Haha, no idea who you could be talking about here.
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Switzerland-GAF |OT| If the Swedes can do something, so can we!
- Thread starter Kenka
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Haha, no idea who you could be talking about here.
Pretty sure he means Christoph Blocher.
I don't think that they are ignored, people just don't care and I mean this in the best way.
Hans Peter Portmann head of the committee against the marriage initiative for example sits in the parliament for the FDP, is working for a bank and is openly gay. But nobody actually cares. So are several other people in the SVP, SP or Green party. The Christian party like the CVP or the EVP are actually the only ones still talking about this topic.
I was born in a mountain village, close to the place Toni Brunner is from (head of the SVP). Huge majority of the people there voted yes for the Durchsetzungsinitative, but even in this place there are openly gay and lesbian couples and they can openly be themselves and nobody is actually saying anything.
Yes, we still have a lot of ground to cover, but in all my 40 years I am living now in Switzerland I have never witnessed an anti-gay sentiment or slur even here in the most conservative part, where I am from. So I don't know why LGBT community does not start an initiative to change some things. I don't think there would be a lot of opposition, at least not from the SVP or the FDP. Maybe the CVP and EVP would be against it, but the last time those two tried something like legislation against LGBT on state level, they failed pretty terribly.
I live near Zurich and this couldn't be further from what I've heard/seen personally or from my LGBT friends.
Well, there is one problem and in big cities, but even bringing up that topic will only end in a clusterfuck and better not even starting that discussion. And I only heard it not witnessed it, because I am more of a rural person myself. Honestly I don’t even have an idea how to solve that problem, because whatever you bring up, you will look stupid either way.
I'm sorry to combobreak the political discussion regarding important topics (among which are LGBT-Rights), but I need to vent and hear you guys' opinion.
Short warning, wall of text coming your way. To sum it up, it's about integration, parallel societies and, last but not least, comedy.
Just so you can have a mental image: I'm 25, male, foreigner, but I was born and raised in this country. I speak Swiss German perfectly, I have a very slight Schaffhauser accent (pity me). I don't look Swiss, but I'm white, and just by talking to me you wouldn't know I'm not from Switzerland. I live in a village near Zurich, which is the center of my day to day life.
Recently, one thing has come to my attention, more or less by accident: Regarding each and every single one of my Swiss friends, I'm their only foreign friend. (I have a circle of friends that's around half swiss, half foreign). I asked every single one of my Swiss friends, and some friends that I know through them. I was a bit thrown off for a few days, because you can call it an anecdotal evidence as much as you want, but I started to realize that there are strong signs that when it comes to close friends, the swiss want to be among other swiss people. You can try to turn it the other way around and say foreigners just want to stay among foreigners, but that wouldn't make much sense: A man from Cameroon has about the same things in common with an albanian guy as with a swiss guy.
So it boils down to this: In the last 2-3 months, I've come to the realization that most swiss people I know have an almost exclusively swiss circle of friends, and most foreigners, which includes half-swiss with visible foreign traits, have almost exclusively foreign friends. Switzerland is the poster child of integration everywhere where statistics matter. Unemployment rates, violence, educational level, all of that. Those are the things the state can (try to) control. But you can't change the mindset of people regarding foreigners, you can't change the reservations (Berührungsängste) of people, and it seems to me that the swiss society as a whole, even in the most metropolitan city of Switzerland (Zurich) is deeply divided. One has foreigners as neighbours, coworkers, service providers, customers, whatever. But they don't have them as close friends. The worst part of it is that I understand the older generations, but I'm friends with people who went to schools with a lot of foreigners - and now, age 25, when social life is a bit dominated by your worklife (where you're usually hesitant to make close friends due to a professional relationship), they have only swiss friends. If you ask me, that is majorly depressing.
Now you may say "but they have you, so obviously they don't have reservations towards foreigners". Here's a sentence I've heard many times in my life, but only recently started to take offence in: "Ja, aber du bisch eine vo eus."
This is why I emphasized that I speak swiss german perfectly - I think it's one of the keys to social integration. I have no foreign accent, I don't have any albanian, serbian, turkish, italian or portuguese features or traits - you would never guess where I'm from because you can't categorize my looks (and due to a genetic disfunction I'm whiter than most swiss). This makes me a blank sheet and leaves little to no room for stereotypes. At least that's my opinion. Of course it feels nice to be accepted ("eine vo eus"), but I'm not swiss, I am a foreigner and it's part of my identity, and you can't cherrypick the foreigners you like and make them swiss. That leaves a mental image of a pool filled with people that are not 'like us'.
I want to back this up a bit more and simultaneously vent about a second topic: Swiss comedy, and the lack of thereof.
Swiss mainstream comedy is extremely heavyhanded, unwitty and you can always see the jokes they want to make from more than a mile away. You don't need to compare it to US/UK comedy to see that swiss comedy is sub-par. Even Germany, which internationally has the image of being the least funny country, has formats that meet the minimum requirements of wittiness and sophistication - jokes that catch you by surprise, that you can't, as I mention before, see coming from a mile away. Switzerland's only noteworthy exception to the rule is perhaps Marco Rima.
What I've written above about comedy is actually just a side rant, but there's a reason why I bring it into the equation: If the Swiss love to laugh about one thing on TV, it's a specific type of foreigners that gets the laughs over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdA42NYPRXI
and over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLin3IJ4ios
and over again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuUEJi6Ue0U
speaking of that last video, let's look at Bendrit Bajra - an albanian who makes fun of albanian stereotypes and boom, he's a star overnight. Gets invited to shows, participates in reality projects, and gets invited to create his own show on 20min.ch called "Swiss Mix" that - again - mainly makes fun of foreigner stereotypes. I'm not trying to say that 3+, 20min or SRF are actually racist - they just want the people that sell. And Bendrit apparently sold, and still sells. The problem? All Albanians I know dislike Bendrit, so it's fair to assume that his target group... is Swiss. So he's basically the media's carte blanche to make fun of Albanians and foreigners in general - because hey, he can, he's a foreigner himself.
He is still not the worst offender, though. Müslüm, who recently got his own show on SRF 1 and the SRF's Youtube presence, takes the crown in all respect. The man behind the character, of turkish origin himself, is the master of monetization of racially stereotypical comedy. The name "Müslüm" itself is supposed to tell you two things: 1) He's a muslim. 2) He's probably of turkish origin due to the ü's.
In the title alone, not one opportunity is wasted to communicate to potential audiences who's being made fun of. This tendency is upheld when you look at the presentation of the character itself. The distinguished bad hair, unshaved/untended facial hair, backwardly monobrow and unfashionable clothes all reference a very, very specific negative stereotype about foreigners, in this case, the 'backwards turkish muslims'. Same with the way he speaks - the accent is clearly fake and references the same stereotype. Now, you can probably guess the content, the unique selling point of the show. That's right - how weird foreigners are. I'm not even turkish or muslim, but even I am offended by this. Because this shit sells, and apparently it sells well, which means people are watching it, laughing about it, which is patronizing for every single foreigner living in this country.
Please, feel free to argue if you feel differently - I actively want to hear your opinion. Am I being hard on Switzerland? I love this country and I love living in it, but when you love something, you are not allowed to close your eyes on certain aspects.
Short warning, wall of text coming your way. To sum it up, it's about integration, parallel societies and, last but not least, comedy.
Just so you can have a mental image: I'm 25, male, foreigner, but I was born and raised in this country. I speak Swiss German perfectly, I have a very slight Schaffhauser accent (pity me). I don't look Swiss, but I'm white, and just by talking to me you wouldn't know I'm not from Switzerland. I live in a village near Zurich, which is the center of my day to day life.
Recently, one thing has come to my attention, more or less by accident: Regarding each and every single one of my Swiss friends, I'm their only foreign friend. (I have a circle of friends that's around half swiss, half foreign). I asked every single one of my Swiss friends, and some friends that I know through them. I was a bit thrown off for a few days, because you can call it an anecdotal evidence as much as you want, but I started to realize that there are strong signs that when it comes to close friends, the swiss want to be among other swiss people. You can try to turn it the other way around and say foreigners just want to stay among foreigners, but that wouldn't make much sense: A man from Cameroon has about the same things in common with an albanian guy as with a swiss guy.
So it boils down to this: In the last 2-3 months, I've come to the realization that most swiss people I know have an almost exclusively swiss circle of friends, and most foreigners, which includes half-swiss with visible foreign traits, have almost exclusively foreign friends. Switzerland is the poster child of integration everywhere where statistics matter. Unemployment rates, violence, educational level, all of that. Those are the things the state can (try to) control. But you can't change the mindset of people regarding foreigners, you can't change the reservations (Berührungsängste) of people, and it seems to me that the swiss society as a whole, even in the most metropolitan city of Switzerland (Zurich) is deeply divided. One has foreigners as neighbours, coworkers, service providers, customers, whatever. But they don't have them as close friends. The worst part of it is that I understand the older generations, but I'm friends with people who went to schools with a lot of foreigners - and now, age 25, when social life is a bit dominated by your worklife (where you're usually hesitant to make close friends due to a professional relationship), they have only swiss friends. If you ask me, that is majorly depressing.
Now you may say "but they have you, so obviously they don't have reservations towards foreigners". Here's a sentence I've heard many times in my life, but only recently started to take offence in: "Ja, aber du bisch eine vo eus."
This is why I emphasized that I speak swiss german perfectly - I think it's one of the keys to social integration. I have no foreign accent, I don't have any albanian, serbian, turkish, italian or portuguese features or traits - you would never guess where I'm from because you can't categorize my looks (and due to a genetic disfunction I'm whiter than most swiss). This makes me a blank sheet and leaves little to no room for stereotypes. At least that's my opinion. Of course it feels nice to be accepted ("eine vo eus"), but I'm not swiss, I am a foreigner and it's part of my identity, and you can't cherrypick the foreigners you like and make them swiss. That leaves a mental image of a pool filled with people that are not 'like us'.
I want to back this up a bit more and simultaneously vent about a second topic: Swiss comedy, and the lack of thereof.
Swiss mainstream comedy is extremely heavyhanded, unwitty and you can always see the jokes they want to make from more than a mile away. You don't need to compare it to US/UK comedy to see that swiss comedy is sub-par. Even Germany, which internationally has the image of being the least funny country, has formats that meet the minimum requirements of wittiness and sophistication - jokes that catch you by surprise, that you can't, as I mention before, see coming from a mile away. Switzerland's only noteworthy exception to the rule is perhaps Marco Rima.
What I've written above about comedy is actually just a side rant, but there's a reason why I bring it into the equation: If the Swiss love to laugh about one thing on TV, it's a specific type of foreigners that gets the laughs over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdA42NYPRXI
and over
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLin3IJ4ios
and over again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuUEJi6Ue0U
speaking of that last video, let's look at Bendrit Bajra - an albanian who makes fun of albanian stereotypes and boom, he's a star overnight. Gets invited to shows, participates in reality projects, and gets invited to create his own show on 20min.ch called "Swiss Mix" that - again - mainly makes fun of foreigner stereotypes. I'm not trying to say that 3+, 20min or SRF are actually racist - they just want the people that sell. And Bendrit apparently sold, and still sells. The problem? All Albanians I know dislike Bendrit, so it's fair to assume that his target group... is Swiss. So he's basically the media's carte blanche to make fun of Albanians and foreigners in general - because hey, he can, he's a foreigner himself.
He is still not the worst offender, though. Müslüm, who recently got his own show on SRF 1 and the SRF's Youtube presence, takes the crown in all respect. The man behind the character, of turkish origin himself, is the master of monetization of racially stereotypical comedy. The name "Müslüm" itself is supposed to tell you two things: 1) He's a muslim. 2) He's probably of turkish origin due to the ü's.
In the title alone, not one opportunity is wasted to communicate to potential audiences who's being made fun of. This tendency is upheld when you look at the presentation of the character itself. The distinguished bad hair, unshaved/untended facial hair, backwardly monobrow and unfashionable clothes all reference a very, very specific negative stereotype about foreigners, in this case, the 'backwards turkish muslims'. Same with the way he speaks - the accent is clearly fake and references the same stereotype. Now, you can probably guess the content, the unique selling point of the show. That's right - how weird foreigners are. I'm not even turkish or muslim, but even I am offended by this. Because this shit sells, and apparently it sells well, which means people are watching it, laughing about it, which is patronizing for every single foreigner living in this country.
Please, feel free to argue if you feel differently - I actively want to hear your opinion. Am I being hard on Switzerland? I love this country and I love living in it, but when you love something, you are not allowed to close your eyes on certain aspects.
I lost my friends due to depressions during my teens and was never able to make any new friends again as an adult (Swiss, now 28). Anecdotal too. It's mostly foreigners who want to talk to me without wanting to know directions or the time or if they are cranks. Everybody else acts like they have their head rammed up their arse.
And Swiss humor is like the only physical black hole in this solar system.
And Swiss humor is like the only physical black hole in this solar system.
<-that joke even proves my point. Amazing.
Moff
Member
I have tons of foreigner friends and had many foreigner girlfriends, many or most of them have the swiss passport by now, though. I agree with you that the language is super important, though. I don't think I could have friends or gilfriends who didn't speak perfect swiss german. maybe it's just schaffhausen, don't they marry cousins there?
I lived in a village in Schaffhausen from 92 to 2000, I've lived in the Canton of Zurich ever since.
I don't want to deny there are swiss people that have mostly foreign friends - I've met some of them personally. I also don't want to appear to be discriminating against the Swiss. I cannot emphasize that enough.
I'm sorry to hear that - but yeah, if you're not in university (and even there it's hard) or similar in that age, it's really tough to find friends in Switzerland. The one thing I can recommend though are Vereine - in this setting, you can make new friends with a bit of luck. Especially since usually all the members go have a beer after a meeting. At least it's like that with every single shooting club I've been in.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way about swiss comedy.
Moff
Member
I'm not disagreeing with you, we Swiss are very racist, I hear racist shit all the time, but you wanted anecdotal experiences and those are mine. but I'd say even generally the stigma is not that bad for women, having foreigner girlfriends is quite common, even among my more conservative buddies.
and yeah, swiss comedy is terrible. I think giaccobo was quite good with his old program, I never really loved the new one
and yeah, swiss comedy is terrible. I think giaccobo was quite good with his old program, I never really loved the new one
MasterOfPastures
Banned
Im starting to settle in and i want to branch out a bit in the zurich area. What are the cool spots to have a drink? Some place that's laid back without being a financial types hangabout.
Also, lets start discussing a gaf meet up as well. I need all the socializing I can get.
Also, lets start discussing a gaf meet up as well. I need all the socializing I can get.
Sidewinder
Member
You should all learn french, if you don't already speak it and watch romands comedy, the only foreigners they're laughing about are Schwiizerdütsche 
About the other points I can't really talk about it, as I have like two friends and I'm probably less integrated than somebody that can't speak a single word of any official languages (I'm a Swiss btw).
Most important after knowing a language is being part of a Verein.
Edit: Some interesting read about Swiss and why it's hard to make friends and what friendship means to us. I fit that description quite well, at least past me who wasn't a depressed pos.
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/19360772
About the other points I can't really talk about it, as I have like two friends and I'm probably less integrated than somebody that can't speak a single word of any official languages (I'm a Swiss btw).
Most important after knowing a language is being part of a Verein.
Edit: Some interesting read about Swiss and why it's hard to make friends and what friendship means to us. I fit that description quite well, at least past me who wasn't a depressed pos.
http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/story/19360772
You should all learn french, if you don't already speak it and watch romands comedy, the only foreigners they're laughing about are Schwiizerdütsche
About the other points I can't really talk about it, as I have like two friends and I'm probably less integrated than somebody that can't speak a single word of any official languages (I'm a Swiss btw).
Most important after knowing a language is being part of a Verein.
Gotta love 26 minutes
I loved Ursule Péclard, croque-mort from Prilly (which was extra funny to me since it's my town and my family name is very close to it)
Sidewinder
Member
Yeah 26 minutes is superb, "la soupe est pleine" on radio was too, Marie-Thérèse Porchet and especially François Silvant (RIP) is/was awesome too.
Total Birgit aka Frau Iseli was also funny on SRF.
As a kid moving from the french part to a rural town in central switzerland gave me a bit of a taste of "being considered foreign" the first few years.
In my experience, while people are not the most easily approachable here, once you've found a social circle it's not some fleeting thing, and at that point, origin doesn't really matter anymore.
Joining vereine and stuff definitely helps if you are totally new.
I think i saw a stat in the economist recently that 50% of freshly married couples are between a swiss and a "foreigner", so things seem to be moving in a more open direction, at least among the young.
In my experience, while people are not the most easily approachable here, once you've found a social circle it's not some fleeting thing, and at that point, origin doesn't really matter anymore.
Joining vereine and stuff definitely helps if you are totally new.
I think i saw a stat in the economist recently that 50% of freshly married couples are between a swiss and a "foreigner", so things seem to be moving in a more open direction, at least among the young.
So the new 50.- CHF has been unveiled, what's your take Schwiiz-GAF?
Release date is next week, Tuesday 12th April.
I quite like it. What doesn't convince me completely is probably the "globe with wind flows":
at a quick and distant look, it could resemble a ball of shit full of ants… (theme of the banknote is the nature).
source: nzz
Release date is next week, Tuesday 12th April.
I quite like it. What doesn't convince me completely is probably the "globe with wind flows":
at a quick and distant look, it could resemble a ball of shit full of ants… (theme of the banknote is the nature).
source: nzz
Glass Rebel
Member
I like it as well but not as much as the Manuela Pfrunder design that got #3 in that contest.
Manuela Pfrunder got second place and ultimately was allowed to design the new notes, despite the fact she came in second.
Still, I like the designs you posted more than the ones we're gonna get.
Glass Rebel
Member
Ah yes, that was a typo on my part. Too bad about that, I guess they wanted more colourful designs like the ones we have right now.
Hello!
Just in case anyone is interested in gaming, digitec have Xbox One's for 249CHF today : https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/produc...-raider-bundle-de-fr-it-game-consoles-5619700
Just in case anyone is interested in gaming, digitec have Xbox One's for 249CHF today : https://www.digitec.ch/en/s1/produc...-raider-bundle-de-fr-it-game-consoles-5619700
Softridge has e similar bundle with Gears, Rare Replay and Ori for the same price for quite a while now.
http://www.softridge.ch/ONE/Konsole...emium-Bundle-Bundle-Farbe-Black-XBox-One.aspx
Digitec like to sound cheaper than they are.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
Hey y'all. I have been at my new job for one month plus and I'm comfortably settled at my new apartment. So now its about time I reach out here and see who is willing for a meetup. Last one was in 2012, if google is correct.
For now, I want to measure interest and hear suggestions and ideas for places.
For now, I want to measure interest and hear suggestions and ideas for places.
Didn't realise there were games at it, didn't really want to be anywhere near cosplay though.
Missed the opportunity to meet Stewart from The Big Bang Theory.
Bunch of games, indies as well (was showing mine too)
Although this year they might've been too greedy with the floor space. Especially in the artist alley where it was deserted by the public and made some of my artist friends sad
Cosplayers were nice tho, high quality. People were very very polite, almost too much so
MasterOfPastures
Banned
I went this year, first time, on Thursday. A small convention, but hopefully it grows. Right now, the pot is way too big for seed, if you know what I mean.
On the meetup, we can probably all meet up on the epicenter of switzerland (Zurich). From there, hang out in an overpriced ramen shop, or go to an overpriced bar for some drinks, or some other overpriced activity.
On the meetup, we can probably all meet up on the epicenter of switzerland (Zurich). From there, hang out in an overpriced ramen shop, or go to an overpriced bar for some drinks, or some other overpriced activity.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
Sure thing. What ideas do you have?
I don't watch TV anymore so i have no clue what kind of show Deville is but good swiss comedy has always been sparse.
It exists, but not on a regular week by week basis.
Necron
Member
Giacobbo/Müller was the only good comedy show and that was satire. It's about the only thing we're good at in that regard.
Correction: The best Swiss comedy-show was definitely the... FUCK I forgot their name. They were a duo and used to do clips on TV as part of a different show. That was back in the 90's. What was their names again?
I REMEMBER!
The Schmirinskis. I used to love them back when I was... a lot younger lol.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
Seems that I made the right choice by just sticking to internet for my ISP plan.
Weekends work for me as well. Place?
Weekends work for me as well. Place?
How about Miki Ramen?
MasterOfPastures
Banned
Sounds good to me. Next weekend, at around the 2nd?
Hey Swiss-GAF,
I recently updated my Salt phone-contract and obtained a CHF 40.- voucher for Microspot.ch (only valid for a purchase of 400 or more).
If anyone is planning on buying something there before the 20th of August, I'm willing to sell it for CHF 20.- (paypal is fine).
Let me know if anyone is interested otherwise I won't be using it !
I recently updated my Salt phone-contract and obtained a CHF 40.- voucher for Microspot.ch (only valid for a purchase of 400 or more).
If anyone is planning on buying something there before the 20th of August, I'm willing to sell it for CHF 20.- (paypal is fine).
Let me know if anyone is interested otherwise I won't be using it !
Hey Swiss-Gaf
I have a job crisis at the moment and thought I could ask here for some tips, because I thought the topic is related to our education system and job system. But if this is too off topic, I’m really sorry and will delete this post.
I think my passion lies in coding/IT but I'm not sure how to achieve a career in that area.
Short background summary:
Always had problems what I really wanted to do -> Was kind of interesting in computers but because I hadn’t any experiences, I was too scared to do something in this area -> did a «Lehre» as business administrator -> Didn’t like it much, but I finished it -> Had problems to find normal jobs afterwards -> decided to study "information and documentation" at a Fachhochschule -> Absolutely didn’t like it, but got a very great degree in Bachelor. But I felt too overstrained and exhausted. The studies nearly destroyed me, psychologically, as well physically. It was too heavy for me -> Got a job at a very good company. Everything is fine, but my job itself is really boring and I’m very unhappy with it -> would like to change my career.
During my studies, I came in touch with coding for the first time. We learned the basics for Python, web-development (html, css, php, javascript, jquery) and SQL. I liked it so much that I even participated in coding projects and I never did mind to work through the whole night to find a solution for a code. So I thought that I would probably like to change my career to IT. But the problem is that I don’t know how to do it.
I have the feeling that I cannot get a job with my current degree and with my basic programming knowledges. Sure, I could go back to the university/Fachhochschule and get a degree in computer science, but the problems are:
• I’m literally scared to go to study again. I really fear that it will destroy me.
• Having the feeling that the (personally) extremely hard 3 years to get my current degree would have been for nothing
• Costs, time, and I won’t have any work-experiences in IT after getting the degree (and I will become 26 this year).
• A little fear that a job in IT still won’t satisfy me
I could imagine to do maybe a master (much shorter, you can work parallel, and so on), but haven’t really found something that could help me. I could do a master in Business Information Management (“Wirtschaftsinformatik” but people told me that I should only do this if I want become a project manager.
So then I thought that I could expand my programming knowledge with courses and self-studies and get a job this way. But I’m not sure if this is a good idea because I have a feeling that you need a diploma/piece of paper for everything here in Switzerland and that it will not help me much at the end.
So my question is: Does anyone maybe have a good advice or telling me what options I have to get a job in IT?
Thanks a lot!
I have a job crisis at the moment and thought I could ask here for some tips, because I thought the topic is related to our education system and job system. But if this is too off topic, I’m really sorry and will delete this post.
I think my passion lies in coding/IT but I'm not sure how to achieve a career in that area.
Short background summary:
Always had problems what I really wanted to do -> Was kind of interesting in computers but because I hadn’t any experiences, I was too scared to do something in this area -> did a «Lehre» as business administrator -> Didn’t like it much, but I finished it -> Had problems to find normal jobs afterwards -> decided to study "information and documentation" at a Fachhochschule -> Absolutely didn’t like it, but got a very great degree in Bachelor. But I felt too overstrained and exhausted. The studies nearly destroyed me, psychologically, as well physically. It was too heavy for me -> Got a job at a very good company. Everything is fine, but my job itself is really boring and I’m very unhappy with it -> would like to change my career.
During my studies, I came in touch with coding for the first time. We learned the basics for Python, web-development (html, css, php, javascript, jquery) and SQL. I liked it so much that I even participated in coding projects and I never did mind to work through the whole night to find a solution for a code. So I thought that I would probably like to change my career to IT. But the problem is that I don’t know how to do it.
I have the feeling that I cannot get a job with my current degree and with my basic programming knowledges. Sure, I could go back to the university/Fachhochschule and get a degree in computer science, but the problems are:
• I’m literally scared to go to study again. I really fear that it will destroy me.
• Having the feeling that the (personally) extremely hard 3 years to get my current degree would have been for nothing
• Costs, time, and I won’t have any work-experiences in IT after getting the degree (and I will become 26 this year).
• A little fear that a job in IT still won’t satisfy me
I could imagine to do maybe a master (much shorter, you can work parallel, and so on), but haven’t really found something that could help me. I could do a master in Business Information Management (“Wirtschaftsinformatik”
but people told me that I should only do this if I want become a project manager.So then I thought that I could expand my programming knowledge with courses and self-studies and get a job this way. But I’m not sure if this is a good idea because I have a feeling that you need a diploma/piece of paper for everything here in Switzerland and that it will not help me much at the end.
So my question is: Does anyone maybe have a good advice or telling me what options I have to get a job in IT?
Thanks a lot!
cloudwalking
300chf ain't shit to me
I know this is a common belief but I've personally found it not to be true. Every single job I've held here since moving to Switzerland has been one I was unqualified for. Of course there were a few jobs that were asking for papers, diplomas, whatever, but I didn't have any of it because I came from a different country. Hell, I barely spoke German when I landed my first job here.
My husband (GAF user jarosh) is a self-taught programmer. He never went to school to learn programming and doesn't have any kind of diploma. In fact, he did a "Lehre" as a Polygraf. But he recently got offered a job at an IT company just because he impressed the company owner with his know-how and with some of the things he programmed... and he isn't even actively looking for a new job.
I think that as long as you are knowledgable, motivated, and willing to do the work, that you can easily find a job. Especially when it comes to younger, more progressive companies, they don't seem to care as much if you have those "papers" or not. I know 3 people who work for Google in Zürich and only one of them has an actual degree (and it's a foreign degree). I also managed to work my way up into the payroll department at Apple in Zürich with zero credentials. It can absolutely be done if you want it badly enough.
Thanks for the reply! This motivates me a lot
.Now I know that it won't be a waste of time to expand my skills without an adequate degree
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