Support NeoGAF

[wonderful103]

Enjoying hassle free gaming from couch?

I am, yes.

Games as a service is the future. The data supports it and we can choose to ignore it but it doesn't make it any less true.

A lot of developers are going to lose their jobs when stuff like COD stops being yearly and moves toward a single service dlc model. But consoles haven't caught up yet. They're already moving away from generations to a platform as a service model, though, so at least the foundations are in place.

 

[Aztechnology]

Okay, that would also make sense. I've put a note in the OP. They're presumably the digital sales for each, since the first two platforms are effectively all digital.

Sales on Console are what like 50/50 now?

Enjoying hassle free gaming from couch?

This is a meme now right? Like a joke correct?

Edit: It totally is.

 

[Interfectum]

I wonder if you guys actually saw the post he replied to ?

Doesnt that come off as rude ?

Doesn't matter. Lots of PCMR rah rah shit in here right now and they think it's justified because someone 10 years ago said PC gaming was dead. Thanks to Asia and F2P for saving it!

 

[Jack The Nipper]

From what I see in china they only pay the shop owners to play. Then they play LOL and games like crossfire quite a bit. Technically gaming in asia is probably a lot higher if you count the money and time spent that you can't actually get tracked.

 

[spwolf]

It is way to low.
For instance germany had in 2015 ~ 798 revenue in mio € console game sales (incl. digital).
PC ~ 348 mio €

Accoding to BIU/GFK. That's without DLC and virtual goods, which includes PC and perhaps other categories but was at 562 m €

https://www.biu-online.de/marktdaten/deutscher-markt-fuer-digitale-spiele-2015/

For UK whe had this ukie report:
http://ukie.org.uk/press-release/2016/02/uk-games-market-soars-past-£41bn
Digital Console and PC 1224m GBP. And console should be the major factor in here.
Mobile gaming was at 664m GBP.
And this is € and GBP - while superdata lists $.

Us video game software (retail only) was at 5,17 B$
http://cdn.gamer-network.net/2015/articles/1/8/0/5/4/4/3/npd-145281397944.png/EG11/resize/714x-1

US alone could be above 6,6B$ with dlc and digital sales. And there are also the subscriptions for online services from MS and Sony.

Console gaming seems way to low even if they don't include december. Doesn't compute at all.

as mentioned in first few posts, Sony does report PSN sales and it seems like they will go well over 6 billion this year alone. Just on PSN.

 

[bj00rn_]

Enjoying hassle free gaming from couch?

What year is this.. That argument was retired about a decade or so ago.

..and we all have gaming chairs now anyway.


Edit: Or perhaps I just missed the sarcasm..

 

[spwolf]

A lot of developers are going to lose their jobs when stuff like COD stops being yearly and moves toward a single service dlc model. But consoles haven't caught up yet. They're already moving away from generations to a platform as a service model, though, so at least the foundations are in place.

how is that? They are moving to service model because it makes them more money... and as such, when they have more money, they will hire more developers.

Rise in mobile and f2p gaming is growing gaming overall and there are more developer jobs now, worldwide... same is true for general software industry.

 

[LastOne2100]

This whole info-graphic is extremely misleading. It says "Interactive Media" (gaming) made 91 billion dollars total, and console was only $6.6 billion, but the $6.6 billion was only console direct downloads? But the info-graphic categories that omit console physical still add up to their total number of $91 million.

I assume perhaps they mean gaming made 91 billion via downloads, not total? But they counted e-sports so ????

 

[Tecnniqe]

Doesn't matter. Lots of PCMR rah rah shit in here right now and they think it's justified because someone 10 years ago said PC gaming was dead. Thanks to Asia and F2P for saving it!

What is PCMR and what is not? Because no matter what you say about the platform some dude comes along and yells PCMR.

 

[13ruce]

Those PC master race comments are always hilarious. Honestly everyone is a gamer that likes to play games even mobile counts. It's great to see that all platforms are doing well but it's always dumb to see people acting like they are superior for having a PC, Console or whatever.

The growth in f2p is more concerning to me then who gets the most revenue or who is better.

 

[LordRaptor]

The problem with whale hunting is eventually the whales go extinct.

AAA console gaming is whale hunting by focussing with laser like precision on one highly specific demographic with extremely rarefied and highly specific tastes.
They're just better at it, because they can charge between $60-$200 upfront before you even get to play the game and get hit with the MTX store.

 

[Interfectum]

What is PCMR and what is not? Because no matter what you say about the platform some dude comes along and yells PCMR.

Your response to manzo comes of as smug and unnecessary for one.

 

[LukasTaves]

I'm assuming VR covers everything. Not just software, but all the hardware stuff - Rift, Vive, PSVR, and all the mobile options like Gear or Cardboard along with their software.

Still too high imo, even if 100% of items sold were sold at 700 dollars, we are talking about over 3.5 million sales and honestly I doubt that even combining all VR sets amounts to 1/3 of that*.




* Unless they are counting smartphones as VR devices.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Those PC master race comments are always hilarious. Honestly everyone is a gamer that likes to play games even mobile counts. It's great to see that all platforms are doing well but it's always dumb to see people acting like they are superior for having a PC, Console or whatever.

The growth in f2p is more concerning to me then who gets the most revenue.

F2P is a double edge sword.

It's good because it allows more people to join in and experience things but on the other hand can be easily scewed over to "moneygrub" or some form of "P2W".

Your response to manzo comes of as smug and unnecessary for one.

Maybe I should elaborate my thought on the comment;
Do you not see value in things that don't interest you?

 

[Moonstone]

Someone in the other thread said this was console digital, not physical where console makes its money.

Ok thanks.

This whole info-graphic is extremely misleading. It says "Interactive Media" (gaming) made 91 billion dollars total, and console was only $6.6 billion, but the $6.6 billion was only console direct downloads? But the info-graphic categories that omit console physical still add up to their total number of $91 million.

I assume perhaps they mean gaming made 91 billion via downloads, not total? But they counted e-sports so ????

VR would also be very high if it doesn't include hardware.
Are there actually 1 million devices out there? PS VR, Vive and Oculus is probably below that number. Maybe with Gear VR. And most of those devices were released recently.

If if there were theoretically 2 mio VR devices - each owner would have to spend 1300$ each to reach 2.7 billion $ revenue (without december one of the biggest month of the year).

So VR number is obviously with hardware included which makes the info graphic even more strange. They shouldn't compare apples and oranges.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

This whole info-graphic is extremely misleading. It says "Interactive Media" (gaming) made 91 billion dollars total, and console was only $6.6 billion, but the $6.6 billion was only console direct downloads? But the info-graphic categories that omit console physical still add up to their total number of $91 million.

I assume perhaps they mean gaming made 91 billion via downloads, not total? But they counted e-sports so ????

seems that way, console sales includes all DD related but doesnt include retail while PC includes everything but the kitchen sink.

still impressive numbers, im surprised world of tanks made more than Dota2

 

[Interfectum]

So VR number is obviously with hardware included which makes the info graphic even more strange. They shouldn't compare apples and oranges.

They probably tossed hardware in the VR numbers so VCs don't have a mental breakdown when they see the software revenue.

 

[synce]

Had no idea PC was killing consoles this badly. This explains all the sudden interest from even Japan.

On the other hand it's sad to see mobile and F2P is where most of the money is. Something tells me 10-20 years from now I'll only be playing games from the pre-digital era

 

[dracula_x]

as mentioned in first few posts, Sony does report PSN sales and it seems like they will go well over 6 billion this year alone. Just on PSN.

yes, that report doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Joco]

I'll be curious to see if the trends highlighted in this data lead to even fewer "AAA" titles being funded and published. It seems like it'd be far less risky, and potentially more profitable, for a publisher to make a number of free to play titles for mobile and PC, rather than hedging bets on one $50+ million title and hoping for the best.

 

[Helznicht]

PC gaming is growing.

I helped a friend down the street put in a gaming card in their computer last week. Helped my sons friend build his first PC last month, and an old buddy called to get help in picking parts for his sons PC he wants to build for Xmas. I always get asked about PC upgrades for gaming at work.

For 10 years up to 2016, I wasn't doing PC stuff for friends at all, it was all about the consoles. The resurgence is refreshing.

 

[hanspampel]

They probably tossed hardware in the VR numbers so VCs don't have a mental breakdown when they see the software revenue.

not probably. they did. it's mentioned in the report

 

[KillerMan91]

I'll be curious to see if the trends highlighted in this data lead to even fewer "AAA" titles being funded and published. It seems like it'd be far less risky, and potentially more profitable, for a publisher to make a number of free to play titles for mobile and PC, rather than hedging bets on one $50+ million title and hoping for the best.

You just can't automatically turn your AAA games busines to hugely profitable F2P mobile/PC business. There is huge amount competition in those markets too and especially in Asia where most mobile/PC revenue comes from. Just as you can't enter to AAA business and automatically make as much money as someone like EA. AAA business is still hugely profitable for big publishers and I don't see it dying just like blockbuster movies will never die.

 

[Com Truise]

So for the Mobile and PC numbers they include everything that's possible to spend money on, then the console number is just digital PSN or something and the VR number includes hardware because why not.

What are they even comparing I don't get it. Superdata's data is so not super.

 

[Aztechnology]

I wonder if you guys actually saw the post he replied to ?

Doesnt that come off as rude ?

Yes, but it was a bit of an over reaction and a silly statement to boot.

 

[Milly Osworth]

We're niche now.

 

[pager99]

PC is a beast. Almost 6 times as much as console.

Thats just digital

Isn't that image misleading? If I understand correctly the $6.6 billion figure is for digital downloads on console. Total console revenue should be most of the $26 billion in retail plus 6.6 billion in digital sales, correct? So let's say $30 or so billion in total?

Yes correct

 

[Sportbilly]

Why does this sort of data always seem a bit obfuscated? We've got a figure for PC everything (including retail? but not hardware?), a figure for what looks like console digital only (including microtransaction?) and a figure for retail (presumably including PC retail, but is this console hardware too?). Are there more meaningful figures available in the full report?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Why does this sort of data always seem a bit obfuscated? We've got a figure for PC everything (including retail? but not hardware?), a figure for what looks like console digital only (including microtransaction?) and a figure for retail (presumably including PC retail, but is this console hardware too?). Are there more meaningful figures available in the full report?

It is bizarre, it probably makes alot more sense to the suits and numbers people.

 

[Wyndstryker]

which part of asia is spending so much money on pc gaming

I guess a lot of it has to do with the shear amount of people though. I don't think they actually spend more per person, not at all. Games are also a lot cheaper there but I know some of them get super addicted to F2P models and spend a lot

China, Taiwan, and Korea never had the same console exposure than Japan or the west, so gaming in general is associated with PC's in those countries. F2P gaming over there was already mainstream in early 2000

 

[ArtHands]

That picture illustrates why Sony is so worried and taking actions to stop the bleeding of their Playstation customers to the PC.

 

[pager99]

That picture illustrates why Sony is so worried and taking actions to stop the bleeding of their Playstation customers to the PC.

It illustrates your reading comprehension besides the pc market is huge in asia if anything Sony is gaining a foothold there

 

[Saucycarpdog]

It illustrates your reading comprehension besides the pc market is huge in asia if anything Sony is gaining a foothold there

Citation please.

 

[Aztechnology]

Why does this sort of data always seem a bit obfuscated? We've got a figure for PC everything (including retail? but not hardware?), a figure for what looks like console digital only (including microtransaction?) and a figure for retail (presumably including PC retail, but is this console hardware too?). Are there more meaningful figures available in the full report?

It does not include retail. But PC's retail is probably like 5% of sales, maybe 10 if we count for digital cards, currency etc. The importance of digital is the margins are higher by quite a significant amount compared to retail.

Here why digital is so so important, especially owning one's own storefront.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/anatomy-of-a-60-dollar-video-game.html

 

[Spacecowboy77]

Wow, PC market is huge

 

[Aaron D.]

I think you can probably embark on ethnographic field research to determine that yourself, but I'd start with GOTY voting and threads sorted by most replies.

10/10

 

[Killroyskbg]

The PC master race people in here coming out in parade over digital download revenue...

Seriously PC retail is dead since years ago and Sony have 5 bilion in downloads alone. If digital is between 20-30% of the sales that would mean Sony again alone does 17-25 billion. Then you have Xbox and Nintendo as well.

 

[Aztechnology]

The PC master race people in here coming out in parade over digital download revenue...

Seriously PC retail is dead since years ago and Sony have 6 bilion in downloads alone. If digital is between 20-30% of the sales that would mean Sony again alone does 20-30 billion. Then you have Xbox and Nintendo as well.

Digital is around 50% and as I stated above profit from that revenue tells a different story. There's a reason why digital is taken very seriously, the margins are higher.

 

[viHuGi]

The PC master race people in here coming out in parade over digital download revenue...

Seriously PC retail is dead since years ago and Sony have 5 bilion in downloads alone. If digital is between 20-30% of the sales that would mean Sony again alone does 17-25 billion. Then you have Xbox and Nintendo as well.

Don't say that, they prefer to ignore the digital sentence in it.

Yeah Sony Playstation must be doing over 20b yearly if we count hardware, plus and everything.

 

[Aztechnology]

Don't say that, they prefer to ignore the digital sentence in it.

Yeah Sony Playstation must be doing over 20b yearly if we count hardware, plus and everything.

Sony's entire year revenue expectation is $15.35 billion from their financial report. With a $1.3 billion operational income.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Digital is around 50% and as I stated above profit from that revenue tells a different story. There's a reason why PC is taken very seriously, the margins are higher.

Where do you get 50% from. Link? Last numbers i saw in a report they were not that high. And I guess you mean worldwide and not US.

And I dont argue the profitability of digital sales i argue the sanity of some people who belived that PC does 6 times the revenue of console gaming.

 

[Aztechnology]

Where do you get 50% from. Link? Last numbers i saw in a report they were not that high. And I guess you mean worldwide and not US.

And I dont argue the profitability of digital sales i argue the sanity of some people who belived that PC does 6 times the revenue of console gaming.

Of revenue total I mean. Not sales, sorry trying to find the link. This includes services, DLC etc. Might be lower than that slightly not sure.

Physical vs digital games sales is like 25-30% like you said.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Can someone explain me these data because it seems oddly... wrong.
Superdata.... again.

God I hate how Internet has become a source of information but that nobody takes the time to check before
The more it's shared, the more it becomes true. Sad, very sad (see Climate Change for many of US citizens, and vaccination... and I could keep going on).

Spoiler

But yeah I understand, it's gaming data, not that important. Just that I don't trust this until proven true.

 

[Kareha]

Enjoying hassle free gaming from couch?

I don't have a problem with it, HDMI into the back of the TV and I'm sorted.

 

[Aztechnology]

https://newzoo.com/insights/article...aches-99-6-billion-2016-mobile-generating-37/

This is interesting and helps explain why growth in those markets is so much larger than console.

 

[Sportbilly]

It does not include retail. But PC's retail is probably like 5% of sales, maybe 10 if we count for digital cards, currency etc. The importance of digital is the margins are higher by quite a significant amount compared to retail.

Here why digital is so so important, especially owning one's own storefront.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/anatomy-of-a-60-dollar-video-game.html

Oh, I'm aware of that, and I've got no particular axe to grind, although I'm pleased to see the PC market in such rude health. I'm just saying that the figures are really not clear and can't really be used for meaningful comparisons as they are, as people have to resort to guessing based on incomplete data to fill in the blanks.

A couple of posts down from this, you've got someone saying that including hardware, console revenues are well over $20 billion. This may or may not be true, but again, it's comparing a figure that includes hardware to the PC total, which presumably doesn't.

Would it be that hard for Superdata to break the various categories down appropriately (or is this in the full report)? As it is, the figures cited just seem designed to provoke forum arguments rather than be a proper source of definitive info, aka the Chartzzzz method of presenting data.

 

[Sami+]

PC is a beast.

If you're a gamer and don't have (or are not saving for) a capable gaming PC I don't know what the fuck you're doing with your life anymore.

I have a i5 GTX 760 pretty ok-ish PC but honestly I haven't played a single game on it since I got my launch PS4. Just got a Pro for TLG again so I have even less reason to now than I already did lol.

 

[Aztechnology]

Oh, I'm aware of that, and I've got no particular axe to grind, although I'm pleased to see the PC market in such rude health. I'm just saying that the figures are really not clear and can't really be used for meaningful comparisons as they are, as people have to resort to guessing based on incomplete data to fill in the blanks.

A couple of posts down from this, you've got someone saying that including hardware, console revenues are well over $20 billion. This may or may not be true, but again, it's comparing a figure that includes hardware to the PC total, which presumably doesn't.

Would it be that hard for Superdata to break the various categories down appropriately (or is this in the full report)? As it is, the figures cited just seem designed to provoke forum arguments rather than be a proper source of definitive info, aka the Chartzzzz method of presenting data.

Yea, I won't argue that it's an extremely silly way of reporting numbers and serves to only confuse general consumers. That's why I'm trying to show some information about why digital is so important and why they seem to be evaluating it. Hopefully with some other links, like the other link I posted above helps to clarify a few things. We can certainly find a better report than this, or at least a predictor/analyst report on expected outcomes to show a more reasonable picture.

I have a i5 GTX 760 pretty ok-ish PC but honestly I haven't played a single game on it since I got my launch PS4. Just got a Pro for TLG again so I have even less reason to now than I already did lol.

That's cool, glad you have what you need. But it's important to note your reality doesn't necessarily reflect others, as a rule it seems it's moving the other way. Growth in PC, and Mobile is climbing as console is shrinking. Obviously console isn't going anywhere for a long while yet, but I really hope to see it's "dominance" shrink if I'm being honest as I think it will bring about through necessity more open platforms from these companies as they begin to become more platform agnostic to draw in revenue from PC and Mobile (mobile processing power will evolve very quickly) which will mean more people can play great games from Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo. Granted Microsoft has already sort of started down the path. Albeit shittily.

 

[Aaron D.]

That's cool, glad you have what you need. But it's important to note your reality doesn't necessarily reflect others, as a rule it seems it's moving the other way. Growth in PC, and Mobile is climbing as console is shrinking. Obviously console isn't going anywhere for a long while yet, but I really hope to see it's "dominance" shrink if I'm being honest as I think it will bring about through necessity more open platforms from these companies as they begin to become more platform agnostic to draw in revenue from PC and Mobile (mobile processing power will evolve very quickly) which will mean more people can play great games from Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo. Granted Microsoft has already sort of started down the path. Albeit shittily.

Yeah, I agree with this.

I think in a decade or two people will look back and think, "Hardware-exclusive gaming experiences? LOL!"

 

[hanspampel]

It does not include retail. But PC's retail is probably like 5% of sales, maybe 10 if we count for digital cards, currency etc. The importance of digital is the margins are higher by quite a significant amount compared to retail.

Here why digital is so so important, especially owning one's own storefront.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2010/02/anatomy-of-a-60-dollar-video-game.html

the difference for digital and physical is huge, when it comes to accounting.
every digital purchase on psn or xbox live will be 100% revenue for microsoft or sony in the books and they keep 30% as their grossprofit
for every physical purchase? only the platform royalty fee of 7-12$ for each $60 game

that is the reason why sonys network revenue is already 3 times as much as physical revenue



for publisher the difference is also there, but not as big
they gross 42$ per $60 game sold at digital and $45 per $60 game sold at retail
but the gross margin on digital purchases is way better for publisher. because they can keep 100% of that $42.
as the pie pointed out on physical sales, they only keep $27 for every 45$ they gross