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[Flesh Into Gear]

that movie was a cameo fanfest,

That's mainly why I disliked it.

But really, why do we have to bring hate into this thread? FF7 is an amazing game, so is SoA, so is whatever your favorite RPG happens to be. If FF7 wasn't hugely innovative whats the big deal? It's some people's favorite game ever, oh noes. It's like the RPG equivalent of a Halo thread.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Let's look at things objectively for a second.

Graphics: FF7 sucks by today's standards. Blockiness, inconsistency in design, and lots of cheesiness.

Story/Characters: Shallow and cliched, or meandering and impenetrable. Generally lame.

Gameplay: Pretty standard stuff. Unexceptional.

Now let's look at things subjectively. FF7 is still one of my favourite RPGs of all time and frankly I have no idea why. It has a certain magic and creativity that I can't put my finger on.

 

[Jirotrom]

Let's look at things objectively for a second.

Graphics: FF7 sucks by today's standards. Blockiness, inconsistency in design, and lots of cheesiness.

Story/Characters: Shallow and cliched, or meandering and impenetrable. Generally lame.

Gameplay: Pretty standard stuff. Unexceptional.

Now let's look at things subjectively. FF7 is still one of my favourite RPGs of all time and frankly I have no idea why. It has a certain magic and creativity that I can't put my finger on.

I loved the gameplay... the materia system was so so so awesome. I really liked the characters in this game, as their actual physical design gave them their attitudes,it helped make them more memorable. I'll agree with you on graphics though, as it was really the only thing I was disappointed with back then, it was just very inconsistent.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I loved the gameplay... the materia system was so so so awesome. I really liked the characters in this game, as their actual physical design gave them their attitudes,it helped make them more memorable. I'll agree with you on graphics though, as it was really the only thing I was disappointed with back then, it was just very inconsistent.

That's the thing--I love the gameplay, characters, and even the graphics too, but objectively-speaking they all suck and I can't figure out the reason for their special impact on me (and apparently lots of others).

 

[Avalon]

That's the thing--I love the gameplay, characters, and even the graphics too, but objectively-speaking they all suck and I can't figure out the reason for their special impact on me (and apparently lots of others).

It's just the way it all comes together. Plenty of games have underdeveloped aspects that really fall apart when you single them out.

 

[badcrumble]

That's the thing--I love the gameplay, characters, and even the graphics too, but objectively-speaking they all suck and I can't figure out the reason for their special impact on me (and apparently lots of others).

The music helps a lot, and the fact that it was utterly mindblowing at the time. It's a game that is, I think, deliberately tooled to invoke feelings of nostalgia, even before the Compilation. Similarly, I think Square achieved something similar with the end credit music of FF6, which is pretty good at making the player feel nostalgic even though they've only just finished the game.

 

[JayDubya]

That's the thing--I love the gameplay, characters, and even the graphics too, but objectively-speaking they all suck and I can't figure out the reason for their special impact on me (and apparently lots of others).

I can't say I agree with your gripes about character and story. These elements are not "objectively bad."

Sephiroth is as good and complex a villain as say, Jonaleth Irenicus. He's top tier in the hierarchy of video game villains. Kefka and Sephiroth were a great one-two punch from Squaresoft - top notch, both of them, and I could not ask for better characterization.

Also, the Nibelheim flashback plot that gets revisited multiple times from different perspectives is particularly well-crafted. Cloud's backstory is as layered and interesting as any other video game protagonist that has a name (hint, hint).

 

[Red Scarlet]

ZOMG you must play Grandia for reals this time! srsly!!

Too late, traded it in years ago. I did watch the game being played through kind of though.

 

[Grayman]

I hooked the PS2 back up and am continuing on my "running from most fights game"

I just beat the jenova boss in the windy cliffs area and am about to do bad things with the black materia if I remember right.

I can soon explore the world map more freely and want to earn some money to do chocobos and such. Without digging through all my reference materials does anyone have some good money tips that give zero xp? anything that could be sold from the battle arena for a profit? I did a lot of stealing to get my unlimited gold saucer ticket the first time so I could fall back on theifing if I really had to but I am wondering if my gold saucer adventures could be used to make more money in the gold saucer?

 

[Red Scarlet]

I don't remember, but is there any way to get 0xp and still get AP? Or is that just bosses? Because the materia Cait Sith started with (with the Toad spell) doesn't take too much AP to master and sells for about 380,000, and a mastered All sells for 1,400,000 or so. I don't know, stealing and running may be how you have to go about getting $ and no xp.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Oh..I almost never used it, but what about the Morph materia? Does that give you 0 xp but still get AP? You could try that.

 

[Grayman]

As far as I know you can't do 0xp and AP monsters until you get to the northern crater and then it's only one of them in one area.

I'll try morphing when I play tomorrow. I could probably morph the cactus enemies and sell their accessory because they are the only monster in their area. I think morph counts for earning limit breaks as well.

If you or anyone else is wondering i've been trying to make the game harder and more tactical but I am still trying to do everything.

 

[AniHawk]

Using Skies of Arcadia to make nasty, fanboyish comments towards FFVII only proves that you're just bitter that everybody bought a Playstation along with FFVII. I wonder if you've even played it? Judging by your comments towards the game, I would think not.

What? Final Fantasy VII or Skies of Arcadia? I played SoA about a full year before I got into FFVII.

And here's a tip sparky: I chose SoA specifically because I know it's a particularly sore spot for FFVII fans, even though I am factually correct (just check metacritic).

 

[Big Shirtless Ron]

I chose SoA specifically because I know it's a particularly sore spot for FFVII fans...

really? why?

 

[AlternativeUlster]

What? Final Fantasy VII or Skies of Arcadia? I played SoA about a full year before I got into FFVII.

And here's a tip sparky: I chose SoA specifically because I know it's a particularly sore spot for FFVII fans, even though I am factually correct (just check metacritic).

Oh yeah, which one got a better score in Playstation magazine? THOUGHT SO!

 

[AniHawk]

really? why?

Well as to why SoA is a sore spot for FFVII fans, I'll never know. They can't be content that their game is more popular than most games in the genre, they also have to make sure it's better than most games in the genre (even though, y'know... it's not or hasn't been in quite some time).

My original post that started this shitfest was me legitimately stating my genuine feelings about the game: that I felt it was pretty awful. I've expanded on that statement some, but people latched onto the SoA thing because, well, it's a sore spot like I said. I kinda expected there to be the usual ":lol" responses among the people really taking it to heart, but I guess you don't mess with FFVII. That shit is serious business.

Oh yeah, which one got a better score in Playstation magazine? THOUGHT SO!

See, he gets it.

 

[Rolf NB]

No, it's not. It's also the load times, the poor animation, the uninteresting story, and its uninteresting characters. Honestly, I can't tell one turn-based battle system from the other, so FFVII does nothing for me in terms in combat. But I doubt it was REALLY that revolutionary to anyone that wasn't an avid RPG fan at the time.

So basically you accuse everyone who still sees something likeable in the game of wearing rose-tinted glasses, while wearing poo-tinted glasses yourself?
Why the fuck did you even list your "perspective" games? Do you really think your throw-away criticism of gameplay and story makes any sense in combination with that list of games? Or maybe you just casually forgot to mention how they all sucked just as hard, and you actually hate every JRPG you've ever played. Wtf. You're really just trollin'.


And just for the record, FF7 isn't strictly turn-based, though you might get away with it if you wiggle around a litlte. It's ATB.
ATB --- hybrid ---- turns
FF7 ---- FF X ---- DQ 8

Perhaps the most interesting part of the game was the ending. Because the humans didn't make it. But, oh, look at that. There's a huge fanbase and Square needs money. It's really sad that in 2007 the best thing about the Final Fantasy VII series is still Final Fantasy VII.

It's much sadder that they are remaking FF IV again, and that's just the last in a long chain of questionable decisions. Lali-ho.

 

[Teasel]

Let's look at things objectively for a second.

Graphics: FF7 sucks by today's standards. Blockiness, inconsistency in design, and lots of cheesiness.

Story/Characters: Shallow and cliched, or meandering and impenetrable. Generally lame.

Gameplay: Pretty standard stuff. Unexceptional.

Now let's look at things subjectively. FF7 is still one of my favourite RPGs of all time and frankly I have no idea why. It has a certain magic and creativity that I can't put my finger on.

you know i always thought the popeye graphic of FF7 were quite unique... in fact if they remake the game i hope they just make more detailed SD model instead of going with nomura-esque character oh and the pre-rendered background were awesome,saying that the game has pretty standard stuff would be kinda of applicable to every normal rpg including stuff like DQ8 and personaly i don't believe it's possible to be objective about something like story/character but barret doesn't certainly look to me as a cliche character

 

[AniHawk]

Why the fuck did you even list your "perspective" games?

Well I enjoyed pretty much everything in there except FFVII, Golden Sun, and Shenmue. If you count Shenmue as an RPG (I don't).

And to expand on my earlier post: I don't think the gameplay was anything special. The battle systems in RPGs sorta all blend together unless they're something different like Grandia or Tales of. And when I get down to it, I'm comparing worlds and characters and stories. Within that, I find FFVII one of the most overrated experiences ever.

You have amnesia, clones, sacrifice, long-lost siblings, good-guy-turned-bad, long-lost love, a troubled past... all cliches that could be made into characters, but aren't. Cloud came off as obnoxious. Aeris's death came off as shallow (she wasn't really a useful character in any sense until she died, which makes her "sacrifice" come off as cheap). Barret had a bit of humanity to him, trying to protect Marlene (did I get that right? I played the thing only twice). But they go and ruin his character with so much goddamn swearing, and he winds up as the sort of stereotypical strong guy with a gun.

And actually, I think I prefer FFVII over Golden Sun. I mean, NOTHING happened in that game. All I remember was a fetch quest for djinnis and an oil spill. That's about it.

It's much sadder that they are remaking FF IV again, and that's just the last in a long chain of questionable decisions. Lali-ho.

Well yes. They really need to put the first seven games in the series to rest now. Well, X too, for that matter, but I don't think they'll do anything with that in the future. At least, I hope not.

 

[Awntawn]

Let's look at things objectively for a second.

Graphics: FF7 sucks by today's standards. Blockiness, inconsistency in design, and lots of cheesiness.

Story/Characters: Shallow and cliched, or meandering and impenetrable. Generally lame.

Gameplay: Pretty standard stuff. Unexceptional.

Now let's look at things subjectively. FF7 is still one of my favourite RPGs of all time and frankly I have no idea why. It has a certain magic and creativity that I can't put my finger on.

The graphics suck by today's standards, but they were revolutionary at the time.

Shallow/cliched story/characters are the easiest and most irresponsible way to criticize any form media or literature. Please elaborate.

In terms of gameplay, true the mechanics were nothing revolutionary. However, as with the graphics, the leap to 3d was huge. In past JRPGs, an attack was a character's sprite moving forward, swinging, and you get an impact effect on the enemy sprite and maybe some jiggling. Special attacks were the exact same thing with extra sprites for more effects. In FF7, for the first time you could actually see some semblance action actually happening.

Not to mention the presentation; the music, art, and scenario situations were all beautifully done. The characters were memorable and loveable. FF12 is fresh on our minds, does Vaan leave nearly the lasting impression that Cloud did? Does Tidus? Zidane? Squall is the only one who can come close, and any character before that was displayed as a sprite which, let's be honest, is often hard to distinguish from other sprites.

VIII was my personal favorite, though I understand the story was a mess and the whole Fated Children thing seemed like bullshit. But let's face it, stories don't have to be deep and sophisticated for people to like them, in fact sometimes it gets confusing and turns people off. People love the world, they love the characters, they love the game. You're right, there is a certain magic there, but anything can be viewed as generic and cliche if you look at it from a certain angle. It doesn't mean that it is.

 

[Ikael]

I love ffVII. About Chairman's commentaries about its different aspects being bad, I disagree. Sure, some of them were mediocre and / or could have been better, but I think tha the magic that this game obtained was how everything fitted together, but more importantly, how the plot was told.

Am I the only one here that thinks that ffVII did some pretty groundbreaking stuff for its time at interactive storytelling?

- The whole love triangle mechanic, which, while it grabbed lot of things from girlfriend simulators, they were able to implement it streamlinedly trough the whole game without making it intrusive. I freaking loved it, and enjoyed a lot the love story because of how it involved the player.

- Interactive flashbacks where you could take part of the action. The way of presenting Sephirot, fighting side to side to him and thus making you aware of its power ("he deals 9999 damge while I just deal a puny 4!") was brilliant.

- The use (not abuse) of CG sequences, which las latter imitated to death.

- The sublteness of everything that leaded to so much debate, and how you could digg deeper into the story the more you explored, a la metroid prime (Zacks's video tapes in Icicle, Vincent's waterfall and the like).

- The whole gritty atmosphere of all, its maturity. It was unprecedent for a console game to treat such issues. I mean, we have transexuals, ecoterrorists, a whole life / death theory formulated into the game... the game was really packed with interesting, adult themes.

- And, while many people claim that the Aeris's death was the pinnacle of the game, I say that the most shocking thing wasn't her death, but her non resurrection. You are thinking trough the whole game "but she is goin to be revived, right?" until the game ends and see that that was not a conventional game (and that, despite of accusations of being cliched, that was certainly a kick in the balls against several anime conventions).

 

[AniHawk]

Not to mention the presentation; the music, art, and scenario situations were all beautifully done. The characters were memorable and loveable. FF12 is fresh on our minds, does Vaan leave nearly the lasting impression that Cloud did? Does Tidus? Zidane? Squall is the only one who can come close, and any character before that was displayed as a sprite which, let's be honest, is often hard to distinguish from other sprites.

I would argue Balthier was less of a supporting role and more of a leading man in XII... Especially from the middle towards the end of the game when Vaan and Basch disappeared into the background.

 

[Awntawn]

I would argue Balthier was less of a supporting role and more of a leading man in XII... Especially from the middle towards the end of the game when Vaan and Basch disappeared into the background.

You mean Han Solo? :lol

I agree that XII probably would have been better if they centered the perspective around him instead, but I think his personality would have made it difficult for (Japanese) people to relate to. As it is, he's still nowhere near as memorable as Cloud ;/

I also think the big sword has something to do with all of this.

 

[Teasel]

I also think the big sword has something to do with all of this.

 

[Rolf NB]

Well I enjoyed pretty much everything in there except FFVII, Golden Sun, and Shenmue. If you count Shenmue as an RPG (I don't).

And to expand on my earlier post: I don't think the gameplay was anything special. The battle systems in RPGs sorta all blend together unless they're something different like Grandia or Tales of. And when I get down to it, I'm comparing worlds and characters and stories. Within that, I find FFVII one of the most overrated experiences ever.

You have amnesia, clones, sacrifice, long-lost siblings, good-guy-turned-bad, long-lost love, a troubled past... all cliches that could be made into characters, but aren't. Cloud came off as obnoxious. Aeris's death came off as shallow (she wasn't really a useful character in any sense until she died, which makes her "sacrifice" come off as cheap). Barret had a bit of humanity to him, trying to protect Marlene (did I get that right? I played the thing only twice). But they go and ruin his character with so much goddamn swearing, and he winds up as the sort of stereotypical strong guy with a gun.

And actually, I think I prefer FFVII over Golden Sun. I mean, NOTHING happened in that game. All I remember was a fetch quest for djinnis and an oil spill. That's about it.

The dutiful female self-sacrifice is a theme that's a bit too common to JRPGs, yeah, but then FF7 was the chronological start of that wave. Fina, the Grandia II chick, Colette and Yuna for that matter are all more or less elaborate versions of the same character (on a holy mission, functionally kinda the white mage type, knows a bit more than she tells you about her fate), yet you don't dislike them apparently.

Clones, unclear past, disturbing inception? Outside of combat Vivi is the same goddamn character as Cloud, I swear. Yet you tolerate him, apparently.
Amnesia bothers you specifically? So besides Vivi, how much did you like Squall, who I'd argue had a much more artificial case of it than Cloud? Yet you thought he was alright, apparently.
I don't see an effective qualitative difference between the "long-lost" love and the "constantly in stasis of doubt" love that Squall and Rinoa acted out for sixty goddamn hours.
I really don't know how to reply to the "obnoxious" bit. Cloud spends his first fifteen hours telling people to give him clear instructions and leave him the fuck alone otherwise. He's surely no Xell Dincht, or Selphie or even Steiner (and he's an excellent character; just sayin').
... or Atsuma, but that's a level of the abyss you've probably not been to yet.

I've played (and finished) every single one of the games you've listed, with the exception of Golden Sun which I gave up on after the third elemental whatever-it-was. And I agree that these are good games. I don't hate them. I don't even hate Skies Of Arcadia, I just think its gameplay is broken.
What I don't understand is why you give every other JRPG the free pass for the issues you critcize when you find them in FF7. Cosmo Canyon, dude. Fighting Hojo. The Turks in Wutai. Excellent moments. You don't have to hate them.

Well yes. They really need to put the first seven games in the series to rest now. Well, X too, for that matter, but I don't think they'll do anything with that in the future. At least, I hope not.

Ruh-roh. At least I agree that Tidus is pretty obnoxious. Actually most of your criticism of seven fits ten much more. Strange that.

 

[AniHawk]

You mean Han Solo? :lol

I agree that XII probably would have been better if they centered the perspective around him instead, but I think his personality would have made it difficult for (Japanese) people to relate to. As it is, he's still nowhere near as memorable as Cloud ;/

I also think the big sword has something to do with all of this.

Well, I think he's a more interesting guy than Vaan (and I'm pretty sure he had more lines later in the game). The problem with FFXII is that the story wasn't a real big focus even though the game had the best presentation in the series.

The dutiful female self-sacrifice is a theme that's a bit too common to JRPGs, yeah, but then FF7 was the chronological start of that wave. Fina, the Grandia II chick, Colette and Yuna for that matter are all more or less elaborate versions of the same character (on a holy mission, functionally kinda the white mage type, knows a bit more than she tells you about her fate), yet you don't dislike them apparently.

I never really liked Fina. Elena from Grandia II was probably the best character from the stereotype because she actually showed some conflict there. She really despised the main character at the beginning of the game, and she wasn't the one that made the actual sacrifice in the end (it was the bad-girl Millenia). I didn't like Yuna either, and I hate Symphonia's Collette (that's who you meant, right?).

I'm fine with cliches. Skies of Arcadia is FULL of them. The trick is how to pull them off. You can make a game where they're nothing but walking cliches (like Squall or Cloud), or you can expand on them and make it part of their charm (like Vyse or Vivi).

 

[Threi]

Hay guyz.

Vivi is, was, and will always be the best FF character ever made.

bye guyz.

 

[Max Pontello]

So, with 10 years of Final Fantasy VII past, what are your feelings and memories from the game? What is its lasting legacy? And will it ever, ever be remade? For that matter, should it?

Please, no flaming.

I can remember the days in which i began to play this game, in japanese. I can't understand what i see on screen but i feel very pleased with music and visuals, so i decided to wait for the english translation. For me, it's one of the best games i've ever played and for sure the best rpg to date. If they would make a remake for ps3 i would be very excited

 

[Y2Kev]

Balthier is a leading man. He calls himself a leading man multiple times. It's not just breaking the fourth wall to be funny and postmodern-- aside from it being witty and fitting into his style, it's true.

It's still Ashe's game.

Say what you want about FF7's cast, they are some of the most memorable characters in the series. It's pretty impressive that they all managed to become so indelibly stained into the collective gaming consciousness when you take into account the awful, awful translation that made Barrett practically a racist caricature.

 

[Deadly]

Hay guyz.

Vivi is, was, and will always be the best FF character ever made.

bye guyz.

I never understood why everyone loved Vivi. Sure he's a black mage and he owns but besides that?

 

[Rolf NB]

Hay guyz.

Vivi is, was, and will always be the best FF character ever made.

bye guyz.

My Steiner kicks your Vivi's ass.
Can the word "best" be banned, perhaps?

 

[BeEatNU]

Hay guyz.

Vivi is, was, and will always be the best FF character ever made.

bye guyz.

lol

its not healthy to lie to yourself.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

so getting past all the negative bullshit that normally pops up in every FF thread, I'd like to take a moment to reminisce...


well, 10 years from this moment (Friday, Sept. 5th, 1997), my senior year high school joke of a Spanish II class was just about done.

and the very long-awaited Final Fantasy VII was waiting to be picked up from Babbages. I decided to wait until Friday so... well... I'm not really sure. I guess my week was too filled with obligations to get it on Tuesday/Wednesday.

Took the whole weekend off work, was able to convince my dad to get me my own case of Harp to last me two days and three nights, and I was fucking ready.


ahhh those were the days...


Here's to Final Fantasy VII's 10 Year Anniversary:

 

[Grayman]

Oh..I almost never used it, but what about the Morph materia? Does that give you 0 xp but still get AP? You could try that.

I tried it today and morphing does give xp. I am starting the huge materia events now though. Once I get to the sunken plane most of the monsters there have steal-able items worth 5000 gil.

So if my low hp and low steal chance are manageable there I have a good source of money.