flintstryker
Banned
I chalk it up to the rule of cool
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Super Laser from Starkiller Base in EP7. Huh?
- Thread starter DarkJediKnight
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BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
All the posts in here completely miss the point with "it's space fantasy anything can happen! You're a nitpicking nerd!"
So it's a hyperspace beam. Cool. Explain that in the movie. No one ever discusses what the Starkiller actually does. It's cryptic.
So it's a hyperspace beam. Cool. Explain that in the movie. No one ever discusses what the Starkiller actually does. It's cryptic.
The worst offense of Starkiller wasn't being unbelievable but rather unnecessary. I think it's easier to nitpick something when it's clear that it doesn't work that well or is totally redundant.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
People are way, way too obsessive about shit like keeping distances between planets and whatnot consistent with reality. Yes, JJ and other sci-fi writers/directors/etc. totally don't understand that planets are far apart.
OR they understand the average person doesn't care (and that the people that whine are just very, very vocal minorities) and focus on creating effective shots instead. It's absurd the think that everything in film needs to be fully consistent, especially when not playing within the bounds of reality allows for better/easier to follow shot composition.
The Starkiller weapon is a hyperspace weapon, they say as much in the film. Why can you see it? Because that's more interesting and effective than seeing nothing. Why do the planets look closer together than possible? Because they probably felt it worked better than a montage of completely separate shots of planets blowing up. Why is the Starkiller planet so close to the star? Because it looks better than an ultra-wide shot of a speck of a star and impossible to see planet with a microscopic stream in between. etc..
Come on guys, this kind of pop critique is stupid, and it's the kind of stuff that causes average audiences to roll their eyes when you try to engage in actual critique. Especially since when you folks start whining about planet distances and "lol jj doesn't understand space" are ignoring that fact that the entire Star Wars saga fucks that kind of stuff up regularly, and in fact that overwhelming majority of sci-fi movies/books/shows/games do. Ships cruise around entire star systems in no time in the Star Wars universe, when not in hyperspace. Asteroid fields like in Empire don't exist, etc..
OR they understand the average person doesn't care (and that the people that whine are just very, very vocal minorities) and focus on creating effective shots instead. It's absurd the think that everything in film needs to be fully consistent, especially when not playing within the bounds of reality allows for better/easier to follow shot composition.
The Starkiller weapon is a hyperspace weapon, they say as much in the film. Why can you see it? Because that's more interesting and effective than seeing nothing. Why do the planets look closer together than possible? Because they probably felt it worked better than a montage of completely separate shots of planets blowing up. Why is the Starkiller planet so close to the star? Because it looks better than an ultra-wide shot of a speck of a star and impossible to see planet with a microscopic stream in between. etc..
Come on guys, this kind of pop critique is stupid, and it's the kind of stuff that causes average audiences to roll their eyes when you try to engage in actual critique. Especially since when you folks start whining about planet distances and "lol jj doesn't understand space" are ignoring that fact that the entire Star Wars saga fucks that kind of stuff up regularly, and in fact that overwhelming majority of sci-fi movies/books/shows/games do. Ships cruise around entire star systems in no time in the Star Wars universe, when not in hyperspace. Asteroid fields like in Empire don't exist, etc..
I had fun with the movie overall but everything about the Starkiller Base is some of the laziest brainless shit I've ever seen in a blockbuster sequel, especially from a narrative standpoint. Even if it's fantasy I demand more quality from the fiction I consume.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Both the Death Star 1 and 2 are mobile, with full hyperspace capabilities.
Again, more "criticisms" that apply to the original movies, yet aren't made.
I'm not even sure what the criticism is supposed to be here. I mean... yes?
Not to mention they made it into the planet itself and the act of literally destroying it's sun would fuck the shit out it.
spookyfish
Gold Member
It's actually not that hard.
a Master Ninja
Member
I'm fine with the idea of a Star Wars weapon fueled by a sun, but a planet-sized base absorbing an entire sun 1000 times its size, for like two bullets, was too crazy even for Star Wars.
spookyfish
Gold Member
That's actually not a bad idea/explanation. But it requires too much thought for an Abrams mind.
Melon Husk
Member
Whole scene had pretty much zero emotional impact on me. "I guess this is a thing now..."
They could have went for a ship or something but I guess that's not a big enough leap from the Death Star. The pre attack meeting seemed very self aware at how dumb making another Death Star but bigger was.
I don't know that sounds like a pretty crap idea as well.
spookyfish
Gold Member
Eh, I just thought it could actually explain why someone who has had zero training bested someone who's trained for years in a lightsaber fight. And, it's better than NO explanation, which Abrams excels at.
Luke's lightsaber? Later.
The Republic? Oh, don't worry about it.
The First Order? Seems they cropped up.
The Superweapon? Yeah, it just works.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
In the amount of time it took you to write that post, JJ and crew could have come up with a creative solution to justify why the exploding planets are visible in the sky. Just a line of exposition would do (maybe the first order wants the galaxy to see it so they project it across space? That'd be neat) Or if I were in the room I'd push them to brainstorm for an alternative way to show people reacting to faraway explosions. Screens work. They have holograms too.
It is a lazy plot contrivance. And I know, I know "lazy devs" comments often lack empathy for the turmoil of the creative process ... but as someone who has actually been involved in the creative process, I'd call it lazy if a peer suggested it. "they can just see it in the sky".... "Try harder. Next."
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Rey may not have trained with a saber, but we already know she's an extremely skilled fighter. The movie well-establishes this. As well as the fact that Rey's Force powers were already greater than could be expected. Also, Kylo has a big-ass hole in his gut after he got shot by a weapon the movie shows several times to be excessively powerful. And he was compromised after killing Han. And he was deliberately not trying to kill Rey, since he wanted to recruit her (and he obviously didn't want to harm the saber), whereas Rey was out for blood.
It's pretty well explained already.
Why on Earth is that remotely necessary beyond that extreme minority of people whining "BUT WHY CAN I SEE IT"? It doesn't make anything "better", your proposed changes adds nothing but silly and unnecessary exposition for the sake of consoling an irrelevant group of nitpickers who were going to nitpick about something else anyway.
I'm talking about the effect that destroying the sun would have on the planet.
I think there's enough in the film that already explains that criticism.
Starkiller in general makes the Death Star and finding its plans a lot less impactful when they're basically sitting around a table and after 2 minutes of discussion they come up with a plan to destroy it.
I did enjoy that part. But it doesn't change the fact that it was still a bad addition to the film.
I did enjoy that part. But it doesn't change the fact that it was still a bad addition to the film.
Oh yeah I'm totally with you there.
Let's also not mention how an Ice Planet stays an Ice Planet when it is this close to a star.
(Again ignoring how it could absorb and contain a fucking star)
Also was it even in orbit around the star? The thing should have gradually fallen into the star that close to the damn thing.
Holy fuck!!!
did this really happen?
Because, damn....
That type of self awareness was what made some of it more manageable though. Glad they didn't get super serious with Starkiller or make it more of a focus in the film.
I really don't get it when people start complaining about how unrealistic movies are, especially when it's a film set in space with people fighting with swords made of light. Like, are you for real? If you want to sit for 1,000 years to watch a planet be destroyed, be my guest, but I'm going to go watch some actual entertainment.
It's not really the same criticism though, is it? The Death Star 1 & 2 are much smaller and were built as a spacecraft, while Starkiller Base was built inside a freaking planet.
Yeah it wasn't that big a focus of the film until they destroyed the republic. It made for some pretty cool imagery so I'm not really hung up on it, I just wish they went with something better.
I'll take friendly criticism for one hundred Alex.
Yup that's where I'm at. I'd be much more hung up on it if it were as important to the film as the Death Star in ANH or had as much of a presence. I get they're both used as plot devices but the DS was much more involved and centralized in ANH. There's much more of a disconnect between Starkiller and the meat/potatoes of TFA.
PdotMichael
Banned
I have also strong opinions about the physics behind the lightsabers.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Why did they have to hide millions of light-years OUTSIDE of their Galaxy? I know Vader and the Emperor can sense them but isn't that a bit overkill too?
It really was just there. You could have had just a normal base on the planet and we as an audience would have lost nothing but then how would they have conveniently got rid of the whole of the republic and their fleet in two seconds flat.
Confidence Man
Member
They should've showed some kind of hyperspace hole open up between Starkiller base and the planet/system it was firing on, if that was the intention. The way it was presented visually simply doesn't make any sense, seeing the beam fire and slowly move across space before hitting it's target makes it appear the base is right next to the planet. And having Han and everyone see it in the sky makes even less sense; it's as if they're viewing it from a planet in the same system that just got destroyed.
Even space fantasy needs coherent storytelling, something Abrams clearly gave no shits about.
Even space fantasy needs coherent storytelling, something Abrams clearly gave no shits about.
MisterHero
Super Member
lol they hollowed out a planet and made it just as vulnerable as a death star
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I like you.
Based off a brief run by wookiepedia it seems the Star Killer is 6 times the diameter of the Death Stars.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
This isn't some under the hood "nitpick" you have to go digging for. It's a very basic mismatch with the logic of reality. Like if there were an explosion in Paris and you could see it from New York.
There were people taken out of the movie when this happened. Normal people, non-geeks, because it isn't difficult to do the math (planet in the sky explodes but planet isn't that close.... huh?). Bless you if you were unaware, it read to me as lazy storytelling upon my first viewing. I was taken out of it, and that's something the movie could have avoided very easily.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
In an atmosphere.
It really was just there. You could have had just a normal base on the planet and we as an audience would have lost nothing but then how would they have conveniently got rid of the whole of the republic and their fleet in two seconds flat.
The weird thing about the Starkiller attack scene is that I truly consider it one of the best scenes in the entire film. It's got emotional weight for both the resistance and Finn (who gets some really great visual character development here) and it's accompanied by a fantastic score.
On the other hand, it sort of just happens and we have no real investment in the people being killed. And it unnecessarily ups the anty on what a super weapon is in the universe. What's next.. a superweapon that destroys galaxies? They really just didn't need to go there and it added nothing to the story. Which translates into a third act that half feels uninspired.
It's still a fantastically filmed and scored scene though and I do love it.
call_kotaku
Member
The scene reminded me of the "we're caught in earth's gravity" scene from Into Darkness, in a "fuck you for making me think about how dumb this is".
If it was firing something that seemingly moved slower than the speed of light, then it made me think of:
It just broke suspension of disbelief nonchalantly, and the fact that it was ultimately sort of inconsequential for moving the plot along made it worse. Other stuff like the falcon dropping out of hyperspace inside the shield was arguably essential for moving the plot, but the laser stream dividing like someone taking a piss at night was just pointless.
If it was firing something that seemingly moved slower than the speed of light, then it made me think of:
- How are they seeing this instantly on multiple worlds? (possibly they didn't)
- How is it traveling instantly to another star system (maybe they were already in the same star system?)
- Why the fuck this is even remotely worth the effort (I guess the original death star wasn't either)
- shouldn't this thing have massive recoil? (I guess lasers should have recoil too)
It just broke suspension of disbelief nonchalantly, and the fact that it was ultimately sort of inconsequential for moving the plot along made it worse. Other stuff like the falcon dropping out of hyperspace inside the shield was arguably essential for moving the plot, but the laser stream dividing like someone taking a piss at night was just pointless.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'd feel a lot better about it if they didn't cut all the scenes on the Republic planet. They somehow made it less of a fleshed out target than Alderaan, which is saying something because we never even see Alderaan's surface. But it is personified in the person of Leia, and we feel something for the loss of the planet through her performance.
But the Republic planet (I don't even remember what it's called because it's not mentioned in the movie)... I feel nothing for that planet when it is destroyed. Truly sound and fury signifying nothing.
At least this one's due to late edits of the film, and not proper filmmaking stupidity.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
This whole scene really bothered me. The beam itself wasn't too much of a concern, but the orbital positioning of all the planets involved (or witnessing) the event was fucking broken.
Like, watching Vulcan implode from Delta Vega fucking broken.
Like, watching Vulcan implode from Delta Vega fucking broken.
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