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[DXB-KNIGHT]

Dorothy is a journalist — no, not just a journalist, a great journalist — who WE had the privilege of working with for years. She went to Syria to cover the turmoil there. And that’s where she vanished last Friday.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Confessions of a Syrian Soldier after his escape from the military - because he received orders to fire on unarmed Syrian civilians in Banias - Al-bedah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfRvT8WTws

 

[Fularu]

My family members (both from the christian side and the muslim side) are portraying a very very different picture. The amount of evidence gathered which completely nullifies the so called claims of "pacifist manifestations" and "the military shooting the protesters" is stagering yet no one will post it.

Here's one very funny clip, this guy claims that they are under heavy fire from the security forces, I'll let you enjoy it.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=182321015150749&oid=190441824308029&comments

you need a facebook account to view it.

If you can read french, a few more testimonies, very intersting read which follows prety much what my family is telling me, and I see no reasons whatsoever to not believe them since we have a long tradition of beeing against the regime.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article169652.html

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

S.N.N | Message from our correspondent: A horrible military operation is taking place in Homs at the moment. The operation started at one clock in the morning. The targeted areas are Bab Alsibaa, Bab Aldraib, Bab Amro and Albayada. Tanks and hundreds of troops are roaming the cities while the security forces are arresting people from their houses.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

S.N.N | Homs | Bab Amro: Heavy military reinforcements after dawn p.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV_AiQSBoEE

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

S.N.N | Homs | Bab Amro: an hours ago, huge explosion was heard and Helicopters were flying over the area.
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/224085_185966601451123_175386715842445_462187_7971515_s.jpg

 

[Fritz]

My family members (both from the christian side and the muslim side) are portraying a very very different picture. The amount of evidence gathered which completely nullifies the so called claims of "pacifist manifestations" and "the military shooting the protesters" is stagering yet no one will post it.

Here's one very funny clip, this guy claims that they are under heavy fire from the security forces, I'll let you enjoy it.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=182321015150749&oid=190441824308029&comments

you need a facebook account to view it.

If you can read french, a few more testimonies, very intersting read which follows prety much what my family is telling me, and I see no reasons whatsoever to not believe them since we have a long tradition of beeing against the regime.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article169652.html

I thought about this. In such conflicts you will obviously always have different views, mind you not necessarily mala fide at all. Just different experiences really.
It came up when I read about Gaddafi's bank accounts in the West that will now be transferred to a fund to support the democratic opposition in Libya. How do we know who the hell should have access to these funds. Who will get the credit card if you will.
I think we can only rely on NGOs or individuals that have been monitoring these countries for years and know whats going on. My go-to organization is Human Rights Watch at the moment. A friend of mine is involved with it and from all she tells me they know their stuff. They might do some misjudgements as well of course, but you have to trust someone.

Well, that's what they are saying about Syria. I am just going to believe that. Even more so as the conflicts seem to be very confined to some localities.

 

[Akkad]

it's funny. Iraq is gonna happen all over again... US is "saving" the country from oppression, and yet once the governments are toppled, there are more acts of terrorism committed against churches and the religious minority.

they're ethnically cleansing the area of it's indigenous people, but that's never brought up in the news...

Exactly, I'm an Assyrian from Iraq (in the US now) and there are people who feel they were safer under Saddam, because that guy was a scumbag but at least he oppressed everybody equally and kept Muslims in check.

 

[Ashes]

Humanity disappoints again.

 

[Casp0r]

DXB-KNIGHT are you from Syria? Or you got family there?

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

DXB-KNIGHT are you from Syria? Or you got family there?

No but I have Syrian friends.

 

[kobashi100]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...est-against-assad-15152685.html#ixzz1Ll8DlJk6

Protesters tore up images of Syria’s President Bashar Assad as hundreds of British Muslims gathered to support the Arab Spring.

Around 600 demonstrators marched to the Syrian Embassy in London’s exclusive Belgravia district where they called for Assad and Libyan dictator Colonel Gaddafi to immediately step down.

Some of the demonstrators repeatedly hit large posters of Assad and Gaddafi with shoes – a hugely insulting gesture in the Arab world. Others ripped apart poster images of Assad, brandishing the torn remnants at the building.

Around 600 civilians and 100 soldiers have been killed since the Syrian revolt began, human rights groups have said.

Protesters from Leeds, Bradford, Luton and other parts of the UK gathered together to call for the end to the violence in Syria, Yemen and Libya as the Arab Spring escalates.

The uprisings have swept through other countries in the Middle East and North Africa, including Egypt and Tunisia. Protesters called for democratic and accountable governments to be installed in the countries that have managed to overthrow their leaders.

Taji Mustafa, a marcher from the Muslim political group Hizb ut-Tahrir, called for a caliphate – a single state for Muslims – to be installed in the liberated countries. He said: “People are here from all over the UK to show solidarity and support to those who are bravely standing up against tyrants across the Muslim world.

Hizb ut-Tahrir regards the caliphate as the ideal form of government because it follows what it believes are the laws of God as set out in the Koran, rather than laws designed by man. Mr Mustafa added: “All of these Western-backed tyrants have to go.”

The march snaked through central London with male demonstrators at the front and the women protesters bringing up the rear.

Many carried banners bearing slogans such as “Stop US imperialism, support a caliphate” and “Arab puppet rulers must go”

Massive rally in front of Al Aqsa in support of Syrian uprising

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00l30UM3ALI&feature=player_embedded#at=90

 

[Centurion]

this is why I have a problem choosing a side...

I know that's in egypt, but i believe it's relevant in Syria just as it was in Iraq (and still is). The governments are fucked up, but a lot of the radical muslims are even worse...

Cairo, Egypt (CNN) -- At least six people were killed and 120 injured in sectarian clashes outside a church in Cairo on Saturday, officials said.

A group of Muslim Salafists attacked the Saint Mena Coptic Orthodox Church. Gunfire rang out as people sprinted for cover.

"With my own eyes I saw three people killed and dozens injured," said Mina Adel, a Christian resident. "There's no security here. There's a big problem. People attacked us, and we have to protect ourselves."

Egyptian Interior Ministry spokesman Alla Mahmoud said in a statement that six people were killed and 120 injured.

He said the clashes were sparked by reports of a Christian woman who married a Muslim man and was allegedly being held inside the church.

State TV, citing a source at the Health Ministry, said that eight people died and 144 were wounded in the violence.

Nearby, firefighters responded to a blaze at the Saint Virgin Mary's Coptic Orthodox Church. Hundreds of residents stood outside as it burned and two men were seen jumping from a window of the building.

Authorities sent soldiers and police to help secure the area.

Tensions have risen this year between Egypt's Muslim majority and its Coptic minority.

A Coptic church in the town of Alexandria was bombed on New Year's Day, killing 23 people -- the deadliest attack on Christians in Egypt in recent times.

Ten days later, a gunman killed a Christian man and wounded five other Christians on a train in Egypt.

In November, a group with ties to al Qaeda in Iraq announced that all Christians in the Middle East would be "legitimate targets," as the group's deadline for Egypt's Coptic church to release alleged Muslim female prisoners expired.

The group's claim that the Coptic Church in Egypt is holding female prisoners is based on widespread rumors of Coptic women in Egypt converting to Islam and being detained by the church in an attempt to compel or persuade them to return to their original faith. (bull fucking shit)

About 9% of Egypt's 80 million residents are Coptic Christians. They base their theology on the teachings of the Apostle Mark, who introduced Christianity to Egypt, according to St. Takla Church in Alexandria, the capital of Coptic Christianity.

The religion split with other Christians in the 5th century over the definition of the divinity of Jesus Christ.

I can't cheer for the freedom of these people, i've lost faith in that whole area.

 

[gutter_trash]

this is why I have a problem choosing a side...

I know that's in egypt, but i believe it's relevant in Syria just as it was in Iraq (and still is). The governments are fucked up, but a lot of the radical muslims are even worse...




I can't cheer for the freedom of these people, i've lost faith in that whole area.

I reacted the same last month when there were news stories of sanitarian violence post Mubarak removal

no hope, and I don't care if they get their freedom or not because they seem to get worse without a dictator to calm them down

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

this is why I have a problem choosing a side...

I know that's in egypt, but i believe it's relevant in Syria just as it was in Iraq (and still is). The governments are fucked up, but a lot of the radical muslims are even worse...




I can't cheer for the freedom of these people, i've lost faith in that whole area.

How is this news, again? Different religious sects fighting each other? SHOCK N AWE!

 

[Centurion]

How is this news, again? Different religious sects fighting each other? SHOCK N AWE!

fighting each other? Show me a story of a christian man in the middle east blowing up a mosque... idiot.

most christians in the area just fear being persecuted. your sarcasm sucks.

 

[Relix]

fighting each other? Show me a story of a christian man in the middle east blowing up a mosque... idiot.

most christians in the area just fear being persecuted. your sarcasm sucks.

Then again we have the Crusades...

 

[LQX]

Then again we have the Crusades...

The Crusades happened over 500 years ago...

 

[Centurion]

Then again we have the Crusades...

alright, Im out of here before i spend the rest of the day dealing with this kind of nonsense.

I can use bin ladin as an excuse against muslims for thousands of years to come? got it.

Even if you were being sarcastic, there are people who would actually use that defense.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

There has been a rise in sectarian anger and violence in Egypt. As for as a Christian(s) bombing a Mosque, I'm not aware of any instances. Don't know why you have to use "bomb" as the only means for violence for any religous sect.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Muslims bombed a mosque...

 

[Centurion]

EDIT NM

no never mind.... your idiocy will be revealed to all.

Wait wait wait. You can't be serious? Muslims bombed a mosque after the Church bombing on New Year's Eve.

Where's the laughing emoticon when you need it.

and I won't even respond to it, because you're out of your league on this point.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I just got back from a 12 hour a shift. Cut me some slack.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

no never mind.... your idiocy will be revealed to all.



and I won't even respond to it, because you're out of your league on this point.

Idiocy, yeah. The fact remains they're fighting each other.

Now keep it up with the name calling, chief.

 

[Centurion]

Idiocy, yeah. The fact remains they're fighting each other.

Now keep it up with the name calling, chief.

they're fighting eachother?... lol i love this, muslims are fighting the christian minority. there is no fight back. you are acting a fool right now, the idiocy claim isn't name calling, it just represents who you are (at least in this topic.... well and countless other shit I've seen you write on neogaf).

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Sigh. Ignorance seems bliss for you. Search through my post history and I clearly have a bit knowledge on the Middle East, North Africa, and its history.

Googling "Christan-Muslim sectarian violence in Egypt" brings up a boatload of news.

Better yet, you're going on ignore. Name-calling and ignorance.

Have a nice night.

 

[Centurion]

Sigh. Ignorance seems bliss for you. Search through my post history and I clearly have a bit knowledge on the Middle East, North Africa, and its history.

Googling "Christan-Muslim sectarian violence in Egypt" brings up a boatload of news.

Better yet, you're going on ignore. Name-calling and ignorance.

Have a nice night.

boom, head shot!

 

[Atrus]

Then again we have the Crusades...

The Crusades were actually a combination of retaliation against Islamic advances against Christendom, political opportunism to re-unify Christendom after the Great Schism, and personal greed.

Realize that the lands the Crusaders were invading were actually territories the Byzantines lost during the Islamic blitzkrieg of the Near East, North Africa and Asia Minor.

If anything, the Crusades were worse for Christians than for Muslims since the fourth Crusade effectively ended the ability for the Byzantines to retake their lost territories and the loss of the Byzantines as a line of defense against Islamic expansion. Since Western Europe was fractured after the barbarian invasions, the Ottomans were able to advance as far as Vienna before finally being checked by the Holy League.

Latter crusades were pretty much inquisitions in European territories.

 

[Septy]

How is this news, again? Different religious sects fighting each other? SHOCK N AWE!

It's not so much one sect fighting another, it's more like one sect actively persecuting another. Muslims get preferential treatment in Egypt. Conversion from Islam is banned, while conversion to it is actively encouraged. Religion is on the national ID card so they can excluded from jobs. The government has been encouraging anti-Christian behavior in Egypt for years as it helps distract the people from the oligarchy that runs the state, it only takes action when there is a particularly bad terrorist attack. All it takes is a rumor of a Christian man dating a Muslim woman and it can spark an anti-Christian pogrom.

 

[theignoramus]

Back to Syria, I find it pretty fascinating that no Syrians are calling for outside intervention when Bashar Al Assad is essentially doing what Muammar Gaddafi did in Libya before resolution 1973 was passed. In fact, Bashar al assad may have went further. I dont recall Gadaffi's forces laying seige to a whole town with tanks and shellfire then storming a mosque. Human rights groups are saying there are around 600+ civilians dead and dozens of dead soldiers. Given the number of youtuve videos floating around that clearly and vividly show security forces using automatic weapons against unarmed demonstrators, I'm inclined to believe that number.

 

[justjohn]

So how come this isn't getting that much attention from the western media?

 

[lo escondido]

So how come this isn't getting that much attention from the western media?

We killed bin laden

they're fighting eachother?... lol i love this, muslims are fighting the christian minority. there is no fight back. you are acting a fool right now, the idiocy claim isn't name calling, it just represents who you are (at least in this topic.... well and countless other shit I've seen you write on neogaf).

Lebanon wasn't too long ago. I agree that Christians are treated like crap in the middle east and are more often than not the victims. But I'm sorry its wrong to support dictators because a bunch of crazies hate you. They are still dictators and violate human rights. Right for your rights as well but don't deny them to others because you fear the unknown. Of course bad things happen when sombody in power falls but thats a time to work towards peace. I remember muslims helping christians in egypt too.

 

[Centurion]

So how come this isn't getting that much attention from the western media?

unless shit REALLY hits the fan, I don't see the US wanting to get involved, probably because of this:

Given the policies adopted from the 1960s through the late 1980s, which included nationalization of companies and private assets, Syria failed to join an increasingly interconnected global economy. Syria withdrew from the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) in 1951 because of Israel's accession. It is not a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO), although it submitted a request to begin the accession process in 2001. Syria is developing regional free trade agreements. As of 1 January 2005, the Greater Arab Free Trade Area (GAFTA) came into effect and customs duties were eliminated between Syria and all other members of GAFTA.

and the media can't cover it because they've banned all media outlets.

 

[lo escondido]

unless shit REALLY hits the fan, I don't see the US wanting to get involved, probably because of this:



and the media can't cover it because they've banned all media outlets.

And also they have their hands in Lebanon and Gaza and could blow the whole region in to chaos if they did something rash. The US has put sanctions up so their not doing nothing

 

[Centurion]

Lebanon wasn't too long ago. I agree that Christians are treated like crap in the middle east and are more often than not the victims. But I'm sorry its wrong to support dictators because a bunch of crazies hate you. They are still dictators and violate human rights. Right for your rights as well but don't deny them to others because you fear the unknown. Of course bad things happen when sombody in power falls but thats a time to work towards peace. I remember muslims helping christians in egypt too.

you can't just say Lebanon wasn't too long ago and end it there ...

Following the assassination of Lebanese Christian President Bashir Gemayel, tensions built as Phalangists called for revenge. By noon of September 15, the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) had completely surrounded the Sabra-Shatila camps, and controlled all entrances and exits by the means of checkpoints. The IDF also occupied a number of multi-story buildings as observation posts. Amongst those was the seven-story Kuwaiti embassy which, according to TIME magazine, had "an unobstructed and panoramic view" of the camps. Hours later, IDF tanks began shelling the camps.[11]

Ariel Sharon and Chief of Staff Rafael Eitan[13] met with the Lebanese Phalangist militia units, inviting them to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps and telling them the PLO fighters were responsible for the assassination of their leader Bashir Gemayel.[14] Under the Israeli plan, Israeli soldiers would control the perimeters of the refugee camps and provide logistical support while the Phalangists would enter the camps, find the PLO fighters and hand them over to Israeli forces.[citation needed] The meetings concluded at 3:00 p.m. September 16.[11]

An hour later, 1,500 militiamen assembled at Beirut International Airport, then occupied by Israel. Under the command of Elie Hobeika, they began moving towards the camps in IDF supplied Jeeps, following Israeli guidance on how to enter the camps. The forces were mostly Phalangist, though there were some men from Saad Haddad's "Free Lebanon forces".[11] According to Ariel Sharon and Elie Hobeika's bodyguard, the Phalangists were given "harsh and clear" warnings about harming civilians.[12][15]

The first unit of 150 Phalangists entered the camps at 6:00 p.m. A battle ensued that at times Palestinians claim involved lining up Palestinians for execution.[11] During the night the Israeli forces fired illuminating flares over the camps. According to a Dutch nurse, the camp was as bright as "a sports stadium during a football game".[16]

check under events.

I do have sympathy for the majority that want piece, but the fact remains that no one stops the extremists from committing horrible crimes (the shitty dictatorship does though). It's not fear of the unknown, it is damn well known what the goal is for some of these nut jobs.

 

[Cromat]

So how do you explain how Syria gets a lot less coverage than any of the other Arab revolutions (except Bahrain)?
Even Yemen gets more attention.


I think a lot of it has to do with Al-Jazeera. They hate pro-Western regimes like Mubarak's in Egypt and Saleh's in Yemen, and they kinda hate Qaddafi too because he's clearly insane (and it was clear even before the uprising there began). But they do have a soft spot for the Syrian regime because it's anti-Western/American/Israel and pro-Iran/Hamas/Hizbullah. I remember when Mubarak resigned the people on Tahrir square were carrying huge signs with Al-Jazeera's logo on them. Al-Jazeera is basically the mouth of the regime in Qatar, maybe that's why the uprisings in Bahrain and Syria are getting somewhat less coverage.

 

[GillianSeed79]

DBX-Knight, as an American, just wanted to say I admire and respect the courage of the people of Syria in the face of such a brutal crack down. It's so heart breaking to hear and read all of the reports coming out of Syria and the tepid response by the international community. There are fine people covering the bloodshed, but sadly it seems like it's ignored. The Arab Spring is the greatest geo-political movement since the collapse of the USSR and we need to do more to focus and support these calls for freedom and the elimination of tyranny. I don't get it honestly. The west would overjoyed if Syria was no longer a puppet state of Iran and Hezbollah.

 

[Centurion]

So how do you explain how Syria gets a lot less coverage than any of the other Arab revolutions (except Bahrain)?
Even Yemen gets more attention.


I think a lot of it has to do with Al-Jazeera. They hate pro-Western regimes like Mubarak's in Egypt and Saleh's in Yemen, and they kinda hate Qaddafi too because he's clearly insane (and it was clear even before the uprising there began). But they do have a soft spot for the Syrian regime because it's anti-Western/American/Israel and pro-Iran/Hamas/Hizbullah. I remember when Mubarak resigned the people on Tahrir square were carrying huge signs with Al-Jazeera's logo on them. Al-Jazeera is basically the mouth of the regime in Qatar, maybe that's why the uprisings in Bahrain and Syria are getting somewhat less coverage.

i don't think Yemen gets all that much coverage either. Libya was an exception because it affected Europe economically, and they were calling for US help.

 

[goomba]

The Crusades happened over 500 years ago...

Bush packaged Iraq and Afghanistan as a holy crusade, and that the war itself was not simply a war against an enemy nation or against terrorists, but as a war against Satan.

 

[Centurion]

Bush packaged Iraq and Afghanistan as a holy crusade, and that the war itself was not simply a war against an enemy nation or against terrorists, but as a war against Satan.

what does that have to do with middle eastern christians? and again, even that was the result of an attack by a radical muslim.

No need to be an ass you know. Even with all the god damn violence there are still people that want to be at peace with each other. And yes, the terrible Muslims supporting the Christians in the area. Look it up yourself I'm sure you'll find something that's recent.

i have nothing against muslims, i have a lot of appreciation for all the young peaceful revolutionaries throughout the area... don't confuse my hostility for the extremists as hostility for all muslims. and also, I was an ass because his response didn't deserve better. "LOL people hate eachother? News at ELEVEN!!1111!!!" doesn't warrant a decent response back.

 

[Lamel]

they're fighting eachother?... lol i love this, muslims are fighting the christian minority. there is no fight back. you are acting a fool right now, the idiocy claim isn't name calling, it just represents who you are (at least in this topic.... well and countless other shit I've seen you write on neogaf).

No need to be an ass you know. Even with all the god damn violence there are still people that want to be at peace with each other. And yes, the terrible Muslims supporting the Christians in the area. Look it up yourself I'm sure you'll find something that's recent.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Bush packaged Iraq and Afghanistan as a holy crusade, and that the war itself was not simply a war against an enemy nation or against terrorists, but as a war against Satan.

Bush believed a lot of things. If he said that driving oil-guzzling cars was a Christian thing to do, it wouldn't turn car-driving Atheists into Christians.

 

[theignoramus]

So how do you explain how Syria gets a lot less coverage than any of the other Arab revolutions (except Bahrain)?
Even Yemen gets more attention.

I think you dont what the hell you're talking about. Syria has locked journalists out of the country, detained an al jazeera journalist, threatened their staff and lashed out at the station via their state run propaganda channel. The regime has also cut off power and communications in whole areas and blocked cell phone signals....
How does your theory hold up when Arabic side's Beirut burea chief resigns alleging that the channel "launched a smear campaign against the Syrian government"?
Oh that's right, your theory is bullshit and doesnt stand up to facts or scrutiny.
The level of coverage between the two isnt even close.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/syria/

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/yemen/



It's covering Syria more comprehensively than any other international outlet, and that's with severe reporting restrictions.

edit: amusingly, even Bahrain has received more coverage than Yemen, at least on the English channel.
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/bahrain/

 

[OttomanScribe]

what's the point of this?

It is a picture of Assyrians. The Assyrian empire was a brutal, brutal empire, probably one of the worst in the history of the Middle East. They get hated on a lot in the bible.

Then for some bizarre reason a bunch of Iraqi Christians started calling themselves 'Assyrian' during the British mandate in an attempt to draw British support. Now you have a whole bunch of Iraqi Christians claiming an Assyrian identity (despite the fact that the Assyrians were wiped out and forgotten save in the Bible until the Brits started doing translation work).

Its kind of funny to me, they didn't pick Sumer, or Ur or any of the other great cultural city states with which to make up a false Nationalism about. Instead they picked the barbaric blinders who destroyed Babylon and persecuted the Jews. Lol.

 

[OttomanScribe]

People talking about Christian versus Muslim, Muslim verses Christian etc.

Never heard of Sabra and Shatila?

It took 500 years for Egypt to become majority Muslim. They were hardly on a crusade enforcing orthodoxy. Lebanon still has a large Christian population because the Christians weren't persecuted. Compare this to the massive Druid population in Christian Europe....

Christians, Jews and Muslims in general got along in the ME. While political differences and wars occured, they were rarely followed with the kind of Barbarism that the European Christians bought with them to the Levant. 40% of Ottoman Armies were Christian. This wierd nationalism and in fighting is a quite recent thing on the whole.

 

[lo escondido]

Bush packaged Iraq and Afghanistan as a holy crusade, and that the war itself was not simply a war against an enemy nation or against terrorists, but as a war against Satan.

No he didn't. He repeatedly stated that this was not a war against Islam.

 

[lo escondido]

40% of Ottoman Armies were Christian. This wierd nationalism and in fighting is a quite recent thing on the whole.

To be fair they often were forced (at least in the beginning) and a lot of their Christian soldiers were from the Balkans, not the middle east. And I agree that much, though not all, of the modern issue come directly from artifical borders created by the european powers (though the attempt at arab union failed so its not all europe)

 

[OttomanScribe]

To be fair they often were forced (at least in the beginning) and a lot of their Christian soldiers were from the Balkans, not the middle east. And I agree that much, though not all, of the modern issue come directly from artifical borders created by the european powers (though the attempt at arab union failed so its not all europe)

The academic articles I read said nothing about Christians being any more compelled to defend the empire than Muslims. The Ottoman state was often wary of calling its military ventures 'Jihad' precisely because they were often in benefit of the Christian minorities in their lands. This was true of the Balkans as much as Greece, where Greeks only began to view themselves as such much later on, again through that creation of false nations.

 

[Atrus]

Never heard of Sabra and Shatila?

Christians, Jews and Muslims in general got along in the ME. While political differences and wars occured, they were rarely followed with the kind of Barbarism that the European Christians bought with them to the Levant. 40% of Ottoman Armies were Christian. This wierd nationalism and in fighting is a quite recent thing on the whole.

Eh... plenty of peoples were persecuted under Islamic rule. The Assyrians, the Armenians, the Kurds, the Greeks, and the Bulgarians all faced genocides under the Ottoman empire.

While Copts in Egypt were initially offered leniency for which they accepted in part due to a schism between Copts and the Eastern Orthodox patriarchs (and after the Byzantines had lost Alexandria), the jizya tax quickly escalated and squeezed them dry and failure to pay meant a revocation of protection, which for most meant slavery or forced conscription. The coffers of Harun Al-Rashid were a testament to how badly they were taxed in his lifetime.

If memory serves me correctly, the terms of surrender also included that the Copts wouldn't be forcefully conscripted, a term that would not need to be included if the Islamic forces were not actively practicing it as seen elsewhere.

Under Ottoman and Egyptian rule, Christians and Mamluks were forcibly converted into a soldier force and in North Africa much of the same happened to the Berbers.

For non-Dhimmi, the Zoroastrians were staunchly persecuted in Persia and those non-Dhimmi Berbers in NW Africa, they were often sold into slavery or forced to join the military.

Timur, considering himself a Ghazi and a Mongol romanticist, went into the Delhi sultanate to slaughter non-Muslims, namely Hindu's and administration under his rule was far from tolerant.

What's happening in Egypt now between the Salafists and the Copts echo again the same situation that occurred in Al-Andalus, where this supposed tolerance was supposed to have been emphasized best. For all the state could do, Muslims themselves rioted against this tolerance and from their protests. This would all be moot when the Almoravids, echoing the people, would take power and go to town on non-Muslims, effectively rendering regions like modern day Tunisia completely Islamic.

Without the revisionist glasses, Islamic rule was also pretty damn barbaric and not really all that special when contrasted to the Byzantine or Persian rule in the same regions, both of which allowed significant degree of religious plurality (possibly more given that they weren't limited to Dhimmi's) in their vast empires.

 

[Centurion]

It is a picture of Assyrians. The Assyrian empire was a brutal, brutal empire, probably one of the worst in the history of the Middle East. They get hated on a lot in the bible.

Then for some bizarre reason a bunch of Iraqi Christians started calling themselves 'Assyrian' during the British mandate in an attempt to draw British support. Now you have a whole bunch of Iraqi Christians claiming an Assyrian identity (despite the fact that the Assyrians were wiped out and forgotten save in the Bible until the Brits started doing translation work).

Its kind of funny to me, they didn't pick Sumer, or Ur or any of the other great cultural city states with which to make up a false Nationalism about. Instead they picked the barbaric blinders who destroyed Babylon and persecuted the Jews. Lol.

i know what it's a picture of. I wanted to see your intentions for posting it... And my assumptions were correct.

don't pretend like you know what you are talking about. There were always assyrians in the area, we still speak the language, yes the assyrian language and no one else in the area speaks it. It's derived from the old aramaic language. How do you explain that? you ignorant cunt. you are going to tell me of my own history? fuck right off.

you're showing your ignorance, yes it was a brutal empire (one of the first to have an actual civilization) but they all were.

and assyrians didn't convert to christianity until 1st century AD. You talk about the assyrians as if you know them... you know what you learned from your selective teachings, and probably very little about them.

but i'm not even going to get into any further debates with you, because I know your posting history. Not even worth it.