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That time when a game with a limited budget made things better than several AAA games

AAA games require a lot of money, time and -of course- manpower to exist. Even among big publishers there are some that invest huge amounts of money in order to polish their games and steal attention from their competitors, particularly EA, Activision-Blizzard and Take Two Interactive (or was it Bethesda?) are recognized as the publishers that nobody can compete with in terms of budgets and presence (citation needed, but I remember I read this in a report to investors by Capcom), therefore they've created some sort of oligopoly that other companies cannot compete with, which is some sort of double edged sword because they have to be sure the audience for their games is so big they'll make their money back and then some more (which usually they do). To be sure there's a lot of people willing to spend their money on their games, the games have to have a wide appeal, which is something we've discussed a lot on communities like GAF.
Games for portable systems and other smaller games don't look as spectacular as let's say Mass Effect, but ironically the teams working on them may have more freedom than bigger developers at times. And so, more often than not they can make things better than gigantic teams. Do you have a comparison you want to make? I certainly have one:

After Mass Effect: Andromeda's recent backlash and the subsequent reports that say Mass Effect as a franchise won't continue for a while I feel the need to talk a little bit more about the original trilogy. Mass Effect came out in 2007, followed by ME2 in 2010 and it concluded with their third game in 2012. Before the release of the first game I just read reports of how huge it was, how Bioware were dedicating a lot of resources for the facial expressions of ME's characters, how big and clever was the implementation of systems that allowed you to affect the game story with your decisions; and that's just without taking into account obvious things like how incredible the game looked at the time (it still kind of does). Let's just save time and say that eventually ME became a very successful trilogy that ended with a bang... And this is the point I wanted to make: the games became so big that in the end Bioware decided that no matter what choices you made, the story will always ended in the same way; and we know what followed: a massive backlash bigger than what we saw for Andromeda.

And this is the point where I finally mention a game that made the whole "your choices affect the story" better: In 2009, Atlus released Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor for Nintendo DS. Devil Survivor is an urban fantasy turn-based 2D isometric RPG that doesn't even use the DS touchscreen as a... well a touchscreen. With nice sprites, a pretty good soundtrack, a high difficulty and a time management system, it manages to present the player different routes that lead to several endings based on the decisions you take even early in the game. The time management system works like this: there are several missions available that causes the time to move forward a little bit, by deciding what missions you do at a certain time you can follow certain storylines in which an ally can even get killed without the possibility to correct your decisions that lead to that event; there are other moments that will affect the story depending on your stance to certain issues, especially when you get close to the end. But the whole beauty of this system is that you can have five different endings and, when the game was re-released for 3DS they added even more content that lead to other conclusions.

In the end, we have a story for a handheld game that you can affect so you can get one of 5 possible endings vs a millions of dollars trilogy made during a span of 7+ years that ended literally with an explosion.

Yes, you can argue that Mass Effect is much better than DeSu in every other single way, but then you'd be missing the point of this thread: "that time when a game with a limited budget made things better than a AAA game"

Have other examples, GAF? Please, tell us more about them.
 
I'll never stop singing the praises of Cry of Fear, a free game (it's on Steam... for free) made by a few twenty-somethings in Sweden that's a far better, far bigger, far scarier horror game than just about anything coming out of Dead Space, or modern Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Don't get me wrong, RE7 is great, but it's no Cry of Fear. It was built out of a modified version of the Half-Life engine (GoldSrc) and it looks pretty goddamn good. Not like Crysis-level good, but it's definitely got some shiny production quality considering its humble tech and the meager resources that fueled its development.

And in addition to a MASSIVE campaign (I think it took me 23 hours the first time I played it), there's a host of small one-off scenarios and a full fledged coop mode.

And it's free.

And it's better than the last horror game you paid $60 for.

AND IT'S FREE.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/223710/Cry_of_Fear/

edit: Sweden, not Eastern Europe.

edit 2: FREE
 
I'll never stop singing the praises of Cry of Fear, a free game (it's on Steam... for free) made by a few twenty-somethings in Eastern Europe that's a far better, far bigger, far scarier horror game than just about anything coming out of Dead Space, or modern Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Don't get me wrong, RE7 is great, but it's no Cry of Fear. It was built out of a modified version of the Half-Life engine (GoldSrc) and it looks pretty goddamn good. Not like Crysis-level good, but it's definitely got some shiny production quality considering its humble tech and the meager resources that fueled its development.

And in addition to a MASSIVE campaign (I think it took me 23 hours the first time I played it), there's a host of small one-off scenarios and a full fledged coop mode.

And it's free.

And it's better than the last horror game you paid $60 for.

AND IT'S FREE.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/223710/Cry_of_Fear/

It certainly looks interesting, but the last time I played a survival horror game I almost got diabetes.

Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden is better than the majority of JRPGs that came out of the 7th gen

They use the music of other JRPGs though...
 
Well Divinity Original Sin pretty much laughs in the face of literally every AAA RPG that uses "player freedom and choice" as a main selling point.
 
Subnautica is better than No Man's Sky by a large margin in my opinion. Goes to show AAA is a concept for people who don't want to research to have their buying choices made for them.
 
It's actually easier for a game with simpler presentation to do branching story paths. Cheaper to make each branch.

Big shooters also often feel like "hallways" because they've got so much stuff going on that they can't keep very big parts of levels loaded at once. It's cool when a game sacrifices some sheen for more open or retraversable environments.
 
I'll never stop singing the praises of Cry of Fear, a free game (it's on Steam... for free) made by a few twenty-somethings in Eastern Europe that's a far better, far bigger, far scarier horror game than just about anything coming out of Dead Space, or modern Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Don't get me wrong, RE7 is great, but it's no Cry of Fear. It was built out of a modified version of the Half-Life engine (GoldSrc) and it looks pretty goddamn good. Not like Crysis-level good, but it's definitely got some shiny production quality considering its humble tech and the meager resources that fueled its development.

And in addition to a MASSIVE campaign (I think it took me 23 hours the first time I played it), there's a host of small one-off scenarios and a full fledged coop mode.

And it's free.

And it's better than the last horror game you paid $60 for.

AND IT'S FREE.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/223710/Cry_of_Fear/

Seconded. By far the scariest game I've ever played. Tops AvP, Amnesia, the lot.
 
Hollow Knight was made on a relatively small budget and managed to be quality throughout the 40 so hours I took to complete it. In fact, it might be my favorite game of this gen so far.
 
It's actually easier for a game with simpler presentation to do branching story paths. Cheaper to make each branch.

Big shooters also often feel like "hallways" because they've got so much stuff going on that they can't keep very big parts of levels loaded at once. It's cool when a game sacrifices some sheen for more open or retraversable environments.
Mmhmm. It's really not uncommon for a small or indie game to be better at a specific thing than AAA games as AAA games are designed to be accessible while simultaneously trying to do everything, so they frequently end up with surface explorations of systems or concepts.

It's why things like Dark Souls and Bloodborne are able to explore their combat systems so deeply - because there isn't all that much else to those games besides those systems. Compare that to Mass Effect where they have to include compelling gameplay, a branching cinematic narrative, some kind of base or ship management mini game etc.
 
This is a pretty common occurrence. Due to their insane budgets, AAA games are often pressured to be designed for the mainstream audience, and in doing so, leads to a lot of design compromises for convenience and production values above all else. Games with smaller budgets are able to target enthusiast audiences and put all of their efforts on core design, rather than designing for mass appeal.
 
Trails in the Sky/Trails of cold Steel vs. new Final Fantasy games. The first have towns, well written dialogues, likeable characters, worldbuilding...

Same goes for Xenoblade on Wii vs. FF 13.
 
I'll never stop singing the praises of Cry of Fear, a free game (it's on Steam... for free) made by a few twenty-somethings in Eastern Europe that's a far better, far bigger, far scarier horror game than just about anything coming out of Dead Space, or modern Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Don't get me wrong, RE7 is great, but it's no Cry of Fear. It was built out of a modified version of the Half-Life engine (GoldSrc) and it looks pretty goddamn good. Not like Crysis-level good, but it's definitely got some shiny production quality considering its humble tech and the meager resources that fueled its development.

And in addition to a MASSIVE campaign (I think it took me 23 hours the first time I played it), there's a host of small one-off scenarios and a full fledged coop mode.

And it's free.

And it's better than the last horror game you paid $60 for.

AND IT'S FREE.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/223710/Cry_of_Fear/
Is the entire game coop or is it a separate coop campaign?
 
Maybe I am wrong but most of Nintendo games have a tiny budget compared to AAA western games. Pretty sure ZBOTW had and small budget compared to Fallout 4, Mass Effect, etc.

Also game from FROM and Altus; maybe Persona 5 had a mass budget but still do not think at the level of Bethesda games.
 
This has become more and more common with time. An early and striking example would be World of Goo. Released in 2008, well before the recent indie boom, it seemed to compete directly with the AAA games of its time. It was competitive in graphics, art direction, story, music and scope, and arguably far ahead regarding gameplay ideas with its extremely original puzzle mechanics. It was stunning to learn that the game was developed by only two people working mostly from laptops in coffee shops.
 
Oxenfree perfected dialogue trees in games. The lines actually changed based on when you said them and it was used fitting phrases to connect the dialogue back and forth.
 
I'll never stop singing the praises of Cry of Fear, a free game (it's on Steam... for free) made by a few twenty-somethings in Eastern Europe that's a far better, far bigger, far scarier horror game than just about anything coming out of Dead Space, or modern Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Don't get me wrong, RE7 is great, but it's no Cry of Fear. It was built out of a modified version of the Half-Life engine (GoldSrc) and it looks pretty goddamn good. Not like Crysis-level good, but it's definitely got some shiny production quality considering its humble tech and the meager resources that fueled its development.

And in addition to a MASSIVE campaign (I think it took me 23 hours the first time I played it), there's a host of small one-off scenarios and a full fledged coop mode.

And it's free.

And it's better than the last horror game you paid $60 for.

AND IT'S FREE.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/223710/Cry_of_Fear/

Eastern Europe? They are Swedish and the game plays out in Stockholm. Also, while the game looks really good for being in GoldSrc, it really doesn't look that modern, understandably.

Is the entire game coop or is it a separate coop campaign?
There is a seperate coop campaign where you play as cops.
 
Most AAA games don't do anything particularly better than lower-budget titles, they just have higher graphical fidelity and huge marketing budgets.
 
You could single out one specific thing that an indie game does better than all AAA games out of every kindasorta highprofile indie game (trying to avoid that dumb "triple indie" term here) that released in the past couple of years.

I'm mean this is literally the reason people respond with "go indie" to these "I'm tired of modern games" threads/complaints.

Let'sbe honets here, AAA games are the equivalent of big budget Hollywood movies, you know what you get but don't expect anything surprising or even genre moving.
 
Can we count Bravely Default? I vaguely remember reading that the budget to make it was small, but the game turned out to be such a hit among JRPG fans.

What was the budget around Granblue Fantasy? It seems to be gaining popularity.
 
Pillars of Eternity pretty much takes a dump on every other RPG except for maybe Witcher 3 in terms of story telling and world building.

Gravity Rush 2, I imagine, didn't have a huge budget but has more fleshed out, relatable and likable characters than just about any AAA game.
 
Despite NieR: Automata's lacking budget, it's better than a lot of games, but the most notable one would have to be FFXV.

FFXV was that game where the majority of people had been waiting for years for it to come out and deliver. It had the AAA polish, from the monster designs to its numerous impressive animations. Its world looked gorgeous. To put it simply, it was the big JARPG everyone was extremely excited to play, the one Square Enix (understandably) put all its efforts into marketing.

It finally released last year, and yea, wasn't so hot. Yes, there are obviously those that like or even love it, but it's quite difficult to ignore its numerous shortcomings. The story, while ultimately straightforward, was extremely messy, with little attention being given to characters that we were led to believe were important, or having things happen off-screen. Combat was flashy, but quite shallow. Sidequests were embarrassingly void of any narrative value. Ch. 13. Being occasionally separated from your fellow party members in order to clumsily set up future DLC. The ending salvaged it somewhat for some, but yea, outside of the main party and the music, there's a lot to dislike regarding this game. Or more accurately, it clearly could've been a more satisfying experience, something that's further illustrated by the developers' unorthodox attempts to improve the game (a single-player one no less) far past what one would normally expect.

Nier on the other hand excelled in what it wanted to do despite having nowhere near XV's budget. Better story. More immersive world. Better characters, including those outside of the main cast. Better sidequests. While not perfect, Platinum offered combat and boss fights that were far more engaging and impactful. And while taste in music is obviously even more subjective than the aforementioned, Nier's OST was better too. :P

XV took forever to come out, and still managed to be disappointing. Automata on the other hand came out in around 2 years, garnered a much more positive critical reception, to the point where it apparently even shocked Square Enix, who probably were assuming the roles would be reversed if anything.

But yea, I just wanted an ARPG that would give me a wacky setting and cool powers, as well as a good story. But between the two, only Nier succeeded in its execution of providing that. It's a miracle the game even got made to begin with, but I genuinely didn't think it'd be that much more impressive than something as big as XV.
 
a limited budget saved Super Metroid from becoming Other M since Sakamoto had that idea since those days but tech didn't allow him to do it so he had to resort to what the SNES provided. then he got his budget and tech on Wii and well....

this fits the thread right?
 
I'd argue that most indie games prioritize art direction better than AAA. You see a lot more liberty with vibrancy, color saturation, and contrast than you see in the average AAA game, and you also see a wider variety of styles like cell-shading, hand drawn or hand painted art, pixel art...
 
I'll never stop singing the praises of Cry of Fear, a free game (it's on Steam... for free) made by a few twenty-somethings in Eastern Europe that's a far better, far bigger, far scarier horror game than just about anything coming out of Dead Space, or modern Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Don't get me wrong, RE7 is great, but it's no Cry of Fear. It was built out of a modified version of the Half-Life engine (GoldSrc) and it looks pretty goddamn good. Not like Crysis-level good, but it's definitely got some shiny production quality considering its humble tech and the meager resources that fueled its development.

And in addition to a MASSIVE campaign (I think it took me 23 hours the first time I played it), there's a host of small one-off scenarios and a full fledged coop mode.

And it's free.

And it's better than the last horror game you paid $60 for.

AND IT'S FREE.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/223710/Cry_of_Fear/

I prefer Afraid of Monsters: Director's Cut on Sven Co-Op over COF. Some of the most fun I've had in any multiplayer game. Works better if you are playing with your friends
 
Ctrl-F -> "Cities: Skylines", "Sim City" = zero results.


ARE YOU SERIOUS GAF -.-

Yeah, in city building the small game long overtook the big one.
 
Maybe I am wrong but most of Nintendo games have a tiny budget compared to AAA western games. Pretty sure ZBOTW had and small budget compared to Fallout 4, Mass Effect, etc.

Also game from FROM and Altus; maybe Persona 5 had a mass budget but still do not think at the level of Bethesda games.

I think the majority of Japanese games have far, far smaller budgets than their western counterparts
 
Indie games do it all the time, the consequence of being able to laser focus on specific aspects without having to be jacks-of-all-trades or portray stuff with high budget visuals. As good an RPG Witcher 3 is or expansive as Skyrim is, they pale in comparison to the kind of depth you'd find in a Dwarf Fortress, Caves of Qud, Nethack, or giving you the player agency found in Age of Decadence or Divinity.

Writing and storytelling tends to be more diverse or at least able to experiment more freely and explore areas that most AAA games can't/won't, between the myriad text adventures, Twine, more modern interactive fiction like 80 Days, games like Soma, Stanley Parable, That Dragon Cancer, etc.

I also think you see much more aesthetic variety. Unless you're Nintendo or some other titles, AAA comes with the expectation of more realistic graphics. GTA and Bloodborne are completely different in terms of setting and tone, but they both are 3D and leaning towards realism in their textures, presentation, etc.

While in May alone
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Eastern Europe? They are Swedish and the game plays out in Stockholm. Also, while the game looks really good for being in GoldSrc, it really doesn't look that modern, understandably.

Ah, for some reason I had though I'd heard they were from Romania or something but couldn't remember, so I just said Eastern Europe. I stand corrected.
 
Persona 5 is several orders of magnitude better and more expansive than FFXV. In literally every way but raw polycount and lighting tech.

Their budgets are probably incomparable with XV being a huge resources dump.
 
Despite NieR: Automata's lacking budget, it's better than a lot of games, but the most notable one would have to be FFXV.

FFXV was that game where the majority of people had been waiting for years for it to come out and deliver. It had the AAA polish, from the monster designs to its numerous impressive animations. Its world looked gorgeous. To put it simply, it was the big JARPG everyone was extremely excited to play, the one Square Enix (understandably) put all its efforts into marketing.

It finally released last year, and yea, wasn't so hot. Yes, there are obviously those that like or even love it, but it's quite difficult to ignore its numerous shortcomings. The story, while ultimately straightforward, was extremely messy, with little attention being given to characters that we were led to believe were important, or having things happen off-screen. Combat was flashy, but quite shallow. Sidequests were embarrassingly void of any narrative value. Ch. 13. Being occasionally separated from your fellow party members in order to clumsily set up future DLC. The ending salvaged it somewhat for some, but yea, outside of the main party and the music, there's a lot to dislike regarding this game. Or more accurately, it clearly could've been a more satisfying experience, something that's further illustrated by the developers' unorthodox attempts to improve the game (a single-player one no less) far past what one would normally expect.

Nier on the other hand excelled in what it wanted to do despite having nowhere near XV's budget. Better story. More immersive world. Better characters, including those outside of the main cast. Better sidequests. While not perfect, Platinum offered combat and boss fights that were far more engaging and impactful. And while taste in music is obviously even more subjective than the aforementioned, Nier's OST was better too. :P

XV took forever to come out, and still managed to be disappointing. Automata on the other hand came out in around 2 years, garnered a much more positive critical reception, to the point where it apparently even shocked Square Enix, who probably were assuming the roles would be reversed if anything.

But yea, I just wanted an ARPG that would give me a wacky setting and cool powers, as well as a good story. But between the two, only Nier succeeded in its execution of providing that. It's a miracle the game even got made to begin with, but I genuinely didn't think it'd be that much more impressive than something as big as XV.

Came here to post about Nier. I was really looking forward to FFXV but was less than impressed with its combat, story, characters, and music. Nier is the JRPG I have been craving for years. I thought it was FFXV but it was Nier.
 
Not a Indie vs AAA case, but Unturned, a free to play game made by one 16 year old dude, was/is a more functional and fun DayZ than DayZ itself and most of those types of games.
 
Ctrl-F -> "Cities: Skylines", "Sim City" = zero results.


ARE YOU SERIOUS GAF -.-

Yeah, in city building the small game long overtook the big one.

This is just the first page of a thread about what doesn't seem to be a popular opinion. I'm interested in Cities Skylines myself but haven't had the chance to play it. You could tell me why I should play it instead of Sim City.
 
If you are going to compare games with Mass Effect Andromeda you should really choose Xenoblade Chronicles X. They are essentially the exact same game except Xenoblade X has an ATB battle system while Mass Effect Andromeda is a TPS.
 
Came here to post about Nier. I was really looking forward to FFXV but was less than impressed with its combat, story, characters, and music. Nier is the JRPG I have been craving for years. I thought it was FFXV but it was Nier.

You know XV messed up somewhere when someone can half-jokingly say that Nier's Engine Blade weapon story did a better job of illustrating Noctis' relationship with his father, leaving you to consider that they might actually be right.

 
Indie games do it all the time, the consequence of being able to laser focus on specific aspects without having to be jacks-of-all-trades or portray stuff with high budget visuals. As good an RPG Witcher 3 is or expansive as Skyrim is, they pale in comparison to the kind of depth you'd find in a Dwarf Fortress, Caves of Qud, Nethack, or giving you the player agency found in Age of Decadence or Divinity.

Writing and storytelling tends to be more diverse or at least able to experiment more freely and explore areas that most AAA games can't/won't, between the myriad text adventures, Twine, more modern interactive fiction like 80 Days, games like Soma, Stanley Parable, That Dragon Cancer, etc.

I also think you see much more aesthetic variety. Unless you're Nintendo or some other titles, AAA comes with the expectation of more realistic graphics. GTA and Bloodborne are completely different in terms of setting and tone, but they both are 3D and leaning towards realism in their textures, presentation, etc.

While in May alone
Some of these look pretty cool, can you list the names of these games for me please?
 
You know XV messed up somewhere when someone can half-jokingly say that Nier's Engine Blade weapon story did a better job of illustrating Noctis' relationship with his father, leaving you to consider that they might actually be right.

Its true.

FFXV does not even have a fleshed out in-game datalog as Nier does.
 
Ctrl-F -> "Cities: Skylines", "Sim City" = zero results.


ARE YOU SERIOUS GAF -.-

Yeah, in city building the small game long overtook the big one.

I like Cities:Skylines, but it is a shell compared to Sim Cities from last decade. The depth and simulation elements are extremely lacking and difficulty is non existent.
 
This is a pretty common occurrence. Due to their insane budgets, AAA games are often pressured to be designed for the mainstream audience, and in doing so, leads to a lot of design compromises for convenience and production values above all else. Games with smaller budgets are able to target enthusiast audiences and put all of their efforts on core design, rather than designing for mass appeal.

To add to this, it isn't just about the budgets and pressure to be a blockbuster success (although that is certainly a factor), but the immense additional complexity of engineering and administrative/managerial overhead. Massively complex pieces of software break easily (and often bizarrely), and one shouldn't think of QA as something indies lack but rather something that big studios need, on a large scale, just to keep apace of their own work. Add to this the complexity of development assistance distributed over multiple studios or subsidiaries, or business-driven pressures to adopt a certain engine for IP/licensing reasons, or the dictates of a tight and regular schedule to placate a publicly-traded publisher's shareholders, and one can see how when it comes to polish, AAA productions arguably have a harder road ahead of them than indies do.

Small teams on small projects enjoy the advantages of focus and ease of course correction.
 
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