I wrote a response to this shortly after it was posted, but didn't like it much so I let it sit around unposted... well, I finally got around to rewriting it, so here it is.
mAcOdIn said:
It's a mixture of both really in Charles's case. I mean, from the start there was no reason to assume she'd be handled better going of all the other characters' previous stories but there I was assuming that they would do something with her because it almost felt like they were going to. Silly me. If she'd been a little more cookie cutter I wouldn't have gone that far and assumed she was going to be what she ended up but she wasn't great from the start either or anything. Like his sister's not exactly great either and yet people liker her for a handful of traits and, well, seemingly not wanting Ichika's special sauce.
Why would you have thought that she'd get better handling than the others? In this kind of show that would defy all logic! Still though, you weren't entirely wrong, at least she was better than anyone else in the show.
Also, I seem to recall that it wasn't long before we all knew that her time as a good character was limited and that she'd quickly revert to being like the others, you did admit that it was just a matter of time (not that that was good or wanted, but that it was pretty much inevitable).
Also though, some of what you say here is kind of confusing... "If she'd been a little more cookie cutter I wouldn't have gone that far and assumed she was going to be what she ended up but she wasn't great from the start either or anything.", the second half of this sentence fades in comprehensibility... I think I know what you mean, but I'm not certain. You said that she was different, but also that she wasn't great from the start? Then why were you thinking that she might be better? I mean, apart form her being so much cooler than anyone else in the show.
I think I've said this before but I do not fucking buy this. I'm not saying women aren't portrayed terribly, they are, but I think there's several points of reference you have to use here when saying who's portrayed worse than who. Because you have actual people, boys and girls, men and women and you have the societal prescribed ideal man or woman, or young men or woman in this case and then you have the anime portrayal of these groups, none of them are the same. None.
Certainly true. But that doesn't mean that their portrayals are equally bad.
It is my opinion that for me to say women are portrayed worse than men in anime that I would also have to then hold women to their higher societal standard as opposed to just judging them like people, which is amusing because then the way I'd see it by me saying women are portrayed worse than men in anime then in actuality I would probably be judging women worse in reality. So let me try and explain this theory.
That doesn't make any sense, the whole point is that women are portrayed worse in anime than they are in reality. Higher societal standards? What?
What does a Man need to do in fiction? Not much really. Essentially all the man has got to do to fit the perceived "man" card is have a penis, use it as often or as little as he wants, come through when necessary and that's about it, everything inbetween is gravy because we can do whatever we want so long as in the end we come out on top. Now what do women need to do in fiction? Well they need to be fairly pure, they need to be monogamous, like their male stereotype they can also break down emotionally but they can do it more often, so they have one thing going for them, but they can't ever really doubt the male they gotta be loyal, I could go on and on with silly little shit but lets just stop this crap as they're just in school still in anime usually and we don't have to also drag in all the adulthood crap.
Some of this is true... but, you seriously don't see the extremes that anime regularly go to in these stereotypes as very, very sexist? Really? If so, you're quite wrong. Of course even though it's sexist it is true that there are stricter standards for women in society than there are for men, so having some of that isn't entirely wrong. But anime often goes way, way past that.
Some of the worst, I would say, (as I probably have before) is the characterizations of the female characters themselves... the ways that anime, particularly anime for men, makes its female characters act is just so horrible... your average weak guy in those animes is nowhere remotely as bad, he just isn't. (I know the reasons for this objectification, but knowing the reasons doesn't condone them.)
Anyways, the only reason you could say women are portrayed worse is if you hold them to their higher societal standing
What higher social standing? Women don't have a higher social standing...
while in reality what we should expect from men and women should be more equal.
Greater equality in treatment and opportunity is what I hope for, yes.
So looking at it from this perspective they're all fucking terrible and not so much because of what they do or want in their respective TV shows but because of how poorly they're written.
Absolutely not, the female characters are far, far worse. I mean honestly, how negative really are those weak-guy stereotypes you hate so much, particularly compared to the insane mix of craziness that females get portrayed as in anime so often? I know I said it before, but if you see that as equal I really think it's only because you have a bias towards looking at the male side first. Understandable, but that doesn't mean they're actually equal. (Note, I'm not saying that male characters in anime are fine, of course they have issues too... they just aren't quite as bad.)
A girl that really wants some dude's cock in an anime isn't necessarily a shitty character because she wants one dude's cock, from a monogamous societies' perspective they're already in the clear where as a guy who fluctuates between the woman of the week is also not necessarily a terrible character for that but really is pretty sad from that same perspective. Ah but society treats them different see, for a guy you can want them all, one or none but the second you treat women and men the same and view it just from a monogamous relationship standpoint the guy's actually the lamer character. Remove any social perception about who can have sex and with who and how often and all of a sudden none of that shit even matters and they're all shit just because they're whole inner workings can be written on the back of a napkin.
This is a clever argument, but it's also absurd when you think about it. I mean, of course you're right that women and men should be treated more equally when it comes to sexuality. Some of the reasons societies don't do this make sense (only women can get pregnant after all), but not to the degree of the inequality, and anime makes things more extreme from there. So yeah, I would say 'of course, and indeed, part of the problem definitely is that anime females aren't treated the same as males sexually...' Also of course though, that's because they aren't in Japanese society.
So sure, the mere act of a girl liking a guy like that isn't an issue, certainly, I agree with that. The problem is it doesn't stop there, far too often. While there certainly are shows which are exceptions (not in terms of being sexist or not, they almost all are, but in the worse of the stereotypes), in the okatu-centric anime market of today, the male main characters are often either extremely generic or outright losers. The girl or girls are often supposedly smarter, higher accomplished, etc. So why do they like this random guy? Well, as a standin for the dreams of the audience of course. In terms of plot though they usually come up with some lame excuse. I'm not saying all of this stuff should go away -- there is a degree of equality after all, there are some shows with a female main character surrounded by guys -- but even though it's easy to understand the whys of why things are as they are, it's still quite messed up.
So yeah, basically, sure, you're right about what you say there, but you leave out the more important points of who the character types are, what the genres are, etc. And also, you leave out some of the legacy of sexism -- after all, what does a guy-surrounded-by-girls harem show do but propagate negative stereotypes about sexuality and gender?
However, if anime females did act more like you say, more okay with sexuality, it might be a bit less bad, but few do... no, they're much more likely to be blushing maidens who need to be taught the ways by the guy (in the story, for hentai, or in the viewers' imagination, for normal tv anime). Oh, and on that note, the amount of sex in hentai that is rape is incredibly disturbing and has got to mean something negative somehow.
Of course, some might say "well watch other kinds of anime"... and indeed, that might make something of a difference. But it wouldn't change how pervasive this stuff is in a lot of the field.
Trust me, there are no winners in anime characterizations between the two sexes.
There are no winners, but some lose more than others.
You just need to take the cultural context, historical and institutional and popular sexism, and other such things into account, really.
But what really amuses me is how bad some of these characters are. You don't have to be a deep and well thought out character to just be awesome. Spoor from Crest/Banner of the Stars is fucking awesome and you're shown literally nothing but her awesome moments that are about all the same, she has essentially zero characterization and yet is still infinitely more interesting than all of the IS cast.
I haven't watched enough of that show to say, but still, it's probably true. With something like IS, the more they "build character" the worse the characters get because all it's doing is working from the stereotypical genre playbook that has built up, and that playbook is really stupid if you stop to think about it at all.
Sometimes amusing, but stupid. Of course though, the "sometimes amusing" part is what often saves these shows and might make them worth watching anyway... well, aside from ones like IS that fail in amusing ways across-the-board that is.
. So including my purple Eva Unit-01 t-shirt I now have three. 
