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[blu]

Something which surprised me re the switch (which I predominantly play undocked) when I docked it to an old Toshiba which shows detailed reports about the input signal: when set to output RGB full range, the signal is actually 30bit, 10 bits per channel.

I wonder if devs can make use of that, e.g. make 10-10-10-2 render targets that get sent to the receiver in 30bit format. Needless to say, input from devs will be appreciated ; )

 

[lastplace09]

That's great and all, but I have no idea what any of that means. Regardless, I love the way the games look on my tv!

 

[Neiteio]

I wonder how many Pikmin are running around inside each Switch

 

[blu]

That's great and all, but I have no idea what any of that means. Regardless, I love the way the games look on my tv!

If actually exposed to the devs via the API, games can show more colours on TV sets that handle 30bit color.

 

[xxracerxx]

I wonder how many Pikmin are running around inside each Switch

At least 45, but 15 of them are managers and just sit around the coffee station bitchin' about the work.

 

[JimJamJones]

 

[Jazzem]

Folks not knowing it's best to set the Switch to full RGB* is the modern equivalent of PAL Wiis being set to 50Hz

*TV pending, though more likely than not it's supported

 

[Shifty]

Well you see GAF, in computer speak, color is stored as 'bits'. So you get a little bit of orange, a little bit of red, a big bit of magenta, and so forth.
These bits of color are collected together on a virtual canvas called a render target, which you can think of as a piece of paper but for computers.

To put it simply, the developers need to tell the GPU how many bits of color they need when this piece of paper is being manufactured inside its virtual paper mill, so they can display the right sort of shades for their game.
For instance, you wouldn't want more than grey, green and brown for something like Quake 1, otherwise you'd end up wasting ink when the console faxes that piece of paper over to the display via HDMI for screen printing.

TL;DR this means that, on some TVs, the Switch can display up to 30 separate colors! Isn't that great?

 

[BurritoBushido]

What?

 

[MCN]

That's Numberwang!

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Finally, HDR for Switch.

Someone alert Kotaku.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

It means the Switch can output 1024*1024*1024 = 1,073,741,824 (over 1 billion) different colors.

As opposed to regular (24bit) color output, which is 256*256*256 = 16,777,216 (over 16 million) colors.

 

[Shifty]

Seriously though, what happened to the crowd that was going on about HDR 4:4:2 chroma subsampling and the like a couple of months ago?

CluelessGAF out in force here.

 

[The Main Event]

It means the Switch can output 1024*1024*1024 = 1,073,741,824 (over 1 billion) different colors.

As opposed to regular (24bit) color output, which is 256*256*256 = 16,777,216 (over 16 million) colors.

Can the human eye even capable of seeing a billion color?

 

[Shifty]

Can a human eye even capable of seeing a billion color?

16 million is more cinematic.

 

[Meffer]

Simply means more colors and less crushed blacks.

 

[Joey Ravn]

So that's what's making the Switch continuously send a signal to my monitor while it's asleep, prompting it to switch to the Switch (NPI) and ignore the current input it's set to!

I know this has nothing to do with this issue, but I'll keep bitching about it until it's fixed. Or at least until I can fully turn off my Switch with a Pro Controller :/

 

[Tarnpanzer]

It means the Switch can output 1024*1024*1024 = 1,073,741,824 (over 1 billion) different colors.

As opposed to regular (24bit) color output, which is 256*256*256 = 16,777,216 (over 16 million) colors.

 

[BigEmil]

So its just Full RGB mode rather than Limited?

 

[dolabla]

I wish they would fix the Switch home menus, Nintendo store, etc, from running at 720p when docked. The menus look so much sharper when you set the Switch output to 720p as opposed to 1080p. I'm guessing there's some type of double scaling going on with the Switch + my TV where it makes 1080p look muddy and worse.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Simply means more colors and less crushed blacks.

It also means less color banding. Which, in my opinion, is a way worse and more noticable problem than crushed blacks (which, while terrible, is not necessarily as noticeable as color banding).

EDIT:

More available color means less crushed blacks and less noticeable borders in otherwise fluid color gradients.

 

[Thraktor]

That is surprising. I wonder if it's actually available to devs, or if it's just some quirk about the HDMI chipset they use in the dock.

For TVs with 10-bit panels (i.e. true HDR displays) it would allow better colour reproduction, reduced banding, etc. It wouldn't necessarily give the increased dynamic range of HDR, but it suggests that Nintendo could allow devs to implement full HDR support if they wanted to (once you've got 10-bit colour channels it's just a matter of what colour space you're working in).

 

[Datschge]

The responses so far make me think technical threads need some modem speed for brains warning in the title.

On topic, nice that Switch appears to support HDMI 1.3 Deep Color. Now I want someone to check if it also makes effective use of it or if the 2 additional bits per color are effectively unused.

 

[stan423321]

So that's what's making the Switch continuously send a signal to my monitor while it's asleep, prompting it to switch to the Switch (NPI) and ignore the current input it's set to!

I know this has nothing to do with this issue, but I'll keep bitching about it until it's fixed. Or at least until I can fully turn off my Switch with a Pro Controller :/

You can. Just throw the Pro Controller at your fuse box.

So its just Full RGB mode rather than Limited?

Not really. If bit count is like density of marks of the ruler, full/limited RGB is about length of the ruler (or alternatively ignoring side parts of it in limited mode).

 

[Vena]

The responses so far make me think technical threads need some modem speed for brains warning in the title.

On topic, nice that Switch appears to support HDMI 1.3 Deep Color. Now I want someone to check if it also makes effective use of it or if the 2 additional bits per color are effectively unused.

Does Maxwell-standard Shield support Deep Color (I believe it does)? Curious if this is an addition to or just a par-for the chipset.

 

[Joey Ravn]

You can. Just throw the Pro Controller at your fuse box.

Fuck. I need to install a fuse box then. And to think people told me console gaming was a "set-it-and-forget-it" deal!

 

[blu]

So its just Full RGB mode rather than Limited?

No, Full Range means each channel uses the full range of the scalar, e.g. for 8bit channels that would be [0, 255], where 0 is no intensity and 255 is full intensity for the given channel. 30bit color is orthogonal to that - it means channels have more bits - 10 bits in this case, which as already mentioned, is known as Deep Color in the HDMI specs. Basically more colours, less banding in the gradients, IFF usable by devs (which is what everybody keeps wondering about.)

 

[JetSetRadio]

That's not hdr.

 

[michaelius]

Interesting - so they could technically add 1080p HDR in the future like basic PS4 has.

 

[wildfire]

Seriously though, what happened to the crowd that was going on about HDR 4:4:2 chroma subsampling and the like a couple of months ago?

CluelessGAF out in force here.

The thread title isn't doing the topic any favors.

 

[Koren]

Can the human eye even capable of seeing a billion color?

That's not an issue of colors, but of brightness...

Side to side, colors in 24 bits, especially darker ones, can show some color banding (progressive changes of color/brightness aren't totally smooth). So you have benefits to use 10bits per channel.

Though Gamecube often compressed images into 18 bits (262144 "colors") and while it was definitively noticeable, people that weren't paying attention probably havent't really noticed it. So 24 bits is usually "enough" .

When you're not going for HDR, of course. In fact, side by side, you can distinguish far, far more than that, because the eye has a dynamic that is truly impressive. Thus HDR technology, that need a completely different way to represent colors/brightness.

(and since the definitive rule for colors/brightness for *CRT* only happened a couple years ago, when there was basically no more CRT, we can expect a long wait before they settle on a gamma replacement :/ )

 

[JetSetRadio]

Thread needs Jeff Rigby.

 

[blu]

Interesting - so they could technically add 1080p HDR in the future like basic PS4 has.

For proper HDR you'd need extra frame metadata, and that got introduced only with HDMI 2.0 - we have no evidence of that in the switch so far. 30bit-color is known as Deep Color and is what was observed on the switch, on an HDMI signalling level. We don't know if APIs expose Deep Color to the games.

 

[frankie_baby]

Does the LCD panel support it for undocked? Cos there really is something amazing about how the colours look on it

 

[Calm Mind]

Thread needs Jeff Rigby.

lol

 

[Aztechnology]

At the end of the day this is kind of a moot discussion as it's limited by the panel/display itself no? On the Switch itself at least. I imagine it's an 8bit IPS panel. Might be 8bit+FRC but I don't think so. Haven't really kept close tabs on it.

 

[wildfire]

At the end of the day this is kind of a moot discussion as it's limited by the panel/display itself no?

The op acknowledged that it depends on the display straight up.

It's clear with thee diverse array of displays today that the point isn't moot. It's a potential selling point for people who want that feature and clearly do with the strong sales of full color and now HDR displays.

 

[Aztechnology]

The op acknowledged that it depends on the display straight up.

It's clear with thee diverse array of displays today that the point isn't moot. It's a potential selling point for people who want that feature and clearly do with the strong sales of full color and now HDR displays.

Right, I edited my post shortly after, to clear up misconceptions caused by my seemingly straightforward statement/question. But what I meant was, in the end, isn't the decision mainly tied to the display of the Switch itself? I just don't really see support happening much beyond the capabilities of the handheld, as much as I'd like to. I have a 10bit 4k HDR TV after all and was disappointed when they announced it wouldn't support HDR.

 

[marrec]

Thread needs Jeff Rigby.

Ya I want Jeff to explain why this means the Switch is getting 4K Bluray support in a patch