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It does. Out of all my friends, none of them were crazy about that game. I think it's fair to say a large number of people were disappointed by it, not just on GAF.

That's my opinion as well, even people I know who initially were hot on the title moved on fairly quickly.

Speaking personally, A+ for effort on Rockstar's part, but honestly I didn't find it at all enjoyable to play. But then I've never been a huge fan of previous GTA's.

I bought the game because I figured I ought to give it another shot, but it failed to convert me, in fact it just cemented my opinion that I really shouldn't bother in future.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I think this graph gives a great indication as to how much time people put in to GTA4... (not very much).

The vast majority of people have between 5-100G in the game. It seems they barely touched it.

 

[HiResDes]

People saying that its because the content was exclusive to the 360 have no clue what they are talking about, as statistical trends have indicated the content would have sold around the same or less on the PS3 if it were not platform exclusive. Some people are out to serve an agenda even when they have absolutely no basis to do so :lol

 

[DryvBy]

I would have bought these on PS3 (which I think is a huge issue: exclusives from 3rd parties), but I think it might be because the expansions didn't really add a new "worlds" for us to explore. Or better yet, kill cops and ho's in.

If they would have added maybe a new are to travel to, say a NJ or even farmland area for dirtbikin fun, that would have been more fun than more story.

EDIT: Also, San Andreas was a perfect model to base their game. Doing more goofy stuff like eating and getting fat, riding a bicycle, getting hair cuts and tats... they needed more of that in the original game and those expansions didn't add any of that.

 

[charlequin]

Wait... People actually do the MISSIONS in GTA games?

Wow

I know, right?

The GTA DLC may contain Oscar-worthy stories akin to the greatest works of Scorsese -- nay, Shakespeare -- but they don't actually give you new streets to drive on or new cars to drive on them with while you're blazed out of your fucking mind, which therefore makes them completely useless to 90+% of GTA's target demographic.

What the hell is this "GTA4 Backlash" that everyone seems to assume exists beyond the circumference of GAF?

Oh, it definitely exists well beyond the boundaries of GAF. I actually first got wind of just how badly people had reacted to the game from hearing from no fewer than six friends -- all far more casual gamers than I, none of whom read forums or follow game review scores -- bitch to me about how GTA4 had abandoned everything that made the series fun within the first week of release. It actually raised my opinion of GAF's crowd-wisdom to see it coming to the same conclusion that people were reaching about the game outside the interwebs.

I think this graph gives a great indication as to how much time people put in to GTA4... (not very much).

Just to suggest a small change to your thesis, a lot of these people could also be doing what, in my experience, was by far the dominant mode of play for the PS2 games -- i.e. mostly just dicking around doing silly shit for hours and not progressing on most of the plot missions.

 

[hauton]

I actually kinda think it would've sold better (not total sales, but relative) on the PS3 for a variety of reasons.

 

[Mooreberg]

It could be some people are getting bored of the GTA franchise now. Most people I know tend to played it for a little while when it came out and never finished it. Most gamers on my friends list barely have any achievements or trophies for the game. That might not be indicative of their play time, but it does make me wonder did people actually play it or kill a few cops after a few hours and put the game up forever.

The achievement point chart makes it seem like a lot of people didn't get very far with the missions. But at the same time it is usually in the top ten on the Xbox Live charts, and it is not like a competing franchise has stepped and encroached on its sales. Crackdown, Saints Row.... none of these are even close to GTA, let alone matching or surpassing it the way Call of Duty has come up on Halo.

They should probably just stick to full installments, and ditch the platform exclusive content.

 

[Iksenpets]

I think this graph gives a great indication as to how much time people put in to GTA4... (not very much).

The vast majority of people have between 5-100G in the game. It seems they barely touched it.

This chart basically explains it. Very, very few people actually finished GTA4. As someone who did finish it, it was a chore to do so. It was several hours too long for its own good. I'm playing Gay Tony right now and it's great so far, but GTA4 had overstayed its welcome just with what was on the disc.

 

[LevityNYC]

There are so many people on my friends list that only have the 5g achievement for only beating the first mission.

 

[conman]

The GTA DLC may contain Oscar-worthy stories akin to the greatest works of Scorsese -- nay, Shakespeare -- but they don't actually give you new streets to drive on or new cars to drive on them with while you're blazed out of your fucking mind, which therefore makes them completely useless to 90+% of GTA's target demographic.

Exactly. People don't want more missions. As that lovely graph shows, people aren't playing the game for the story. They want more shit to do.

I kept waiting for them to open the world up (more random tasks, more jumps, more vehicles, etc) with these DLC releases. Instead, they shove quest lines down our throat. That's not why people play GTA games. Seems like R* forgot what made the series great.

 

[Hellion]

I bought the episodes retail pack over the TRU buy 1 get 1 half off sale and tried gay Tony first liked it, then went and started The Lost for story purpuses... And have not touched it in since.

The next gta better be era based like vice city.

 

[gutter_trash]

what is the size of each DLC on the 360?

also factoring in how many 360s owners still have only a 20GB HDD and the army of Core owners

 

[StealthGoblin]

This chart basically explains it. Very, very few people actually finished GTA4. As someone who did finish it, it was a chore to do so. It was several hours too long for its own good. I'm playing Gay Tony right now and it's great so far, but GTA4 had overstayed its welcome just with what was on the disc.

I think the general gaming population felt it was disappointing (the base game that is). 90% of people with a HD console I know bought the game, but the vast majority of them said it was rather bland. There was no parachutes, chainsaws, shops, property etc. I don't want to sound cynical, but I'm not sure why they sucked so much fun from the formula. They could have kept the fun in and gone for the more 'realistic' approach at the same time. I bought the game for the PS3 and completed it relatively quickly, but I didn't enjoy much of it at all. The only missions that stick out in my mind are the bank job one and the chase of the gay guy on a scooter through the park.

Maybe that explains the low completion-ratio and therefore the lower than expected sales.

 

[speculawyer]

I think this graph gives a great indication as to how much time people put in to GTA4... (not very much).

The vast majority of people have between 5-100G in the game. It seems they barely touched it.

Vast majority? That is much less than half actually . . . start adding up the columns to the right of that.

It is hard to draw conclusions from the graph without more effort. For example, I've played all the way through the story lines of both GTA IV and TLaD but my score is only 370. They obviously have a lot of achievements for multiplayer, sidequests, obsession, etc.

 

[Shurs]

what is the size of each DLC on the 360?

also factoring in how many 360s owners still have only a 20GB HDD and the army of Core owners

Couldn't they just buy the disc version?

 

[Papercuts]

I can atleast say, for me, I was so burned from GTA4 that I never wanted to touch the additions, even though I heard they're much better. Maybe next time they won't blatantly lie about gameplay features.

 

[Zzoram]

I got stuck on a car chase a dozen or so missions after the Bank Job, when I was working for a seemingly endless string of mobsters that I couldn't keep track of. I didn't finish the game and didn't even want to play it after that. I feel like all the missions after the Bank Job were filler and they should've just cut to the ending soon after that.

 

[speculawyer]

This chart basically explains it. Very, very few people actually finished GTA4. As someone who did finish it, it was a chore to do so. It was several hours too long for its own good. I'm playing Gay Tony right now and it's great so far, but GTA4 had overstayed its welcome just with what was on the disc.

Obviously a lot of people did not finish but I think you are exaggerating it a bit. If I subtract out my TLAD points, then I finished GTA IV with a mere 240 GS points. So looking at that chart, it could be close to a 1/2 that finished it.

But the point that the main GTA IV story line was too long is well taken. Of course, the lesson that developers/publishers will learn is to make shorter games. Modern Warfare & Uncharted 2 are two very popular games with much shorter story lines . . . I guess that is what people will get from Rockstar in the future as well. So . . . prepare to get less for your money. Well, I guess you are already accepting it.

 

[Zzoram]

Obviously a lot of people did not finish but I think you are exaggerating it a bit. If I subtract out my TLAD points, then I finished GTA IV with a mere 240 GS points. So looking at that chart, it could be close to a 1/2 that finished it.

But the point that the main GTA IV story line was too long is well taken. Of course, the lesson that developers/publishers will learn is to make shorter games. Modern Warfare & Uncharted 2 are two very popular games with much shorter story lines . . . I guess that is what people will get from Rockstar in the future as well. So . . . prepare to get less for your money. Well, I guess you are already accepting it.

It's not "less" if it's quality. They blatantly padded out GTAIV with a ton of boring missions. If GTAIV came out as the same game, but with a lot of the weaker missions removed from the story, reducing the length by 1/3, I bet it would be remembered much more fondly, and still have the same amount of actual world content (in terms of stuff to do and size of city).

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

That's my opinion as well, even people I know who initially were hot on the title moved on fairly quickly.

Speaking personally, A+ for effort on Rockstar's part, but honestly I didn't find it at all enjoyable to play. But then I've never been a huge fan of previous GTA's.

I bought the game because I figured I ought to give it another shot, but it failed to convert me, in fact it just cemented my opinion that I really shouldn't bother in future.

And yet the cool dudes I know loved the game all the way through. Different strokes, etc. They were initially hot on the title, and then middle of the way hot on it, and then like three quarters of the way hot on it and then, woo, Jiffy Pop's ready!

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It's not "less" if it's quality. They blatantly padded out GTAIV with a ton of boring missions. If GTAIV came out as the same game, but with a lot of the weaker missions removed from the story, reducing the length by 1/3, I bet it would be remembered much more fondly, and still have the same amount of actual world content (in terms of stuff to do and size of city).

Yeah, people confuse game length with quality. I'd rather have a game with ten hours of straight quality that blows my mind over 20 hours of boring and repetitive.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

I think this graph gives a great indication as to how much time people put in to GTA4... (not very much).

The vast majority of people have between 5-100G in the game. It seems they barely touched it.

wait, is gamerscore / achievement data available to the general public by title?

If so: source for future reference would be very much appreciated.

 

[nyong]

People saying that its because the content was exclusive to the 360 have no clue what they are talking about, as statistical trends have indicated the content would have sold around the same or less on the PS3 if it were not platform exclusive. Some people are out to serve an agenda even when they have absolutely no basis to do so :lol

The only reason I purchased the 360 version of GTA IV was the promise of exclusive DLC. Even if I never bought said DLC.

 

[Takao]

They must also be sad at Chinatown Wars failing to light up the charts. Beaterator must have bombed hard on PSP, and the Apple platforms. And NHL 2K10 must have moved nothing, since it seems there won't be a 2K11.

 

[speculawyer]

Yeah, people confuse game length with quality. I'd rather have a game with ten hours of straight quality that blows my mind over 20 hours of boring and repetitive.

Well, that is fine with me. Paying a lot for a great game that only lasts 10 to 12 hours works for me. But I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed as games become shorter because the price is effectively going up. But I guess every game now comes with multi-player to extend the gameplay. And games like MW2 are probably primarily multi-player games for most people.

It's not "less" if it's quality. They blatantly padded out GTAIV with a ton of boring missions. If GTAIV came out as the same game, but with a lot of the weaker missions removed from the story, reducing the length by 1/3, I bet it would be remembered much more fondly, and still have the same amount of actual world content (in terms of stuff to do and size of city).

Yeah, they probably should have made many of the missions into sidequests instead of the main storyline.

Or . . . they could have saved them and used them for DLC. I'm glad they didn't do that since the new DLC is better than the main storyline missions.

 

[MrPing1000]

We all know God is a PC Gamer.

This is his revenge.

 

[charlequin]

And yet the cool dudes I know loved the game all the way through.

And yet the GTA episodes sold like crap because -- shock! -- most of the people who bought the game weren't like your friends and didn't give a shit about the story.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Pretty much everyone I know bought GTA4 including me. And including me, I don't know anyone who actually beat it or bought any of the DLC.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

And yet the GTA episodes sold like crap because -- shock! -- most of the people who bought the game weren't like your friends and didn't give a shit about the story.

*rubs eyes*
*extends neck forward*
"WHA-HUT??"

 

[Stumpokapow]

I don't think most people finished Vice City or San Andreas either. I'd highly doubt most San Andreas players even got to the first major plot twist where you leave the OG area and lose all your territory. I think most players don't finish most games, and sandbox games are probably finished a lot less frequently than most genres.

... and I think this is a great explanation for the limits of DLC. Why buy more when you haven't used what you've got?

So I agree that people not really needing more GTA4 is probably the reason for the relatively limited appeal of the DLC, but I don't think it's because of backlash against GTA4 so much as it's ust a limit to adding more content to a 30+ hour game.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I don't think most people finished Vice City or San Andreas either. I'd highly doubt most San Andreas players even got to the first major plot twist where you leave the OG area and lose all your territory. I think most players don't finish most games, and sandbox games are probably finished a lot less frequently than most genres.

... and I think this is a great explanation for the limits of DLC. Why buy more when you haven't used what you've got?

So I agree that people not really needing more GTA4 is probably the reason for the relatively limited appeal of the DLC, but I don't think it's because of backlash against GTA4 so much as it's ust a limit to adding more content to a 30+ hour game.

Totally agreed. I never made it past the first city in San Andreas. GTAIV was the first GTA I ever finished.

 

[SapientWolf]

We all know God is a PC Gamer.

This is his revenge.

How do you explain the PC port of GTAIV then? Why would he allow that abomination to be brought into existence?

 

[sadaiyappan]

I think GTA4 main game was too long and I didn't like the main character Niko or his story (although that cut scene were you finally kill or let live the guy you were searching for is very satisfying). Same with the add ons, I don't really want to be a biker or a gay clubber. They should have just stuck with an average cool guy or average bad ass criminal like GTA3. I think they wanted to do something different and so they went with Niko which was a mistake.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I think GTA4 main game was too long and I didn't like the main character Niko or his story (although that cut scene were you finally kill or let live the guy you were searching for is very satisfying). Same with the add ons, I don't really want to be a biker or a gay clubber. They should have just stuck with an average cool guy or average bad ass criminal like GTA3. I think they wanted to do something different and so they went with Niko which was a mistake.

The "clubber" isn't "gay" as is frequently and explicitly shown.

 

[Psy-Phi]

People saying that its because the content was exclusive to the 360 have no clue what they are talking about, as statistical trends have indicated the content would have sold around the same or less on the PS3 if it were not platform exclusive. Some people are out to serve an agenda even when they have absolutely no basis to do so :lol

But that would mean more sales right? It would have sold better, just because people on X360 would have bought it as well as PS3 (and they should have released it on PC too...it's coming, the last patch revealed that much, but when is anyone's guess).

It wouldn't have sold less on x360 if it were available elsewhere...so not being exclusive could only have helped. I know I'd have bought it, and that's one sale they don't have yet.

 

[Shurs]

So I agree that people not really needing more GTA4 is probably the reason for the relatively limited appeal of the DLC, but I don't think it's because of backlash against GTA4 so much as it's ust a limit to adding more content to a 30+ hour game.

While I understand what you're saying, and I don't have any numbers to back up my claim, wasn't the DLC released for Fallout 3, which is another long game, considered a success?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

The "clubber" isn't "gay" as is frequently and explicitly shown.

Indeed, I don't know how anyone could think this unless they totally ignored all the media, which is probably what happened. Luis got all kinds of pussy.

 

[charlequin]

I don't think most people finished Vice City or San Andreas either. I'd highly doubt most San Andreas players even got to the first major plot twist where you leave the OG area and lose all your territory. I think most players don't finish most games, and sandbox games are probably finished a lot less frequently than most genres.

I don't see how this is particularly at odds with the backlash thing. I don't think anyone is suggesting that people didn't buy the DLC because they were mad at GTA4 and didn't want to ever play anything like it ever again, but rather that the reasons for the backlash (genre that has never been about narrative abandoning its gameplay roots to inexplicably focus on story) arise from the same root as the reasons for the poor DLC sales (i.e. the DLC only adds more of the thing people didn't care about or want in the first place.)

 

[bloodydrake]

I think it was the lack of fun in the core game that turned people off.
I finished the game with a measly 240gamerpoints couldn't believe just how unsatisfying an experience it was.It was a gorgeous world simulator with nothing noteworthy for shits and giggles to do in it.

I have heard they improved upon some of the mechanics of Grand Theft Cab in the addons by including basic features like Checkpoints during missions but it wasn't enough for me to want to put my Nuts in a vice again to see if I could enjoy it.

 

[spons]

Rockstar should stop bragging about the perceived quality of their games and make sure that the next GTA actually has an interesting city and story. GTA 4 was just bland as shit.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Rockstar should stop bragging about the perceived quality of their games and make sure that the next GTA actually has an interesting city and story. GTA 4 was just bland as shit.

I don't think they were the ones bragging about an "Oscar Worthy" story or anything.

 

[Dabanton]

Rockstar should stop bragging about the perceived quality of their games and make sure that the next GTA actually has an interesting city and story. GTA 4 was just bland as shit.

No it wasn't. The city was the star of the show the depth of the city was amazing and very interesting having played the game for hours and learning every street and back alley. And having played both DLC's to completion. The way the story was finally brought together showing you new sides to characters was excellent.

I don't think they were the ones bragging about an "Oscar Worthy" story or anything.

Yeah, it was IGN and that seems to have stuck,and used as justification that R* themselves actually said that.

 

[intheinbetween]

I actually kinda think it would've sold better (not total sales, but relative) on the PS3 for a variety of reasons.

I'm intrigued, what reasons?

 

[Neuromancer]

Very, very few people actually finished GTA4. As someone who did finish it, it was a chore to do so. It was several hours too long for its own good.

Chore? It felt more like having a second job to me. The relief I felt when it was over was the best thing about that game. Nowadays I don't know that I'd even finish it, I'm less tolerant of games that I don't have fun with, than I was back then.

In closing: Saint's Row, bitches! Volition is a company that knows how to put together a fun game.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Chore? It felt more like having a second job to me. The relief I felt when it was over was the best thing about that game. Nowadays I don't know that I'd even finish it, I'm less tolerant of games that I don't have fun with, than I was back then.

In closing: Saint's Row, bitches! Volition is a company that knows how to put together a fun game.

No matter how bad GTAIV was, it was better than a bug-ridden glitch-fest that was SR2

don't get ahead of yourself.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I don't see how this is particularly at odds with the backlash thing. I don't think anyone is suggesting that people didn't buy the DLC because they were mad at GTA4 and didn't want to ever play anything like it ever again, but rather that the reasons for the backlash (genre that has never been about narrative abandoning its gameplay roots to inexplicably focus on story) arise from the same root as the reasons for the poor DLC sales (i.e. the DLC only adds more of the thing people didn't care about or want in the first place.)

Right, obviously DLC that was focused around types of things to do would have been a different selling proposition than DLC focused around new story chapters, my only point was that I don't think this has anything to do with people not liking that aspect of GTA4, and more to do with the fact that whether they liked it or not, they probably didn't finish the game and thus wouldn't need more content.

I would be highly surprised if more than 10% or so of players of any open world game finish the game.

 

[Hazmat]

I think this graph gives a great indication as to how much time people put in to GTA4... (not very much).

The vast majority of people have between 5-100G in the game. It seems they barely touched it.

I agree that most people don't play the missions in GTA games and that definitely hurt the DLC sales, but getting achievement points in GTA4 is a fucker. I beat it and I have 325 points, and those aren't all main story achievements either. Looking at my achievement list, I think you could beat the game with around 135 points.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

Not surprised the expansions have bombed. The game is boring, frustrating and tedious when playing through story missions. Technically GTA4 may be better than Saints Row, but who cares if it's no fun to play? I'll take Saints Row's glitches and bugs and unpolished gameplay over GTA4 any day because it's just so much more fun to play.

 

[adamsapple]

Did Gay Tony bomb in general, or was it just the retail release that suffered ? because it's a travesty, Gay Tony's additions to the GTA IV world are awesome.

 

[Fortinbras]

Maybe R* should put more effort in creating less frustrating gaming experiences. I did not finish the main game because the shoot outs felt like playing a 3rd person shooter in slow motion. Granted I'm not really good in these games but I liked the world, the characters and the story. However I did not like how the check points were placed. You have to repeat whole missions including all of the driving. The DLC has mid mission checkpoints however you still have to do a lot of the driving until you reach the point were you actually failed the mission.