You can actually skip that section of the level entirely!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09AII4XhXuA
-
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Super Mario 3D World for Wii U
- Thread starter Darklord
- Start date
You can actually skip that section of the level entirely!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09AII4XhXuA
Calamari41
41 > 38
It wasn't No True Scotsman bullshit (interesting to be called out for that in a thread filled to the brim with people literally saying that this isn't "REAL" Mario), as I explained in the rest of the post that you still to this point have pretended doesn't exist. I was talking about the base gameplay mechanics being incredibly similar, and saying that the main difference between 3D Land and Galaxy is the graphical presentation. To hate 3D Land, not just be disappointed in it, shows that you don't really enjoy the base gameplay which is shared between the two games, and I stand by that assertion.
If we're going to just throw logical fallacies at each other, though, I'll just accuse you of strawmanning me and call it a day.
Spieler Eins
Member
Yep. Although it don't think it really isn't that much of jumping to conclusions. I've also stated that they could still be hiding some major facts (and of course, it will have good and fun stage designs regardless), but I've replayed 3D Land just this year, and there's so many both big and little elements besides the obvious ones that are stripped straight from the 3DS game, so it really isn't too farfetched to expect that this will not offer the same experience that the previous games gave us on brandnew Nintendo hardware, nor that it will bring in the same innovation in core gamedesign and scenario that one was used to.
Maybe they can still pull it off, perhaps even somehow cram in a more adventurous narrative like 64, Galayx, etc. compared to 3D Land, but I'm not holding my breath after all evidence points towards the opposite. I mean, I'll also get it (not at launch), but considering the WiiU in general feels pretty lacklustre right now (I'm not seeing anything outside of W101 that doesn't look like straight last-gen recycling this year), this announcement was quite a nasty blow.
Sounds like a question a child in kindergarten would ask. Might as well close down 50% of NeoGAF if you aren't allowed to be disappointed (and hence neither excited?) by game announcements.
You know, this might sound callus, I think we'd be better served if someone accusing a group would instead accuse specific posters and call them out by name. These blanket statements made about a sub set of posters always gets the people who feel they are wrongly categorized instead of the people the accuser is actually talking about.
OK I was thinking up what I can put in that post so it might feel out of place right now, but here I go
I will try to explain this in a coherent way.
First of all, the setting. Pretty much every major (home console if your prefer that way) new Mario game introduced a new setting. In SMW we got a Dinosaur Island, in SM64 we got our first foray into 3D (so while it was Mushroom Kingdom, it looked drastically different to what we had gotten before), in SMS we had Delfino Isle and in SMG we went into space. This might not be major, but shaking up a formula certainly adds to games feeling fresh. In SM3DW we not only are taking a step back to a nearly 30-year-old now Mushroom Kingdom (in some incarnation of it most likely, it looks just like SM3DL so it probably is MK), but it's also a setting that had been revisited FIVE times in the last 7 years. That's a lot. This certainly adds to the feeling that the game doesn't feel as fresh as we wanted.
Second of all, still partially connected to level design, it's what had been thrown around several times here, that is the levels don't feel "organic". Ever since SMW the world in Mario game had felt somewhat real, especially in 3D Marios. In SM64 (except for Whomp's Fortress) all levels felt like a part of a bigger world. Yes, we teleported there through paintings and there were borders around it, but it felt like a part of a real world. The obstacles too were hills, bridges, crates, stairs - things like that, real things. The same in SMS, where even true platforming that wasn't there for the most part in SM64, was able to be put in the more real scenario with a clever inclusion of construction site. In SMG again, we got into space, but this planets did feel great and all the obstacles were real things and the smaller levels could be made by inclusion of smaller planets. In contrast, in SM3DW we get levels totally suspended in air, with no interconnectedness between them, and obstacles made of arbitrarily placed colorful blocks. This again, feels like a stepback compared to previous 3D Marios.
Gamepad integration. Every major 3D Mario included new consoles features at least a small part of the gameplay. SM64 showcased analog stick, SMS analog triggers with flood, SMG was less important to the gameplay but we still could shake to add momentum to our jumps and use pointer to collect star bits. It was less than what previous Marios did, but at least it was still something and I liked shaking to extend jumps. With SM3DW Nintendo yet again fails to deliver a proof of concept that gamepad could benefit full-fledged games. We were 100% allowed to expect they will include something. Tapping screen to search for hidden blocks and the game simply being beamed to the console feels somewhat lazy. As it's a multiplayer game they could have even toyed with some sort of asymmetric gameplay that Nintendo touted so much, but nope, neither is there anything here.
While we're at multiplayer. Not everybody has someone to play a 3D Mario with and lack of inclusion of online limits that even further. For us is simply completely a non-news in a series that up to this point was purely about singleplayer (it's hard calling SMG and SMG2 second player option a "multiplayer" with a straight face). It's a neat addition, but it's not gonna pull us over to the other camp because it completely doesn't matter to us. It' s a non-news, that's all.
Now maybe something about the meat of the game, gameplay. Every new Mario game had shaken up the concept considerably. It was always about collecting 120 somethings, but the core gameplay was drastically different. SM64 was introduction to 3D. SMS obviously had FLUDD. SMG had gravitation and how toying with it can be used to benefit gameplay. So far, SM3DW has... catsuit? Oh sure, it is an interesting addition and it will make for a more interesting game, but it's not gonna change the structure of the entire game the previous games had. 4 slightly different characters instead of the usual 2 (look at how both of SMGs had 2 characters yet it never was made a big deal or became a major bullet point!) will be interesting, but the core gameplay is repeated. It is still a 3DL-style game, with floating levels, 3 coins/stars/whatevers hidden in each one, with similar control scheme and familiar physics. It doesn't mean it's bad. It's simply not fresh.
And a more personal one, I really disliked the way SM3DL controlled compared to other 3D Marios. It was the first time I had problems with controlling Mario in a 3D space and I felt they were somewhat clunky. However I'd consider it as my personal point, as most people liked SM3DL controls. Still, if I am to explain why I am disappointed, I feel like I should include it.
That's the most important points. Most important of all - I AM NOT SAYING THE GAME WILL BE BAD. This is VITAL because too many people assume it. I'm saying I expected something more fresh and instead got something that looks mostly iterative. BUT! Iterative is not a dirty word. I will buy this game. I will play this game. I have no doubt I will enjoy this game. Greatly even. It will be a fantastic game, somewhere around 8.5-9.5 game, more leaning towards the latter. I just wanted to be blown away with something so far out that I didn't expect it. This simply isn't it. Due to the points outlined above, I fear this game simply won't be as bold, stunning and memorable as previous 3D Mario games.
All.
I will try to explain this in a coherent way.
First of all, the setting. Pretty much every major (home console if your prefer that way) new Mario game introduced a new setting. In SMW we got a Dinosaur Island, in SM64 we got our first foray into 3D (so while it was Mushroom Kingdom, it looked drastically different to what we had gotten before), in SMS we had Delfino Isle and in SMG we went into space. This might not be major, but shaking up a formula certainly adds to games feeling fresh. In SM3DW we not only are taking a step back to a nearly 30-year-old now Mushroom Kingdom (in some incarnation of it most likely, it looks just like SM3DL so it probably is MK), but it's also a setting that had been revisited FIVE times in the last 7 years. That's a lot. This certainly adds to the feeling that the game doesn't feel as fresh as we wanted.
Second of all, still partially connected to level design, it's what had been thrown around several times here, that is the levels don't feel "organic". Ever since SMW the world in Mario game had felt somewhat real, especially in 3D Marios. In SM64 (except for Whomp's Fortress) all levels felt like a part of a bigger world. Yes, we teleported there through paintings and there were borders around it, but it felt like a part of a real world. The obstacles too were hills, bridges, crates, stairs - things like that, real things. The same in SMS, where even true platforming that wasn't there for the most part in SM64, was able to be put in the more real scenario with a clever inclusion of construction site. In SMG again, we got into space, but this planets did feel great and all the obstacles were real things and the smaller levels could be made by inclusion of smaller planets. In contrast, in SM3DW we get levels totally suspended in air, with no interconnectedness between them, and obstacles made of arbitrarily placed colorful blocks. This again, feels like a stepback compared to previous 3D Marios.
Gamepad integration. Every major 3D Mario included new consoles features at least a small part of the gameplay. SM64 showcased analog stick, SMS analog triggers with flood, SMG was less important to the gameplay but we still could shake to add momentum to our jumps and use pointer to collect star bits. It was less than what previous Marios did, but at least it was still something and I liked shaking to extend jumps. With SM3DW Nintendo yet again fails to deliver a proof of concept that gamepad could benefit full-fledged games. We were 100% allowed to expect they will include something. Tapping screen to search for hidden blocks and the game simply being beamed to the console feels somewhat lazy. As it's a multiplayer game they could have even toyed with some sort of asymmetric gameplay that Nintendo touted so much, but nope, neither is there anything here.
While we're at multiplayer. Not everybody has someone to play a 3D Mario with and lack of inclusion of online limits that even further. For us is simply completely a non-news in a series that up to this point was purely about singleplayer (it's hard calling SMG and SMG2 second player option a "multiplayer" with a straight face). It's a neat addition, but it's not gonna pull us over to the other camp because it completely doesn't matter to us. It' s a non-news, that's all.
Now maybe something about the meat of the game, gameplay. Every new Mario game had shaken up the concept considerably. It was always about collecting 120 somethings, but the core gameplay was drastically different. SM64 was introduction to 3D. SMS obviously had FLUDD. SMG had gravitation and how toying with it can be used to benefit gameplay. So far, SM3DW has... catsuit? Oh sure, it is an interesting addition and it will make for a more interesting game, but it's not gonna change the structure of the entire game the previous games had. 4 slightly different characters instead of the usual 2 (look at how both of SMGs had 2 characters yet it never was made a big deal or became a major bullet point!) will be interesting, but the core gameplay is repeated. It is still a 3DL-style game, with floating levels, 3 coins/stars/whatevers hidden in each one, with similar control scheme and familiar physics. It doesn't mean it's bad. It's simply not fresh.
And a more personal one, I really disliked the way SM3DL controlled compared to other 3D Marios. It was the first time I had problems with controlling Mario in a 3D space and I felt they were somewhat clunky. However I'd consider it as my personal point, as most people liked SM3DL controls. Still, if I am to explain why I am disappointed, I feel like I should include it.
That's the most important points. Most important of all - I AM NOT SAYING THE GAME WILL BE BAD. This is VITAL because too many people assume it. I'm saying I expected something more fresh and instead got something that looks mostly iterative. BUT! Iterative is not a dirty word. I will buy this game. I will play this game. I have no doubt I will enjoy this game. Greatly even. It will be a fantastic game, somewhere around 8.5-9.5 game, more leaning towards the latter. I just wanted to be blown away with something so far out that I didn't expect it. This simply isn't it. Due to the points outlined above, I fear this game simply won't be as bold, stunning and memorable as previous 3D Mario games.
All.
Exterminieren
Banned
This only works if you ignore the differences in Mario's moveset between the two games, the removal of his speed and athleticism, the 8-way movement, the fact that many of 3D Land's best mechanics were toned down and less interesting versions of Galaxy 2's... you just ignore all of that and say that people are in it for the graphics, while ignoring the fact that people who prize a graphical presentation wouldn't go for a Wii game in the first place.
I dispute the idea that the mechanics are identical, I dispute that the gameplay concepts are anywhere near as polished as Galaxy's, and I dispute that people disliking how 3D Land plays aren't Mario fans. Hell, I dispute that there's that much of a graphical difference between the two; the difference in how they play is far more apparent that the differences in how they look.
Also, by-the-by, you may disregard anything I've said if you can point to me saying that 3D World somehow doesn't count as a true 3D Mario game.
God I love Mario Sunshine. That part behind the wheel was basically the only time I remember trouble with the camera, and the hotel part of Sirena beach.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Did you go to the Best Buy demos? I'm really not trying to be condescending, I just think you're really set on Mario having less speed/athleticism when from purely visual evidence on my part I can hardly tell the difference.
You're allowed to be dissapointed in a game you've never played, just like I'm allowed to think that it's pretty fucking stupid to do so.
3D Land uses 16-way movement with a locking mechanism thing so it locks a bit to 8-way movements to make it much easier to go in straight lines and the levels were all designed to keep this in mind. Made platforming more enjoyable.
I feel people who want a 64/Sunshine open-world game don't really care for he platforming aspect of platformers since it is arguable than they had small amounts of platforming. I realize this may be a large blanket statement, but I'm simply looking a what I liked about the games and it wasn't really the platforming (except those FLUDDless levels were godly).
I feel people who want a 64/Sunshine open-world game don't really care for he platforming aspect of platformers since it is arguable than they had small amounts of platforming. I realize this may be a large blanket statement, but I'm simply looking a what I liked about the games and it wasn't really the platforming (except those FLUDDless levels were godly).
Exterminieren
Banned
Kinda difficult to do that, living in Britain.
I have, however, played 3D Land extensively, which is what that post was actually talking about.
I don't think it's pretty fucking stupid to be disappointed that a game's heading in a direction that you don't like rather than one you do, and to be disappointed with the bits of the game that have been showcased.
This also makes the assumption that inherent to this disappointment is a resignation that the game will be bad, which isn't all that accurate as far as I can see. You can be entirely aware that the game will be fun and good while remaining disappointed in the direction that they've chosen to take it.
Calamari41
41 > 38
To take your last point first, I never even called you out. I posted my thoughts in general, addressing nobody, and you jumped down my throat, so I'm not going to get into a "search my post history, bro" fight with you.
As far as mechanics and gameplay concepts being identical, I addressed this in the post that set you off by describing 3D Land as toned down for portables, designed to be played in short bursts. I believe the team will up the ante on a fully powered home console and not shit out a bunch of horrible, short levels. As I said in the initial post. I will agree that the 8-way (it's actually more like 16-way) movement is more restrictive, but it makes for more accurate platforming in my opinion. At the very least we know they will design the levels around this.
So basically stop accusing me of ignoring things when I already addressed them. And get over the fact that somebody may have implied that you're not a "true fan," even though that clearly wasn't what I was trying to do. I was trying to compare base mechanics, as I have clarified something like 5 or 6 times now.
Edit: One thing I think people really need to consider is that this is being made by the exact same team that made Galaxy. I have trust in them to make this just as special as any other style Mario game would have been. It's not like Iwata gave this to Artoon or whoever. Didn't they say that this is the Mario game that they have always wanted to make, too? I know that saying you have faith isn't something that can be used in an evidence based argument, but really, I think with this team you can.
Sorry mods, I hope reposting this post for a new page is not much of an offence, cause I feel it's a decent post, adds something to the discussion, addresses many problems raised here and I see it got lost at the end of the previous page.
I will try to explain this in a coherent way.
First of all, the setting. Pretty much every major (home console if your prefer that way) new Mario game introduced a new setting. In SMW we got a Dinosaur Island, in SM64 we got our first foray into 3D (so while it was Mushroom Kingdom, it looked drastically different to what we had gotten before), in SMS we had Delfino Isle and in SMG we went into space. This might not be major, but shaking up a formula certainly adds to games feeling fresh. In SM3DW we not only are taking a step back to a nearly 30-year-old now Mushroom Kingdom (in some incarnation of it most likely, it looks just like SM3DL so it probably is MK), but it's also a setting that had been revisited FIVE times in the last 7 years. That's a lot. This certainly adds to the feeling that the game doesn't feel as fresh as we wanted.
Second of all, still partially connected to level design, it's what had been thrown around several times here, that is the levels don't feel "organic". Ever since SMW the world in Mario game had felt somewhat real, especially in 3D Marios. In SM64 (except for Whomp's Fortress) all levels felt like a part of a bigger world. Yes, we teleported there through paintings and there were borders around it, but it felt like a part of a real world. The obstacles too were hills, bridges, crates, stairs - things like that, real things. The same in SMS, where even true platforming that wasn't there for the most part in SM64, was able to be put in the more real scenario with a clever inclusion of construction site. In SMG again, we got into space, but this planets did feel great and all the obstacles were real things and the smaller levels could be made by inclusion of smaller planets. In contrast, in SM3DW we get levels totally suspended in air, with no interconnectedness between them, and obstacles made of arbitrarily placed colorful blocks. This again, feels like a stepback compared to previous 3D Marios.
Gamepad integration. Every major 3D Mario included new consoles features at least a small part of the gameplay. SM64 showcased analog stick, SMS analog triggers with flood, SMG was less important to the gameplay but we still could shake to add momentum to our jumps and use pointer to collect star bits. It was less than what previous Marios did, but at least it was still something and I liked shaking to extend jumps. With SM3DW Nintendo yet again fails to deliver a proof of concept that gamepad could benefit full-fledged games. We were 100% allowed to expect they will include something. Tapping screen to search for hidden blocks and the game simply being beamed to the console feels somewhat lazy. As it's a multiplayer game they could have even toyed with some sort of asymmetric gameplay that Nintendo touted so much, but nope, neither is there anything here.
While we're at multiplayer. Not everybody has someone to play a 3D Mario with and lack of inclusion of online limits that even further. For us is simply completely a non-news in a series that up to this point was purely about singleplayer (it's hard calling SMG and SMG2 second player option a "multiplayer" with a straight face). It's a neat addition, but it's not gonna pull us over to the other camp because it completely doesn't matter to us. It' s a non-news, that's all.
Now maybe something about the meat of the game, gameplay. Every new Mario game had shaken up the concept considerably. It was always about collecting 120 somethings, but the core gameplay was drastically different. SM64 was introduction to 3D. SMS obviously had FLUDD. SMG had gravitation and how toying with it can be used to benefit gameplay. So far, SM3DW has... catsuit? Oh sure, it is an interesting addition and it will make for a more interesting game, but it's not gonna change the structure of the entire game the previous games had. 4 slightly different characters instead of the usual 2 (look at how both of SMGs had 2 characters yet it never was made a big deal or became a major bullet point!) will be interesting, but the core gameplay is repeated. It is still a 3DL-style game, with floating levels, 3 coins/stars/whatevers hidden in each one, with similar control scheme and familiar physics. It doesn't mean it's bad. It's simply not fresh.
And a more personal one, I really disliked the way SM3DL controlled compared to other 3D Marios. It was the first time I had problems with controlling Mario in a 3D space and I felt they were somewhat clunky. However I'd consider it as my personal point, as most people liked SM3DL controls. Still, if I am to explain why I am disappointed, I feel like I should include it.
That's the most important points. Most important of all - I AM NOT SAYING THE GAME WILL BE BAD. This is VITAL because too many people assume it. I'm saying I expected something more fresh and instead got something that looks mostly iterative. BUT! Iterative is not a dirty word. I will buy this game. I will play this game. I have no doubt I will enjoy this game. Greatly even. It will be a fantastic game, somewhere around 8.5-9.5 game, more leaning towards the latter. I just wanted to be blown away with something so far out that I didn't expect it. This simply isn't it. Due to the points outlined above, I fear this game simply won't be as bold, stunning and memorable as previous 3D Mario games.
All.
I will try to explain this in a coherent way.
First of all, the setting. Pretty much every major (home console if your prefer that way) new Mario game introduced a new setting. In SMW we got a Dinosaur Island, in SM64 we got our first foray into 3D (so while it was Mushroom Kingdom, it looked drastically different to what we had gotten before), in SMS we had Delfino Isle and in SMG we went into space. This might not be major, but shaking up a formula certainly adds to games feeling fresh. In SM3DW we not only are taking a step back to a nearly 30-year-old now Mushroom Kingdom (in some incarnation of it most likely, it looks just like SM3DL so it probably is MK), but it's also a setting that had been revisited FIVE times in the last 7 years. That's a lot. This certainly adds to the feeling that the game doesn't feel as fresh as we wanted.
Second of all, still partially connected to level design, it's what had been thrown around several times here, that is the levels don't feel "organic". Ever since SMW the world in Mario game had felt somewhat real, especially in 3D Marios. In SM64 (except for Whomp's Fortress) all levels felt like a part of a bigger world. Yes, we teleported there through paintings and there were borders around it, but it felt like a part of a real world. The obstacles too were hills, bridges, crates, stairs - things like that, real things. The same in SMS, where even true platforming that wasn't there for the most part in SM64, was able to be put in the more real scenario with a clever inclusion of construction site. In SMG again, we got into space, but this planets did feel great and all the obstacles were real things and the smaller levels could be made by inclusion of smaller planets. In contrast, in SM3DW we get levels totally suspended in air, with no interconnectedness between them, and obstacles made of arbitrarily placed colorful blocks. This again, feels like a stepback compared to previous 3D Marios.
Gamepad integration. Every major 3D Mario included new consoles features at least a small part of the gameplay. SM64 showcased analog stick, SMS analog triggers with flood, SMG was less important to the gameplay but we still could shake to add momentum to our jumps and use pointer to collect star bits. It was less than what previous Marios did, but at least it was still something and I liked shaking to extend jumps. With SM3DW Nintendo yet again fails to deliver a proof of concept that gamepad could benefit full-fledged games. We were 100% allowed to expect they will include something. Tapping screen to search for hidden blocks and the game simply being beamed to the console feels somewhat lazy. As it's a multiplayer game they could have even toyed with some sort of asymmetric gameplay that Nintendo touted so much, but nope, neither is there anything here.
While we're at multiplayer. Not everybody has someone to play a 3D Mario with and lack of inclusion of online limits that even further. For us is simply completely a non-news in a series that up to this point was purely about singleplayer (it's hard calling SMG and SMG2 second player option a "multiplayer" with a straight face). It's a neat addition, but it's not gonna pull us over to the other camp because it completely doesn't matter to us. It' s a non-news, that's all.
Now maybe something about the meat of the game, gameplay. Every new Mario game had shaken up the concept considerably. It was always about collecting 120 somethings, but the core gameplay was drastically different. SM64 was introduction to 3D. SMS obviously had FLUDD. SMG had gravitation and how toying with it can be used to benefit gameplay. So far, SM3DW has... catsuit? Oh sure, it is an interesting addition and it will make for a more interesting game, but it's not gonna change the structure of the entire game the previous games had. 4 slightly different characters instead of the usual 2 (look at how both of SMGs had 2 characters yet it never was made a big deal or became a major bullet point!) will be interesting, but the core gameplay is repeated. It is still a 3DL-style game, with floating levels, 3 coins/stars/whatevers hidden in each one, with similar control scheme and familiar physics. It doesn't mean it's bad. It's simply not fresh.
And a more personal one, I really disliked the way SM3DL controlled compared to other 3D Marios. It was the first time I had problems with controlling Mario in a 3D space and I felt they were somewhat clunky. However I'd consider it as my personal point, as most people liked SM3DL controls. Still, if I am to explain why I am disappointed, I feel like I should include it.
That's the most important points. Most important of all - I AM NOT SAYING THE GAME WILL BE BAD. This is VITAL because too many people assume it. I'm saying I expected something more fresh and instead got something that looks mostly iterative. BUT! Iterative is not a dirty word. I will buy this game. I will play this game. I have no doubt I will enjoy this game. Greatly even. It will be a fantastic game, somewhere around 8.5-9.5 game, more leaning towards the latter. I just wanted to be blown away with something so far out that I didn't expect it. This simply isn't it. Due to the points outlined above, I fear this game simply won't be as bold, stunning and memorable as previous 3D Mario games.
All.
StreetsAhead
Member
Not even 1 level we've seen is entirely made up of coloured blocks, and most of the levels contain a variety of blocks, and more organic platforms and structures. You're over simplifying to support your argument and just coming off as desperate to anyone who's seen footage of more than 1 level of the game.
We've seen ghost houses which look much more interconnected than 3D Land's, the race/dinosaur ride actually takes place in a real location as opposed to Galaxy, which was just water suspended in mid-air. , and this could just as easily have been a level in Galaxy, minus the clear pipes. I'm not exactly sure why 'floating' or 'suspended' is even a criticism. It worked for Galaxy, even the non-planetoids levels. Maybe it's the space thing.
^ elaborately detailed (and polite!) post, well done. I think everyone disappointed by the reveal so far would probably feel the same, though not many can describe it clearly. SM3DW will be something that doesn't impress at the first time, but as people sit down and see more trailers and finally play it, many will agree that it's a cleverly designed and fun game--just like every Mario game. It just didn't have the awesome feeling of seeing Mario blasting of into space with a volcano erupting behind him.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The thing I don't get about the "Multiplayer doesn't affect me" argument is that it's also allowing multiple characters with different playstyles in single-player and that seems relatively significant to me.
But maybe I can't see why it's actually a bad thing for whatever reason.
But maybe I can't see why it's actually a bad thing for whatever reason.
I agree with you on the gamepad integration part. They have untapped potential there.
As for the others, you're really stepping out on a limb with your assumptions. I can't really tell what setting it has. Someone pointed out the similarities to the subcon fairies from SMB2 and the gameplay itself has an obvious comparison to it with the 4 different characters & matching abilities, that theory could have weight. Many people requested subcon to return as the setting in the next SMB. I don't think you'll win any arguments by saying SMB2 didn't have a "setting". Whether or not the level design is grounded, who knows. We've seen more levels taking place in grounded areas then not. I don't know what you expected to shake up the gameplay, either. It's a platformer. 4-player multiplayer, a wide variety of character physics, multiple new suits (including ones that we haven't seen yet?), are well and above my expectations for shaken up gameplay. I expected more graphical enhancements to help differentiate the game from previous titles. I was wrong, obviously, but they actually shook up the game more than I was expecting.
You forgot the most Galaxy-like stage: the boss battle.
The GamePad actually enhances the gameplay. The 9 axis gyros are in use to offer camera support, while keeping our thumbs on running and action buttons. This is a first in the series. The producer thinks it's an important enough feature to warrant a video about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=57l50e4CZVM#t=20s At 28 seconds you can see he puts the GamePad slightly up, and the camera elevates itself slightly as well, revealing the upper floor.
Being able to play with the camera, while keeping a total control of the game, looks like an awesome feature to me. It will enhance dynamism, exploration, while being visually pleasing.
We also know the touchscreen is used to discover secrets.
Last but not least, off TV is confirmed
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Sounds a little like SM64DS, which was a lot of fun.
Kacho
Member
I still think this feature is incredibly lame. Maybe they surprise me with clever secrets, but I'm not holding my breath.
Definitely. Unless proven wrong, I assume this is a feature made for kids.
D.Lo
Member
Same levels, slightly different controls. Luigi is in the galaxy games and plays differently, and it's not a significant addition, can't see why this would be for single player either.
Also, games designed around multiplayer end up feeling gimped in single player in 80% of cases. See: Zelda Four Swords Adventures, Resident Evil 5. And many of NSMB Wii's levels felt very empty in single player, as they were clearly designed around all the craziness of 4 players at once.
Multiplayer is a negative to me. If it was online maybe, but offline, it's not going to happen, and so I'll get compromised, overly-spacious levels for my single player games.
ShockingAlberto
Member
While I understand the desire for Mario to show what's useful about the gamepad, I also sympathize with EAD Tokyo having to constantly carry that burden for every system.
H_Prestige
Banned
Wait, I thought the lack of "overly spacious" levels is what everyone was bitching about this whole thread.
ShockingAlberto
Member
NSMBU did not feel empty or compromised in single player to me, nor did I feel like I required a Gamepad player to help me get the fullest out of the game, so it's difficult for me to understand what you mean about multiple characters hurting a game. Nor did I really feel the level design was being fucked sideways in the demo of 3D World I played because of multiple people playing.
So I guess I don't actually understand why it's a bad thing.
WrenchNinja
Member
I might have missed it but does the cat suit have some new attack options? Is it a claw attack that makes up for a punch from the older 3D Marios? I know that it adds climbing up walls and stuff.
There seems to be some diagonal-downwards attack.
fredrancour
Member
It seems like people want large landscapes for exploration/running/ just messing around with dense platforming areas within them. My first impression of the game is as constant low-density platforming areas. I obviously cannot say without playing the game, but I am very concerned that platforming will feel too slow to be very fun. I do plan on buying the game regardless and expect to own a wiiu within the next year but I'm worried.
D.Lo
Member
No, people want scale, not empty space.
I haven't played U, but it is definitely true in NSMBW. Many levels when played single player have too much space between things because they're designed for four player. And paths couldn't branch as much, because there was always a requirement for four players on the screen.
Now, I'm not knocking NSMBW either, the multiplayer was the freshest multiplayer experience in literally years. But it absolutely did hurt the single player.
It's like racing a car down a four lane highway - it might make for a great four car race, but for one car it's not anywhere near as interesting as a twisting one lane road.
It's all about design and balance, I believe you raise a point they definitely thought about. To counter this they:
- added a character that runs faster
- added a power up that makes characters run faster
- added a mid run boost
About NSMU, I'm playing it mostly alone and I have yet to feel anything that makes me feel it was made for 4 players. That's because it zooms in (and out when you play with 4 players). The game is really good.
Spieler Eins
Member
This is one of the most ridiculous ways of thinking I've seen in a quite a while, I must say :lol Congratulations to you, that you find yourself to able to be completely stoic when it comes to game announcements? Though, then I'm not sure what you're doing on a board for dedicated gamers. People expected a certain type of game to be announced, they didn't get it and are hence disappointed. But judging by some others posts, you might think that the same people are already saying the game is bad? I'm not sure, but it's funny that you call people ,,fucking stupid'' (and hence probably almost everyone on this board, considering everyone has had certain positive and negative feelings about games being announced, especially in a series), while you are unable to understand what even a 5 year old could comprehend. People thought they'd get something that they didn't. That generates disappointment. Is that really that hard to get for you? :lol No one is dismissing that 3D World will be good for what it is, the defense you try to pull off here makes absolutely no fucking sense.
Calamari41
41 > 38
To provide some evidence for my assertion that 3D Land and Galaxy are mechanically similar, please take a look at these videos. This is what I'm talking about when I say that 3D Land plays like a toned down Galaxy without the gravity mechanic. In fact, I would go so far as to say that most of these levels look more complex and more difficult than any of the non-gravity focused Galaxy levels. Just watch them.
World 8-1
World 8-2
World 8-3
World 8-Ghost House
World 8-5
World 8-6
World 8-Castle
The Ghost House is the weak link, but to be fair those were also weak in Galaxy. I could very, very easily see each of these levels existing somewhere in Galaxy. Yes, the best of Galaxy is better than these, but my point is about the base mechanics. Interestingly, 8-3 and 8-6 play with the gravity mechanic a little bit by having the level itself rotate rather than having you rotate around the levels.
Yup. And we're talking 8-1 of Land compared to 2-1 of World.
World 8-1
World 8-2
World 8-3
World 8-Ghost House
World 8-5
World 8-6
World 8-Castle
The Ghost House is the weak link, but to be fair those were also weak in Galaxy. I could very, very easily see each of these levels existing somewhere in Galaxy. Yes, the best of Galaxy is better than these, but my point is about the base mechanics. Interestingly, 8-3 and 8-6 play with the gravity mechanic a little bit by having the level itself rotate rather than having you rotate around the levels.
Yup. And we're talking 8-1 of Land compared to 2-1 of World.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
These tiny, restrictive, slower, random themed 3D Levels with the Tanooki suit blowing past all the elementary level platforming...
I agree in part. Galaxy felt a tad small at times when compared to 64 and Sunshine's open structure, but at the same time you were blasting through space, still giving it some sense of scale. I love 3D Land, but it lacks the feeling of actually being inside the Mario world, with its closed off, floating platforms kind of level design. It might sounds like a small gripe, but somehow it just feels simpler. I have no doubt the game will be great, but I feel this formula was uniquely suited to a handheld console and would have preferred a different approach for the home console game.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
The game looks like fun and EAD Tokyo has earned a lot of faith with their last three Mario games. That said, I still remember Super Mario Sunshine and this game doesn't look very interesting relative to the Mario Galaxy games.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Eh, the Tanooki suit is like the cape in Mario World. I don't understand the "slower" complaint though, can you point to some non-Yoshi Galaxy levels that are faster? They seem pretty similarly paced to me, especially the lava levels.
Also, "tiny and restrictive" is a bit of an exaggeration, but that comes with the territory of being a portable title designed to be played in short sessions. 2-1 of World has already been shown to be bigger in scale than any of the World 8 levels that I posted. Again, I posted them to demonstrate the gameplay mechanics. If your beef is that 3D Land was too easy and you're afraid World will be too, then that is something we will just have to wait and see on. I can understand that complaint. I posted to address the idea that 3D Land and Galaxy feature fundamentally and completely different gameplay mechanics aside from the gravity.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Watching these old SMG2 videos, I forgotten how much I really miss Mario's moveset in this game. The triple jump right into a Star, the backflip over lasers, that great controlled long jump, the spin attack that vibrates in your hand and feels far better than the standard "am I close enough to hit him or" SM64 melee combo.
It's one of the few games where I actually loved most of the motion controls, even though you could theoretically it could probably work with just buttons.Take the area transition feature. In Galaxy, you have that star you shake to load and it flies off. A little personal addition I always added myself was an extra forward shake when Mario launches. Now you don't HAVE to do this and I'm not sure how many people did that, but it feels really good to me. It's like loading an arrow, then letting it fly, controller rumbling in your hand when you do it. 3D Land you just...jump in a box and the game does it for you. Functionally the same, but doesn't feel as good to me.
It plays and animates so smoothly, at 60fps as well. It's not just the scope of the levels and the forgettable music in 3D Land that bugged me, but the actual traversal on a moment-to-moment basis getting neutered to fit into 3D Land's teeny tiny little scope of mechanics. It's like an uglier, slower, smaller, even easier, more forgettable and less athletic version of SMG. The straight to DVD sequel with a much smaller budget and ambition.
It's one of the few games where I actually loved most of the motion controls, even though you could theoretically it could probably work with just buttons.Take the area transition feature. In Galaxy, you have that star you shake to load and it flies off. A little personal addition I always added myself was an extra forward shake when Mario launches. Now you don't HAVE to do this and I'm not sure how many people did that, but it feels really good to me. It's like loading an arrow, then letting it fly, controller rumbling in your hand when you do it. 3D Land you just...jump in a box and the game does it for you. Functionally the same, but doesn't feel as good to me.
It plays and animates so smoothly, at 60fps as well. It's not just the scope of the levels and the forgettable music in 3D Land that bugged me, but the actual traversal on a moment-to-moment basis getting neutered to fit into 3D Land's teeny tiny little scope of mechanics. It's like an uglier, slower, smaller, even easier, more forgettable and less athletic version of SMG. The straight to DVD sequel with a much smaller budget and ambition.
No, the cape is super broken. The tanooki suit is like the tanooki suit in Mario 3, just without having to tap jump.
Calamari41
41 > 38
I see and understand this, and agree (though I don't think it's quite as extreme as you do). My argument is that the "straight to DVD"-ness of it is a function of the fact that it is a handheld game, and the full console sequel will see a massive expansion. We will see though! A good way to think about it is if you imagine them combining a couple of a few of the 3D Land levels together to create one big level. That is what I am expecting to see.
Yeah that's what I was trying to say. Not like flying through the levels, but slowing down your descent to make platforming easier.
Exterminieren
Banned
This, from top to bottom.
I absolutely fail to see how people can say Mario controls the same between Galaxy and 3D Land. He's so, so less satisfying and flexible to control, and it pretty much seems to have transferred over to 3D World.
We know that 3D World is keeping the run button, the 8-way movement and the 3D Land feel. The levels can be as long as they want, but they aren't going to be as fun for me as they would be with Galaxy's control scheme.
I agree, I'll miss those athletic moves. Not sure why they removed the triple jump. The crouch jump that 3D Land has is not as satisfying as the backflip jump. My favourite thing to do in the Galaxy games was to triple jump and then spin-stomp to the star. Since the spin-stomp seems to have this auto-target like function, it would actually target the star. It was really satisfying to pull off.
If they can implement all of those things with 3D Land's controls, I would be a happy camper.
If they can implement all of those things with 3D Land's controls, I would be a happy camper.
Calamari41
41 > 38
That's fine, even though it's 16-way movement, but it's not like they're giving us Monster Hunter controls all of a sudden. I like the controls personally, but I can see the preference for Galaxy's controls. To me it doesn't seem like a game-breaking issue, but to you it may be.
I personally can't see any problem with having a run button. I don't see what that hurts at all. Can you explain?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The spin-stomp was great, too. If a star was below me, I could crouch, backflip in the air a couple times, spin-stomp on top of it. I like getting a bit creative in grabbing the star, if I could. That's really the mark of a great platformer: when simply the act of moving and jumping feels good. That's 70% of the job done right there.
I do see that 3D World has brought back his turn-around backflip, so there's a step in the right direction.
I do see that 3D World has brought back his turn-around backflip, so there's a step in the right direction.
Calamari41
41 > 38
3D Land had both the turn-around backflip and the spin stomp (that's the butt-pound, right?) It also had the backflip from crouching, but you had to charge it first because the game allowed you to crouch-jump as well.
Exterminieren
Banned
It takes all the subtlety and analogue control out of the movement. The whole point of an analogue stick is there are many degrees of control you can have, and ripping all of that out and replacing it with a single digital button is, I find, reductive and unnecessary. I have the run button held down all the time in 3D Land anyway, so why not just get rid of it?
For goodness sakes, 3D World is designed so multiplayer is played with D-Pads. I can't think of a better way to highlight how much the controls have been overly-simplified than that; the series that codified the use of an analogue stick returning to what 64 DS proved long ago was a far, far inferior way of getting around a level.
Nope. It's the trick where you did a spin at the apex of a jump and immediately did a butt-stomp, giving you a more powerful homing butt-stomp.
The backflip wasn't remotely as useful in 3D Land as it had been previously. This is all part of Mario's moveset being ridiculously simplified and made far less satisfying.
Do you mean that jump where you run one way and then you jump towards the other way? If so, that was already in 3D Land.
Well the spin stomp won't be back for 3D World or anything unless they implement the spin mechanic again. It was a special kind of ground pound that would require you to press the Z button when doing the spin attack.
The crouching jump doesn't have much horizontal distance like the backflip jump.
You have more control over how fast you run immediately which is useful in platformers. Mario runs faster in 3D Land than with the Galaxy games. The speed of Mario was really weird going from Sunshine to Galaxy. He would start off so slowly for some reason.