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The 87th Academy Awards |OT| The One That Matters

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Blader

Member
You're comparing a character's pierced ears to the disappearance of a character portraying the lead actor's step-father?

I'm comparing the need to have one's hand held through every turn.

The scene between him and Mason on the porch, and the one preceding it in the kitchen, is enough of an echo of similar confrontations between Mason and the first alcoholic stepfather to give you the "here we go again" feeling. You don't need to see more drunken arguments or the divorce itself to know that that's where it's heading again. His mother's consistent attraction to the wrong kinds of men, and the seamless-to-the-point-of-overlooked cycle of marriages and divorces, is the whole point.
 

Sanjuro

Member
In the world of 12 Years a Boyhood, one drunk the same as the next. Is Mason an abusive alchy since he drinks so much? Is that why his girlfriend left him?

I don't need the film to hold my hand, I just need it to be less foolish. The two step-fathers were much different characters in the way they were portrayed. To give the guy a can of beer and make you assume they are both identical at that stage is absurd.
 

MIMIC

Banned
In the world of 12 Years a Boyhood, one drunk the same as the next. Is Mason an abusive alchy since he drinks so much? Is that why his girlfriend left him?

I don't need the film to hold my hand, I just need it to be less foolish. The two step-fathers were much different characters in the way they were portrayed. To give the guy a can of beer and make you assume they are both identical at that stage is absurd.

I didn't assume that the 3rd guy was a drunk. The film treated him very differently than the "chores" guy. When he confronted Mason on the porch, he just seemed pissed off at Mason's apathy for rules.....like any step-father would be (I presume). But I admit, when the scene started, I was thinking, "Wow....mommy sure knows how to pick'em, huh?" But when the scene ended, I my presumption changed.
 
I'm comparing the need to have one's hand held through every turn.

The scene between him and Mason on the porch, and the one preceding it in the kitchen, is enough of an echo of similar confrontations between Mason and the first alcoholic stepfather to give you the "here we go again" feeling. You don't need to see more drunken arguments or the divorce itself to know that that's where it's heading again. His mother's consistent attraction to the wrong kinds of men, and the seamless-to-the-point-of-overlooked cycle of marriages and divorces, is the whole point.

The porch scene didn't even make the father look that bad. He was having a beer and a little drunk but it's not exactly unusual to lecture a teen about being on time. At most, both scenes established that his step father is out-of-touch with Mason's individuality and independence. There was definitely homophobia as well. A scene between him and Mason's mom would have gone a long way in establishing the reasoning behind the divorce.
 

Sanjuro

Member
I didn't assume that the 3rd guy was a drunk. The film treated him very differently than the "chores" guy. When he confronted Mason on the porch, he just seemed pissed off at Mason's apathy for rules.....like any step-father would be (I presume). But I admit, when the scene started, I was thinking, "Wow....mommy sure knows how to pick'em, huh?" But when the scene ended, I my presumption changed.

Yeah. I mean, his advice was no better or worse than the art teacher who was lecturing Mason. Mason was being a mute bitch at the time, and everyone was trying to guide him in some sort of direction.

The porch scene didn't even make the father look that bad. He was having a beer and a little drunk but it's not exactly unusual to lecture a teen about being on time. At most, both scenes established that his step father is out-of-touch with Mason's individuality and independence. There was definitely homophobia as well. A scene between him and Mason's mom would have gone a long way in establishing the reasoning behind the divorce.

Even the homophobia wasn't radical either. If I came home with painted nails, my father would probably grasp at his high school experiences and convey them as I'm messing up. It's not necessarily wrong.
 
You know that's the Latin American way. ALWAYS latch on to the success of your countrymen as if they were always representing your nation. :lol

That's wacist.
I really don't know why it's so widespread. I mean, it's not like anyone actually identified with him before, and the fact that there are newspapers here in Colombia also saying "The Latino Oscar" is just ridiculous.

Lady Gaga is this generations diva, isn't she?
 

Ridley327

Member
You're comparing a character's pierced ears to the disappearance of a character portraying the lead actor's step-father?

You know, it wouldn't surprise me if Mason treated them about the same. There's a strong inference that he's simply uninterested in pursuing any real relationship with stepdad #2 due how well things went with numero uno. With the film being from his perspective, it makes perfect sense why he'd just disappear.
 
Even the homophobia wasn't radical either. If I came home with painted nails, my father would probably grasp at his high school experiences and convey them as I'm messing up. It's not necessarily wrong.

Yeah, it could really just be the father being out of touch with current teens. That's not unusual. You will find that type of father/dynamic on sitcoms without anyone getting a divorce over it.

The two scenes did nothing to establish that he was a bad husband or father.
 

Blader

Member
The porch scene didn't even make the father look that bad. He was having a beer and a little drunk but it's not exactly unusual to lecture a teen about being on time. At most, both scenes established that his step father is out-of-touch with Mason's individuality and independence. There was definitely homophobia as well. A scene between him and Mason's mom would have gone a long way in establishing the reasoning behind the divorce.

His being out-of-touch isn't some harmless "I just don't get you kids and your music" mindset though, he's just outright shitty toward him.

I don't know, I thought the inevitable breakdown of that marriage and where that relationship was ultimately heading seemed clear enough to me already. It's also pretty tangential to Mason's life anyway, and taking the time to spend a scene or two exclusively on fleshing out another divorce seems pretty antithetical to the point of the movie. (edit: or what Ridley said)

Even the homophobia wasn't radical either. If I came home with painted nails, my father would probably grasp at his high school experiences and convey them as I'm messing up. It's not necessarily wrong.

lol, if that's your take on it, it's probably no wonder you came out of it feeling the way you did.
 
His being out-of-touch isn't some harmless "I just don't get you kids and your music" mindset though, he's just outright shitty toward him.

I don't know, I thought the inevitable breakdown of that marriage and where that relationship was ultimately heading seemed clear enough to me already.



.

Mason's apathy towards, well, just about everything deserved a bit of a lecture. The step-dad was a bit of a dick about it but it wasn't out of bounds by any means.
 

Sanjuro

Member
lol, if that's your take on it, it's probably no wonder you came out of it feeling the way you did.

I took it as the film intended me to take it.

A. It shows the character lecturing Mason, no different than anyone else at this portion in the film.
B. The character for the first time was shown wearing his work uniform. A corrections officer. His attitude seems to be reflecting a difficult time on the job would be the first assumption.
C. He wasn't being violent in any manner towards Mason, his wife, the planet Earth.

NOPE, it's D.

D. Dude had a beer.
 

BkMogul

Member
Wanted Keaton to win, but after watching Redmayne's performance, I couldn't be mad. He was that good. But at least Birdman and Alejandro got their top prizez

Seeing certain people crying about "Sniper" getting shafted are delusional. Every category it was in had better and more deserving choices.
 

Blader

Member
I took it as the film intended me to take it.

A. It shows the character lecturing Mason, no different than anyone else at this portion in the film.
B. The character for the first time was shown wearing his work uniform. A corrections officer. His attitude seems to be reflecting a difficult time on the job would be the first assumption.
C. He wasn't being violent in any manner towards Mason, his wife, the planet Earth.

NOPE, it's D.

D. Dude had a beer.

And don't forget, there's nothing even really wrong with a little passive homophobia!
 

CassSept

Member
The worst scene in Boyhood, by far, is the teens talking about women and beer in that unfinished house. It was laughably bad.

It felt like one of those Kyle Mooney/Beck Bennett SNL skits. I love those skits because they're hilariously awkward representations of 90s/80s "very special Blossom" sitcom moments. I just didn't expect to see that in a feature film.

Cringeworthy, yes, hilariously bad? I thought it was surprisingly accurate, I've heard similar conversation myself. Hormone-fueled teens with no sexual experience make up the darndest stories about their sex life.
 

Sanjuro

Member
And don't forget, there's nothing even really wrong with a little passive homophobia!

Well, seeing how Mason wasn't gay or bi-sexual, there is actually nothing wrong with it in the context of the film. It's a father giving his son shit in the morning for painted nails.

If there were deeper or other brooding problems, they aren't even glanced at.
 
Wanted Keaton to win, but after watching Redmayne's performance, I couldn't be mad. He was that good. But at least Birdman and Alejandro got their top prizez

Seeing certain people crying about "Sniper" getting shafted are delusional. Every category it was in had better and more deserving choices.

This is always true at the Oscars. Time will tell which films have a lasting impact. Out of the films nominated Grand Budapest is the only one I'll want to see again in five years, but that doesn't mean birdman didn't deserve to win.
 
Really glad that the films that the 3 films I liked the most (Birdman, GHB and Whiplash), where the ones to take awards home.

Apart from animation, were Lego was robbed for not even being nominated.
 
Cringeworthy, yes, hilariously bad? I thought it was surprisingly accurate, I've heard similar conversation myself. Hormone-fueled teens with no sexual experience make up the darndest stories about their sex life.

I had been a part of conversations like that in high school. I think it's just the mix of terrible acting and poor dialogue that made the whole thing laughable for me. It felt like I was watching an after school special on peer pressure that was produced and directed by a local affiliate.
 
I'm glad that Boyhood didn't win Best Picture. It's a good film, and one I respect, but it's not Best Picture good. The idea behind the movie is better than the final product.

I've yet to see Birdman, but plan to this week.
 

Blader

Member
It's still nowhere near enough to establish an off screen divorce.

A third scene showing issues between the step dad and the mom would have gone a long way.

I get where you're coming from, personally I just thought the outcome there was telegraphed enough as is and didn't really need any more fleshing out, nor was it really all that important to Mason's or the movie's story anyway. Like Ridley pointed out, that both he and the film treat yet another of the mother's divorces as an afterthought and doesn't spend much time at all dwelling on it is kinda the point.

Cringeworthy, yes, hilariously bad? I thought it was surprisingly accurate, I've heard similar conversation myself. Hormone-fueled teens with no sexual experience make up the darndest stories about their sex life.

I said this in another thread, but the only thing that doesn't ring true about that scene is the lack of dropping the word "gay" in every other sentence.
 
You're comparing a character's pierced ears to the disappearance of a character portraying the lead actor's step-father?

If the movie wanted to focus on the disappearance of the step father it would have done so. The movie never had any intention on focusing on all of the major events of Mason's life. It was about focusing on slices of his life. At the time when the house was sold, the stepfather was long gone.

What you wanted was tacky ass exposition. This isn't legitimate criticism. This is just hating for hating's sake. Go hang out with the rest of the people who are saying, "12 years a lost Oscar." LOL LOL LOL! So hilarious.

I have no problems with people criticizing Boyhood for being "boring." I have no problems with Birdman beating Boyhood even though I thought Boyhood was the better movie. Birdman is a great movie and it deserved every single one of its wins. This isn't any great highway robbery. However, a lot of the criticism of Boyhood boils down to people wanting the movie to be something it never aspired to be.
 

BkMogul

Member
This is always true at the Oscars. Time will tell which films have a lasting impact. Out of the films nominated Grand Budapest is the only one I'll want to see again in five years, but that doesn't mean birdman didn't deserve to win.

I agree. Not to say Sniper will fade into a distant memory, but I have a strong feeling Birdman will have lasting appeal for years to come. It's no Slumdog Millionaire, that's for sure.
 
mnV1Xy8.gif
 

Blader

Member
Really glad that the films that the 3 films I liked the most (Birdman, GHB and Whiplash), where the ones to take awards home.

Apart from animation, were Lego was robbed for not even being nominated.

The worst snub for me was Life Itself not even getting a nomination. I don't really mind Citizenfour winning even if it wasn't my favorite doc of the year, but to not get Life Itself even up on the board at all sucks. Not sure if that's the Academy continuing its streak of snubs against Steve James, or Hollywood just not having a lot of love lost for the guy who probably tore into each of them at least once. :lol
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Good god I don't think I've seen any of these movies yet aside from Grand Budapest Hotel. Really wanna see Boyhood, Nightcrawler, Whiplash and Birdman. I got some watchin' to do...
 

Sanjuro

Member
The film doesn't dwell on much of anything. It feels like a pet project that was cobbled together after many years of random filming. There is no narrative. As a feature film, it fails on presenting anything interesting to the viewer beyond "Oh, I remember something like that growing up." Even when the film has those moments you feel nothing.

Remember that time you were bullied in the bathroom for a few brief moments...then nothing ever happened again?

Remember that time you were dicking around with some friends...then nothing happened?


It works in the sense of throwbacks to one's experiences in life, which very well may be not very interesting. In that manner it's fine. When people start attempting to rationalize and make the film deep, it's hard to find points with any footing.

It was an OKAY film. The only time watching it where I despised anything was the fucking Latino kid who thanked his mother at the restaurant. Everything else was par the course.
 
The film doesn't dwell on much of anything. It feels like a pet project that was cobbled together after many years of random filming. There is no narrative. As a feature film, it fails on presenting anything interesting to the viewer beyond "Oh, I remember something like that growing up." Even when the film has those moments you feel nothing.

Remember that time you were bullied in the bathroom for a few brief moments...then nothing ever happened again?

Remember that time you were dicking around with some friends...then nothing happened?


It works in the sense of throwbacks to one's experiences in life, which very well may be not very interesting. In that manner it's fine. When people start attempting to rationalize and make the film deep, it's hard to find points with any footing.

It was an OKAY film. The only time watching it where I despised anything was the fucking Latino kid who thanked his mother at the restaurant. Everything else was par the course.

Except the point of the movie is that those little moments matter. and that nothing grand needs to happen, the moment is enough. Your life is not just the sum of your milestones, it's also about the little moments in between. It spells it out in the last scene between Olivia & Mason Jr.

If you don't like the message, that's fine. But, don't complain that the movie didn't have that message. If you want a movie to literally spell out its themes, then go watch films that are more exposition heavy.
 

Oersted

Member
This is always true at the Oscars. Time will tell which films have a lasting impact. Out of the films nominated Grand Budapest is the only one I'll want to see again in five years, but that doesn't mean birdman didn't deserve to win.

Which was the last best picture with lasting impact? Titanic?
 

Sanjuro

Member
Except the point of the movie is that those little moments matter. It spells it out in the last scene between Olivia & Mason Jr.

Again, that is life. When you are watching a film about those little moments it doesn't excuse itself from bad filmmaking.

If you don't like the message, that's fine. But, don't complain that the movie didn't have that message. If you want a movie to literally spell out its themes, then go watch films that are more exposition heavy.

If you didn't like Boyhood, then you can git out? Really?

I watch a ton of films. I don't approach them and ask if they fit specific criteria beforehand.
 

Blader

Member
Which was the last best picture with lasting impact? Titanic?

Much as people here like to shit on it, I think The Hurt Locker's impact on the public consciousness and its relevance only grows more and more with each year -- partly because, as more troops have come home, the weight of the war on their minds and ability to cope is becoming clearer and allowing more vets to talk about.

Not that the Hurt Locker is really facilitating that change itself, just that it helped shine a light on it. I mean really, everything people are praising American Sniper for, was already done and done much better in Bigelow's film.
 
I liked Birdman quite a lot, but I wish Boyhood had gotten at least Best Director or Best Picture. Birdman is diminished a bit by being somewhat shallow and not really about anything meaningful. However, it's both fun and amazing. I'm one of the people who says it's mostly gimmicks, but they are *really good gimmicks*. I agree with some criticism that the basic story is pretty trite with some fairly hoary clichés.
 

Sanjuro

Member
That's not what he meant. You're arguing Boyhood didn't have any themes or message. He says the opposite. Whether you like it or not is a whole 'nother story.

It is what he meant. How would I know a film's themes prior to watching it myself?

I also never said the film didn't have a message.
 

Maxim726X

Member
Ugh, Birdman.

I mean it was a good film, but there were at least 3 better movies that came out this year... Whiplash should have taken it.
 
Scanning through the thread, and surprised at the Big Hero 6 hate. I thought it was the best animated movie I saw last year. HTTYD2 was pretty bad, imho. BH6 had some fairly complex themes and good messages, which is stuff I look for in a kid's movie.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Yours is an interesting take though, Stooge.

I didn't really get most of it either, but I tend to blame myself and try to look harder when that happens, but perhaps this film isn't necessarily deserving. Mostly I took it to be about getting old, which I've always liked as a theme. And I thought Norton did pretty good. But yeah, it's definitely not going to stick with me like Nightcrawler did.

I mean, the acting in Birdman was fine. No one was downright awful, but it was all over the top stage acting. Plenty of yelling and throwing things. Very little room for nuance. Which, yes I understand part of the "point" was that you are watching a movie about a play about a book and everything in the entire movie is cute little "hey, hey you get it, you get it.. everything is symbolism".

I tend to not thing I just "didn't get" movies and blame myself. Not least of which is I'm a reasonably smart person, so it's a bit on you to make sure that your movie isn't too obtuse. In this case, the movie isn't obtuse at all. It wears it's message on it's sleeve while a character screams it at you. It's just so all over the place that it's hard to know what it wound up saying at the end. Does nothing matter? Does ego matter? Does theater matter? Story? Art? Life? I walked out not knowing anything about the message it was trying to convey other than that everyone involved thinks they are very clever.

I was an undergrad Philosophy major and I've seen plenty of theater that touches on the same subject matter (it's effectively a been there done that play within a play that most theater of the absurd derivative stuff has been doing since the 80s off Broadway). This is to say I've been exposed to a lot of things that have managed to go where this movie tried to. It's so on the nose with it's symbolism and repetitive beats that any attempt to be clever comes off as sophomoric.

It just did nothing interesting to me at all, and it's entire message was a giant convoluted mess of "nothing matters". Except perhaps personal performance as long as it's an artistic endeavor and not schlock for the masses.

If you want to see a movie about a persons descent into madness over their inner drive to prove themselves than Black Swan is a substantially better movie. If you want to see a movie about growing old and losing touch with your youth then see Lost in Translation. If you want something that questions the fabric of reality and living in bad faith than Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead is better. Or any good theater of the absurd from the last 70 years. Exit the King, No Exit (not properly theater of the absurd), Waiting for Godot, really anything by Becket. Or you could just cut straight to the source and read the Stranger or Being and Nothingness.

This is the sort of distilled down retread of much more interesting works.

The cinematography and the Sound-track are top notch, but it's not the first movie that made you feel as though you were in the lead characters head as they spiraled. It's a pretty clever parlor trick, but still just that.

Or you can watch Birdman which is basically every off broadway play that high school kids have been turning into Dramatic Interp performances for the last 15 years.

It's a movie that is convinced of it's own importance, but I've yet to find someone who can tell me what it was about the movie that was actually important.
 
It is what he meant. How would I know a film's themes prior to watching it myself?

I also never said the film didn't have a message.

Cass spelled out what I meant clearly. If I wanted to say you should get out, then I would have said you should get out. Don't be a fucking dick.

As for point about bad filmmaking. I don't see it. The movie conveyed its themes effectively. I got it. Plenty of others got it no problem.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Why is it important that it be important?

There is no inherent need that a movie "be important".

I enjoy Marvel superhero movies and bad comedies. I think Guardians of the Galaxy should have got a best picture nomination because it was really well made and entertaining. I don't think anyone involved in Birdman thought they were making mindless entertainment.

But Birdman certainly seemed like it wanted to make a point, but totally failed to do so. That acceptances speeches even bloviated on about ego and time and critics.

Someone involved was attempting to put forth a message of some sort, but I still can't figure out what it is.
 
That's the thing about Birdman, I never felt like it took itself as seriously as it's made out. It's really just a very snarky, very fun movie to me. That's why I am surprised it got Best Picture.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
That's the thing about Birdman, I never felt like it took itself as seriously as it's made out. It's really just a very snarky, very fun movie to me. That's why I am surprised it got Best Picture.

For the first 20-30 minutes I was with you.

I thought it was going to be a very funny, extremely self aware movie about aging actors trying to prove their self worth through artistic endeavors and realizing that it's all hogwash and we would all have a good laugh at them in the process.

But at some point the movie turned on a dime and stopped being that. Probably the over-the-top scene with him and his daughter screaming about whether or not the play was important. It wasn't played for laughs anymore and it started descending into a mess of a movie that totally lost me.

Was it trying to be a deep commentary on the meaningless of life and the futileness of such endeavors, or was it a self aware take-down of those kinds of plays? In the end I had to a settle on the former because the back half took itself far too seriously.
 

Spinluck

Member
It's funny watching people attack the believablity of the alcoholic stepfather or the kids' bullshit conversation about sex and drinking when others have said those felt ripped right out of their own lives. Ymmv, and all that.

It's almost like he turned out to be another mean drunk or something.

Also, they never showed us when Mason got his ears pierced. Plot hole!!

The writing in the movie wasn't perfect. And you can tell the probably had to cut a shit ton of stuff too.

But I am pretty sure I've had worse conversations about women and sex when I was a kid. Far worse actually. Maybe I need to watch again but I never thought the alcoholic step dad got in the way of the film either.

I think Boyhood was probably the 3rd or 4th best film out of the nominees, but I thought it got across what it set out to do. And it had me thinking about my upbringing right after i saw it. Thought it was a cool project and can't wait to see what Links does next. Anyway, I really don't get the hate.
 

lednerg

Member
...
But Birdman certainly seemed like it wanted to make a point, but totally failed to do so. That acceptances speeches even bloviated on about ego and time and critics.

Someone involved was attempting to put forth a message of some sort, but I still can't figure out what it is.

I can't say if it was the best picture since I haven't seen them all, but I definitely enjoyed it. It's what I'd consider a character study, and it accomplished that goal fantastically, imo.

EDIT: I'm with you on Guardians. That set a high bar for the genre which will be difficult to surpass.
 

Salsa

Member
because the back half took itself far too seriously.

you mean when he
shot off his nose and had a birdman bandage on

the movie certanly has something to say but I dont feel it ever got in the way of being mainly just satire.. of what, not sure, but I dont think it's a serious movie

I loved it
 
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