fwiw you can sort levels by difficulty and also I'm sure plenty of people will make levels with a more manageable difficulty
like me!
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Super Mario Maker level design layouts and ideas
- Thread starter UncleSporky
- Start date
fwiw you can sort levels by difficulty and also I'm sure plenty of people will make levels with a more manageable difficulty
like me!
UncleSporky
Member
And I think it even tries to calculate this automatically to an extent, by number of average player deaths etc. but also by player ratings.
The game seems to be pretty good at sorting by difficulty too. NateDrake's 100 Mario expert runs have been incredibly difficult, but I've also seen non-expert footage that seemed really reasonable. Many levels even looked too easy.
And I also think so far a lot of this thread has been pretty good ideas that don't necessarily have to be bullshit. My examples in the OP are shorthand, they don't include all the clues you might want to give players to lead them through the level.
To add to the conversation of fixes, two things I've noticed:
One way pipes. Sometimes you won't want the player to return the way they came. You can get around this by placing a pipe on the ceiling or using one way walls, but that can be inelegant.
SMB Goombas need to be blue and grey in the underground and castle theme respectively!
One way pipes. Sometimes you won't want the player to return the way they came. You can get around this by placing a pipe on the ceiling or using one way walls, but that can be inelegant.
SMB Goombas need to be blue and grey in the underground and castle theme respectively!
ShockingAlberto
Member
UncleSporky
Member
This just gave me another idea.
Something chases you throughout a swimming level, hot on your tail, like a giant bullet bill or boo. You escape through a pipe, and need to go back through it again. Since you're returning at the far end of the level, the chaser enemy isn't spawned, and you can take a different path that you didn't have time to take while you were being chased (because it was doubling back etc.).
ErrorMacro
Member
That would require the shells to be moving forward or the breakable blocks with the P-Switches to be hit from below, though. If you throw shells upwards, they don't start moving as soon as they hit the ground.
But I just thought of a circumvention based on your idea. A bob-omb that breaks the block that drops the P-Switch could be used instead. This way, even if you throw the shell upwards, it will activate the bob-omb when it falls, which in turn breaks the block that holds the P-Switch.
I think the one way wall is elegant enough
NeonZ
Member
I think you'll still see many fairly basic levels and also (tweaked) remakes of previous Mario games.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Ah. I missed that detail. I thought he wanted the thwomps to kill you unless you hit the invisible blocks. That would be much harder lol.
Heads up, Nintendo UK is streaming some Mario Maker levels right now.
http://www.twitch.tv/nintendouk
... I'm going to have to try the ceiling is falling level when the game comes out.
http://www.twitch.tv/nintendouk
... I'm going to have to try the ceiling is falling level when the game comes out.
Fucking hell, this thread is making me want SMM real bad. Which would mean having to get a Wii U too.
Succumb to the temptation. The Wii U is fantastic.
That gave me an evil idea. You're chased by giant angry flying Wigglers in a level, and you rush through a pipe to escape. As you exit in the sublevel, the pipe you came from starts spawning giant angry flying Wigglers. They followed you. Run faster.
I wonder, can the goal be placed in the sublevel instead of in the main level?
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Holy shit Nintendo fucked up level searching. I mean....damn. It's confirmed. You cant search for levels by name. Wow. Just.....wow. Nor is there any kind of search by genre or tags. It's basically just search by rating and difficulty, and a friend code like thing for specific levels if you've been given the code. They're not making the ability to find the kind of level you want to play easy. God damnit Nintendo.
demosthenes
Member
What? This makes me really sad.
Vampirolol
Member
My goal is to make fair levels, invisible blocks will only help the player.
This is my goal too. I want to make levels that feel like they could pass for authentic Nintendo levels. Kaizo world shit is neat but not my jam.
Another mockup I just made using RagnarokX's template. I like the idea of themed levels, drawing things with the blocks.
EDIT: An idea to go along with this...Mario does something in an earlier part of the level that causes the "rockslide" effect to trigger, as if he was the one to cause the pit to form!
Oh, yeah, I made the template in full size and shrunk it 50%. If anyone wants to use sprites make sure you scale them down 50%. Actually...
Here's the full resolution template:
Ground and Airship
Underground, Ghost House, and Castle:
Underwater:
Now you don't have to shrink sprites. They're the same resolution as SMB, SMB3, and SMW, so just go to a sprite website like Spriter's Resource and copy and past the sprites you want into the template.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Considering I've been put off by all the terrible levels in the 100 Mario Challenge footage, this is very painful to hear. I just want to make and play good levels. Is that so hard, nintendo?
Probably because searching for a Japanese level is impossible for non Japanese players due to the lack of Japanese input on their GamePad keyboards.
Can't comment on lack of tags.
UncleSporky
Member
On this note...how much do you guys think you'll be trying to stick to Nintendo's general "rules" of physical design?
The main example I would use is SMB1. For whatever reason in that game, ground tiles were never used for anything but ground, the bottom two tiles of each map:
But since we're being given free reign to use them anywhere, a lot of people are using them all over. I should emphasize that this is totally fine, the level functions the same way, it's just different from the way Nintendo used them. It's still something that I notice because I'm not used to seeing that type of tile used that way.
I noticed it in Jeremy Parish's excellent Daily Mario posts at usgamer:
Mario 3 is similar in this respect, they seem to have tried to use ground as ground only, and use other types of blocks for floating platforms etc.
There are lots of other design elements in Nintendo's games that you can practically identify by feel, all sorts of little things. For example, much of the time there is a good amount of head clearance between floor and ceiling of passages/floating platforms. You can tell a romhack or user level by how many extremely tight passages there are.
So I ask, how much do you intend to do things "the Nintendo way?" I know a big point of this tool is that we don't have to do things that way, but I think it's a big part of the feel of their levels, and could be a difficult thing to capture.
evilromero
Member
Another mockup I just made using RagnarokX's template. I like the idea of themed levels, drawing things with the blocks.
EDIT: An idea to go along with this...Mario does something in an earlier part of the level that causes the "rockslide" effect to trigger, as if he was the one to cause the pit to form!
This is a great idea and something I never thought of. In fact now I'm more excited to see how players can come up with modern or urban environments in creative ways though I'm crossing my fingers Nintendo might spring some DLC with city themes.
40? When and what link? If you can let me know of the deal hopefully I can get it, too. Thanks
I don't think I'll lock myself to not use the ground just as ground, partially because it works differently in 3, World, and U, and partially because I like that ground with blocks staircase there.
I mean, things will have to sort of make sense. I could see making a ? block on the edge of a pit with a Koopa nearby. That communicates that you'll get something nice for kicking the Koopa. I could also see using ground blocks to make hills, kind of using them as "You don't have to worry about these" blocks. I don't want to make maps that are too evil, it'd be nice to aim for Nintendo quality maps, but those are so much harder than they look to make.
I mean, things will have to sort of make sense. I could see making a ? block on the edge of a pit with a Koopa nearby. That communicates that you'll get something nice for kicking the Koopa. I could also see using ground blocks to make hills, kind of using them as "You don't have to worry about these" blocks. I don't want to make maps that are too evil, it'd be nice to aim for Nintendo quality maps, but those are so much harder than they look to make.
CrazyHorse
Junior Member
I really don't like the level preview in this game, otherwise looks like GOAT contender.
CrazyHorse
Junior Member
Metroid style level https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGZ-mD53X1w
Mihos
Gold Member
Playing level after level with no end of 'beating' the game is a huge, mega turnoff to me. But like LBP, I like unlocking stuff and will play through the included stuff.
Now if the included levels suck, and the unlocking is boring... then you are absolutely right. I won't buy the game.
Simbabbad
Member
I don't get it. We know you can sort levels by difficulty, rating and author. Therefore, you can for example sort medium difficulty levels by their rating, and therefore can play daily the best balanced levels of the moment, and can also subscribe to authors you like. Isn't that enough? How is searching by name going to be more useful than this?
Chezzymann
Member
Considering its $60, I'm probably gonna pass. Too much for me. I think it's more of a $40 title. Might try to get someone to give it to me for Christmas or something.
Simbabbad
Member
You can follow the author. There is also a history of the levels you played and rated, apparently. There is also a code id.
$60 is about the same price as the game + Amiibo edition here in Europe, wow.
This is genius. Absolutely outstanding. The use of every single power up to enable progression if perfect. Wow. This is very clever without being Kaizo.
I'm not sure why you cannot remove the time limit, or have 999. You can pause the game and restart or quit at any time, so it's not like you have to have a timeout for suicide purpose.
A time limit option adds to the game, giving a sense of rush in some levels. In other levels, it only holds back the game, as seen here. It should be optional.
evilromero
Member
That's one of the cooler levels I've seen. I love the exploratory nature and how there are arbitrary paths that just lead to a dead end yet you can still see past them (the narrow gap above the plants). It's so surreal seeing these kinds of stages in a Mario game.
evilromero
Member
If there was a level like this Metroid one in the real Mario 3 it would've blown my nine year-old mind away.
TheMoon
Member
Internet -> GAF -> GAF?
(was posted earlier in this thread already by a friend of the creator)
chekhonte said:
The hardest thing to build is a level that both beginners and experts can enjoy. It's easy to be complicated and frustrating. It's hard to be simple and elegant. I think some of the recent 2D Mario games really excel at this even though that craftsmanship doesn't get much attention in reviews/forums. Maybe once people start creating maps they will begin to appreciate the work that goes into making a level like that?
On this note...how much do you guys think you'll be trying to stick to Nintendo's general "rules" of physical design?
The main example I would use is SMB1. For whatever reason in that game, ground tiles were never used for anything but ground, the bottom two tiles of each map:
But since we're being given free reign to use them anywhere, a lot of people are using them all over. I should emphasize that this is totally fine, the level functions the same way, it's just different from the way Nintendo used them. It's still something that I notice because I'm not used to seeing that type of tile used that way.
I noticed it in Jeremy Parish's excellent Daily Mario posts at usgamer:
Mario 3 is similar in this respect, they seem to have tried to use ground as ground only, and use other types of blocks for floating platforms etc.
There are lots of other design elements in Nintendo's games that you can practically identify by feel, all sorts of little things. For example, much of the time there is a good amount of head clearance between floor and ceiling of passages/floating platforms. You can tell a romhack or user level by how many extremely tight passages there are.
So I ask, how much do you intend to do things "the Nintendo way?" I know a big point of this tool is that we don't have to do things that way, but I think it's a big part of the feel of their levels, and could be a difficult thing to capture.
I'm absolutely going to try to adhere to traditional Nintendo rules as much as humanly possible.
Ugh, this game is still 3 weeks away. This wait is going to be hell especially with so many review copies lurking.
TheMoon
Member
in a post-Mario Maker world, I bet a lot of people will be able to appreciate the level design in a platformers a lot more.
UncleSporky
Member
The level preview doesn't look like it shows the secondary map of each level, the "back" path, that you can use for when the player goes through doors or pipes.
So all you do is make a short, simple "front" level, force the player to go through a door, and hide all your tricky cool stuff on the other side.
However, then you have to think of the people who won't play your level because the preview doesn't look interesting enough!
Haha! And all the other pipes could lead to pits.
ToastyFrog
Inexplicable Treasure Hate
Yeah, this is something I kind of realized midway through making my second level. Since then I've tried to be more scrupulous about the tiles I use. There's a visual vocabulary at work in the Mario games, a subtle consistency that helps ground the design, and something absent in lesser platformers. I'm really trying to master those guidelines first before I start bending the rules.
I studied graphic design right as computer design was entering the mainstream, but our professor made us take a semester of old-school design tools pen-and-ink, protractors, T-squares, etc. before we could touch a computer. "You have to learn the basics so you can understand what you're doing with the advanced tools," he said. It was frustrating, but he was right.
this is amazing
I wasn't really interested in getting Mario Maker but hooooly shit that's cool.
Smashman45
Member
That was really well done. Definitely giving this a shot.
Can only hope to make a level like this. XD
wanderingprostheyltite
Member
Yeah that level alone just got me way more hyped. I'm a scrub player so I'd be terrible at it most likely, but still, that exploration and layout. THIS GAME.
UncleSporky
Member
Yeah, "visual vocabulary" is a great way to put it, that's what I was trying to get at. I'm glad you noticed it too.
Anyone can make Nintendo-like level designs, with teaching moments and difficulty peaks and troughs, but to really feel like a Nintendo level you have to nail the details as well.
I wonder if there are secret Mario design bibles out there that spell out a lot of these rules. "No more than 4 enemy types per level," that sort of thing.
perfectchaos007
Member
I'm going to mostly try to make levels that Nintendo would have made when their respective games came out. So the levels will be challenging, but fair. NO surprise invisible blocks that kill you from me
Shang
Member
Well, to be fair, stuff like that is in SMB3. Not often, but you know
The game looks super good. I am extremely hyped to make and play these levels