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[firex]

I'm pretty sure Bungie writes way worse dialogue. Although I guess they can skate by because all of their near-Xenogears level of pretentious writing in Marathon is monologues.

 

[Red Blaster]

I'm actually at a loss to think of a game that isn't terrible in the writing department--except maybe God of War, which gets a bit of a pass due to its subject matter.

Do I have to have Master Of Puppets as my favorite album of all time to think this way? 'cause I honestly don't remember a damn thing about the narrative in God Of War that put it beyond generic filler to give the violence some direction.

Yeah no, movies put games to shame. Hell, I'd say even blockbuster summer movies by Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer would rival the best gaming has to offer.

And that's fucking pathetic.

If something like Crash, which is maybe a skosh above a Tales games in terms how it deals with racism, can somehow win an Academy Award for best writing then I'm not so sure.

 

[Azih]

Bloodlines... pretty mediocre

You... you shut your ugly mouth.

 

[Hunter D]

It is true that most games have bad writing, but there are quiet a few games that have solid dialog. Deus Ex 2, VtM, GeOW, and BG&E are just a few of the games that I have played that have good writing over the years.

The Journeyman Project Turbo had some good writing.

 

[Kodiak]

Rare was never relevant and BGII's still only topped by Planescape: Torment and the best of adventure games 7 years later.

Next?

valve says hello.


(so does bioshock?)

 

[dude]

And this is why I can't stand Bioware's writing. I don't read pulpy Forgotten Realms trash. I don't read Expanded Universe Star Wars novels. I don't read Star Trek licensed books. I have expectations for writing that ostensibly takes itself seriously.

I don't read them much anymore either, but it's still fun to see how well they mimic the style, there's something that is just fun about these kind of stories once you don't actually read them, but play them.

No game, ever, featured dialogue or story worth thinking about for three minutes after you're done playing it, they're all crap. PS:T is the only one that comes close to being actually interesting, but still falls short outside of the gaming medium.
But thats all bullshit, it's like saying 300 is a bad movie because it's just a bunch of fancy effects and huge battles, sure that's the movie, but that's what it tries to be, and it's a great use of the cinematic medium, the beauty of it is that it doesn't take itself seriously, they know what they're making and how to do it.
BG2 does not hold some of god's wisdom, but it's the game that I had the most fun to play, it was just an amazing experience from the start to the finish (especially if you play the whole saga, I remember thinking in the middle of TOB how I started as a level 1 fighter in BG1 and got goosebumps remembering all the adventures I've been through), it's also a breed of games that's dying - games where you actually role play, you can actually shape your character.

That's the thing, I did try to do all the sidequests but there weren't that many available. I remember how I, basically, thought "wtf is this it!?" quite alot when I played BG2. Especially when a chapter ended. Most of the time I think I completed, roughly, 5-10 sidequests in the chapters I finished and after that I couldn't find anymore. I finished most of them quite fast too. I must've chosen a pretty bad combo of partymembers, seeing that only Jaheira and Aerie were the ones doing any real interaction. The others rarely said anything at all.

I guess I should get a walkthrough or something if I play it again..

Hmm... I really can't think how you missed the HALF A BILLION side quests in chapters two and three, I constantly had my journal full of quests I couldn't get rid of. Walk around, talk to people, travel out of Athkatla (although there's a lot to do just there), I'm sure that replaying will help you find more quests.

The girls do talk a lot more, since there's romance involved (Try hitting on Jaheira, she's the best one and have a sexy accent!), but everyone will always chime in during conversations, give you side quests and the like - just walk around, they always tend to do this when you're in a middle of a dungeon and the likes. One of the only things I like about the new BioWare game is the ability to talk to your party members without them starting the conversation.

Spoiler

(TIP: No party is full without Minsc, Edwin and Jan are can also add to every party. When you finish the game, start it over with a different party, almost every combination you pick will be great, but for the first time stick to the classic Minsc-Edwin-Jan hilarity.)

A walkthrough can be nice with games this big, it is in the hundreds of game play hours. Gamebanshee has great walkthoughs.

 

[Pellham]

"Not even back in SNES/N64 days?"


Rare did Uniracer right? I'll give them that. Everything else was meh-to-bad. Similar to Factor 5 only having Turrican.

Blast Corps was the shit also. But i'm going to guess you never played it, cause you would likely be worshipping it like everyone else if you did.

 

[Kodiak]

Blast Corps was the shit also. But i'm going to guess you never played it, cause you would likely be worshipping it like everyone else if you did.

Since when did we decide Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie and Conker?

 

[Walshicus]

I'm pretty sure Bungie writes way worse dialogue. Although I guess they can skate by because all of their near-Xenogears level of pretentious writing in Marathon is monologues.

Nuts to you.

 

[karasu]

And this is why I can't stand Bioware's writing. I don't read pulpy Forgotten Realms trash. I don't read Expanded Universe Star Wars novels. I don't read Star Trek licensed books. I have expectations for writing that ostensibly takes itself seriously.

? Then why play games that take place in those genres and universes?

 

[oracrest]

its good to see a thread like this.

With all the talk about games being limited by technical capability, hardly anyone ever talks about the other major gaming limitation, namely the taste and quality of the content.

Im still waiting for gaming to begin some sort of artistic renaissance. Honestly, the amount of bad character design, bad writing, bad plots, bad everything is starting to get really boring.

Of course theres the occasional gem. I always loved Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain's dialog (in fact, that game was the system seller for me). It was contextual, took itself seriously, and ultimately made the experience much more enjoyable and respectable. I enjoyed the subsequent games in the franchise, but definitely felt like they took on the formula of "just say a lot of eccentric adjectives" with their writing. Like they took what Blood Omen did, and sort of rehashed it's method of dialog and writing, but probably couldn't have come up with it initially themselves-sort of thing.

Planescape too is way up there. That was the only game where I would actually try and click on everything to read it's description, or make a point to talk to every character. I remember the first two baldur's Gate games being really good, but man, does anyone else feel that Bioware has just been making baldur's gates over and over again for years?

I enjoyed Sanitarium's writing. I guess most adventure game shine in the writing department. Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis was good, and all the humorous lucasarts adventure games were REALLY well done as comedic writing.

 

[Kosma]

I'm sorry their writing isn't as bland as PNO3's environments.

 

[Truespeed]

shut up about your exchange rate, canadian! you don't have to go to each thread and harp about it! it doesn't help our dollar one bit!

Yes, Maria Bartiromo, you're right. He should stop. After all, $60 CDN is now worth more than $60 USD.

 

[gregor7777]

"Seven years ago, dude. Back when Sega and Rare were still relevant."


Rare was never relevant and BGII's still only topped by Planescape: Torment and the best of adventure games 7 years later.

Next?

This man speaks the truth.

 

[Kosma]

This man speaks the truth.

He cannot speak the truth when he denies the fact that Banjo Kazooie is the best platformer of it's generation.

 

[radios shipping overview]

? Then why play games that take place in those genres and universes?

I try to avoid Bioware games these days. KOTOR bored me to tears. Even BGII never really grabbed me. Aside from KOTOR, the last Star Wars game I played was Jedi Knight. On the other hand, the great gameplay in stuff like Icewind Dale and PS:T, combined with Black Isle's writing, made them more-than-worthwhile experiences.

If the writing is good enough to make me forget how hackneyed the setting is, then the writers have done their job. Bioware just makes it more obvious.

 

[Stinkles]

Wait.

You just don't understand empire planning. Perhaps they intended a specific rise-fall cycle for their empire.

 

[Fio]

Aside LucasArt's adventures, I only remember few games that have some story worth attention. Paper Mario games, Disgaea, Phoenix Right. Maybe I've missed one or two.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I get it now! Link was never actually called Link. It was just a bad translation to say "you must link the 8 pieces together to save her!".

 

[Mockingbird]

These fine examples disagree with you.

The Zelda one isn't dialogue. . .

 

[dude]

Aside LucasArt's adventures, I only remember few games that have some story worth attention. Paper Mario games, Disgaea, Phoenix Right. Maybe I've missed one or two.

WHAT

 

[Quagm1r3]

Wow... you should not play Gears of War then.

Look at all dat bad dialogue.

 

[The Hermit]

Blast Corps was the shit also. But i'm going to guess you never played it, cause you would likely be worshipping it like everyone else if you did.

i know this is off topic but, this is a terrible joke...

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Look at all dat bad dialogue.

The writing in Gears really wasn't that bad. It was low brow and sometimes even annoying, but it was well written and delivered for what it was. It doesn't pretend to be anything else than basic action, macho chatter.

 

[Quagm1r3]

BTW, does this count as "dialogue"?

That was so horrible when I was playing through that. I remember shaking my head the entire time.

 

[Kosma]

The writing in Gears really wasn't that bad. It was low brow and sometimes even annoying, but it was well written and delivered for what it was.

Also you could fit the entire dialog from Gears on 1 page. But I liked it as far as "action movies"go. Except the bit about the dead soldiers in the first act.

 

[zon]

Hmm... I really can't think how you missed the HALF A BILLION side quests in chapters two and three, I constantly had my journal full of quests I couldn't get rid of. Walk around, talk to people, travel out of Athkatla (although there's a lot to do just there), I'm sure that replaying will help you find more quests.

The girls do talk a lot more, since there's romance involved (Try hitting on Jaheira, she's the best one and have a sexy accent!), but everyone will always chime in during conversations, give you side quests and the like - just walk around, they always tend to do this when you're in a middle of a dungeon and the likes. One of the only things I like about the new BioWare game is the ability to talk to your party members without them starting the conversation.

Spoiler

(TIP: No party is full without Minsc, Edwin and Jan are can also add to every party. When you finish the game, start it over with a different party, almost every combination you pick will be great, but for the first time stick to the classic Minsc-Edwin-Jan hilarity.)

A walkthrough can be nice with games this big, it is in the hundreds of game play hours. Gamebanshee has great walkthoughs.

Hyperbole aside, I agree it's weird that I managed to miss so many quests. I did run around and talk to the NPCs I met (maybe in the wrong chapters then). I remember not having access to many areas on the worldmap though. Perhaps I somehow managed to miss entrances to some places or the installation didn't work properly. That happened to my Fallout 2 disc. Last questions regarding BG2, does an evil character have the same amount of quests/etc available as a good character in BG2? Do they get just as good items?

And I disagree with you regarding P:T, I think the story in that game would do very well if compared to movies and other media. But I have to admit it was some time ago since I last played it.

 

[Quagm1r3]

The writing in Gears really wasn't that bad. It was low brow and sometimes even annoying, but it was well written and delivered for what it was. It doesn't pretend to be anything else than basic action, macho chatter.

I know...I just couldn't pass up the opportunity.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Also you could fit the entire dialog from Gears on 1 page. But I liked it as far as "action movies"go. Except the bit about the dead soldiers in the first act.

Oh, the part about them hoping it wasn't this or that guy, because that guy had just become a father, or something to that effect? That instantly reminded me of a similar scene in Killzone, "not [dude's name], he was just a boy", and it made me cringe in Killzone too.

 

[Kosma]

Oh, the part about them hoping it wasn't this or that guy, because that guy had just become a father, or something to that effect? That instantly reminded me of a similar scene in Killzone, "not [dude's name], he was just a boy", and it made me cringe in Killzone too.

Exactly that bit, it sounded so forced. Besides that I liked it.

 

[karasu]

You just don't understand empire planning. Perhaps they intended a specific rise-fall cycle for their empire.

sarcasm?

 

[Byakuya769]

bahahahahaha, the dialogue in the op was pretty horrible. Reminds me of what I think a romantic novel would read like. Fabio on the cover of Mass Effect confirmed?

 

[zon]

Oh, the part about them hoping it wasn't this or that guy, because that guy had just become a father, or something to that effect? That instantly reminded me of a similar scene in Killzone, "he was just a boy", and it made me cringe in Killzone too.

The father thing is pretty basic stuff in anything that's revolves around a war.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

The father thing is pretty basic stuff in anything that's revolves around a war.

True, but it didn't fit. There is that issue of emotion again, and trying to force it into a decidedly not thought provoking setting produces cringe worthy results.

 

[Kosma]

The father thing is pretty basic stuff in anything that's revolves around a war.

Yeah, but when used badly it has a reversed effect. Instead of relating to the story and immersing you /making you feel moved you totally step out of the experience and go "ugh that feels odd why did they put that in there?".

PS: I was more moved by the first level of COD2 with the Russians blowing on the whistles and charging the enemy.

 

[TheGreatDave]

The writing in Gears I actually thought was really good. I got called out for being a moron last time I said that in a Mass Effect thread but really, the game feels so much more alive than others when the characters are interacting with one another. Sure "eat shit and die" isn't great writing, but you always felt like there were 3 guys with you, even if those 3 guys were useless idiots that jumped right in to fire.

Mass Effect's cutscenes have always looked forced and uninteresting to me, the way characters interact seems completely unnatural. The only reason I'll be buying the game is in the hope that when you take away the story (like I will) it'll still be an enjoyable game.

 

[coldvein]

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE TO FILL YOUR DARK SOUL WITH LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!!!

oh god, i thought i had forgotten that. embarassing

 

[Rabbit Lord]

Your mom writes the worst dialogue in the industry.

Also, shut up bitch.

I lol'd IRL.

 

[Kosma]

GreatDave now that you are here, I asked you a question once in the Too Human thread and I didn't see your answer (if you answered at all) but I'm genuinely interested. You said that you skipped the cutscenes in Eternal Darkness, I wondered how this is possible as you seem to like Lycnhian vibes , I thought Lovecraft would fit in too. But I guess not?

Also I agree on the Gears writing, the guys always seemed to be really running along with you.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

The writing in Gears I actually thought was really good. I got called out for being a moron last time I said that in a Mass Effect thread but really, the game feels so much more alive than others when the characters are interacting with one another. Sure "eat shit and die" isn't great writing, but you always felt like there were 3 guys with you, even if those 3 guys were useless idiots that jumped right in to fire.

Mass Effect's cutscenes have always looked forced and uninteresting to me, the way characters interact seems completely unnatural. The only reason I'll be buying the game is in the hope that when you take away the story (like I will) it'll still be an enjoyable game.

Indeed. Make no mistake, I hated my team mates, but that's just proof of life as far as I'm concerned. They managed to irritate me in ways that only friends can, you know.

As for ME, it's sterile necrophiliac porn, and it really serves as a an example of the flaws of the artificial human, that much talked about uncanny valley effect.

 

[TheGreatDave]

GreatDave now that you are here, I asked you a question once in the Too Human thread and I didn't see your answer (if you answered at all) but I'm genuinely interested. You said that you skipped the cutscenes in Eternal Darkness, I wondered how this is possible as you seem to like Lycnhian vibes , I thought Lovecraft would fit in too. But I guess not?

Also I agree on the Gears writing, the guys always seemed to be really running along with you.

I can't take 99% of video game cutscenes seriously is the problem. I started watching Eternal Darkness but like with so many other games by the third or forth cut scene I started skipping them. Any time I'm expected to look at a character model and see it's lips barely move in sync to the words I just can't enjoy it. I think that's why I liked Gears so much; I never had to look at the characters talking to one another, so the acting itself was enough to pull off what they were trying to do.

Killer7 is the only game I could stand the cutscenes of, because the art style meant any flaws didn't really matter. When I see a crude looking army guy talking to Master Chief in Halo 3's opening I just immediately disconnect. I found Eternal Darkness to be interesting conceptually but I just couldn't connect.

 

[Pimpbaa]

No, Kojima Productions writes some of the worst dialogue in the industry, followed closely by Square.

 

[Kosma]

I can't take 99% of video game cutscenes seriously is the problem. I started watching Eternal Darkness but like with so many other games by the third or forth cut scene I started skipping them. Any time I'm expected to look at a character model and see it's lips barely move in sync to the words I just can't enjoy it. I think that's why I liked Gears so much; I never had to look at the characters talking to one another, so the acting itself was enough to pull off what they were trying to do.

Killer7 is the only game I could stand the cutscenes of, because the art style meant any flaws didn't really matter. When I see a crude looking army guy talking to Master Chief in Halo 3's opening I just immediately disconnect. I found Eternal Darkness to be interesting conceptually but I just couldn't connect.

Ok I can see where you're coming from there. What upcoming games which you are looking forward to do you think will have cutscenes that you think you're good enough to watch?

 

[JDSN]

Anyone that has played ZOE and MG knows that there is a mistake in the thread title.

Also, Valve is one of the best teams in terms of...well everything, but in terms of dialogs they are light years beyond most devs.

 

[Artanisix]

On the flip side, Tim Schafer's games have some of the best dialog around.

 

[Tabris]

BTW, does this count as "dialogue"?

I'm tired of everyone using this against FFX. It was a single badly written scene...

Compare with this (same game), complete spoilers don't see if you ever plan to play ffx:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPMFXfNk1IM (first 1:30 doesn't have dialogue)

The above is something you'll never see in an western game. Ever. Sadly.

 

[dude]

Hyperbole aside, I agree it's weird that I managed to miss so many quests. I did run around and talk to the NPCs I met (maybe in the wrong chapters then). I remember not having access to many areas on the worldmap though. Perhaps I somehow managed to miss entrances to some places or the installation didn't work properly. That happened to my Fallout 2 disc. Last questions regarding BG2, does an evil character have the same amount of quests/etc available as a good character in BG2? Do they get just as good items?

And I disagree with you regarding P:T, I think the story in that game would do very well if compared to movies and other media. But I have to admit it was some time ago since I last played it.

Your world map is empty until you are directed to a specific area. After you talk to people, they should direct you to interesting places (I was some where near 14th level when I finally left the city, I was after fights with a dragon, saved a city and owned my own keep.)

Playing evil character is suppose to be practical, I never really done it because I never wanted to play anyone evil (I mean, that's the first thing you learn - don't be evil.) There are some equipment and quests only evil characters can get and so on, so they did try and have some balance. The problem is the reputation system, basically every time yo do something good you gain reputation, that will lead to lowered prices, fame etc. Bad reputation, will mean the opposite (higher prices, for example), to the degree of people attacking you on sight, I guess that as long as by playing an evil character you don't mean slaughtering cities, you should be fine. The reputation also effects party member - evil ones will leave if your reputation is too good, and vise versa.

The above is something you'll never see in an western game. Ever. And thank god for that.

fixed.

 

[Xapati]

As for ME, it's sterile necrophiliac porn, and it really serves as a an example of the flaws of the artificial human, that much talked about uncanny valley effect.

:lol no. ME may not have perfect dialogue, but it's some of the most convincing ever. Uncanny valley is a bs theory, games like Heavenly sword have more realistic dialogue and as such should suffer even more from the uncanny valley effect, yet they don't.

 

[beelzebozo]

? Then why play games that take place in those genres and universes?

the two things aren't mutually exclusive (good writing and sci-fi/fantasy, i mean). it's perfectly feasible that a good story without hackneyed writing could be told in both cases; it just so happens that genre fiction attracts poor authors, since many of the keystones of the genre are already in place and ready to be iterated on.

 

[FoneBone]

No, it isn't. It's highly stylized, which is not the same thing at all. If RPGs are written by 14 year old girls, then MGS is the stuff of a 14 year old boy.

I'm actually at a loss to think of a game that isn't terrible in the writing department--except maybe God of War, which gets a bit of a pass due to its subject matter.

Psychonauts, definitely. And a ton of older adventure games (LucasArts' output in particular, though much of Infocom's stuff would probably apply.)