Support NeoGAF

[Armadilo]

Doubtful this will work on any modern iPhone unless the person unlocks it for them.

License and Registration please, also unlock your phone

 

[RiccochetJ]

Doubtful this will work on any modern iPhone unless the person unlocks it for them.

It would be pretty easy if the phone manufacturers make it a separate device/chip outside the OS. I guess to get timestamps there would have to be some sort of connectivity to something to accurately tell the time when the tapping happened though.

 

[PandaPandaPanda]

I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand this is a massive invasion of privacy. On the other hand, people who fucking text while driving are in my mind just as bad as drunk drivers. If you need to fiddle around on your phone, pull over so you don't endanger other people.

 

[davepoobond]

so theyre hacking phones

 

[commedieu]

I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand this is a massive invasion of privacy. On the other hand, people who fucking text while driving are in my mind just as bad as drunk drivers. If you need to fiddle around on your phone, pull over so you don't endanger other people.

Police have no accountability. And will abuse this more than just accidents in the future because citizens want to punish other citizens, with no data backing the efficacy of this software.

With that being a fact. It's impossible to feel that this is anything but a bad idea.

 

[mrklaw]

This smells like a PR campaign to try and put people off, rather than anything actually practical

And why couldn't the police simply approach your phone company and ask for activity logs to see if you were texting?

 

[Nastrodamous]

This smells like a PR campaign to try and put people off, rather than anything actually practical

And why couldn't the police simply approach your phone company and ask for activity logs to see if you were texting?

because that would require them to do actual work.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

they can eat my entire asshole if they think they are gonna plug something into my phone without a warrant.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Z O N E]

What if I was at a red light and quickly answered a text with "k" and the text had nothing to do with my active driving?

You do realise even though you just sent "k" you're still using your phone while driving and it's considered illegal.

If you're in the drivers seat of a vehicle that is on the road, stopped or not, you cannot use your phone. Just like how you can't use your phone at a stop light, you can't at a red light.

 

[Attack You]

Oh ffs. Seriously considering a decoy phone for when I'm driving--which is my fucking JOB.

 

[Xe4]

You know who else are terrible people who ruin lives? Child molesters. So how about you let me into your house and let me look around to make sure you aren't stashing some child porn somewhere? I mean, if you have nothing to hide....

Someone already mentioned it, but that's a pretty bad example. Any random person isn't likely to be a child molester , but a person driving erratically is likely to be drunk or texting, or something else. If you're in an accident, or a cop notes you driving erratically, there needs to be some way to determine whether someone is texting and driving other than a he said she said scenario.

And I'd like to state again, I'm only in favor of doing this if it's voluntary, just as with a breathalyzer. Driving and texting is a huge problem, and I think what we are doing now is not working.

Oh ffs. Seriously considering a decoy phone for when I'm driving--which is my fucking JOB.

Or don't text and drive?!? C'mon man, it's not fucking hard. Pull over for like one second if it's that important. You're putting lives at risk.

 

[WaterAstro]

Did you just read the thread title?

Did you read the OP?

 

[Pankratous]

What if my girlfriend was JUST using my phone, puts it back in my pocket and then I crash?

 

[WaterAstro]

What if my girlfriend was JUST using my phone, puts it back in my pocket and then I crash?

Then we need a girlfriendalyzer.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I do all my texting in the car by voice using Android Auto through my head unit and my car's microphone and speakers.

I never look away from the road when I do it.

They still read as sms.

 

[Hazmat]

What's the probable cause if an officer is called to an accident scene after it occurs though? I can see an argument for it if the officer witnesses the infraction or crash and can articulate facts that could support probable cause. Even potentially eye witness accounts could be used, I suppose. But the mere existence of an infraction or crash, per se, shouldn't be enough to permit a 4th amendment search of your phone.

the key there is suspected drunk driver, which they can usually tell by speaking/observing an individual. How in the world do you show up to an accident scene and suspect someone was texting?

I'll applaud the last two people in America who saw a police officer fire seven shots in a man's vehicle during a traffic stop and get acquitted who think Johnny Law is afraid of dicking around on your iPhone.

They will look, and it will be admissible unless you're rich.

 

[Attack You]

Or don't text and drive?!? C'mon man, it's not fucking hard. Pull over for like one second if it's that important. You're putting lives at risk.

1) I can't text and drive in a manual.
2) Not even close to being the issue I have with this.

 

[hateradio]

so theyre hacking phones

It's not really a hack if they literally have to connect the phone to the iPad and then do a status on the last apps you used.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Don't blame any of you but it's scary to see what it has come to in America when it comes to trusting the guys that are meant to protect you. Not good and something needs to fundamentally change with your police forces:

I'm English and this is fine to me, you see it happening daily (guilty myself) and people need to be accountable if they cause an accident due to it

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Officer, I have to tell you I have been texting.

"I know."

*shoots driver*

Lmao

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Solution: Carry dummy phone in car.

 

[Jzero]

You know I don't even mind this. I have to swerve at least once a day because of dumb motherfuckers that can't wait until they're at a stoplight/home to text. (In L.A. btw so we have the worst drivers already)

 

[Caddywompus]

they can eat my entire asshole if they think they are gonna plug something into my phone without a warrant.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Couldn't you just put your phone in your glove box and tell the officer it's locked? It's not like you need it while driving.

What stops someone from just handing over a $10 emergency phone you weren't using at the time and linking that to the textalyzer?

Honestly, if this deterrent is successful in curbing texting while operating a vehicle only because people refuse any breach of privacy no matter how minor or noninvasive it still saves lives.

 

[MsKrisp]

As much as I hate people who text and drive (they're everywhere, when I see people swerving or failing to maintain speed I no longer assume it's alcohol). But this is horrifyingly scary to me. I don't like this at all.

 

[Shotgun Kiss]

If all this does is reveal that you've been tapping your phone's screen, and how many times in the last minute or two, I don't see any privacy issues. If it reveals what you were doing/typing, that's too far.

 

[CSJ]

Over here a toddler got run over by someone and through going down the wrong way of a one way street, cctv, sms logs, emergency call and witness reports there's a 60-90 second discrepancy between events where they tried to pin down blame being texting while driving.

Something like this could help, because all signs point to someone pulling over to text, or to slow down and text and didn't see the kid walk out of a park and just ran straight over him at slow speed with people shouting/waving for her to stop and she did not.

Yup, a toddler shouldn't have been outside the park gates but shit happens however that doesn't excuse not paying attention to the "road" in front of you while driving.

 

[hey_monkey]

Over here a toddler got run over by someone and through going down the wrong way of a one way street, cctv, sms logs, emergency call and witness reports there's a 60-90 second discrepancy between events where they tried to pin down blame being texting while driving.

Something like this could help, because all signs point to someone pulling over to text, or to slow down and text and didn't see the kid walk out of a park and just ran straight over him at slow speed with people shouting/waving for her to stop and she did not.

Yup, a toddler shouldn't have been outside the park gates but shit happens however that doesn't excuse not paying attention to the "road" in front of you while driving.

It sounds like there's plenty of witness evidence toward negligence then, not to mention wrong way down a one-way. I'm horrified at the incident but I can't condone massive potential invasion of privacy in this or any other situation.

Texting and driving is a huge problem. Something like this wouldn't be a solution. It's court bait anyway. It's gonna go straight to court. It's a waste of time and resources and gets us no closer to a solution.

 

[br3wnor]

No way this is constitutional. I hate texting while driving, my wife was a terrible offender of it and finally stopped when she got a $300 ticket. Only real way to enforce is just keep super high stakes tickets attached to doing it, this kind of shit is not the answer since there is so much potential for abuse.

 

[Diprosalic]

No way this is constitutional. I hate texting while driving, my wife was a terrible offender of it and finally stopped when she got a $300 ticket. Only real way to enforce is just keep super high stakes tickets attached to doing it, this kind of shit is not the answer since there is so much potential for abuse.

texting while driving should be 1 year suspension. minimum.

 

[h1nch]

they can eat my entire asshole if they think they are gonna plug something into my phone without a warrant.

The only correct answer.

 

[KrellRell]

Definitely a step in the right direction. We'll see how it rolls out.

 

[F34R]

I'm all on board if they can guarantee some privacy issues that obviously are there.

Texting while driving is as bad as drunk driving. If not worse.

It's not even remotely the same or worse.

What's the probable cause if an officer is called to an accident scene after it occurs though? I can see an argument for it if the officer witnesses the infraction or crash and can articulate facts that could support probable cause. Even potentially eye witness accounts could be used, I suppose. But the mere existence of an infraction or crash, per se, shouldn't be enough to permit a 4th amendment search of your phone.

You are spot on with this.

the key there is suspected drunk driver, which they can usually tell by speaking/observing an individual. How in the world do you show up to an accident scene and suspect someone was texting?

I would like some way for the cops to know that the idiot who hit me was texting when it happened.

They're as bad if not worse than drunk drivers.

I'm all ears if you have an alternative for them to discover 30 minutes after the fact that you were staring at your phone when you crashed into me.

You ask questions. That's what you do when you investigate an accident scene. You take a look at all the physical evidence, witness statements, and you ask the offender questions. Why did you veer into the oncoming lane? etc.

Nor do DUI tests and breathalyzers only affect those that drink and drive. That doesn't mean there's no point to them. And it's not about pulling at peoples heartstrings, it's about having as few people text and drive as possible. Some respond to ads and information telling why texting and driving is bad, but others won't listen until there's a strong punishment, and an effort to crack down hard on texting and driving.

Of course it's going to come with consequences, the real question is whether the pros in this case outweigh the cons. I believe they do, so long as they can't force you to hand over or unlock your phone.


If texting (or "texting") while black wasn't already something that would get you killed, I'll be damned. Still, I do think the societal costs of texting while driving need to be examined and compared to possible abuses. Individual cases of abuse are not able to invalidate a crime stopping model. DUI tests, as I have already mentioned, are a good example of this.

No, the con outweighs the pro, period. DUI and breath/blood sample tests aren't a guessing game. There are factors that must give a reasonable suspicion of these elements. If you can't articulate why you believe someone was texting while driving, then you shouldn't be able to search their phone.

Ok, I think we're all in agreement that this is scary. What alternative would you propose for police to figure out if someone was texting when they hit another vehicle or ran over someone?

Because if you're drunk, the punishment is much more severe and I think that texting while driving is on the same level of drunk driving. In fact I think it's worse.

I'll say it again... you have to investigate the cause of an accident, and texting while driving isn't even remotely close to drunk driving.

You're wrong. If there's an accident, they can also measure the skid marks on the road to measure the friction of your tires to determine if you were speeding. They will look at the damage you caused to the other vehicle, the materials of said material and compare it to lab results of different speed of a full vehicle ramming into that material. With that, they can fairly accurately judge your speed. They will also take a look at your headlights to determine if you had your headlights on if you were driving at night (your headlight bulbs will break differently if they were on or off). There is a lot of determination in an investigation and I think that if you were texting falls under that realm.

Your showing that there is evidence of possible speeding. Suspecting someone is texting while driving doesn't fall into that category without something you can articulate as to why. Witness tells you he was looking down just before the crash, or some other info that leads you to reasonably believe they were using their phone. Then there would need to be legislation in that state that allows a warrant-less search of the phone with this textalizer, which would be similar to lood/breath samples for DUI. Otherwise, you would complete an investigation report, then fill out the proper paperwork to issue a search warrant to the cellular company for the records of the phone use. It's pretty easy to do.

I didn't say that they have a right to search your phone. I am vehemently against that. I do think that they should have the ability to determine if you were tapping on your phone when the collision happened.

I don't think a separate sensor/chip in the phone that has no network connectivity and that measures solely screen activity is a terrible idea.


If a cop pulls up to a collision, I want them to be able to determine the cause of the accident. A cop immediately checks if you're impaired just by a visual and smell test if you're alcoholically impaired.

But now you bring up a good point. I live in Colorado and I'm wondering now if they check to see if you've been smoking if you've been in a collision.

Well, the only way to know is if someone tells you, or you search the phone. A chip in the phone is a terrible idea.

I agree. I'll state again that I'm vehemently against the cops being able to carte blanche search your phone. However, I do think they should be able to have the ability to determine if you were tapping away on your phone when you collided with a vehicle or ran over someone.

I'm not going to move on the ultimate goal which is to properly punish people who are texting while driving. I also have said that I think people who text while driving are as bad as if not worse than drunk drivers. I am openly welcoming a discussion on how we can achieve what the cops need to figure that out without what is currently being proposed.

It would be pretty easy if the phone manufacturers make it a separate device/chip outside the OS. I guess to get timestamps there would have to be some sort of connectivity to something to accurately tell the time when the tapping happened though.

I'll explain why that chip is a terrible idea. The cost of doing so would be millions... the engineering needed to completely redesign the phone, manufacture the new chips, government involvement in the criteria as to what the chip can read and display, etc. It's a ridiculous idea, period.

texting while driving should be 1 year suspension. minimum.

I agree. While, over here in SC, it's a $25 fine, and is a non-moving violation. It's ridiculous.

 

[MutFox]

While this probably isn't the way to enforce texting and driving,
there HAS to be a way to enforce it.

People are losing friends/family,
to people texting and driving.
The empathy levels of people that text and drive must be low.
So are the levels of people that defend it.

 

[F34R]

While this probably isn't the way to enforce texting and driving,
there HAS to be a way to enforce it.

People are losing friends/family,
to people texting and driving.
The empathy levels of people that text and drive must be low.
So are the levels of people that defend it.

Do you have some real statistics relating to deaths caused by text/driving?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

So if I'm using a GPS app and take a call via Bluetooth what does that show in the logs?

I'm sure this amazing technology wont be misused.

Oh it will be. I wonder what Spyware they will install once they "check" my phone.

 

[MutFox]

Do you have some real statistics relating to deaths caused by text/driving?

Yes, here's one from my area.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2926240/distracted-driving-deaths-outpacing-impaired-driving-deaths/
Just look on google for "deaths from texting and driving" there's a ton more.

From the article listed, in some areas, it's outpaced drinking and driving deaths.
Wonder what it'll take for people to stop.

 

[Bad_Boy]

What if I pulled over, texted, started up and turn left straight into a police stop?

You gon to jail now!

 

[btrboyev]

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple blocks it

 

[Cynar]

What if I was at a red light and quickly answered a text with "k" and the text had nothing to do with my active driving?

That's against the law in Ontario even at a red light. You shouldn't be operating your handheld while driving. There are a number of issues with you pulling out your phone to respond to a text and they're fairly obvious.

 

[Somnia]

You get a ticket. Got one a couple of months back for that thing, quick use of the phone at a stoplight. They had an undercover cop on the corner calling in cars over the radio and squads were pulling people over half a block down.

$130 bucks out the window.

They've been doing that in my town also. Not really too hidden though, the cop is still in a t-shirt that says police officer, but if you aren't paying attention you wouldn't notice.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

While this is clearly not the solution, something needs to be done. Texting while driving is getting out of hand. Its weird to me how we all loathe drunk drivers, but treat texting while driving like this minor thing. I mean impaired driving is abhorrent, but its not as bad as just not looking at the road at all. People severely underestimate how long they're looking at their phones when responding/reading.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple blocks it

Yeah I don't understand how this gets them anything unless they require the user to unlock the phone first.

 

[KrellRell]

While this is clearly not the solution, something needs to be done. Texting while driving is getting out of hand. Its weird to me how we all loathe drunk drivers, but treat texting while driving like this minor thing. I mean impaired driving is abhorrent, but its not as bad as just not looking at the road at all. People severely underestimate how long they're looking at their phones when responding/reading.

It's already out of hand. It's far worse than drunk driving and so many people don't gaf. 80% of the time I'm at a light the person next to me is looking down, it's absolutely maddening. A study shows the average texter takes their eyes off the road for 23 seconds!!! Imagine driving eyes closed for 23 seconds, unreal.

 

[old]

"This says you texted 5 minutes ago."

"Yes, officer. I was pulled over and at a complete stop. Prove otherwise."

 

[KrellRell]

"This says you texted 5 minutes ago."

"Yes, officer. I was pulled over and at a complete stop. Prove otherwise."

Phones have accelerometers in them and GPS. I'm sure they can tell if the vehicle was moving or not. If they can't at this moment, all the tech is already in place to allow them to.

 

[evilromero]

This is why I long for automated driving. Just to chill in my ride while I browse on my phone. Make it happen and save lives,

 

[C.Mongler]

I kind of like this because there's plenty of idiots who think they're great drivers and text away while zooming down the highway at 80 MPH, but this seems ripe for abuse. Like what if I asked my significant other in the passenger seat to shoot a text to my mom moments before I'm pulled over (which I often do, actually); does that give them the means to prosecute me for that? This seems like something they would need a warrant to execute to me, idk.

 

[Xe4]

Yes, here's one from my area.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2926240/distracted-driving-deaths-outpacing-impaired-driving-deaths/
Just look on google for "deaths from texting and driving" there's a ton more.

From the article listed, in some areas, it's outpaced drinking and driving deaths.
Wonder what it'll take for people to stop.

Yes, thank you. I think a lot of people are going to have to die for people to put it on the same level as DUI, unfortunately. Lots of organizations are trying to reduce it, yet it's still a growing problem.

 

[F34R]

Yes, here's one from my area.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2926240/distracted-driving-deaths-outpacing-impaired-driving-deaths/
Just look on google for "deaths from texting and driving" there's a ton more.

From the article listed, in some areas, it's outpaced drinking and driving deaths.
Wonder what it'll take for people to stop.

Distracted driving isn't necessarily texting and driving. Radio, eating, turning and telling your kids to be quiet, etc., etc