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[The Shadow]

Good verdict. Really foolish students.

Agreed. We're talking about students in a racially-charged school wearing US flag t-shirts at an event celebrating Cinco de Mayo. An event that had issues in prior years with students causing disruptions waving a US flag.

Pretty clear cut case IMO.

We're still on this 'not a real holiday' bullshit I see.

Kind of the standard shtick for any political, racial, or religious issue, right? That narcissism wherein something only matters if it's what they support, grew up with, or believe in.

 

[The Beard]

Americans finding the American flag offensive is disturbing. Being forced to participate in a Mexican holiday in an American public school is odd to me (not necessarily wrong, just odd).

If school was in session during the 4th of July and some Mexican American students were told to turn their Mexican flag shirts inside out or leave school. It'd be a much bigger deal than this is. There would be outrage !

I think there were much better ways to handle this. A teaching moment was lost for the sake of being "PC".

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Americans finding the American flag offensive is disturbing. Being forced to participate in a Mexican holiday in an American public school is odd to me (not necessarily wrong, just odd).

If school was in session during the 4th of July and some Mexican American students were told to turn their Mexican flag shirts inside out or leave school. It'd be a much bigger deal than this is. There would be outrage !

I think there were much better ways to handle this. A teaching moment was lost for the sake of being "PC".

I really wish people would read and comprehend before popping off about 'offense.' This was a matter of student safety.

From the OP's link:

School officials acted out of legitimate concerns of violence when they sent a handful of students home for refusing to change their American flag-embellished apparel, the court said.

From other coverage on the matter:

A lower court tossed out the students’ lawsuit in December 2011, ruling that school administrators have wide legal latitude to ensure the safety and effective operation of their campuses and a “perceived threat” of violence vindicated the principal’s decision.
The lower court judge who tossed out the case, the now-retired Chief Judge James Ware, noted that “our Constitution grants public school children only limited First Amendment rights when they enter the schoolhouse gates,” while conceding this particular case has landed in “important legal territory.”
University of California, Los Angeles, law professor and free speech expert Eugene Volokh calls such punishment a “heckler’s veto.” In public, speakers are protected from such a restriction and allowed to voice most opinions. On-campus students don’t enjoy the same free speech rights.
“A school may restrict a student’s speech,” Volokh said, “to prevent unruly disruptions.”
Still, Volokh said administrators can — and sometimes do — go too far and overreact to a perceived threat that may not cause a big enough on-campus stir to warrant the censorship.

If there's any further ambiguity here's the actual published opinion of the 9th circuit court of appeals

The panel held that school officials did not violate the
students’ rights to freedom of expression, due process, or
equal protection. The panel held given the history of prior
events at the school, including an altercation on campus, it
was reasonable for school officials to proceed as though the
threat of a potentially violent disturbance was real. The
panel held that school officials anticipated violence or
substantial disruption of or material interference with school
activities, and their response was tailored to the
circumstances.

Live Oak had a history of violence among students, some
gang-related and some drawn along racial lines. In the six
years that Nick Boden served as principal, he observed at
least thirty fights on campus, both between gangs and
between Caucasian and Hispanic students. A police officer is
stationed on campus every day to ensure safety on school
grounds.

Seriously people, stop saying the context didn't matter.

 

[KHarvey16]

Americans finding the American flag offensive is disturbing. Being forced to participate in a Mexican holiday in an American public school is odd to me (not necessarily wrong, just odd).

If school was in session during the 4th of July and some Mexican American students were told to turn their Mexican flag shirts inside out or leave school. It'd be a much bigger deal than this is. There would be outrage !

I think there were much better ways to handle this. A teaching moment was lost for the sake of being "PC".

Almost none of this appears to relate to the incident being discussed.

 

[The Beard]

I really wish people would read and comprehend before popping off about 'offense.' This was a matter of student safety.

From the OP's link:



From other coverage on the matter:



If there's any further ambiguity here's the actual published opinion of the 9th circuit court of appeals





Seriously people, stop saying the context didn't matter.

I did read it and I did understand it. School officials were afraid that the Mexican-American students would be offended that the other American students were wearing American flags on Cinco De Mayo. They're all Americans right ? Why would the Mexican-American students be offended by the non-Mexican students wearing the American flag ? It's their flag too. They live in America. They are Americans.

If the American flag incites violence at your school, then you've got some serious issues. Your school district has done a shitty job teaching these kids.

 

[Regulus Tera]

That's not even remotely true. To begin with, there is no school that day because it's an actually holiday not a "fake" holiday, secondly, there are military parades in every state capital where teenagers in the process of completing their military service have to participate, and third, in the state of Puebla (where the battle took place) not only is there a military parade, but also an reenactment of the battle with Mexican and French uniforms of the era. You call that not caring? The meaning of Cinco de Mayo has being distorted in the U.S. to the point of it just being a day where they reenforce Mexican stereotypes and get drunk. In Mexico, Cinco de Mayo is a day of pride and respect for the men who died for the country in the past. In the U.S., its a day to put on a sombrero and get drunk. I hate it.

You speak like I don't know what Cinco de Mayo is. FYI I'm from Guadalajara.

I'm aware of the parades and all, but it gets nowhere near the same attention September 16th or even November 20th do. For the majority of the populace is nothing but a free day. Of course, at military and governmental rankings it takes another level of seriousness.

 

[KHarvey16]

I did read it and I did understand it. School officials were afraid that the Mexican-American students would be offended that the other American students were wearing American flags on Cinco De Mayo. They're all Americans right ? Why would the Mexican-American students be offended by the non-Mexican students wearing the American flag ? It's their flag too. They live in America. They are Americans.

If the American flag incites violence at your school, then you've got some serious issues. Your school district has done a shitty job teaching these kids.

It's clear from this response that you haven't understood what's being presented to you. No one is offended by the flag itself.

 

[royalan]

I did read it and I did understand it. School officials were afraid that the Mexican-American students would be offended that the other American students were wearing American flags on Cinco De Mayo. They're all Americans right ? Why would the Mexican-American students be offended by the non-Mexican students wearing the American flag ? It's their flag too. They live in America. They are Americans.

If the American flag incites violence at your school, then you've got some serious issues. Your school district has done a shitty job teaching these kids.

But you act like these kids are being innocent here. They're not just harmlessly wearing American flag shirts.

They're wearing American flag shirts SPECIFICALLY on Cinco de Mayo and chanting "USA! USA! USA!" At students celebrating their heritage.

This isn't just just harmless patriotism. These kids are being intentionally antagonistic, and for what?

 

[massoluk]

I did read it and I did understand it. School officials were afraid that the Mexican-American students would be offended that the other American students were wearing American flags on Cinco De Mayo. They're all Americans right ? Why would the Mexican-American students be offended by the non-Mexican students wearing the American flag ? It's their flag too. They live in America. They are Americans.

If the American flag incites violence at your school, then you've got some serious issues. Your school district has done a shitty job teaching these kids.

To me, it sounded like the idiot kids were out there to rile up Mexican-American students as if the others students aren't Americans, while abusing the imagery of American flags.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I did read it and I did understand it. School officials were afraid that the Mexican-American students would be offended that the other American students were wearing American flags on Cinco De Mayo. They're all Americans right ? Why would the Mexican-American students be offended by the non-Mexican students wearing the American flag ? It's their flag too. They live in America. They are Americans.

If the American flag incites violence at your school, then you've got some serious issues. Your school district has done a shitty job teaching these kids.

The American flag is being appropriated as a gang symbol at the school. This is a problem worth addressing but at the moment it seems the principal is still caught up in day-to-day altercations has has to do something to keep students from getting assaulted over what is very much a provocation to violence. In a case like the one brought before the court it is more of that: the principal was firefighting.

If we're to assume from that the school is otherwise doing nothing to curb the 'serious issues' outside of the context of the documented incidents that's certainly not a conclusion one can draw from any of the articles posted so far. School staff have their hands often tied about what they can do to actively combat violence; It's noted they already have an officer on campus at all times to ensure security and there's no magic bullet for undoing racial tensions in a racially diverse campus.

 

[FStop7]

A bit torn on the decision. Generally I'm ok with giving discretion to school officials since they know the situation best, and the students wearing those t-shirts appear to have been doing so with a provocative intent.

With that said, right wing media is gonna eat this up.

Just to clarify, there wasn't a verdict or a decision. They simply declined to hear the case.

 

[Syriel]

But you act like these kids are being innocent here. They're not just harmlessly wearing American flag shirts.

They're wearing American flag shirts SPECIFICALLY on Cinco de Mayo and chanting "USA! USA! USA!" At students celebrating their heritage.

This isn't just just harmless patriotism. These kids are being intentionally antagonistic, and for what?

There were exactly -zero- reports of anyone chanting anything that day.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

The kids wearing the shirts are clearly doing this to make a point, and probably as some kind of (falsely) perceived rebellion. "We ain't celebrating no Mexico, man! Let's show 'em how much we ain't celebrating it with American flag shirts." I mean, what, does this school force everyone to speak Spanish and yell Viva Mexico all day every 5th of May?

Still, I think - in principle - the cool, "patriotic" kids should be able to wear an American flag, regardless of what statement they're covertly making. In principle. But schools are not equipped to deal with gang violence, let alone large groups. Imagine if a huge fight breaks out on campus what kind of fucking nightmare that would be for the school officials. Imagine if a kid or kids ended up dead. Given that something has happened before, their caution seems understandable.

Obvious couch lecturing here but the kids should be the focus. Get them out of gangs and improve race relations and you'll make events like this go away.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

There were exactly -zero- reports of anyone chanting anything that day.

One of the kids who got sent home in 2010 was part of the crowd from 2009's nativist chant-fest. The principal (correctly) concluded this made him a target when he came to school in 2010 'wearing the uniform' of the rabble rousers the year prior.

 

[royalan]

The American flag is being appropriated as a gang symbol at the school. This is a problem worth addressing but at the moment it seems the principal is still caught up in day-to-day altercations has has to do something to keep students from getting assaulted over what is very much a provocation to violence. In a case like the one brought before the court it is more of that: the principal was firefighting.

If we're to assume from that the school is otherwise doing nothing to curb the 'serious issues' outside of the context of the documented incidents that's certainly not a conclusion one can draw from any of the articles posted so far. School staff have their hands often tied about what they can do to actively combat violence; It's noted they already have an officer on campus at all times to ensure security and there's no magic bullet for undoing racial tensions in a racially diverse campus.

This is actually a great way to summarize what the problem here is.

 

[timetokill]

I think it's a bad ruling. It basically says that Mexican-American kids can't handle seeing an American flag on Cinco de Mayo, like bulls and the myth of seeing red. It seems heavy-handed.

If the kids started doing something to actively incite or disrupt, like chanting USA, sure, suspend their asses FOR actively inciting. It's just hard to swallow a "you can't show the American flag in America" ruling, regardless of the day.

Anyway, if these kids really wanted to be "smart" they'd come back on May 17th wearing all French colors. I bet nobody would even get it.

 

[KHarvey16]

"you can't show the American flag in America"

That isn't the ruling.

People keep using the word context but some don't seem to want to listen. Do you imagine the flag was removed from the flag pole outside of the school? If not, why wasn't it? The answer is important.

 

[GaimeGuy]

I get why they did it, hell the students were probably big jerks anyhow, but I'm not a huge fan of this ruling. The only thing that makes this OK by me is that they are high school students, a group not granted freedom of speech in the first place. But if this were anywhere else, I fear this would be a dangerous precedent to set. It should be on the school to respect all heritages equally to stop the violence, not ban one culture because of the fear of another lashing out at it.

If Mexican shirts were banned at the fourth of July because a bunch of Hispanics tried to piss off white supremacists, I'm sure the court and Neogaf would be taking an entirely different opinion.

Nothing dangerous about it. you don't need to permit all forms of expression to uphold freedom of speech as a founding principle of society. Could you overstep regulatory authority in certain onstancea? Sure, but society exists to correct these mistakes

 

[TheJLC]

Freedom of speech and other rights have always been limited in schools. So they are just affirming previous rulings, if anything.

 

[Bessy67]

I really wish people would read and comprehend before popping off about 'offense.' This was a matter of student safety.

From the OP's link:



From other coverage on the matter:



If there's any further ambiguity here's the actual published opinion of the 9th circuit court of appeals





Seriously people, stop saying the context didn't matter.

The context shouldn't matter at all. If I want to wear an American flag shirt I should be able to and if someone is offended enough to cause violence they should be arrested, not catered to.

 

[KHarvey16]

The context shouldn't matter at all. If I want to wear an American flag shirt I should be able to and if someone is offended enough to cause violence they should be arrested, not catered to.

Why is a shirt with colored threads arranged in a pattern representing the flag of the US given some kind of special consideration when compared to, say, a pattern representing a nude woman or a swastika? How do you propose we legislate the intrinsic value of a symbol unceremoniously manufactured in a sweatshop on the other side of the world so it can shield us from looking at someone's body and catch the sweat from their armpits?

 

[No Love]

The context shouldn't matter at all. If I want to wear an American flag shirt I should be able to and if someone is offended enough to cause violence they should be arrested, not catered to.

Context does matter, let me break it down for you: these are CHILDREN. YOU are an ADULT.

If telling a kid to go home because they are wearing clothing that could cause VIOLENCE/BLOODSHED at SCHOOL to erupt is wrong, then don't be a fucking parent or in charge of children ever because you are clueless.

This is exactly the same as kids wearing gang-related stuff etc. There is absolutely no need to increase the risk to children because some dummies want to make a lame-ass statement. Fuck their free speech. They don't have that right in school.

 

[Bessy67]

Context does matter, let me break it down for you: these are CHILDREN. YOU are an ADULT.

If telling a kid to go home because they are wearing clothing that could cause VIOLENCE/BLOODSHED at SCHOOL to erupt is wrong, then don't be a fucking parent or in charge of children ever because you are clueless.

This is exactly the same as kids wearing gang-related stuff etc. There is absolutely no need to increase the risk to children because some dummies want to make a lame-ass statement.

They're high schoolers, probably able to be tried as adults. And you equating a high schooler wearing a shirt with an American flag to a high schooler wearing gang relates stuff is insane. If an American flag is enough to make a student in an American high school violent that student should be expelled.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

They're high schoolers, probably able to be tried as adults. And you equating a high schooler wearing a shirt with an American flag to a high schooler wearing gang relates stuff is insane. If an American flag is enough to make a student in an American high school violent that student should be expelled.

"The context doesn't matter, because when you apply the context to the ruling then my argument is complete bollocks."

 

[WarMacheen]

Let's be real here. The concept that, "people just want the day off to get drunk" is applicable to every holiday, including Veterans Day.

Why this keeps getting brought up as though it has any relevance in this case is beyond me.

It has relevance because I believe most people know what the usual holidays are about. As I said, when May 5th comes around and you see people celebrating, ask them why they are celebrating. Holidays are for many, an excuse to drink and party, though I would venture to say most people know what Veterans day in the US is about.

 

[TS-08]

Context does matter, let me break it down for you: these are CHILDREN. YOU are an ADULT.

If telling a kid to go home because they are wearing clothing that could cause VIOLENCE/BLOODSHED at SCHOOL to erupt is wrong, then don't be a fucking parent or in charge of children ever because you are clueless.

This is exactly the same as kids wearing gang-related stuff etc. There is absolutely no need to increase the risk to children because some dummies want to make a lame-ass statement. Fuck their free speech. They don't have that right in school.

Kids do have free speech rights in school, it's just that it has more limitations/exceptions than, say, free speech on a public sidewalk or even a public university campus.

 

[Terrell]

They're high schoolers, probably able to be tried as adults. And you equating a high schooler wearing a shirt with an American flag to a high schooler wearing gang relates stuff is insane. If an American flag is enough to make a student in an American high school violent that student should be expelled.

Well, without context, those things are to be considered equal. Perhaps you should decide whether or not context matters before you continue with the discussion.

 

[No Love]

They're high schoolers, probably able to be tried as adults. And you equating a high schooler wearing a shirt with an American flag to a high schooler wearing gang relates stuff is insane. If an American flag is enough to make a student in an American high school violent that student should be expelled.

I think you need to check and make sure there isn't a wireless keyboard secretly hooked up to your computer because someone is writing some really stupid shit on your end.

 

[Bessy67]

Well, without context, those things are to be considered equal. Perhaps you should decide whether or not context matters before you continue with the discussion.

The "context" was that there had been past violence at the school.

I think you need to check and make sure there isn't a wireless keyboard secretly hooked up to your computer because someone is writing some really stupid shit on your end.

If you could explain what problem you have with my opinion rather than ad hominems that would be great.

 

[Brakke]

They're high schoolers, probably able to be tried as adults. And you equating a high schooler wearing a shirt with an American flag to a high schooler wearing gang relates stuff is insane. If an American flag is enough to make a student in an American high school violent that student should be expelled.

You're coming at this from only one angle. As though the concern is the Hispanic students are going to pop off at the sight of an American flag. Clearly the flag is being flown antagonistically, the white kids are being nativist and expressing clear hate and derision toward the Other. If you go and try and start a fight it's fair to hold you culpable for a fight breaking out. The concern is about inciting violence. It isn't the flag alone that threatened to incite violence here, it was the manner in which it was flown.

If I wore an American flag shirt on the street living my life it would be crazy to consider that somehow on a level with flying gang signs. At that school, with those kids, it's fair to say they were flying the flag in a way consistent with flying gang signs.

 

[AlexBasch]

Man, as a mexican I always wonder why Americans believe that Cinco de Mayo is like the Mexican Christmas or something.

Over here it's just an important date in our history when the Battle of Puebla was won and General Ignacio Zaragoza practically told the French empire to go fuck itself.

Sure, it's a holiday and all, but meeting Americans and telling them that we don't go nuts about it it's like when you tell kids that Santa isn't real.

 

[KHarvey16]

The "context" was that there had been past violence at the school.


If you could explain what problem you have with my opinion rather than ad hominems that would be great.

That past violence involved patriotism and patriotic symbolism being misused to antagonize another group of students. Frankly I see it as the school and the courts protecting the stars and stripes from misappropriation by these ignorant whippersnappers.

 

[Cipherr]

Man, as a mexican I always wonder why Americans believe that Cinco de Mayo is like the Mexican Christmas or something.

Over here it's just an important date in our history when the Battle of Puebla was won and General Ignacio Zaragoza practically told the French empire to go fuck itself.

Sure, it's a holiday and all, but meeting Americans and telling them that we don't go nuts about it it's like when you tell kids that Santa isn't real.

I wonder how many of us even know what the holiday is about. We celebrated it in school and thats how I learned about it. Loved it to death because there was no school work in most classes, just food and other stuff. At that point and at that age, I didnt care what the holiday was about, as long as we didnt have assignments in 6 of the 8 classes for that day.

 

[Bessy67]

That past violence involved patriotism and patriotic symbolism being misused to antagonize another group of students. Frankly I see it as the school and the courts protecting the stars and stripes from misappropriation by these ignorant whippersnappers.

How is wearing an American flag t-shirt antagonistic? So what if someone wears it on a Mexican holiday? If all it takes to set you off is seeing someone wearing an American flag t-shirt you have the problem, not the t-shirt wearer.

 

[Brakke]

How is wearing an American flag t-shirt antagonistic? So what if someone wears it on a Mexican holiday? If all it takes to set you off is seeing someone wearing an American flag t-shirt you have the problem, not the t-shirt wearer.

Buddy. It isn't the case that "all it took to set off violence was seeing the American flag". What set off violence in the past was people wearing the American flag AND ALSO trying to pick a fight.

Man, as a mexican I always wonder why Americans believe that Cinco de Mayo is like the Mexican Christmas or something.

Over here it's just an important date in our history when the Battle of Puebla was won and General Ignacio Zaragoza practically told the French empire to go fuck itself.

Sure, it's a holiday and all, but meeting Americans and telling them that we don't go nuts about it it's like when you tell kids that Santa isn't real.

I think it's important over here because by whatever quirk it's the only one we got that gets recognized and is about Mexico or Mexicans at all. Yeah, I think it'd be cool if we had a holiday directed toward Cesar Chavez or something instead, but absent a "proper" or more emotionally-resonant holiday taking hold in the popular imagination, this is the one that gets some people flying Mexican flags and thinking at all about Mexico. Most people don't celebrate the military victory sure but even if it's just "Let's Think About Mexico Day" then it's still a cool thing to have.

 

[KHarvey16]

How is wearing an American flag t-shirt antagonistic? So what if someone wears it on a Mexican holiday? If all it takes to set you off is seeing someone wearing an American flag t-shirt you have the problem, not the t-shirt wearer.

It's almost as if you aren't reading the context you've been offered multiple times. Multiple smart adults with law degrees and many years of experience discussed this and came to a conclusion that you can read about and in all of that you can find answers.

 

[No Love]

It's almost as if you aren't reading the context you've been offered multiple times. Multiple smart adults with law degrees and many years of experience discussed this and came to a conclusion that you can read about and in all of that you can find answers.

Honestly, just give up. He keeps going in circles and is just trying to get people worked up. He's clueless.

 

[Bessy67]

Buddy. It isn't the case that "all it took to set off violence was seeing the American flag". What set off violence in the past was people wearing the American flag AND ALSO trying to pick a fight.

Where in the OP or the post I quoted does it say the people with the American flag shirts were attempting to start fights? I don't see it there.

 

[foxtrot3d]

How is that not a violation of free speech?

An American flag should never be considered a violence-inciting symbol within the United States. They basically put it on the same level of as a swastika.

Idiotic ruling.

Your First Amendment rights are not absolute, they diminish significantly at public schools. How do you think High Schools enforce dress codes?

 

[AlexBasch]

I wonder how many of us even know what the holiday is about. We celebrated it in school and thats how I learned about it. Loved it to death because there was no school work in most classes, just food and other stuff. At that point and at that age, I didnt care what the holiday was about, as long as we didnt have assignments in 6 of the 8 classes for that day.

It's even funnier because when the French won the rematch, not only Mexico lost, but the government had to flee to the north and The Empire named Maximiliano as the Emperor of Mexico for a couple of years.

I'm no military expert but we might have lost because our homeboy MVP Zaragoza dude got typhoidea and died a few days later after the first Battle of Puebla.

So in a way, it's a "we won that battle but got our asses kicked way harder in the second one". Probably it's why it's just a general, but not federal holiday, don't really know about that.

I think it's important over here because by whatever quirk it's the only one we got that gets recognized and is about Mexico or Mexicans at all. Yeah, I think it'd be cool if we had a holiday directed toward Cesar Chavez or something instead, but absent a "proper" or more emotionally-resonant holiday taking hold in the popular imagination, this is the one that gets some people flying Mexican flags and thinking at all about Mexico. Most people don't celebrate the military victory sure but even if it's just "Let's Think About Mexico Day" then it's still a cool thing to have.

Yeah, I'm not "against celebrating Cinco de Mayo". It's just that as a Mexican born and raised (not Mexican-American), it's kinda odd to see how much of a deal that holiday is over there in the USA.

I mean, we have Grito de Dolores in September 16, which is actually a big holiday in Mexico with partying and drinking, our media even goes "Mexicans celebrate Independence Day around the world" bits on the news and papers. But Cinco de Mayo? It's just a mostly-free day without banks and other services. That's it.

 

[AlexBasch]

Sorry, double post, and I was kinda getting offtopic. Just wanted to post my opinion on the whole Cinco de Mayo deal.

 

[Brakke]

Where in the OP or the post I quoted does it say the people with the American flag shirts were attempting to start fights? I don't see it there.

On this very page, Gentleman Jack quoted from and linked to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that the Supremes basically agreed with here. You can read that.

A bunch of white kids flew an American flag and antagonized Mexican students on Cinco De Mayo in 2009, then wore shirts in 2010 in the same antagonistic spirit.

From the 2009 incident,

When Assistant Principal Miguel Rodriguez told the student to stop using profane language, the student said, “But Rodriguez, they are racist. They are being racist. F*** them white boys."

The Mexican students were not mad about the flag as some abstract concept, they were mad at white kids being racist. Presumably, the Mexican students are no generally inclined to offense at the sight of the American flag. They're--rightly, I think--offended at the sight of white kids antagonizing them.

 

[Bessy67]

On this very page, Gentleman Jack quoted from and linked to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that the Supremes basically agreed with here. You can read that.

A bunch of white kids flew an American flag and antagonized Mexican students on Cinco De Mayo in 2009, then wore shirts in 2010 in the same antagonistic spirit.

From the 2009 incident,



The Mexican students were not mad about the flag as some abstract concept, they were mad at white kids being racist. Presumably, the Mexican students are no generally inclined to offense at the sight of the American flag. They're--rightly, I think--offended at the sight of white kids antagonizing them.

From the text in the 2009 incident both sides were exchanging profanities and threats and both sides had flags displayed. And if having an American flag displayed is considered antagonistic, why isn't having a Mexican flag displayed considered the same?

 

[Gentleman Jack]

From the text in the 2009 incident both sides were exchanging profanities and threats and both sides had flags displayed. And if having an American flag displayed is considered antagonistic, why isn't having a Mexican flag displayed considered the same?

Because it was a school-sponsored Cinco de Mayo event, and the students with the red white and blue were specifically there with those symbols and chants to be as obnoxious as possible.

 

[Brakke]

From the text in the 2009 incident both sides were exchanging profanities and threats and both sides had flags displayed. And if having an American flag displayed is considered antagonistic, why isn't having a Mexican flag displayed considered the same?

Flying a Mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo is considered antagonistic. But only by racists.

The 9th Circuit is smarter than you. The Supreme Court is smarter than you. They've spent more time thinking about this than you have. They're much much more familiar with the facts than you are. And they have more influence and power than you. You might try and listen to them. There is zero possible chance that whatever question about fairness that occurs to you sitting at your computer right now didn't also occur to the Court.

I'm done trying to explain this to you.

 

[Fj0823]

This is actually a great way to summarize what the problem here is.

Indeed it is.

 

[timetokill]

That isn't the ruling.

People keep using the word context but some don't seem to want to listen. Do you imagine the flag was removed from the flag pole outside of the school? If not, why wasn't it? The answer is important.

Because the kids didn't decide to circle around the flagpole and chant "USA! USA!" while saluting it?

But maybe that's what they'll do now. And if they do, do you think they should pull down the flag because kids are using it to "incite?"

Or should the children be punished, instead of forcing people to obscure images of the US flag in the US?

 

[BPoole]

Banning the American Flag in America under any context is idiotic.

 

[royalan]

Banning the American Flag in America under any context is idiotic.

Then thank god that's not what happened here.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

What were the kids doing at the event