ZombieSupaStar
Member
I fucking hated it, liked the galaxy games and bought it blind, never fucking again.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Super Mario 3D World perfected Mario in 3D
- Thread starter watershed
- Start date
Love SM3DW. Just gimme some more camera control.
I think the overall audio/visual presentation was a step back from Galaxy (which has easily the best presentation in Mario imo), but the replay value is much better as well as the postgame content. Especially compared to Galaxy 1.
That's not to say I think 3D World looks/sounds bad at all, as there are a lot of great moments in there, but Galaxy really took it to another level.
I think the overall audio/visual presentation was a step back from Galaxy (which has easily the best presentation in Mario imo), but the replay value is much better as well as the postgame content. Especially compared to Galaxy 1.
That's not to say I think 3D World looks/sounds bad at all, as there are a lot of great moments in there, but Galaxy really took it to another level.
I agree with the general point that 3D world is made more accessible but... Seriously, you're talking about removing NPCs as a loss for 3D Marios? Mario 64 isn't exactly known for it's characterisation
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Sometimes being wide doesn't really hurt the level or the platforming obstacles therein. I remember stages like Beep Block Galaxy or the Cookie Cutter levels that were just fine despite clearly having been designed for multiple players. It's just that any level that takes place on the ground or an open field just feels too big, too wide, too much empty space.
For as many levels as it had I barely remembered any of it since it was so unmemorable. When I play a 3d mario I expect to be talking about its quality and design for years with such praise simply being pulled from my memory, with 3d world this is not the case.
BasilZero
Member
First post gets it.
A lot of people might disagree with me but I feel Sunshine perfected 3D mario during its time - it was a huge improvement imo over 64 and was mind blowing.
But Galaxy is where it took it to the next level.
SM3DW was great but I felt the camera could have been better :/
Neff
Member
I'd still rate Mario 64 ahead of it, simply because I don't think that level design or that degree of free-form, precision dexterity has been topped by any game, let alone Mario.
Otherwise, I agree. It's the closest Nintendo have come to beating Mario 64.
Galaxy was a phenomenal effort in terms of design and production values, but it's slightly ruined by a slow, floaty Mario and uneven pacing.
Otherwise, I agree. It's the closest Nintendo have come to beating Mario 64.
Galaxy was a phenomenal effort in terms of design and production values, but it's slightly ruined by a slow, floaty Mario and uneven pacing.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
I played through the entirety of this game with my five year old son and had an absolute blast. I do prefer the galaxy games but the mp aspect of this really was nice for a kid picking up a comtroller for the first time. Now he is all about smash brothers.,..
Glass Rebel
Member
Every time someone writes that 3D World is a 2D 3D Mario game, Super Mario 64-2 gets pushed back for another month.
timetokill
Banned
The Mario 64 nostalgia is weird. Especially because so many fans of it say that games like 3D World are "too easy." 3D World is far tougher than anything in Mario 64. Champions Road is more difficult than anything in 64, Sunshine, or Galaxy, and in the right way -- based on the difficulty of the platforming, not fighting camera angles (in 64 or Sunshine) or ... well, Galaxy is imaginative and fun but it's a pretty easy game in general.
3D World's level designs are far more complex than 64 and Sunshine. The design mechanics are tighter. While I love the feeling of movement in Mario 64, the levels are uneven. You fight the camera as much as anything else in the game. It was a landmark title that will be forever remembered but you can't make everything 2D again so we can get that feeling of 3D revelation.
3D World's level designs are far more complex than 64 and Sunshine. The design mechanics are tighter. While I love the feeling of movement in Mario 64, the levels are uneven. You fight the camera as much as anything else in the game. It was a landmark title that will be forever remembered but you can't make everything 2D again so we can get that feeling of 3D revelation.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I don't think that Super Mario 64's design was ever about letting players 'immerse themselves into the Mushroom Kingdom', it's still very much a gameplay focused game that's more about enabling a player to have freedom of movement to tackle platforming challenges at will.
3D World is all about accessibility, though. Not just for younger players and casuals, though - for anyone who's familiar with 2D Mario mechanics but who hasn't enjoyed 3D Mario games of the past - which is a whole lot of people.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I'm tired of the "is it a true 3D Mario?"
So I'll just say that I hope they don't go back to those boring open levels from 64/sunshine. Just give me what I can for. Platforming.
So I'll just say that I hope they don't go back to those boring open levels from 64/sunshine. Just give me what I can for. Platforming.
VendettaRed07
Member
It's not that is isn't a "real" 3D game. But it does not take full advantage of what you can do with a Mario game in 3 dimensions.
8 direction controls as opposed to full 360 degrees, limited move set, unable to build momentum and combo jumps. The perspective and inability to control the camera makes it difficult to judge distances or gaps. You shouldn't have to use a run button in a 3D game either.
It's a great game, but Mario has been better and more sophisticated in 3D before
Huge Succeeded
Banned
#1 - How is it a trend, much less a bad one?
#2 - Multiplayer doesn't dilute the quality of the single player game because 3D World was never designed as a single player game to begin with. It was always multiplayer-centric but it still functions perfectly well as a single player game.
reptilescorpio
Member
Spot on. My son and I weren't big on it after Galaxy.
And the quality of the production was top-notch all around. The music in particular is amazing despite some thinking wrongly that it's just NSMB style music.
Listen to this for example which a variation on the main theme:https://youtu.be/jV1C1JH4ecc
Listen to this for example which a variation on the main theme:https://youtu.be/jV1C1JH4ecc
PeterBazooka
Member
Sprint and grab on the same button has been there since the NES games. You must be new to videogames.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Controls don't exist in a vaccuum. 3D World's controls take adequate advantage of movement in 3 dimensions considering how the rest of the game is designed around them.
Mario has had more sophisticated 3D before but that sophistication doesn't necessarily mean that it's better (although I'd tend to agree with you anyway on that front, I'm just saying, complexity isn't always better when you've got levels and mechanics that are well-designed around a relative lack of complexity like 3D Land and World largely do)
As someone who didnt grow up with 2d Mario games ( before I played 3d world, the only Marios I played were 3d ones like galaxy, sunshine and of course him in smash/kart)
the controls in 3d world felt alien to me.
I felt that movement /jumps in this game were so backwards in design, it threw me off so many times in the first few hours. It resulted in a lot of silly deaths cause I'm so not used to how 2d Mario played. Also cause this game had a lot of perception problems for me. The 2d/isometric perception made my jumps super off. It made this game harder to play. But I did enjoy it, took some time but I got used to the controls etc of how 2d Mario plays.
Didn't make me and good though lol as I tried to play smb1/3 recently and could not get past world 1 of those games .
Hope we see them return to galaxy ish 3d movement for the next one
the controls in 3d world felt alien to me.
I felt that movement /jumps in this game were so backwards in design, it threw me off so many times in the first few hours. It resulted in a lot of silly deaths cause I'm so not used to how 2d Mario played. Also cause this game had a lot of perception problems for me. The 2d/isometric perception made my jumps super off. It made this game harder to play. But I did enjoy it, took some time but I got used to the controls etc of how 2d Mario plays.
Didn't make me and good though lol as I tried to play smb1/3 recently and could not get past world 1 of those games .
Hope we see them return to galaxy ish 3d movement for the next one
Mithos
Member
Yeah, and the reason for me not being a fan of it.
timetokill
Banned
Is this a review from 1985?
It tries to blend 2D and 3D Mario but fails to exceed either style and ends up dumbing things down. The camera placement takes away the precision feel of the 2D games while the dumbing down of controls removes the finesse the 3D games had. 3D world is the worst mario has ever felt to control, he's sluggish, heavy and stiff. The game isn't bad and looks nice but it isn't one of the better marios imo.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
That's exactly why the 3D Land/World formula was created. It was stated clearly in an Iwata's Ask for Super Mario 3D Land, because the sales difference between the two subsets of the franchise lead Nintendo to want to bridge the gap and acclimate players to their 3D Mario stylings. The most logical route to that end would be to introduce a game with 3D movement, 3D platforming challenges, and 3D level designs, with familiar 2D design elements like powerup mechanics, holding to run, and linear levels ending with flagpoles helping to make for a more familiar and accessible experience.
I don't believe nor have I ever believed that this formula is meant to be a replacement to either the 2D or adventure styled 3D Mario formulas. More like a supplement meant to bolster the potential audience of the latter for the future.
Galaxy Mario feels more sluggish to me *shrug* but it's not like Galaxy's levels tend to be wide open either
1. Dead Space, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Mario 2d world, Assasins Creed, Uncharted, Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, Multiplayer Zelda Games, God of War, etc.. Its bad because it means less resources are being spent on the single player aspect of the game or the game is simply a waste of develop resources if its focused around a game that's design isnt best for multiplayer as those resources when said resources could be spent on a single player focused game in which the franchise is design well for.
2. 3d world was designed with multiplayer in mind for an experience that Id argue isnt at its best when focused on multiplayer. Aka Single Player driven mario titles are better than Multiplayer driven mario titles due to the genre just naturally being built for single player.
timetokill
Banned
Jesus.
Are you sure you didn't play some Chinese knock-off or something?
I feel like I'm reading posts from bizarro-world right now.
johnnydrama
Banned
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Not when it's designed around multiplayer on a system where multiplayer is uniquely viable because everyone and their mother owns like six compatible legacy controllers (most of which happen to use a d-pad for movement)
If anything I'd direct my derision less toward the run button and more toward the delayed sprint. An instant run would have been better IMO or would have at least enabled tighter platforming challenges.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Ya it did a good job of making a 3D Mario game using the 2D games as a template, but that's not what I want in a 3D Mario game.
Chiramii
Member
Now this I can agree with. I'd rather see Nintendo return to the 64/Sunshine/Galaxy design with the next 3D Mario.
Milly Osworth
Member
It was a very foregettable Mario game 😐
Mario 64 felt like a game where they were exploring the possibilities of 3D and building a game that specifically catered to what the new tech had to offer. Mario 3D World feels like a game where they decided to go back and convert Mario's classic gameplay to 3D long after the medium had been perfected.
Greatest Ever
Member
Let me add that those games don't have co-op where potentially grabbing someone next to you by accident can ruin a lot of runs.
The Galaxy games did sprint the best - there was no dedicated sprint button. Going back to these mechanics was not a good idea, seeing as walking in these games (3D Land and World) is of very little use anyway. Might as well have tied it to how much you push the stick.
Top posts though lads.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Bolded doesn't apply when the game is being designed as a multiplayer game first and foremost, but I see where you're coming from with the trend thing. I just don't think it applies to Nintendo of all developers. Enabling local multiplayer isn't a trend for them, it's been a focus of theirs for over a decade now.
And I don't see why 3D World isn't at its best being played in multiplayer. A lot of you suggest that but the only reason I ever see for it is 'sometimes you grab people and throw them!'... like that's anywhere near the problem it was in NSMB Wii where you were all moving on a single plane.
Multiplayer in 3D World blows open your available repertoire of platforming abilities and strategies, and there's a lot of fun to be had in helping out less skilled players by chucking 'em and jumping 'em up.
I hope you're wrong. I want to explore again, wonder what direction I should go, wonder what that is over there etc.
These "3D" Marios are good, but they're not as good as the older 2D titles like 3 or SMW, nor as good as the 3D entries like 64, Sunshine and Galaxy.
Funny enough I really like Sprawling Savanna, which has some NSMB in it but it's great imo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bafv2jZ300
timetokill
Banned
Okay so do people that use the Wii controller to play just not get to sprint, or what?
CaviarMeths
Member
Because it not being a "proper" 3D Mario is an absurd assertion to begin with. And it's an immaculately designed game. Sorry you haven't really played it much.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Neither does 3D World. You can pop into a bubble at any time and you're way less likely to grab and throw someone than you were in New Super Mario Bros. thanks to the wideness of the 3D levels. You can run around your friends in 3D World as opposed to just jumping over them and hoping they don't grab you or launch you into the stratosphere in NSMB Wii/U.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
There's a huge difference between
conceding that 3D World is mechanically different than past 3D Mario games
and
insinuating that 3D World isn't a 'real' or 'true' or 'insert meaningless descriptor here, like proper for example' 3D game because it doesn't play the way you might like, despite the fact that mechanically, it's a 3D video game
Super Mario 3D World is a proper 3D Mario. It's just a proper 3D Mario of a different kind. It's not 'improper' just because it's not the same formula as the last few. It's a third kind of Mario game that also happens to be 3D.
This.
The game is great, but too simple. It's not that challenging as Mario 64, Sunshine or Galaxy games. It is challenging once you get into the Star World.
It's a great game, but 64 and Galaxy 1/2 are far better 3D Mario games.
Added this to my original post to clarify "or the game is simply a waste of develop resources if its focused around a game that's design isnt best for multiplayer as those resources when said resources could be spent on a single player focused game in which the franchise is design well for."
Aka they could spent their time better making a game that franchise is built for, most fans of said series Id argue would want to experience those the most.
timetokill
Banned
Go back and play 64 sometime. The people talking about "big platforms" and "too easy" especially need to go back and try that. 64 is insanely easy to beat, and any difficulty comes almost entirely from the camera.
Greatest Ever
Member
I don't agree with his examples as those games adding separate multiplayer modes just leaves us with conjecture on how their single players were affected.
I'll add though, along with the ludicrous ability to throw others off, the camera system doesn't feel fit to accompany multiple players' pace (which also affects games like Rayman, LBP, etc), there are platforms that are awful to platform on with multiple players (the red and blue switches), and any player that does have a higher skill level than another player playing has absolutely no way of expressing that without being held back or moving too far ahead of the other player.
I don't think local co-op is bad, lord knows I'd love it in more games, I think it really neuters this game though.
I don't get this post, explain.
No, because you couldn't grab in SMB
Also, this. Can't believe I missed that.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I don't agree with this assertion at all. Mario isn't necessarily suited ONLY to single player games just because you say it so. And even if Mario were 100% better geared toward single player (an assertion that I think all of the multiplayer 2D Mario games call into question considering their top-tier level design), that doesn't necessarily mean that development resources are wasted on multiplayer, especially when multiplayer can be such a strong selling point for Ninty games.
A Link to the Past
Banned
This simply isn't what Mario is about at its core.
But then again, I can't blame people for hankering for it when the Zelda and Metroid franchises haven't delivered that exploration-driven gameplay in a while.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Mario 64 perfected Mario in 3D, for me.