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TechCrunch: "Xbox One is Microsoft's Spruce Goose"
- Thread starter hooijdonk17
- Start date
ThisWreckage
Banned
Months ago I said that Microsoft was going to try to make the next Xbox the iPhone of the living room. Little did I know, they're actually stupid enough to try it. People are dropping cable and they're watching less and less television. Microsoft is backing a device that requires a cable box when a lot of people don't subscribe to cable and the ones that do are dropping it. It makes zero sense and this sounds like something that should have been green lit ten years ago.
Yes lets add cameras to everything! Next up, the toilet.
I think its amazing that the WiiU have a tv remote build in.
And a terrific web browser.
I think its incredible. Nobody else feels the same way.
Everybody keeps saying "WHERE TEH GAMES" and i "but guys... this browser is better than my tablet"
It seems when people buy a videogame they want a videogame. I dont think that, for starters, it will be easy for microsoft to tell people the XBone is more than this and they need it
And a terrific web browser.
I think its incredible. Nobody else feels the same way.
Everybody keeps saying "WHERE TEH GAMES" and i "but guys... this browser is better than my tablet"
It seems when people buy a videogame they want a videogame. I dont think that, for starters, it will be easy for microsoft to tell people the XBone is more than this and they need it
It depends on how well the Xbox One does in comparison to other gaming devices over the course of these next few years I think.
I mean, being the only console with WatchESPN on top of having a partnership with NFL could be big for sports fans. We'll see what happens though.
Heh, first of all that (the bold) is opinion. On top of that, I don't see how anyone could say that at this stage when neither console has shown their full lineups of exclusive games.
On top of that, there's a HUGE portion of people that only care about sports games and shooters and the majority of these games are available on both consoles. At that point, a person deciding between one console over the other will more than likely look at the features/services of both and then choose what to get.
I think it comes down to price ultimately. If the Xone is price competitive with the PS4, people aren't going to pick a PS4 over a Xone just because it has TV functionality that they don't care about. I think we take our use cases, motivations, etc, and extrapolate them out to casuals and less "hardcore" core gamers too much. By the time most people figure out that selling used games is a clusterfuck on the Xone, they'll already have one in their living room.
I'm not saying there's no reason to pick a PS4 over a Xone, just that "Xone has features I don't want but just can't ignore!" probably isn't one of them.
I'm not saying there's no reason to pick a PS4 over a Xone, just that "Xone has features I don't want but just can't ignore!" probably isn't one of them.
Where did MS actually present a compelling solution to this? The fact that they use HDMI-CEC and IR blaster for controlling the cable receiver means this 100% won't be able to replace existing remotes. Buying a Logitech Harmony would actually allow people to control all devices using a single remote, Xbone won't.
All Xbone will do is add another interface layer that has to be controlled using an additional remote (Controller) or using voice/gesture commands. Microsoft is trying to sell people on the merits of sideshow content.
They won't have self-publishing for indies, that alone is going to hamper their lineup. In addition, MS seems to be spending less on exclusive developments than on this NFL deal.
I think the bigger question is cable's viability.
BUT THEN even with TV and cable doing pretty great there's the question of if this functionality actually appeals to many people. This is where phones/tablets really can and likely do undercut this strategy: they serve a similar supplemental purpose as it is. Who wants a multihundred dollar box for that?
He's definitely wrong, but there is the greater point of how this advertised functionality basically doesn't exist if you don't have cable. At that point it's just a more powerful and more restrictive Xbox 360 with pie in the sky promises about cloud computing. And Kinect always watching, always listening.
bigtroyjon
Member
Proof please. Would love to see someone give some actual evidence for this repeated myth that gets posted over and over in every thread.
There's already a collection effort going on for confirmed PS4 games:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59363377&postcount=153
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
You need an HD cable box connected to the xbone to watch TV on the xbone
So after years of "indie games on XBLA not mattering" (exclusive retail game discussions), indie games suddenly do now?
Overall, as long as they have good games (whether AAA or not) & good 3rd party support, they should be fine.
Wasn't it said that they were making a $1 Billon bet on Xbox One games -- more than double the price of that $400 million NFL deal?
I think there's plenty of TV watchers who would benefit from the voice controls in the Xbox One - my wife and son would both get significant use out of it I'm sure and we don't have plans to nix our cable subscription anytime soon. And there are a lot of people in the same boat as us.
Now, that's assuming it works as advertised, which I don't think it will. It's also not something I would buy the box exclusively for. But for ancillary use, sure it would get some use, assuming it's bulletproof. And again, given the channel layout at the multitude of cable networks (And the SD/HD/geographical derivations of numerous channels), I think it's more likely to be a PITA than a boon to most people at release.
Time will tell.
Now, that's assuming it works as advertised, which I don't think it will. It's also not something I would buy the box exclusively for. But for ancillary use, sure it would get some use, assuming it's bulletproof. And again, given the channel layout at the multitude of cable networks (And the SD/HD/geographical derivations of numerous channels), I think it's more likely to be a PITA than a boon to most people at release.
Time will tell.
Yes I know that, but he said that the Xbox One requires a cable box to function.
It doesn't require a cable box - it's an added feature for those who won't get rid of their cable.
People want to be able to put content through their TV and home theatre. TV sets are getting bigger and bigger. People are going out less to the movies. To say the living room is becoming irrelevant is wrong. Just because they're watching less TV that doesn't mean they're not using the screen to view content. MS wants to be the centre of that. Maybe giving people options is what the device is about.
People are getting way too wrapped up in thinking "It only does one or two things." All of these "Journalist" reports harp on about TV and Sports but they are still massive parts of people's daily lives. Just because people consume media in a different way, does not mean MS should abandon a group of their potential userbase that focuses on watching TV and sports.
They do have loads to prove at E3, so that will be very telling if many of these articles focus around what MS has been very good at and that is making good games and increasing their userbase with many different offering to suit different groups of people.
They do have loads to prove at E3, so that will be very telling if many of these articles focus around what MS has been very good at and that is making good games and increasing their userbase with many different offering to suit different groups of people.
ThisWreckage
Banned
If you want to use its tv features you have to have cable. That's what they were touting at their conference. The Xbox One would be infinitely more attractive if it were truly an all-in-one jack of all trades box. But it's not. It is not a DVR, for one, and I thought that was a major mistake on their part. It's pretty much a box that overlays a skin/theme over your cable television. Do you want to be able to use all of its features? You better have cable. Otherwise, they're shutting you out. You'll pay the same price everyone else did, but if you don't have cable then you're not going to get the full feature set.
Yes, but you stated that a cable box is required for the Xbox One to function.
Guess it was a mistake then.
I think the main questions is whether the features for cable TV Microsoft is adding are actually relevant: They don't seem interesting to me.
It's obviously not about "giving people options" but about locking up even third-party services like cable TV inside their ecosystem in the eyes of the consumer. They want to force people to interact with their interface as much as possible.
shinra-bansho
Member
It's not about television surviving. Big screen televisions are going nowhere (although, live TV is I imagine going the way of the dodo eventually). No one is arguing that everyone is throwing out their television sets and replacing them with iPads.
But the point of the Trojan Horse into the living room, and controlling the television screen, was to control an ecosystem that they feared could supplant that which they had a monopoly over - PCs. It's evident in the features touted this still seems to be their aim. They finally have Windows on your TV and want you to internet explorer and bing and Skype.
What the continuance of this strategy doesn't acknowledge is that televisions weren't the device that ended up supplanting the PC. Android and iOS are winning (or have won) the war with regard to those devices. And in the grand scheme of things, even if they do finally find themselves in Troy, they won't find Helen there.
hooijdonk17
Member
Bingo.
Microsoft are still trying to take over your living room - but that's been done; Apple and Google have already done this by making the TV and livingroom obsolete with one fell swoop. They gave us mobile gadgets that do everything we need for casual computing.
All that the Xbone can achieve, if it can achieve that, is to take over the TV. And the TV no longer rules the living room. People turn on the TV and pick up their phones/tablets and fiddle with those with the TV in the background. It's not long before we get to pick TV content and stream right onto TVs from those gadgets, rendering all Xbone novelties obsolete.
Personally I don't care too much about the TV offerings, since I rarely sit down and watch TV. If they can combine what people have and overlay it with a less clunky UI, plus tie in the other features of the XBone like the snapping stuff in the UI and all of the other media features they will have, it should do well. Not a massive gamechanger but if it just makes things a little easier, that is fine by me.
I want the games first and everything else is secondary.
ThisWreckage
Banned
It was a mistake. I was talking about their tv functionality. It makes zero sense to me. They're hedging their bets on most of their consumers having cable so they can fully utilize the feature set of the machine. What about people that live in dorms? How will they utilize their glittery tv themes?
Sony wants the living room too, but they understand the importance of placing video games front and center. When it comes to television people do not have attention spans. 14 year olds can't even watch an entire television episode without fiddling with their tablets or smart phones, yet they'll play games for hours upon hours. Video games is probably the only medium remaining where a lot of people actually focus their undivided attention on it.
It's not forcing people to interact with their interface - nobody has to hook it up. Apple isn't forcing people to use their interface - there are a myriad of ways to consume media, but iPad is popular because it provides a neat, comfortable interface in which to consume that media. MS is trying for the same thing with the big screen.
Pretty much my view in a nutshell - you don't have to use these things and many won't. If five percent of US households adopts it they'll have a hit.
Cross post from another related thread.
IMO, Xbone is flawed plan with flawed execution. IR blasters? UI overlay? Which doesn't even integrate well with DVRs? MS is betting heavily on voice control, a strategy easily countered by a much cheaper Apple TV with Siri. Not to mention that there's no chance for the Xbone to compete with the annual refresh of Smart TV models in terms of specs and features. The solution to simplify TV has already been found. And it can be downloaded for free on the Google Play Store right now.
It's a product that is at least 5 years late to the market. A concept that i just can't see adding enough value to be relevant in the near future when media consumption is trending towards portable screens. As for cases that requires the use of big screens, new technology like Miracast bypasses the need for a media hub altogether.
IMO, Xbone is flawed plan with flawed execution. IR blasters? UI overlay? Which doesn't even integrate well with DVRs? MS is betting heavily on voice control, a strategy easily countered by a much cheaper Apple TV with Siri. Not to mention that there's no chance for the Xbone to compete with the annual refresh of Smart TV models in terms of specs and features. The solution to simplify TV has already been found. And it can be downloaded for free on the Google Play Store right now.
It's a product that is at least 5 years late to the market. A concept that i just can't see adding enough value to be relevant in the near future when media consumption is trending towards portable screens. As for cases that requires the use of big screens, new technology like Miracast bypasses the need for a media hub altogether.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
oh... well for that conference it did =p
10101
Gold Member
You never mentioned blu ray in you first post. Plus you could also argue that for the PS3/4 as well.
Tell me then if the features of a smart TV are not worth the extra cost what makes the xbone so compelling? My point is that if people are into using their TV for this type of thing then they can already choose an "all-in-one" device - a smart TV. The xbone doesn't really converge anything it's just an expensive overlay for existing products, with a console thrown in.
I'm not sure if they would do DVR on my Sky box the content is locked down hard, can't see cable providers wanting an external box recording all their premium content. It would also need a bigger drive for HD, mine has 1TB and is still too small :/
ThisWreckage
Banned
Actually, Apple does force people to use their interface. There's almost no customization outside of wallpaper.
I'm confused. It isn't nor was it ever really promised as the one device that can do everything.
My point was if you buy an iPad, you're not forced to use it if you're sitting near a desktop computer. If you're not using an iPad, you're not using it's interface.
The same way with the xbone - you can ignore the cable integration if you want by running the cable output into your receiver and still have a compelling device that can control your online media consumption. Or you can just play games on it.
Heh, those in the dorms may not even able to use the system. I guess Microsoft could try pushing for dorms to make an exception here, but that could make the frat boy audience literally unattainable if they can't guarantee an exception at most colleges. It just makes their overall plan look more and more... not even shortsighted, but some horrific mix of looking too far into the future yet sticking with plans applicable to the past.
I think it also helps that within Sony's line of products it makes more sense: they want you to get their TVs, watch their movies on their players, listen to music on their players, basically use them for most of your media consumption. Video games are not only a much more logical extension of this than video games and computing, but optical media also long made for fantastic game formats due to their sheer size, the only time they actually miscalculated there was with the PSP, and their biggest problem was expecting people would buy into the format, not necessarily the format being inherently bad for games; good programmers got around the loading well enough, and it took until the 3DS before physical media of larger size was affordable... and that's still likely more expensive than those UMDs.
Trent Strong
Banned
Well, 90% of Americans have cable, so that's a pretty good bet.
doniewhalberg
Member
Regardless of what the previous user was saying about it being an all in one box, I do think it's clear that is exactly what they are promising. One device, that supports all your various forms of entertainment, that you will enjoy all that entertain through, "designed to be there in your living room forever", is a rough quote I remember too. I think it's wrong to say that's not what they are claiming, and actively wanting you to buy into, that it's your one device that will do everything you would want it to.
I do not know that the Xbone is solving a problem i have.
It overlays stuff onto my screen and lets me change the channel. Yay???? (Probably not tho, i live in aust)
If i want to record stuff i still need a DVR. If i have a cable box i can program it from anywhere on the planet i can get an internet connection using my phone or tablet or pc if needs be. That also gives me an epg, which also exists for fta here on my tv
My cable gives me catch up via my ipad.
If i am watching sport on tv i want the whole tv for that. Stats, twitter etc i can get via my phone/tablet/pc without taking space on the screen. I can also access those stats etc anywhere on the planet. So that is my preferred way of consuming those stats. I take my phone to the game, get stats etc, not taking an xbone.
I am not taking a skype call on my tv except in exceptional circumstwnces, and certainly not while we are watching something. Ymmv
Netflix etc is ubiquitous, just about anything that has media capabilities is capable of this i dont need an xbone.
The ipad is a highly portable media consumption device, the xbone is a totally static media consumption device. Any comparisons between the 2 needs to acknowledge this massive difference.
As far as i can tell, sony have positoned the ps4 as a games machine that does other things but does games as its core. The xbone looks to do games as a part of a bunch of other stuff, most of which i dont want or need.
It overlays stuff onto my screen and lets me change the channel. Yay???? (Probably not tho, i live in aust)
If i want to record stuff i still need a DVR. If i have a cable box i can program it from anywhere on the planet i can get an internet connection using my phone or tablet or pc if needs be. That also gives me an epg, which also exists for fta here on my tv
My cable gives me catch up via my ipad.
If i am watching sport on tv i want the whole tv for that. Stats, twitter etc i can get via my phone/tablet/pc without taking space on the screen. I can also access those stats etc anywhere on the planet. So that is my preferred way of consuming those stats. I take my phone to the game, get stats etc, not taking an xbone.
I am not taking a skype call on my tv except in exceptional circumstwnces, and certainly not while we are watching something. Ymmv
Netflix etc is ubiquitous, just about anything that has media capabilities is capable of this i dont need an xbone.
The ipad is a highly portable media consumption device, the xbone is a totally static media consumption device. Any comparisons between the 2 needs to acknowledge this massive difference.
As far as i can tell, sony have positoned the ps4 as a games machine that does other things but does games as its core. The xbone looks to do games as a part of a bunch of other stuff, most of which i dont want or need.
I was referring to the iPad, not the Xbone. With the latter its clear thats what they are aiming for. One interface to control all your entertainment. At least all your entertainment in your living room.
boyshine
Member
Most channels I watch have their own iOS app, so when I want to watch something, I pull out my iPhone and airplay it to my AppleTV. THAT'S the TV revolution. No more scheduled programming (except live broadcasts), everything through web-TV and apps, on the device you want. Not one device to run everything, but one source that will run on everything. MS got it completely backwards.
Open Source
Banned
I wish Steve Jobs had gotten up on stage and taken a shit while using one, as part of the unveiling.
The entire TV part of XBone could be built into a TV. Why doesn't M$ just got to Samsung or Panasonic and be like "look we got these great ideas for your TV, why not put them into it." Wouldn't be all that hard to put a camera on top. Smart TVs already go for 1500, I could see them tacking on 500 for voice and hand jesters.
Leave the TV stuff to TVs.
Leave the TV stuff to TVs.
boyshine
Member
Too late. Samsung already has voice and gesture control in their TVs.
That's not true. Perhaps 90% of Americans have access to the ability to purchase cable TV, but nowhere near that amount buy it, and it's a declining market.
hooijdonk17
Member
ThisWreckage
Banned
There are those who have satellite. There are college students that have zero access to cable. There are people overseas in the military that don't have cable access. And none of these people will be able to fully utilize the console. So Microsoft wants you to pay a cable bill, pay your ISP, pay for Live, pay Netflix, etc. That gets pretty damn pricey once you start to add things up.
Also, that 90% has to be bunk. Let's say that hypothetically it is true: it's still a declining market.
The number of 90% seems unlikely unless Nielsen is counting people with personal satellite dishes. At this point the National Cable Television Association claims that they can reach 127.5 million homes in the Unites States, but are actually providing service to 48.5% of them. The US Census has stated that there are a total of 128.2 million housing units (homes) in the country. That would mean that cable companies are providing service to 61.8 million homes.
Canis lupus
Member
Didn't the Spruce Goose fly. (atleast in the Aviator)
10101
Gold Member
More Fun To Compute
Member
Xbox one seems to be taking a big risk which is something that could be admirable in a way. But it isn't a risk like dreaming the impossible dream and reaching for the sky. It's more of a risk like stealing a small amount of money from a friend and seeing if it ruins your relationship.
Arnt you doing the exact same thing?.