective fakery, and it's a fantastic game in which to vent your aggression.
The combat system isn't terribly deep, and its suitability for violent play-acting is probably its best feature, so I can't see using an anolog pad as anything other than anemic and pointless.
Scenester said:
First of all, you need to stop resorting to childish illogical fallacies and foolishness. Have you quoted me as saying the game involves a "visionary, revolationary control system"? No, you haven't. Because I never said that, or anything like that. If you need to counter an argument with hyperbolic lies, you should probably rethink your response, insane-individual.
Maybe the developer (and "genius", in your mind) decided that constant arm or wrist movement would be overkill (thus using the A button for regular attacks). But instead it would make for great gameplay to reserve those movements for the final blow.
If the game weren't on the Wii, it probably would have played like Blood+: One Night Kiss and by extension, Sidetracked but with a gun and wrestling moves, since they'd have access to more buttons.
Of the two, I've only played Sidetracked but the combat system is pretty basic stuff. The backbone of it all is built on the in-game music tracks and the accompanying combos each one gives you access to. Finishes had you press certain buttons, not unlike NMH's death blow motions.
Assuming the game had been designed without motion controls in mind doesn't inherently mean it would have been a better product as a result of that.
Of the two, I've only played Sidetracked but the combat system is pretty basic stuff. The backbone of it all is built on the in-game music tracks and the accompanying combos each one gives you access to. Finishes had you press certain buttons, not unlike NMH's death blow motions.
Assuming the game had been designed without motion controls in mind doesn't inherently mean it would have been a better product as a result of that.
Rahxephon91
Banned
My ideal action games is Devil May Cry 3. Where timing and combo choice and deployment is they key to the game. No More Heroes is never going to be that type of game. It's a simple brawler/button masher. You take on tons of enemies and kill them. That's and that's fine. The game is probably even less complex then CoD, I'm not sure why you have to bring in other games to bash, but whatever. The game is already very simple and enemies go down very quickly. That's what people like and that seems to be true sense Paradise has such negative feedback. The game is already fast and repetitive. Did you not read my post where I have said these things? What I said is I don't think the motion controls really add to the experience and just add on the repetitiveness which is already there. They have always felt tacked on to me and just slowed the pace of combat. I'm not sure how you think the game is about long slashing as enemies in the game go down very quickly, like in most brawlers. From my understanding this aspect of Paradise is why the game has negative feedback. With a game as reptive as NMH, I don't want that apprant repetitiveness to became even more obvious. The mashy and violent combat needs to be as fast as possible.Nicktals said:
And what I'm talking about is where my hit has obviously taken down the enemies bar only for to have to do the motion aspect for really no reason.
Scenester said:
But, using your logic, we can come to the conclusion (of what I said in my whole post, if you could have been arsed to actually quote me, instead of perverting my post into whatever the fuck you wanted) that the fastest action game would be one which can execute enemies as fast as they can be produced. So, instead of <insert fast action game here>, you would prefer <press A to kill all as fast as they can be loaded hypothetical game>.
Seriously, the moment you stop quoting and start 'interpre-quoting' is the moment you need to stop hitting "post reply" and start thinking more about your response.
EDIT: And again, your snide shit of "sorry if you couldn't figure that out" is childish, and of no consequence. Especially when you use so much faulty logic and reasoning that it actually makes you out to be an extremly 'insane-individual'. Trying to minimize someone who you can't reasonably respond to just minimizes yourself even further. 'insane-individual'.
Rahxephon91
Banned
How?PounchEnvy said:
That's the only thing that breaks up the button mashing of the game. The combat is not that deep as you said. If you remove the "unnecessary" motion aspect what do you have?Rahxephon91 said:
Press the same button until the enemy dies.
Now you could replace it with a button but that's extremely boring. Press a button to do a flashy move? Sounds like a QTE. Not to mention other games already do that where the motion aspects of NMH set it apart.
You could replace it with analog movement, yes, but I honestly find that really obnoxious.
I'd welcome a NMH3...on the Wii. They were definitely awesome niche quirky games w/ a very original style. So yeah, I'm interested in jumping back into epic bossfights. But it'd be great if there was real combat depth this time using WMPlus, and each boss wasn't just a "stage gimmick". I want to really face off w/ a crazy boss 1-on-1 w/ a deep WMPlus combat system! Make it happen Suda!
devastatorprime
Member
Miri said:
Already have that book =) What I would love is a book similar to Kozaki's Speed Grahper artbook "Shutter Kill." I want all the promo art, character art, concept art, weapon art and cg renders from both games all thrown into one book. Hell even add the erotica comic pics from Hero's Paradise and NMH2 preorder bonuses for the ultimate collection.
I can just imagine how awesome the cover alone would be.
Whoa now, I'm firmly in the "NMH had awesome motion controls" camp, but can someone not like an aspect of a game and still like the game as a whole? Whether motion controls were the games inspiration or point or whatever is mostly irrelevant, they weren't intrusive enough that not caring for them would be some automatic deal-breaker. Hell, Suda himself ended up including a motion free control option in the sequel. That doesn't make it seem like he considered them all THAT essential, did he?
That said, this is the first I've heard of someone disliking the motion implementation. It was (mostly) responsive, and where it wasn't, he didn't require a great deal of precision to offset that. For me, they added just the right amount of a visceral punch to really involve me in the combat in a genre that normally bores me to death.
Doesn't mean I'm going to hate on someone for disagreeing.
That said, this is the first I've heard of someone disliking the motion implementation. It was (mostly) responsive, and where it wasn't, he didn't require a great deal of precision to offset that. For me, they added just the right amount of a visceral punch to really involve me in the combat in a genre that normally bores me to death.
Doesn't mean I'm going to hate on someone for disagreeing.