Support NeoGAF

[leo-j]

Sounds very beefy

If these specs are nearly true, we can exspect an even more powerful Xbox Two. There is zero chance Microsoft ever launch a weaker console than Sony’s.

You can expect microsoft to launch more expensive then.... unless they launch months apart.

we shall see what happens.

 

[ethomaz]

Not quit true?

GTX 2080TI crushes anything overclocked to 14TFs from AMD... even GTX 2080 reaches more performance.

I’m not sure what are you even fighting about...

 

[Chiggs]

You know things are gonna get shitty when Beyond3D enters the picture.

 

[LucidFeuer]

"The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps" all I need to spot a fake.

 

[Shin]

While this rumor is dead due to a banned Pain (whatever the poster is called), there are some rumblings worth of note.




https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...rs-and-discussion.59649/page-292#post-2057325
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8hu0be/amds_new_patent_supersimd_for_gpu_computing/

The super-SIMD part is interesting and potentially how we cramp more CU's into the limited GCN arc (plus AMD have a lot of patents in that regard).
So if you want to make a proper thread with own research with on/off leaks and/or patents there's a start for you.

 

[llien]

Not according to AMD.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/amd-claims-navi-will-compete-with-nvidia’s-high-end-gpus.1469420/

No word on Navi though.
Rumors that I'm aware of:

1) Small Navi, up to 1080-ish levels, dirt chip to make, coming this year. Allegedly was first tested in Oct last year. "Better than expected" but some unnamed manufacturing problems that caused it to be postponed.
2) Bigger Navi ("we won't repeat Polaris mistake", which was relying on Vega covering that part of the market) coming 2020.

 

[nowhat]

Small Navi, up to 1080-ish levels, dirt chip to make, coming this year.

Oh come on. AMD may not be competitive with NVidia in the very high-end market, but calling it a "dirt chip" is a bit much innit?

 

[Insane Metal]

While this rumor is dead due to a banned Pain (whatever the poster is called), there are some rumblings worth of note.




https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...rs-and-discussion.59649/page-292#post-2057325
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8hu0be/amds_new_patent_supersimd_for_gpu_computing/

The super-SIMD part is interesting and potentially how we cramp more CU's into the limited GCN arc (plus AMD have a lot of patents in that regard).
So if you want to make a proper thread with own research with on/off leaks and/or patents there's a start for you.

No idea what any of this means

 

[db1416]

I can’t remember a console that launched Q1

You serious?

 

[Clear]

"The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps" all I need to spot a fake.

I dunno, if NG have been building TLOU2 to target 1080p/30 on base PS4, then going 4K/60 on a system effectively 2 steps up seems attainable. Lets face it. we're talking about a 1.8tf system compared to something much, much higher in both GPU and CPU performance.

 

[Negotiator]

I dunno, if NG have been building TLOU2 to target 1080p/30 on base PS4, then going 4K/60 on a system effectively 2 steps up seems attainable. Lets face it. we're talking about a 1.8tf system compared to something much, much higher in both GPU and CPU performance.

I expect something between 12 and 15 TF. 4k60 should be doable for current-gen (not next-gen) games, as long as Navi delivers with its higher efficiency promise.

 

[Ozymandias013]

People should realize that consoles will never be a high end pc,because of price,the specs of a console will be to match the price that will be under 500$.So people should lower their expectations

 

[ptuck874]

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2058510/






Wii U leak

 

[Insane Metal]

@06:50 DRAM prices plummeting (again). This is some great timing. hahah

Prices expected to fall by as much as 30% from Q1 to Q2.

 

[blu]

Seems really beefy. Wonder if those "full backwards compatibility w all Sony systems" rumors are true.

It depends how much that rumored turbo-boost can sustain, and what is the base freq.

Remember, Cell was a monstrous (for its time) SIMD machine, which ran at 3.2 GHz without throttling. If we assume sony have a high-quality binary translator for Cell on the Zen (i.e. not some stupid interpreter emulaton), then those cores have to sustain the same throughput as Cell, and that's quite a bit for some operations. For instance, a Cell SPE could do matmul at 25Gflops, and Cell had 7 of those available (one to the os, the rest -- to the app). Now, Zen2 has 256-bit wide SIMD (vs 128-bit on the SPE), but for the binary translation to put two SPE threads on a single Zen2 core, that can be quite an engineering challenge.

 

[Negotiator]

It depends how much that rumored turbo-boost can sustain, and what is the base freq.

Remember, Cell was a monstrous (for its time) SIMD machine, which ran at 3.2 GHz without throttling. If we assume sony have a high-quality binary translator for Cell on the Zen (i.e. not some stupid interpreter emulaton), then those cores have to sustain the same throughput as Cell, and that's quite a bit for some operations. For instance, a Cell SPE could do matmul at 25Gflops, and Cell had 7 of those available (one to the os, the rest -- to the app). Now, Zen2 has 256-bit wide SIMD (vs 128-bit on the SPE), but for the binary translation to put two SPE threads on a single Zen2 core, that can be quite an engineering challenge.

Turbo boost is pointless for consoles, you want sustained performance (3.2 GHz is gonna be the baseline frequency most likely).

Why not put 1 SPU core to 1 Zen core? Wouldn't it be easier that way?

Also, Cell has an ultra-fast internal ring bus (300 GB/s). I'm not sure if Zen can emulate that.

PC emulators still haven't managed to emulate 6 SPUs in real time... the 7th SPU is for the OS and I guess they could rewrite that in native x86 code (AVX2).

IIRC, MS has rewritten the 360 OS from scratch on XB1, it's not emulated per se.

 

[Imtjnotu]

@06:50 DRAM prices plummeting (again). This is some great timing. hahah

Prices expected to fall by as much as 30% from Q1 to Q2.

Oh thank God

 

[DeepEnigma]

@06:50 DRAM prices plummeting (again). This is some great timing. hahah

Prices expected to fall by as much as 30% from Q1 to Q2.

I wonder if there is any correlation of prices dropping and the console makers putting their orders in.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

I was wondering this same thing, not only DRAM prices dropping but also the sudden drop in SSD pricing we have been seeing as well.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I was wondering this same thing, not only DRAM prices dropping but also the sudden drop in SSD pricing we have been seeing as well.

Oh man, I would if the next gen consoles had SSDs or some sort of NAND caching to assist any HDD you slap in.

 

[Negotiator]

I was wondering this same thing, not only DRAM prices dropping but also the sudden drop in SSD pricing we have been seeing as well.

I guess this prediction was right:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/319...dram-will-crash-in-2019-gartner-predicts.html

I wonder if there is any correlation of prices dropping and the console makers putting their orders in.

They're not dumb, they know when it's the right time to order million of chips.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I guess this prediction was right:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/319...dram-will-crash-in-2019-gartner-predicts.html




They're not dumb, they know when it's the right time to order million of chips.

Oh I know that, I am just wondering if when we see sharp drops around these times, that it is a side effect of said orders. Meaning, "hey manufacturers, we are about to put an order in, if the global price is right".

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I’d be stoked if we what we get is just close to what this predicts, especially for CPU.

 

[Insane Metal]

Oh man, I would if the next gen consoles had SSDs or some sort of NAND caching to assist any HDD you slap in.

I think there's a very high chance they will have SSDs.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think there's a very high chance they will have SSDs.

Fingers crossed. My only concern, is that the PS systems have always been swappable. So if games are written for them in mind, it would have to have something I would think to assist if some less than technically adept people swap in a mechanical drive that is much slower. Also, external drive speeds with games in comparison of loading assets (pop in) etc..

 

[Imtjnotu]

Fingers crossed. My only concern, is that the PS systems have always been swappable. So if games are written for them in mind, it would have to have something I would think to assist if some less than technically adept people swap in a mechanical drive that is much slower. Also, external drive speeds with games in comparison of loading assets (pop in) etc..

but with ssd prices dropping, swapping another ssd would still be cheap. the evo 860's 512gb were on sale for 70 bucks last week.

 

[Negotiator]

Fingers crossed. My only concern, is that the PS systems have always been swappable. So if games are written for them in mind, it would have to have something I would think to assist if some less than technically adept people swap in a mechanical drive that is much slower. Also, external drive speeds with games in comparison of loading assets (pop in) etc..

Not all SSDs are SATA to be swappable with HDDs. I think they will have a M.2 SSD.

Regarding USB HDDs, that's an interesting question... will they be supported if SSD is the next-gen baseline?

 

[DeepEnigma]

but with ssd prices dropping, swapping another ssd would still be cheap. the evo 860's 512gb were on sale for 70 bucks last week.

Oh I am not concerned with that aspect. It is something I would be doing eventually in the next gen systems, just wondering how they will tackle slower drives if games are built with flash speeds in mind.

I remember when I put a 500GB Caviar Black 7200rpm drive in my PS3 back in '09 it made the PS3 load so much faster in almost all facets, but some game's cut scenes like Uncharted stuttered due to it being designed around the slower drive. I believe it was eventually ironed out. So I am wondering the reverse effect in that. It may not be that huge of an issue since games are also designed with the PC in mind with various configurations.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not all SSDs are SATA to be swappable with HDDs. I think they will have a M.2 SSD.

Regarding USB HDDs, that's an interesting question... will they be supported if SSD is the next-gen baseline?

M.2 would be fantastic.

I guess time will tell. I would hate to see slow mechanical again, without any sort of aide to boost those speeds.

 

[Freeman454]

You know things are gonna get shitty when Beyond3D enters the picture.

Tell me about it, the boards mods are having an agenda over there, its impossible to get discussions going there, its no suprise devs left that forum a long time ago. Its a good thing DF member(s) are registred here and not on B3D!

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Fingers crossed. My only concern, is that the PS systems have always been swappable. So if games are written for them in mind, it would have to have something I would think to assist if some less than technically adept people swap in a mechanical drive that is much slower. Also, external drive speeds with games in comparison of loading assets (pop in) etc..

I’m not expecting SSDs for intimate releases of next gen consoles, but it would be awesome.

I have an extra 1TB 860 Evo lying around that I picked up on a “too good to pass up even if I don’t have use for it yet” sale this past holiday season. Unopened, collecting dust, so I’ll swap that into the PS5 unless it launches with SSD installed already, in which case I’ll just use as extra external storage

 

[DeepEnigma]

I’m not expecting SSDs for intimate releases of next gen consoles, but it would be awesome.

I have an extra 1TB 860 Evo lying around that I picked up on a “too good to pass up even if I don’t have use for it yet” sale this past holiday season. Unopened, collecting dust, so I’ll swap that into the PS5 unless it launches with SSD installed already, in which case I’ll just use as extra external storage

Do you have an SSD already in your PS4?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Do you have an SSD already in your PS4?

Yeah. 1TB internal for “main games” and a 2TB external mechanical for “side games,” if that makes sense

 

[EDMIX]

"The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps" all I need to spot a fake.

I don't know if its real, but I"m not sure how that would be seen as fake. think about it, PS3 The Last Of Us ported to PS4 at 1080p 60fps, with Pro support was 4K 60fps.

Why would it be shocking if PS4 The Last Of Us 2 ported to PS5 at 4K 60fps?

I see PS4 Pro hitting 4K checkerboard and locked 30 or something, I see little reason to believe PS5 would not be able to do that on a last gen game...

 

[Imtjnotu]

Yeah. 1TB internal for “main games” and a 2TB external mechanical for “side games,” if that makes sense

2tb ssd? Ok Richie rich

 

[Chozofication_]

Tell me about it, the boards mods are having an agenda over there, its impossible to get discussions going there, its no suprise devs left that forum a long time ago. Its a good thing DF member(s) are registred here and not on B3D!

For real, they're supremely arrogant and biased. The entire old guard attacked me whenever we were discussing 6th and 5th gen hardware or when I argued anything positive of nintendo.

 

[Chozofication_]

Do you have an SSD already in your PS4?

Yeah my 1tb ssd in my base unit makes things so much snappier, even the menu is much more responsive. Mark my words we'll get ssds next gen as standard.

 

[onQ123]

Fingers crossed. My only concern, is that the PS systems have always been swappable. So if games are written for them in mind, it would have to have something I would think to assist if some less than technically adept people swap in a mechanical drive that is much slower. Also, external drive speeds with games in comparison of loading assets (pop in) etc..

I'm hoping that they have 1 or 2 CFexpress/XQD card slots (Old Sony would have done it like the Compact Flash slot on my PS3) if NVMe becomes the standard that will mean CFexpess cards will also be cheap , in fact I think CFexpess is one of the reasons why NVMe is about to drop in price because if they are going to be competing with SD cards they will have to be in a lower price range , Also it would be like what the Micro SD is to the Switch & if we was to get a portable PS5 one day that use mobile Zen & a smaller Navi GPU playing the games in lower resolution you could just take your card out of the PS5 & put it in the portable.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm hoping that they have 1 or 2 CFexpress/XQD card slots (Old Sony would have done it like the Compact Flash slot on my PS3) if NVMe becomes the standard that will mean CFexpess cards will also be cheap , in fact I think CFexpess is one of the reasons why NVMe is about to drop in price because if they are going to be competing with SD cards they will have to be in a lower price range , Also it would be like what the Micro SD is to the Switch & if we was to get a portable PS5 one day that use mobile Zen & a smaller Navi GPU playing the games in lower resolution you could just take your card out of the PS5 & put it in the portable.

Shades of TG16.

 

[onQ123]

Shades of TG16.

Yep & it seem like the perfect time to revisit that approach , make a wearable PS5 that's just powerful enough to run the 4K PS5 games in 1080P or 720P & hook up to a HMD & it's on.

 

[Freeman454]

For real, they're supremely arrogant and biased. The entire old guard attacked me whenever we were discussing 6th and 5th gen hardware or when I argued anything positive of nintendo.

Heard this from rather many, the board is sony biased, by the mod team aswell. Anything non-sony gets bashed, argument against it and be warned. Half the forum bashes MS/pc/nvidia, how bad Metro is, comment Dreams ps4 and be banned. Imo i think all platforms have their place

 

[DonJimbo]

Interesting information
I'm so excited for the reveal and launch and hope the console has full backwards compatibility with all playstation games

 

[lV-426]

I'm buying the first console that has Bloodborne 2, I don't care about features or gush over operating system updates.

Mark Cerny gave us the Ps4. The most consistently high performance console to date. 99 percent of the games are 1080p.

he will give us a hell of a machine, PSVR2, and GAMES. Nobody plays specs.

 

[Jaxx_377]

I can’t remember a console that launched Q1

It isnt the usual timeframe but
The Switch just launched March 3, 2017, also PS2 was March 4, 2000 so it is possible to release Q1. You could even use the extra time to roll out new network features to get the bugs out before its first holiday season

 

[MrWilson2912]

i agree it will be shown off mid year and then go into more depth in november at psx before launching early next year. Too many times these consoles launch just before christmas with not enough stock creating shortages. Something they will want to avoid with this launch

 

[MadAnon]

I call utter bs. 8 core ZEN2 CPU with 12TF Navi GPU on the same die? For 700+ bucks maybe. We are talking about the latest generation tech from AMD and people expect it to cost 500$ max? Keep believing that nonsense. Besides, you will need decent cooling for it. I want to remind people that Xbox One X cost 500$ and it had an old, outdated Jaguar CPU at that time. GPU was the only thing that was improved significantly compared to Xbox One, and they had to go for a much beefier cooling as a result. And as I said, it still cost 500$ although Kinect was also stripped from the package.

Do people seriously think that they just slap together these dev kits in few months according to the latest tech trends and proceed to mass produce it? LMAO! We are talking about a custom APU with a custom motherboard and cooling here, not some PC case where you slap in whatever you want. Unless that console is launched in 2021 you can forget about Zen2 and Navi.

 

[Chozofication_]

Heard this from rather many, the board is sony biased, by the mod team aswell. Anything non-sony gets bashed, argument against it and be warned. Half the forum bashes MS/pc/nvidia, how bad Metro is, comment Dreams ps4 and be banned. Imo i think all platforms have their place

Heard this from rather many, the board is sony biased, by the mod team aswell. Anything non-sony gets bashed, argument against it and be warned. Half the forum bashes MS/pc/nvidia, how bad Metro is, comment Dreams ps4 and be banned. Imo i think all platforms have their place

I didn't see much of that, but then again I only posted in the console technology sub forum. In the next gen speculation thread the mods were adamant about next gen not having ssd and called me dumb, but as we get closer to launch we see these rumors and how far ssd prices are falling lol.

 

[GermanZepp]

I call utter bs. 8 core ZEN2 CPU with 12TF Navi GPU on the same die? For 700+ bucks maybe. We are talking about the latest generation tech from AMD and people expect it to cost 500$ max? Keep believing that nonsense. Besides, you will need decent cooling for it. I want to remind people that Xbox One X cost 500$ and it had an old, outdated Jaguar CPU at that time. GPU was the only thing that was improved significantly compared to Xbox One, and they had to go for a much beefier cooling as a result. And as I said, it still cost 500$ although Kinect was also stripped from the package.

Do people seriously think that they just slap together these dev kits in few months according to the latest tech trends and proceed to mass produce it? LMAO! We are talking about a custom APU with a custom motherboard and cooling here, not some PC case where you slap in whatever you want. Unless that console is launched in 2021 you can forget about Zen2 and Navi.

Agreed. So.. PS5 in not going to have a +14TF and 32GB ram ? Dead on arrival. Lol, PS5 is gonna have, if we are lucky 2017 hardware

 

[MadAnon]

Agreed. So.. PS5 in not going to have a +14TF and 32GB ram ? Dead on arrival. Lol, PS5 is gonna have, if we are lucky 2017 hardware

I personally expect something based on current Ryzen+Polaris architecture. Obviously downclocked to save on cooling, and maybe some added features from newer generations because it will be custom APU after all. I'm looking at that 8-10TF zone. No more than 16GB of RAM. Forget about SSD.

 

[MadAnon]

I actually meant Ryzen+Vega architecture.