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[Deleted member 47027]

I disagree! I feel like a cheat day (no more than once every 30 days) helps me break through plateaus. Don't know why, but it's like you reset or something.

With keto or another diet? I find any cheat RUINS my focus to the point where I just...it m ight as well be a cheat month if I do that.

 

[rtcn63]

That's the thing. A lotta people hear low carb and think high protein. That's wrong. It ain't high protein. It is high fat. You'll eat exactly as much protein as you need, and nearly all the rest of your daily kcal intake should come from fat. Fat should be the primary source of calories.

For some reason, this gets glossed over a lot.

The explanation is gluconeogenesis or whatever.

Once again, wouldn't that be contextual? Different people have different protein needs. Athletes require more, especially during a cut, for example.

Unless you mean that's just how "low carb" diets have normally been advertised.

 

[genjiZERO]

I've never "dieted" but I lived on white rice, eggs and vegetables (I basically made fried rice every day) for about 4 months and lost 25lbs in the process. It was nuts. I went back to my high school weight.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Maybe you're right, at least without specific context. I know that if you're lifting, in a calorie deficit, and are trying to prevent significant muscle loss, high protein is recommended.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/ketogenic-diets-high-fat-or-high-protein-qa.html/

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html/

Any diet that eliminates carbs is going to be high in protein by default, unless you're just drinking oil down or something.

It really shouldn't be something you focus on. If you're eating meat, eggs, fish, cheese, etc. regularly, you're going to be getting more than enough protein.

 

[Naked Snake]

Everyone is different, because bacteria.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Everyone is different

Yes, that really does go without saying. We can still discuss certain universals or at least things that apply to large segments of the population.

 

[rtcn63]

It really shouldn't be something you focus on. If you're eating meat, eggs, fish, cheese, etc. regularly, you're going to be getting more than enough protein.

It can be if, once again, context demands it. If you're a lifter/athlete and are trying to minimize muscle loss during a caloric deficit, you may have to focus on protein. And yes, you may want to calculate how much you need in case you're current diet doesn't have enough, so you can alter it or supplement.

I honestly don't see how this is confusing?

 

[vas_a_morir]

With keto or another diet? I find any cheat RUINS my focus to the point where I just...it m ight as well be a cheat month if I do that.

With Keto.

Bro, I feel ya. I think if you feel like you don't have the discipline to have a cheat meal and walk away, then don't do it. I do NOT have the discipline to go to a restaurant and not splurge. So, I don't go to them. In 5 months I have not eaten at a restaurant but twice. The first time I ate broiled Lobster, Scallops, and Shrimp. The second time, I ate at a San Diego-style Taco spot, at about 30 carbs in the meal. That was what I deemed as my cheat meal for a 60 day period. Discipline. When you see the big 30 coming up, you don't fuck around anymore.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

It can be if, once again, context demands it. If you're a lifter/athlete and are trying to minimize muscle loss during a calorie deficit, you may have to focus on protein. And yes, you may want to calculate how much you need in case you're current diet doesn't have enough, so you can alter it or supplement.

I honestly don't see how this is confusing?

Sorry, I tend to talk within the context of normal folks who work a day job. Professional lifters and athletes typically know what works for them already, in my experience, so I find it rather pointless to even discuss them.

 

[entremet]

With keto or another diet? I find any cheat RUINS my focus to the point where I just...it m ight as well be a cheat month if I do that.

This is where having some cooking skills helps.

I'm not low carb, keto, or paleo, but my diet is basically a paleo style one with white rice, sourdough bread, beans, lentils, and dairy.

But I do use a lot of recipes from paleo sites and cookbooks since they're whole food recipes, unless you do the paleo baking stuff with nut flours, which I don't.

For example, I love french fries, but instead of getting a helping of deep fried Omega 6 fats, which are showed to cause inflammation in excess, I do oven fries, in coconut oil, which doesn't doesn't have the health issues that omega 6 oils have, and sprinkle sea salt.

It scratches that itch without the processed garbage veggie oils.

If I have a sweet tooth, dark chocolate or full fat greet yogurt with berries and real maple syrup.

Compare that to something like ice cream and the calorie difference is huge! The full fat yogurt and fiber in the berries satiate me, so I'm not coming for more, unlike ice cream.

 

[Coriolanus]

Once again, wouldn't that be contextual? Different people have different protein needs. Athletes require more, especially during a cut, for example.

Unless you mean that's just how "low carb" diets have normally been advertised.

From your link

After much toing and froing and research had been done it was eventually found that a protein intake of about 1.5 g/kg of lean body mass (LBM; note that researchers actually used Ideal Body Weight but this is a rough proxy for LBM) was necessary to spare LBM losses in a non-training obese individual consuming low calories.

This is about double the DRI for protein (at 0.8 g/kg) at maintenance calories. So for an overweight individual at say 200 pounds and 30% body fat (this would give them an LBM of 140 lbs or 63 kg), that would be a protein intake of 95 grams of protein per day. Please note that this value is simply a minimum and dieters may still find that higher protein intakes are beneficial from a hunger blunting effect or what have you (see below).

While less data on this group is available, bodybuilders and athletes have long used a protein intake of 2.2 g/kg (1 g/lb) lean body mass as a generalized intake level and as folks get very lean, intakes of 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of lean body mass may be required to stave off muscle loss while dieting. In some very extreme cases, such as the near protein only diet approach of my own Rapid Fat Loss Handbook even higher protein intakes may be required for very lean individuals.

So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to a high of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilders with middle ground values being found in between those two extremes. You’ll note that I didn’t put any of those values in terms of percentages for reasons discussed in Diet Percentages: Part 1 and Diet Percentages: Part 2.

Even assuming that you've, like, 80kg of lean mass (at which point, kudos, for real), at 3g protein per kg, you'd still be ingesting only 960kcal from protein. Imma ballpark assuming 6ft height and say that 2000kcal would be under the BMR for a person like that, so even at that point, pumping way more protein per kg than what is considered standard, you'd still be able to meet a scenario where most of your calories are coming from fat.

Obv if you go by 2.2g/kg then the disparity is even more evident.

But yes, my chief concern is with people going high protein, low fat, low carb, which is a dangerous mix.

 

[rtcn63]

Professional lifters and athletes typically know what works for them already, in my experience, so I find it rather pointless to even discuss them.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say misinformation is still prevalent in non-professional, moderately experienced circles, at least if we're talking people on the internet. That's also why blanket statements may not always be the way to go in these sort of discussions.

But yes, my chief concern is with people going high protein, low fat, low carb, which is a dangerous mix.

As a general rule, I agree, this is probably something that should not be attempted. But, and it is a big but, if you think you know what you're doing, it is feasible, and may be required for people trying to lose weight quickly who are already in/near the single digit bodyfats. See Rapid Fat Loss diet or other variations.

Or maybe I'm wrong, I'm going to refresh myself on the subject(s).

 

[IceCold]

Why would cardio be any more advantageous than weightlifting, as far as keeping and increasing muscle mass is concerned?

It isn't. But I think cardio is good for endurance. Weight lifting is good for bones/muscles/nervous system, etc. but I think biking (not just commuting in the city but more like mountain biking is really good and helps in those areas too). Swimming too. I say this because it doesn't matter how much I lift, if I feel like I get out of breath easily from running/swimming/biking I feel like I'm not in shape. Besides, it's good to keep things varied and interesting. I'd rather bike outside than be stuck in a gym indoors for example. In the end I don't think it matters that much as long as you move. People have only been hitting the gym recently anyways. This gym rat lifestyle is very new.

Also running is only bad for your joints because people don't run properly and run on asphalt/hard surfaces. Shoes have the side effect of making us run in a way that causes us to land on our heels first. This isn't good. If you run without shoes you'll notice that you don't run like that, you'll naturally land your feet more parallel to the ground because landing on your heels fuckin hurts. This makes sense because humans are made for long distance running. Few species asaik can beat us when it comes to that due to our bipedal running. You have/had tribes that run marathons everyday to catch their prey for example. Their joints seem to be doing fine.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

With Keto.

Bro, I feel ya. I think if you feel like you don't have the discipline to have a cheat meal and walk away, then don't do it. I do NOT have the discipline to go to a restaurant and not splurge. So, I don't go to them. In 5 months I have not eaten at a restaurant but twice. The first time I ate broiled Lobster, Scallops, and Shrimp. The second time, I ate at a San Diego-style Taco spot, at about 30 carbs in the meal. That was what I deemed as my cheat meal for a 60 day period. Discipline. When you see the big 30 coming up, you don't fuck around anymore.

That's how you do it my friend. It's crazy how many years I gave no fucks. Now I look critically at EVERY meal.

 

[vas_a_morir]

That's how you do it my friend. It's crazy how many years I gave no fucks. Now I look critically at EVERY meal.

And it's a lifestyle change. I can't go back to eating baked goods and processed fried snacks with any regularity. I go through the day sometimes and say to myself "wow, look at all these things that I would just eat without thinking about it. "

I'm glad my BMI is no longer overweight, but it's not enough to just not be 'fat.' I want to be thin to the point I go to the beach and walk with sincere swagger.

 

[Pimpwerx]

You have to manage calories of course, but Atkins works. PEACE

 

[ILoveBish]

All this keto love. GAF doing well.

 

[Naked Snake]

You have to manage calories of course, but Atkins works. PEACE

Don't calories usually manage themselves when you go low/moderate carb?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Don't calories usually manage themselves when you go low carb?

Easier to eat less, calorically, on low carb but you can overshoot it by going into maintenance levels, neither gaining or losing weight. Even possible to gain weight but requires you to eat a ridiculous amount of fat.

 

[ILoveBish]

Easier to eat less, calorically, on low carb but you can overshoot it by going into maintenance levels, neither gaining or losing weight. Even possible to gain weight but requires you to eat a ridiculous amount of fat.

Or eat too much protein, which then turns to carbs. You don't want to go too nuts on the protein.