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Terminator Dark Fate bombs at the Box Office

drganon

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What terminator needs is to remove arnold from those movies. Arnie was great actor in original movies but his character is done, anytime you want to bring him in you have to create retarded story. Like T3 or any other terminator after that.

It is exactly like Aliens series. After 2nd movie they didn't know what to do and even had plan to make Alien 3 about monk sanctuary instead of prison colony (i shit you not there is whole script you can read). Then with Alien4 they cloned ripley then more garbage. Prometheus was best attempt at reviving Aliens but they butchered it with script so dump that you question yourself why would anyone make those choices.
The alien 3 script by William Gibson seemed kinda cool.
 
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MilkyJoe

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Salvation was a boring, cold, sterile ass movie with an idiotic plot that basically ruined what people dreamed to see on screen. It became a generic brown war movie with a lot of yelling and a stupid plot with a really dumb version of Skynet. Was so hyped going into that movie 😐
The premise they should have continued with.

Fuck the time travel, the wars happened, lets continue with THAT part of the story, This is why it went so wrong.
 
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Sub_Level

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The alien 3 script by William Gibson seemed kinda cool.
They released an audibook and a comic about it.

Its good in that it expands the Alien universe a bit to show human vs human conflict. Why need colonial marines in the first place? Hint: they ain't just there to kill bugs. The great political influence of Weyland Yutani is also shown. Very cyberpunk.

The actual plot is quite pedestrian though. Ripley and Newt get sent back to Earth. Hicks and Bishop bro-op with forgettable characters on a space station. The new xeno introduced is a human-alien hybrid, like something out of Resurrection. Kinda schlocky to be honest. And then at the end they imply there's a xenomorph homeworld, which is a concept I've never cared to explore. The less you know about them the better.

Recommended if you like Aliens. Michael Biehn and Lance Hendrickson reprise their roles to narrate in the audio version. But don't expect anything special.
 

Komatsu

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Incredibly underwhelming film - I'm super fine with women being front & center, and Terminator was always a southern border story if you think about it, but the way they disregarded the established continuity not only makes no sense, it makes the previous movies retroactively worse. If time travel wasn't extremely costly (in resources) and complex and SkyNet could send many Terminators to kill John Connor, why didn't they send a small army to kill Sarah in T1? The way the whole SkyNet/John Connor duality was dropped entirely was also... stupid. LEGION? What a dumbass cliché name for an AI.

I re-watched T2 not too long ago and I had completely forgotten it had one of the best opening credits sequence of all time.

 
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sol_bad

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Lol! They went out of their way to replace white boy John Connor with brown girl Dani. Anyway it failed, so it serves them right.
They went out of their way? How so?
You jokers saying its woke because it involves a Mexican girl crossing the border. If anything the film seems to side with Trump because it seems piss easy for Dani to cross the border.

I'm Australian and don't give 2 shits about Trump or the American/Mexican border issues. We have our own illegal immigrant issues ourselves but I sure as shit wouldn't care if an Australian movie involved the hero arriving on our shores illegally.
 

Doom85

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If time travel wasn't extremely costly (in resources) and complex and SkyNet could send many Terminators to kill John Connor, why didn't they send a small army to kill Sarah in T1?
Humanity was on the brink of winning so A) doubt there were that many Terminators left, and B) they only had so much time before they were overrun and the resistance got hold of the time machine.

Also, again, every Terminator sent back carries a certain risk with it. The chip recovered from T1 was partially damaged so that's why apparently Dyson and his team retrieved no info on Skynet or the mission to kill Sarah. If a fully intact chip were ever recovered, that would reveal Skynet's future existence and cost it everything.
 

cryptoadam

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Sounds like Jeremy's the one who wants to shit on T2's ending since he apparently didn't understand it. The T-800 should have stuck around? With like a 1/3 of his face missing (I guess they could bandage it up, but it would be pretty risky regardless), and a chip inside that if it fell in the wrong hands would mean Skynet would just end getting created again, why the hell would the T-800 stick around? And technically protecting John is irrelevant after changing the future because if there's no Skynet then there's no need for John to lead a resistance.

Because apparently Dark Fate spelling this out several times wasn't enough for Jeremy to get it, SKYNET WAS WIPED FROM THE FUTURE. John dying did not negate that in any way. Legion is a separate AI that was made decades later. That doesn't negate T2's ending, anyone who knows how technological advancements work should be able to figure out stopping one company from getting a massive leap on AI development wasn't going to halt all AI development all over the world. But the victory in T2 still matter, humanity got to live in relative peace instead of getting massively nuked in 1997. A hard fought victory still matters even if a new conflict arrives decades later. That's just the nature of the world.
Nah its just bad storytelling and lazynes. They wanted to do a "reboot" and a "nostalgia sequel" at the same time. So the best they could come up with is ANOTHER AI just appeared and decieded to kill all humans and create robots to do it. Oh and they also managed to invent time travel because as we know time travel is so easy to invent, and decided just like Skynet to send a robot back in time to kill the leader of the resistance.

Its the same exact story just crossed out Skynet and replaced it with Legion, and crossed out John Conner and wrote over Dani Ramos. Its lazy and creatively bankrupt.
 
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sol_bad

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Also people knocking this film for Skynet sending back multiple Terminators in time. But they were ok with it in T3? In T3, Skynet was still stopped in T2 so why are there more Terminators being sent back in time? Because Skynet sent multiple Terminators, 1984, 1991, 2003 and god knows how many others.
Also, another reprogrammed T800? The resistance reprogrammed 2 T800's and sent one to 1991 and one to 2004. Plus they sent Kyle to 1984?

No one bitched about these stupid things in T3.

*EDIT*
Also, people complaining that Legion created time travel out of thin air? Really? But it's ok for Skynet to create time travel out of thin air? WHAT?
 
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Komatsu

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Humanity was on the brink of winning so A) doubt there were that many Terminators left, and B) they only had so much time before they were overrun and the resistance got hold of the time machine.

Also, again, every Terminator sent back carries a certain risk with it. The chip recovered from T1 was partially damaged so that's why apparently Dyson and his team retrieved no info on Skynet or the mission to kill Sarah. If a fully intact chip were ever recovered, that would reveal Skynet's future existence and cost it everything.
Not only that, in the original 2 films it is stated the time dislocation sphere or whatever is destroyed after the second T-800 goes through. So it makes no sense whatsoever for SkyNet to send dozens of Terminators to hunt and kill Connor which is exactly what happened in the new movie continuity
 

Sub_Level

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Not only that, in the original 2 films it is stated the time dislocation sphere or whatever is destroyed after the second T-800 goes through. So it makes no sense whatsoever for SkyNet to send dozens of Terminators to hunt and kill Connor which is exactly what happened in the new movie continuity
To be fair its said in the first movie interrogation scene that only Reese and T800 go through. The second movie already retconned it by saying that there were another set of terminators Reese conveniently didn't know about.

So in this movie it just uses that excuse a few more times to say another handful of T800s were also sent. Reese was the last to go and apparently not kept too well informed by John.
 
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Dada55000

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Also people knocking this film for Skynet sending back multiple Terminators in time. But they were ok with it in T3? In T3, Skynet was still stopped in T2 so why are there more Terminators being sent back in time? Because Skynet sent multiple Terminators, 1984, 1991, 2003 and god knows how many others.
Also, another reprogrammed T800? The resistance reprogrammed 2 T800's and sent one to 1991 and one to 2004. Plus they sent Kyle to 1984?

No one bitched about these stupid things in T3.

*EDIT*
Also, people complaining that Legion created time travel out of thin air? Really? But it's ok for Skynet to create time travel out of thin air? WHAT?
lol, pretending that one of the most consistent complaints about Terminator sequels wasn't that they were just T2 again but worse
get the fuck out

for some reason you really wanna strawman the people hating the shitty movie you liked
 

sol_bad

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lol, pretending that one of the most consistent complaints about Terminator sequels wasn't that they were just T2 again but worse
get the fuck out

for some reason you really wanna strawman the people hating the shitty movie you liked
It's not a straw man, it's an issue with both films but only this film is being nit picked to death. Like people mentioned above, T2 already retconned the first film.

I'm also not arguing against people that are saying T3 and T:DF are rehashed of 1 and 2. I'm talking about specific plot points.

Also, what did you bring to the argument?
 

Dada55000

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It's not a straw man, it's an issue with both films but only this film is being nit picked to death. Like people mentioned above, T2 already retconned the first film.

I'm also not arguing against people that are saying T3 and T:DF are rehashed of 1 and 2. I'm talking about specific plot points.

Also, what did you bring to the argument?
As much as any other man who isn't a tilted retard. Evidently, you were a toddler circa 4 years ago when Genisys came out, let alone the prior 2 movies. They all got picked to shit and mocked. What you're going through is acute butthurtitis. Wouldn't say that brings much to the table neither.
 

oagboghi2

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I guess James Cameron should re-edit Terminator 2's ending: "Okay, Linda, we're adding onto your narration at the end where you clarify that obviously humanity will still continue working on AI and it's likely a similar threat to Skynet could pop up down the road. You know, to make sure the kids who sneaked into the film don't get lost, wait, I'm sorry? Huh, my producer says we're doing this to clarify it for the adults. Geezus, well maybe we should also have the characters say in the film shit like, 'this car needs gas to keep going!' and 'the gun only fires bullets when it has bullets in it!' Wouldn't want to confuse anyone with basic shit about our own reality."

Also, as Dr. Cox once said in Scrubs, "all we're doing here is delaying the inevitable". Everyone dies at some point, doesn't mean there's no value in doing what you can to keep yourself and others alive as long as reasonably possible. I see delaying the apocalypse by 20+ years as a win, the amount of happy moments people had in the time gained by the heroes' fight in T2 is immeasurable. I mean, if somebody only lived to be 20, is it sad their life wasn't longer, oh absolutely, no doubt, but meaningless? That's a fucked up way for somebody to look at it.
The impression at the end of T2 was that the world was saved. Not that in 20 years everything would go to shit anyway. This idea that “eventually we will make an AI that kills all humans” is dumb. Just do something else with the franchise or make something new.

It’s like they want to have their cake and eat it too. They are bastardizing T2 becuase they know that is what everyone loves, but deep down they want to get rid of as much of T2 as they can. They should cut the bullshit nostalgia and just remake a “woke” terminator 1 and 2 if that is what they want so badly

Also people knocking this film for Skynet sending back multiple Terminators in time. But they were ok with it in T3? In T3, Skynet was still stopped in T2 so why are there more Terminators being sent back in time? Because Skynet sent multiple Terminators, 1984, 1991, 2003 and god knows how many others.
Also, another reprogrammed T800? The resistance reprogrammed 2 T800's and sent one to 1991 and one to 2004. Plus they sent Kyle to 1984?

No one bitched about these stupid things in T3.

*EDIT*
Also, people complaining that Legion created time travel out of thin air? Really? But it's ok for Skynet to create time travel out of thin air? WHAT?
what fantasy world do you live in where people don’t mock T3?
 
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sol_bad

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As much as any other man who isn't a tilted retard. Evidently, you were a toddler circa 4 years ago when Genisys came out, let alone the prior 2 movies. They all got picked to shit and mocked. What you're going through is acute butthurtitis. Wouldn't say that brings much to the table neither.
Maybe you could try and write something a little more mature?




People were actually much nicer back in the day. Even in 2014 with the RTTP thread there is no one insulting each other and barely anyone ripping T3 apart. Sure, they mention that there are plot holes but overall, mostly everyone in these threads like T3. Hence, my reassertion that it's silly to pick apart and hate this film when T3 did the same thing. Again, I'm not talking about the aping T1 and T2 aspect but certain plot points.
 
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Dada55000

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Maybe you could try and write something a little more mature?

People were actually much nicer back in the day. Even in 2014 with the RTTP thread there is no one insulting each other and barely anyone ripping T3 apart. Sure, they mention that there are plot holes but overall, mostly everyone in these threads like T3. Hence, my reassertion that it's silly to pick apart and hate this film when T3 did the same thing. Again, I'm not talking about the aping T1 and T2 aspect but certain plot points.
Oh, so gaf is the world. No comments on movies exist outside of it on the internet. what

Maybe can the pissbaby passive aggressive question shit, and post in a way that isn't dripping with disingenuity.
 

btgorman

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Salvation is actually my least favourite precisely because it came so close to being good that its failures frustrate me beyond the point I can get any enjoyment out of it.

For all the movie does well in terms of skipping the time travel and present day setting of the first 3 movies, it still doesn't quite distance itself or give itself whole heartedly to the heavy metal grimdark insanity the War Against the Machines should be, and that we saw in flashbacks (flashforwards) in 1 & 2.

John Connor is still not in charge, he's still just relying on warnings of the future and his mothers advice, the T800 is introduced as a big shock reveal, when we're all over familiar with it, especially the Arnie model, Kyle Reese is made too big of a fuss and focus on, tying us far too much to the first movie, the Cyborg stuff is dumb and ends on a ridiculous note, and it's all too optimistic and lacking the mechanical, emotionless cruelty such a world should be soaked in.

The only media I truly enjoyed since the second movie was The Sarah Connor Chronicles, since it was both doing something new, let us see how fucked up the future was and how brutal and callous both Skynet and the humans of that era were, and had a few scenes of John Connor being his own man and demonstrating what a ruthless motherfucker and tactical genius he ended up being, both utterly believed in by his army as the only salvation and hope of victory humanity had, and almost as alien and inhuman as the machines he fought, yet seemed to to have too more in common with than the people he led.
People skip on the Sarah Connor Chronicles but that show added some new interesting things to the Terminator universe.

It's not a straw man, it's an issue with both films but only this film is being nit picked to death. Like people mentioned above, T2 already retconned the first film.

I'm also not arguing against people that are saying T3 and T:DF are rehashed of 1 and 2. I'm talking about specific plot points.

Also, what did you bring to the argument?
What’s your problem? T3 sucks. Everyone knows that.

Stop trying to defend this new shit Terminator movie by implying that we think T3 is significant. It’s not. T3 sucks, T4 sucks, T5 sucks, now, apparently, this new one sucks.

Stop with the straw manning.
 
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sol_bad

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Gross.
Stop using the recent text book definition reply of straw man that's used on the internet these days when you have nothing better to say.
I've explained pretty darn clearly my thoughts and it's not straw manning.

And if you would read through the threads that I posted, what you say is not true. Not everyone hates T3, the threads are positive. Stop trying to input your own personal hated of the film in to reality across the board.

PS:
I personally hate T3 myself.
 
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Hari Seldon

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Just saw this. It was not completely terrible. About the same as T3, some things were better some were worse. Not having the annoying john connor was a big plus, the lead Latino girl was alright. It was almost like they were going for a super woke movie but then chickened out in editing because they didn't really lay into the border crossing stuff like they could have. Having a tough lead female and a border setting is in line with the franchise so it didn't feel out of place and they didn't try to shoe-horn some hamfisted messages about immigrant struggles or anything, it was just a movie featuring a tough minority female lead who was competent and not annoying and was fine. I'd say if you like action movies it is fine. Not the best but not the worst. If you want a tight plotted movie about time travel and future AI wars look elsewhere lol.
 

NeoGiffer

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TheSadRanger

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Not only that, in the original 2 films it is stated the time dislocation sphere or whatever is destroyed after the second T-800 goes through. So it makes no sense whatsoever for SkyNet to send dozens of Terminators to hunt and kill Connor which is exactly what happened in the new movie continuity
I just saw it today and some of the big grievances I had with it were
That in Dani's future it didn't look like the resistance was winning at all, during Grace's flashback her whole squad gets slaughtered in seconds and it's heavily implied that Dani is the individual in the stretcher. So what's the point of the time travel? In the future wars in T2 it at least looked like a back and forth battle where it looks completely one sided that the machines will win in Dark Fate. Instead of making Dani a John Connor 2.0 commander I think they should have at least gone a route that she was really intelligent and a brilliant programmer that designed a virus for stopping Legion or something, that would at least make sense that humanity somehow won.

Also now there's two terminator's in Hoover Dam with intact but heavily damaged frames, circuitry which should speed up Judgment Day 2.0 altering the timeline again since both Skynet and Legion tech will be out in the open thus creating something entirely new.

The calling some random air force Major to get an EMP bomb delivered like a pizza was the biggest "huh?" moment in the movie. Or was that guy Dyson's son?

I like the concept of Grace and thought she was executed well but the overall story and pacing were just not very good.
 
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Cravis

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The ship has sailed but I always hoped we would get our blue tinted future war movie with lasers.

Wonder if anyone has had the idea of color correcting salvation to the blue tint and replacing bullets with lasers?

It’d be an interesting experiment.

Out of all the sequels I thought Salvation was the best. It had its problems but it tried something new and you could tell the filmmakers didn’t see it just as a payday. The writers strike and McG did it no favors.
 

SirKicksalot

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The ship has sailed but I always hoped we would get our blue tinted future war movie with lasers.

Wonder if anyone has had the idea of color correcting salvation to the blue tint and replacing bullets with lasers?

It’d be an interesting experiment.

Out of all the sequels I thought Salvation was the best. It had its problems but it tried something new and you could tell the filmmakers didn’t see it just as a payday. The writers strike and McG did it no favors.

Cameron was attracted to the future Terminator idea, but Salvation made him realise it's not going to work.
 

Doom85

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Salvation to me was the blandest and it would have been hard not for it to be. Not only do we already know how that timeline ends so it kills the suspense somewhat, but once you remove the time travel element you're just left with a generic humans vs. robots in an apocalypse setting. Maybe if it was one that went more out there and featured robots and weapons that were outworldy and bizarre, that could be something, but Terminator kept things grounded in terms of robot design and weapons generally. I got bored of generic humans vs. robots in that bland battle in Zion in Matrix Revolutions, lord knows I don't want to suffer through 2 hours of that shit if I can avoid it.
 

jason10mm

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I liked it quite a bit. Yeah, it had a ridiculous plot and too much cgi (did we have to see that guy reform EVERY time?) but it was fun.

Grace was really good. Linda was fantastic. There were a few clunky dialogue scenes but they got through it. The edits were obvious though. That poor guy in the ICE cell that got his entire arc cut out to become fodder for the rev9 for example, as well as the EMP guy.

Wasnt too woke for me, aside from a few bits. Wasnt a fan of Dani though. It was obvious as soon as Grace said she was from 2042 that dani was the boss, any kid of hers would have still been a kid (unless Arnie's kid knocked her up). That Sarah couldn't do the math was painful.
 
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TheSadRanger

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I liked it quite a bit. Yeah, it had a ridiculous plot and too much cgi (did we have to see that guy reform EVERY time?) but it was fun.

Grace was really good. Linda was fantastic. There were a few clunky dialogue scenes but they got through it. The edits were obvious though. That poor guy in the ICE cell that got his entire arc cut out to become fodder for the rev9 for example, as well as the EMP guy.

Wasnt too woke for me, aside from a few bits. Wasnt a fan of Dani though. It was obvious as soon as Grace said she was from 2042 that dani was the boss, any kid of hers would have still been a kid (unless Arnie's kid knocked her up). That Sarah couldn't do the math was painful.
The thing with Grace is she was kinda rough on regular humans lol I was like "ummm is that person really still alive?"

At least Arnold in T2 was just shooting dudes in the kneecap where this chick is slamming peoples heads into walls making impact craters.
 

jason10mm

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The thing with Grace is she was kinda rough on regular humans lol I was like "ummm is that person really still alive?"

At least Arnold in T2 was just shooting dudes in the kneecap where this chick is slamming peoples heads into walls making impact craters.
Well, her whole backstory is goofy. Why did she volunteer to be augmented? For what purpose? Did they know they had to send someone back?

That dani told grace the same "no fate but what you make" line in the future implies that dani was already trained by sarah and knew that grace had to go back ( much like john knew kyle had to go back). So much of this film seemed edited out in favor of action. They really need to cut the sfx budgets on these things.
 

Doczu

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Sure it wouldn't work if you made it brown and generic, but if you go back to the retro blue style of the originals it would have a selling point - something original. There is a lot to cover: J-Day, emergence of the machines, death camps, forming of the resistance, guerilla warfare up to open warfare and push back of the machines.
Yes, we know how it will end, but it was the same when the SW prequels launched. Would a victory against the machines change anything? Like the world is fucked, nuked into oblivion - is there enough food, clean water and meds to cope with radiation and hunger? Or did the world die anyway, and the real objective was to stop SkyNet from ever being created in the past so that the next cycle, or other timeline has a better shot for the future?
Come on Cameron, get some good writers, give them a bag of weed and check if they can come up with anything 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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Bushido Boi

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I’m not a sexist or anything, but why does everything nowadays have to have a woke agenda and be about a female being front and center?
 

Doczu

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I’m not a sexist or anything, but why does everything nowadays have to have a woke agenda and be about a female being front and center?
Worst is that Cameron is known for strong female protagonists that are very well written - Sarah Connor in the first two T movies, Ripley in Aliens (although you could say she was already created before).
I'm all for a female protagonist in front and center, just make it worthy, not by the rules and bullet points.
 

Rylix

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As said before, this probably has nothing to do with wokeness. Terminator has been a dead franchise for a decade at least. I'm interested in this one, but there was no chance I was paying movie theater prices to risk it
 
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Thaedolus

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Wait does this just ignore T3 and beyond or is this some alternate timeline bullshittery? Because that opening scene sounds dumb as fuck after just watching T2 last night
 

Thaedolus

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You're reading a one sentence description of something that makes sense in the context of the movie if you actually watched it. And the ending of Terminator 2 (theatrical).

REMINDER: John Connor is a little dipshit.

How did the theatrical version end differently? The version I watched last night definitely had new scenes I had never seen before, which felt unnecessary really...but the ending seemed to be the same?
 

ManaByte

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How did the theatrical version end differently? The version I watched last night definitely had new scenes I had never seen before, which felt unnecessary really...but the ending seemed to be the same?
The SE of T2 has the ending where John Connor has a kid at a playground and Judgement Day never happened. The theatrical version ends with the highway and Sarah talking about the unknown future.
 

Panda1

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This franchise needs to be killed. The First 2 are legendary, but everything else has screamed cash in. As another poster said there is no need for Arnie - and you just can't make the plot sending terminators back etc how many times can this be done without working out a way to win - You literally went back in time with a cheat sheet and keep failing WTF.
The premise was great and everything resolved itself at the end of T2. I have not and don't plan on watching this. Hell I can't even remember the plots of the others they were that bad.
People all wanted a future movie - like Matrix but whats the point when the Cameron is not involved. It just goes to show how GOAT he was! Avatar was shit and why we need three sequels of that I have no idea. He should have directed Battle Angel which I loved, and done more of what the fans wanted - proper Aliens and Term movies.
 
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Doc Honk

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Send back a terminator to make two terminators. Send those back to make four terminators. Send four terminators back to make eight terminators. Keep doing it until you get... 16, 32, 64, um hang on... 128... like that until you get enough terminators to really get John once and for all.

I might send this script to Cameron.
 

Thaedolus

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The SE of T2 has the ending where John Connor has a kid at a playground and Judgement Day never happened. The theatrical version ends with the highway and Sarah talking about the unknown future.
Oh weird, I'm not sure what version I saw then because it was still the dark highway with Sarah's voiceover, but it had a bunch of other deleted scenes (switching on the CPU learning, T-1000 killing the dog and seeing his name, extra scenes with the Dysons)
 

TUROK

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As said before, this probably has nothing to do with wokeness. Terminator has been a dead franchise for a decade at least. I'm interested in this one, but there was no chance I was paying movie theater prices to risk it
Pretty much.

Even if the movie was amazing, I bet it still would have bombed because people don't really care about Terminator anymore.

It's all about generic superhero flicks and generic CG kids films these days. IP familiarity is the driving force behind box office gains now.

Oh weird, I'm not sure what version I saw then because it was still the dark highway with Sarah's voiceover, but it had a bunch of other deleted scenes (switching on the CPU learning, T-1000 killing the dog and seeing his name, extra scenes with the Dysons)
There's an extended edition with the original ending, that's the one you saw.

Hell, I remember that the original T2 Extended Edition DVD required you to input the Judgment Day date into the main menu to unlock the extended edition with the alternate ending. Neat stuff.
 
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cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
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This is going to make less money then Genysys. Genysys started the wokeness by making GOT tiny girl the hero and Kyle Resse an idiot who needs saving.

Dark Fate went full on gender swapping. Just look at the first imaged released. It Ghostbuster 2016 itself. Arnold wasn't even in the original promotional material.

The movie most likely would of bombed even if they made it an all male cast or put ARnie more front and center. But it could of maybe at least matched Genysys. Ever since T3 they have been trying to undo and screw up what T1 and T2 set up, and thats why fans keep rejecting these sequels.