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[clarky]

Not sure if already mentioned, but MGSV did it the best way.
During the Hospital mission, while Snake is still in bed, the doctor asks you to look up so he can check your reaction and reflexes story wise, but the game will set normal or inverted in the background depending on the direction the player pushes the stick.
It's one of these little details that scream top notch game design.

Halo CE did something similar.

 

[Madserb2023]

I can play using normal controls without much difficulty after a while but I just prefer using inverted controls especially if something is fast paced. It's one of the great gaming mysteries. Inverted is basically the left handedness of gaming. What's even more strange is that it only applies to using an anologue stick. Would never invert a mouse.

 

[Crayon]

Is there not a standard options template that every dev uses? Missing this off is bad.



Listen, BlackWrong. I knew someone was going to go with this argument before I even clicked it, and it might have been you the last time it came up.

I grew up on N64's inverted FPSs too. I used to prefer it but now I can't stand it.

When you move your muscles, you aren't consciously choosing to contract muscle groups that affect the body part you want to move, you just do it. When you or the character need to look up, you look up. You don't think about pulling down first. This isn't QWOP where you control each limb on its own. Most act as if they are the character, not as if the right stick controls a puppet's head from a top down perspective. That puppet - the external control, is why aircraft controls aren't the same as character control for those that invert there alone. We all know that it's a conscious movement to push or pull a flight stick, or whatever the proper name is.

Logically it doesn't hold up past up/down, either. Turning left of right doesn't move your neck infinite degrees, but it does in a game. Therefore the camera/look stick is not a neck control, it's a direct control of where you want to look independent of any specific muscular group.

Then you move onto third person cameras where there could be more arguments either way, but it gets even less consistent. Intuitive controls and consistency are key, which is why non-inverted as become standard across the board. It's still absurd that this game doesn't have the option though, even inverted X should be there despite how ridiculous that is.

It's obvious you disagree, but the way you are doing it isn't helping your case.

 

[Js562]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/invert

Noun[edit]​

invert (plural inverts)

1. (obsolete, psychology) A homosexual, in terms of the sexual inversion theory.

Lmao maybe that's why

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

good, y'all inverted witches should be burned at the stake!

 

[kiphalfton]

Hold the controller upside down. There fixed.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I hope you know what you have unleashed OP...

Now with a poll!

 

[SEGAvangelist]

I love it when console settings auto invert.

 

[R6Rider]

Invert Y Axis gang rise up.

 

[KillaJamm]

I think the main point for flying is you are using the controls on a '3D plane' so push and pull is more appropriate and feels natural, where as in video games it's more of a '2D plane' so it's up and down instead of push and pull if you get what I mean. Also note I did 5 mins of research on Google so this may be bollocks, all I know is flying controls even in video games are always inverted for me but for anything else it has to be normal, just how my brain works.

 

[Soodanim]

It appears to me that if you don't like inverted controls, everyone someone says who defends them is going to be wrong for some reason or another even if "points" need to be contrived on the spot and it's just gonna devolve into paragraphs of shit. I mean, you just told me that being intuitive and consistent is key. That only works if you decide what is intuitive and then decide to make that consistent across all genres.

I respect non-inverted players to use their scheme, but this attitude about inverted players being wrong is really starting to piss me off. Look, when I'm playing a flight game and I pull up, I get the sensation that I'm pulling a lever that extends all the way down the nose of my aircraft, making the nose angle up. I get the same sensation when I pull back on the stick and the muzzle of my gun sticks up in the exact same way. How's that for "consistency". Don't like it, that's perfectly fine. But if you call me disabled for it you can seriously fuck yourself.

Don't be like that hunny bunny, it's all good in the hood, inverted lives matter

 

[Muffdraul]

Inverted was considered standard for years, because back in the day the vast majority of first person video games had you piloting a plane or a space ship. And it just stuck because we got used to it. Then weird little millennials were born who didn't understand anything about the world and thought pubic hair was icky, and they fucking ruined everything!

 

[NickFire]

Inverted for life.

 

[Dacvak]

Its personal preference and I would imagine easy for the developers to implement, so why not?

How dare you bring a reasonable take to this thread!
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

 

[BlackTron]

The reason pilots go forward to go down and backwards to go up is because of simple physics and the g-force applied for each action, they would not be able to push the stick forwards to go up as the force applied on them is coming from the exact opposite direction,

This is the stupidest thing in the entire thread (perhaps even stupidest of the day/week) and just proves you guys are making stuff up and pulling shit out of your ass while you go along.

I now respect people who take the time to defend non-inverted controls less thanks to all the stupidity they display while doing so, thanks. There's no motivation to spend my time breaking down or disproving this brain-dead display knowing that I'm engaging a mind that came up with this idea and then presented it as fact. It's pointless.

 

[BlackTron]

Don't be like that hunny bunny, it's all good in the hood, inverted lives matter

Take your patronizing schlock and shove it.

By the way, I voted I can generally play either way.

That's not the point, the point is a bunch of holier-than-thou gamers who think they get to insult and demean someone else because they don't have the same preference.

This reminds me of when I tried to convince someone to try and play a FPS game with WASD instead of arrow keys. It just seemed so obvious. They're arrows! Why would you map it to...letters! Am I crazy?! That must be a fucking disability option! May as well mock WASD to death, arrow keys are normal for direction buttons. And consistency is important, so if it worked for Chip's Challenge, why change it for Half-Life? In theory it may seem ridiculous to explain to a layperson, but no one who actually used WASD is switching to arrow keys. These people who insult others for using inverted controls have a similar mental blockage against how anything other than what they know could ever make sense, and it's about equally unintentionally embarrassing.

 

[Soodanim]

Invert Y Axis gang rise up.

You mean rise down

 

[Neo_GAF]

Idk, normal people?

If you look up in real life, you pull your head back. If you look down in real life, you push your head forward. For some, this natural way of things has been reinforced in games since playing Goldeneye, and changing it is like switching hands.

one and done.
i really dont know why they switched it with "push up to look up" makes absolutely zero sense and i hate it to go to settings first in a game to switch this shit, before actually starting the game.

 

[missiles]

Until Dawn didn't have an invert Y option when it first launched, I couldn't play it until they patched it. This is hardwired for me since playing games like Afterburner in the arcade and Zzoom on the ZX Spectrum.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Not sure if already mentioned, but MGSV did it the best way.
During the Hospital mission, while Snake is still in bed, the doctor asks you to look up so he can check your reaction and reflexes story wise, but the game will set normal or inverted in the background depending on the direction the player pushes the stick.
It's one of these little details that scream top notch game design.

 

[R6Rider]

Until Dawn didn't have an invert Y option when it first launched, I couldn't play it until they patched it. This is hardwired for me since playing games like Afterburner in the arcade and Zzoom on the ZX Spectrum.

I remember the Splinter Cell trilogy on PS3 was also like this.

Except it never got patched.

 

[thismeinteil]

Idk, normal people?

If you look up in real life, you pull your head back. If you look down in real life, you push your head forward. For some, this natural way of things has been reinforced in games since playing Goldeneye, and changing it is like switching hands.

When I look up I'm lifting my head and eyes up. Both down when I look down. Your neck muscles are controlling which way your head moves, not some imaginary stick on the top of your head.

 

[simpatico]

I think a lot of early 3D games defaulted to invert so I already had the muscle memory before having the chance to change it. I can't even get around in non inverted games.

 

[MarkyG]

I've been gaming for over 30 years. Always had my mouse inverted. Anything other than that is totally alien to me. I also have a friend who still uses cursor keys for movement. Old habits die hard.

 

[BlackTron]

When I look up I'm lifting my head and eyes up. Both down when I look down. Your neck muscles are controlling which way your head moves, not some imaginary stick on the top of your head.

We can argue the minutiae of the specific points all day, but okay, you've made your point. Miyamoto was wrong, and you were right. We get it.

 

[Chuck Berry]

If you're not flying a plane, why? Why would anyone use this?

Think of your head as the head of a joystick. You pull down the joystick to look up. You move it up to look down.

Once it was explained like that to me it all made sense and Ive never looked back

Invert Y and kiss my ballbag.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

If they are "normal people" why the name of that setting is called "INVERTED" and not "normal"?

its called INVERTED because RETARDED wouldnt pass certification.

 

[BigLee74]

When I look up I'm lifting my head and eyes up. Both down when I look down. Your neck muscles are controlling which way your head moves, not some imaginary stick on the top of your head.

So there you have it. The stick is controlling your neck muscles.

Fuckin’ hell.

We all have our preferences. All are correct (apart from yours). This just proves how wrong the dev is not to cater for both.

 

[BigLee74]

Now the real question is, who in their right mind inverts the x axis, and why?

 

[thismeinteil]

We can argue the minutiae of the specific points all day, but okay, you've made your point. Miyamoto was wrong, and you were right. We get it.

Lol, I didn't know Miyamoto was the final word on everything gaming. BTW, how are the Normal controls setup on Mario Odyssey?

Also, using your argument about the head stick, shouldn't moving the stick left or right just tilt the camera to one side while keeping the camera facing forward? I mean that's what it would do if there was a stick on the top of your head?

 

[Kaleinc]

Push your head forward. It goes down. Pull your head back. It goes up.

The stick on the controller rotates the same way as your head atop your neck. It's not like a mouse on a flat plane.

Inverted is objectively correct.

Push your head forward - it goes forward
Up - goes up, down - goes down
When you press up arrow while writing a post you go a line up, down arrow - a line down

Inverted sickos are a new breed of flat earthers

Just like inverted color is meant for shit and giggles and very specific cases, not for basic viewing

 

[BlackTron]

Lol, I didn't know Miyamoto was the final word on everything gaming. BTW, how are the Normal controls setup on Mario Odyssey?

Also, using your argument about the head stick, shouldn't moving the stick left or right just tilt the camera to one side while keeping the camera facing forward? I mean that's what it would do if there was a stick on the top of your head?

I walked into this thread thinking equality of preferences for everyone, but I'm staggered by how lobotomizing the conduct is of the pro-non-inverted crowd. It's a massive steaming pile of logical fallacies and bad faith arguments.

Certainly, you left triggered emojis on enough posts to have clearly had the opportunity to know these points were already covered in the thread.

Mario Odyssey doesn't even have aiming so I assume there is some sort of intentional non-equivalence going on there.

As for the "head stick", in fact that would require the ability to literally pivot/rotate the stick to create some sort of equivalent effect.

Whether Miyamoto is the final word or not, fact is that's how he made his games, even Ocarina of Time, so we know his opinion on it. But of course, let's change that to the question of whether he gets the final word (a strawman fallacy).

Guys I don't want to tear down your bad faith arguments and fallacies all day. Fact is, it's a preference that goes all the way back to Shigeru Miyamoto. Anyone should be able to respect that preference one way or another. All this effort to prove the other camp "wrong" (mostly non-inverted types having a problem) points to some sort of petty mental illness that you need to get over. Indeed, despite the fact that I see non-inverted becoming default as a symptom of the dumbification of gaming, I have no issue with it and just let people play however they want. I don't care. I take issue with non-inverted types having no respect for another's preference and calling it a "you problem" or "sickos". Fucking kids.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Can't imagine using non-inverted controls. Just unnatural. Think of it like holding an object to rotate it in your field of view - if you roll it back towards you, you see what's "ahead" and the inverse is also true.

 

[BlackTron]

its called INVERTED because RETARDED wouldnt pass certification.

I'm astonished by how many people here I would have thought were adults are actually kids. I'm going to have to start treating GAF like it's Tiktok. I mean like even start swearing less often. It's not appropriate around you kiddos

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I'm astonished by how many people here I would have thought were adults are actually kids. I'm going to have to start treating GAF like it's Tiktok. I mean like even start swearing less often. It's not appropriate around you kiddos

You don’t need to take it so personally and respond to every ignoramus, you can just rest easy in the knowledge you’re right and there’s certainly nothing wrong with different control preferences.

You touched on this, but I think something that gets confusing with the airplane analogy and stick in your head analogy is that a joystick in an airplane controls pitch and roll axes, whereas FPS camera joystick controls deal with pitch and yaw axes. The stick y axis pitch control works the same as an airplane when inverted, but the stick x axis is a totally different control axis, hence the confusion around why the x axis shouldn’t also be inverted.

In an airplane it’s different, the lever is like a representation of your upright body and you manipulate it in the direction you wish to rotate. Rudder pedals are used for yaw, or sometimes with consumer joysticks you can twist them for yaw which is a perfect 1 to 1 recreation of the plane’s movements. To achieve the same logical consistency in an FPS scheme you would have to imagine the stick is in the back of your head rather than upright, and the x axis would also need to be inverted.

However, It just doesn’t matter if it’s consistent or not, it’s a control preference. I used to be 100% inverted then one day it didn’t make sense and I had to switch to standard. No sense in trying to claim superiority one way or another (not that you ever did!), it’s just arbitrary. Don’t worry about the drive-by’s they’re just trolling.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Yep I use inverted controls.


Can't play a game without them.

 

[kurisu_1974]

Inverted because you are moving in a 3D plane. I would not invert controls in a 2D game.

 

[fersnake]

now im confused, gonna launch some games

 

[Raonak]

Good. don't normalise the mentally ill.

Think of your head as the head of a joystick. You pull down the joystick to look up. You move it up to look down.

Once it was explained like that to me it all made sense and Ive never looked back

Invert Y and kiss my ballbag.

OK, so why wouldn't you also do the same for left/right? Surely it should also follow the "stick at the back of your head" logic.
Up = Down, Left = Right.

There's no logical reason to have different inversion settings for left/right vs up/down.

 

[R6Rider]

Good. don't normalise the mentally ill.



OK, so why wouldn't you also do the same for left/right? Surely it should also follow the "stick at the back of your head" logic.
Up = Down, Left = Right.

There's no logical reason to have different inversion settings for left/right vs up/down.

 

[Syphon Filter]

inverted is weird and doesnt make sense.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

how do inverted people feel about pressing the jump button with a finger instead of a toe?

 

[poppabk]

Good. don't normalise the mentally ill.



OK, so why wouldn't you also do the same for left/right? Surely it should also follow the "stick at the back of your head" logic.
Up = Down, Left = Right.

There's no logical reason to have different inversion settings for left/right vs up/down.

Depends where you are imagining the stick relative to the pivot. In front of the pivot point, inverted up down only, behind the pivot point, both axis inverted.

 

[havoc00]

Is the game any good?

 

[Majormaxxx]

I won't play if normal controls are not available especially on the x axis

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Inverted should be a disability option

As an inverted-only cripple, I would sensibly chuckle again. 7/10.

 

[Rippa]

To the naysayers:

Pretend for a moment that the top of your head is a thumb stick.

Place your thumb on the top of your head and push forward; where does your face point?

Now, pull back on the top of your head; where does your face point?

You’re welcome.

 

[Ywap]

A game without invert y-axis is unplayable to me.

 

[Umbral]

I can think of 2 modern games without an invert option. Zone of the Enders and now Teardown. Congratulations.

I’ll save my energy instead of explaining to you swine why invert is correct. Trouble us not with your insipid chatter.

 

[Ribi]

wait until OP realized that Bethesda still releases game without a FOV slider or that Capcom releases games without mouse input.