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[tebunker]

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First a note. Please bear with me as I am on a phone. If I was at home I would have a lot more links. I want to discuss what is happening overall with the gaming industry and not so much specific manufacturers or current rumors.

So I was catching up on podcasts and was listening to Chris Kohler and Matt Peckham discuss the then still heavily rumored PsK, now NEO.

Chris brought up several good points around the 48 minutish mark. Go listen its worth it.

In that with traditional console lifecylces, you effectively start from zero every time. That holds true for publishers, developers and consumers. It has it's plusses and minuses and many people like this model.

So because of that old model we were able ti have wild swings and paradigm shifts as user bases moved from system to system. It allowed Sony to take Nintendo's market leadership position, it out Sega out of the hardware model, it allow Microsoft to come in and Usurp Sony for a generation and then Sony has now returned the favor.

It was also this model that gave us the Wii and blue ocean and Nintendo clearly recognized the issues here and tried to go a different direction. It worked in the short term but they completely failed to keep those players in their ecosystem. There truly was no buy in there.

So now we have the Neo, and the Potential Xbox version as well, and even Nintendo has mentioned taking in a similar mentality. They have shown that they will do this with DSi and New 3ds to lesser degrees.

Console makers are going to try to move away from the old model to one that keeps you in their ecosystems and creates a sunk cost mentality.

In that you will be able to keep playing most if not all of your software with each iteration of hardware. Its not so much backwards compatibility as it is creating a software ecosystem that allows you access to all your games. Much like IOS or Android.

This can be seen with the bigger push for digital too. If you have a large digital library you will have that sunk cost freling and second thoughts before switching platforms.

This is going to be a big shift. It would theoretically be good for developers and publishers as there will be less disruption and restarting every four years or so. It could be horrible for gamers if platform holders aren't really being pushed to earn our business and give us legitimately good reasons to move out of their ecosystems. There are other potential pros and cons. Like being to have steam like access to your entire console library or having the simplicity of knowing your purchases will run on any one serirs of hardware.

Lastly, this all looks like a further push to me of software or gaming as a service. We already have that to a degree with EA Access and PSNow. Games with Gold and Ps+ are similar services too that offer a little more.

Things are changing, and I'd love to see more talk about that and not how many fps a new gpu will give or if a new console will have 450 teraflops or if a platform holder unlocked another core. Because while we are all busy arguing about what is ultimately nonsense the rest of the players are trying to change the rules of the game for better or worse.

 

[The Artisan]

there were a loooooot of gaffers saying they will switch straight to PC gaming if Ps4K is a thing at all, regardless of how much or little of an improvement it is on the original.

I'm on a similar boat, in that I'll give up gaming completely since I don't game on PC.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

This can be seen with the bigger push for digital too.

Good. Optical media is a bottleneck that just adds extra cost to a device and another point of failure. I for one cannot wait for it to die as we embrace the digital age.

 

[James Scott]

I'd be open to this, probably won't get a PS4k since I already own a PS4, but maybe a Xbox 1.1 since I don't have one yet and I'd be granted access to its library.
The timing needs to be right, releasing one too often would piss off players while waiting too long would cause it to never gain traction (New 3DS vs PS4k).
It would be better than having to be complacent with the poor performance of a console for 5-6 years, thought it will also likely mean devs won't try as hard to optimize the OG PS4 release.
I also don't think we will see nay major backlash until the next revision comes out in a few years with devs not supporting the first release

 

[Gabe3208]

Good. Optical media is a bottleneck that just adds extra cost to a device and another point of failure. I for one cannot wait for it to die as we embrace the digital age.

Do you really think that pricing will be affected with the use of digital media only in the future? I feel like we'll get those comments such as "Just because there isn't a disc, doesn't mean you will pay less."

Wasn't XBox pushing the whole "You're not paying for the disc, you're paying for the bits on the disc" argument a few years back? I feel like just because we go all digital, they'll still charge the same prices.

 

[Aztechnology]

there were a loooooot of gaffers saying they will switch straight to PC gaming if Ps4K is a thing at all, regardless of how much or little of an improvement it is on the original.

I'm on a similar boat, in that I'll give up gaming completely since I don't game on PC.

I just don't get this. You'd rather quit gaming than play on PC? Obviously it's not a very important hobby to you then. Especially seeing as you can literally turn a PC into a console experience with Steam Big Picture on startup.

 

[Auctopus]

Depending how the specs/price of PS4K, I'll be moving to PC when it happens.

I'm not having a tantrum, in all honesty I've been on the verge of building a PC for a few years and this will be what pushes me over as consoles lose their "buy it and you're set" mentality.

I'll keep my PS4 around for exclusives but I can see this setting the precedent for upgrades every 2-3 years or so.

 

[Possumowner]

I mainly game on PC already,but for me it would come down to finances.I'm not sure I could afford to purchase stuff for my PC upgrades as well as earlier console iterations. One would have to give,and it's not PC.

I would just end up sticking with PC and whatever Nintendo releases,no matter how much I enjoy my Ps4 and Xbox

 

[Liamc723]

Good. Optical media is a bottleneck that just adds extra cost to a device and another point of failure. I for one cannot wait for it to die as we embrace the digital age.

This line of thinking is barbaric to me.

Physical media is better than digital in literally every single way.

 

[The Artisan]

I just don't get this. You'd rather quit gaming than play on PC? Obviously it's not a very important hobby to you then. Especially seeing as you can literally turn a PC into a console experience with Steam Big Picture on startup.

If you don't get this, then I don't think it is in your place to judge.

 

[btags]

This line of thinking is barbaric to me.

Physical media is better than digital in literally every single way.

Not in every way: convenience, lack of the title being physically destroyed, etc. You can come up with things that makes physical better than digital, but digital certainly has its advantages.

 

[JasonUresti]

This line of thinking is barbaric to me.

Physical media is better than digital in literally every single way.

I dont have to bother storing game boxes or shuffling discs to play a different game. More plastic doesnt need to be manufactured for me to play a game, nor packed into crates and shipped on gas guzzling semis.

There, your statement is defeated.

 

[Mister Zimbu]

This line of thinking is barbaric to me.

Physical media is better than digital in literally every single way.

Definitely. Having to take 10 seconds to swap a disc is kind of annoying, but I greatly prefer that to having to wait overnight to play a game I just bought (and crippling my internet connection in the meantime), no used game market, prices that never go down, and having games removed from history at the whim of a publisher.

edit: every way is hyperbolic, but physical games still need to be a thing until there's better policies about how digital storefronts and games are maintained (in other words, never)

 

[DrROBschiz]

End of Moores law

I wouldnt be singing doom and gloom just yet

It will inevitably slow down until the next giant leap is made

 

[Alucrid]

If you don't get this, then I don't think it is in your place to judge.

yes, people don't get cutting off your nose to spite your face

 

[Valtýr]

This line of thinking is barbaric to me.

Physical media is better than digital in literally every single way.

Name them. I guarantee you it's not superior in every single way.

 

[The Artisan]

yes, people don't get cutting off your nose to spite your face

what the fuck?

 

[Liamc723]

Not in every way: convenience, lack of the title being physically destroyed, etc. You can come up with things that makes physical better than digital, but digital certainly has its advantages.

The only advantage it has is pre-load and the convenience of playing right away at launch. After that, there's zero advantages.

And with the current prices of digital games, I'd hardly call a pre-load an advantage at all.

 

[Dipper145]

I think it's about time that console gaming moves to a new lifecycle model. Its significantly better for all involved, especially the consumer. Very happy about this happening.

 

[Gouty]

IM GONNA GIVE UP ELECTRICITY IF TRU

 

[Barkley's Justice]

DOOM!

GLOOM!

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Do you really think that pricing will be affected with the use of digital media only in the future? I feel like we'll get those comments such as "Just because there isn't a disc, doesn't mean you will pay less."

Ideally they'd at the very least reallocate the cost to faster or higher capacity storage.

This line of thinking is barbaric to me.

Physical media is better than digital in literally every single way.

Better in literally every way besides slower reading and capped capacities, right?

 

[RK128]

I think it is a shame that gaming is going in this direction, but it has some good things linked to it.

Not starting from scratch can lead to OS systems, Online Networks and core engines for many developers being re-used for the future. This will allow smaller developers or developers who make their own engines just re-use stuff they made in the past when developing on newer hardware. It means less layoffs, less studios being shut down and a much easier transitional period for many studios.

But, it creates a major risk regarding the user base. If the PlayStation Neo (cool name XD) releases this fall/Early 2017 and many games target that mainly, the OG PS4 will suffer greatly and considering how many OWN the original PlayStation 4, could easily see Sony facing a Pre-E3 2013 Microsoft issue (where everyone hates them).

I think Sony will play this smart, ensuring that the OG PS4 sells like hot cakes still (as many will still get that over the new PS Neo) and will (hopefully) refuse to use PS Neo footage when showing off games.

Either way, not happy with this but still want to play Ratchet & Clank and Sonic 25th Anniversary, so will just get the OG PS4 system when its cheaper and see how everything plays out.

 

[Liamc723]

I dont have to bother storing game boxes or shuffling discs to play a different game. More plastic doesnt need to be manufactured for me to play a game, nor packed into crates and shipped on gas guzzling semis.

There, your statement is defeated.

Oh no, you don't have to spend 5 seconds picking up a game case and putting the disc into your machine.

That has always been the stupidest argument against physical media.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Good. Optical media is a bottleneck that just adds extra cost to a device and another point of failure. I for one cannot wait for it to die as we embrace the digital age.

Better get some better internet infrastructure then because when most of the population is still served on a sub-cable connection or has data caps, there is no digital future.

 

[Modest Mauser]

Consoles would lose a lot of appeal to me if we go that way.

I'm primarily a PC gamer, and I don't want to have to think about upgrading my console every few years to get the best experience in new games, when I already do that with my PC.

I know you don't HAVE to upgrade, but I don't play enough console games anymore to feel like I wouldn't be wasting cash to get a system that would be behind in performance by the time the next exclusive I want releases.

 

[Klart]

there were a loooooot of gaffers saying they will switch straight to PC gaming if Ps4K is a thing at all, regardless of how much or little of an improvement it is on the original.

I'm on a similar boat, in that I'll give up gaming completely since I don't game on PC.

That seems like an overreaction.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I'd just cut to the chase and call it the death of the traditional console.

Welcome to many of the negatives of PC gaming with few of the positives.

 

[Alucrid]

what the fuck?

what the fuck what? that's exactly what you would be doing

 

[JoeNut]

PS4K is NEO now?

 

[The Artisan]

That seems like an overreaction.

if it's a decision i make for myself why should it matter to you, how much console gaming matters to me?

what the fuck what? that's exactly what you would be doing

um no? i honestly don't know what the fuck you're trying to say. i'm not cutting half my face off because of this shift in the market.

 

[Aztechnology]

I dont have to bother storing game boxes or shuffling discs to play a different game. More plastic doesnt need to be manufactured for me to play a game, nor packed into crates and shipped on gas guzzling semis.

There, your statement is defeated.

Well to be fair the main issues are resale and Internet infrastructure. The latter being a huge issue for many still. Digital only is still a ways off. Although with patches nowadays being so large it only helps slightly for those... afflicted? Is that the right word to use for shitty Internet.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Better get some better internet infrastructure then because when most of the population is still served on a sub-cable connection or has data caps, there is no digital future.

I live out in the boonies in a town of a few thousand and still support an almost entirely digital catalog. They can sell cheap USBs or some nonsense for those who have crappy Internet if they must. There's no reason optical is the external media of choice. And regardless, most gaming is going to shift to the wireless space, if it hasn't already.

 

[Aztechnology]

I'd just cut to the chase and call it the death of the traditional console.

Welcome to many of the negatives of PC gaming with few of the positives.

Go on.

 

[Leafhopper]

I'd just cut to the chase and call it the death of the traditional console.

Welcome to many of the negatives of PC gaming with few of the positives.

I am not sure what you are even talking about.

 

[Alucrid]

if it's a decision i make for myself why should it matter to you, how much console gaming matters to me?um no? i honestly don't know what the fuck you're trying to say. i'm not cutting half my face off because of this shift in the market.

"Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression used to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem

.

 

[wapplew]

I hate that, mainly from forward compatible perspective, it will be the end of my console gaming.
We have mobile and PC on that model already, I don't need another gaming device follow that trend.
If console have to go that way in order to survive, I rather they just force backward compatible but not forward.

 

[georly]

if it's a decision i make for myself why should it matter to you, how much console gaming matters to me?um no? i honestly don't know what the fuck you're trying to say. i'm not cutting half my face off because of this shift in the market.

It's an idiom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face

"Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression used to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem: "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.[1]

You're punishing yourself for something sony is doing that you disagree with.

On topic:
I'm actually fine with console upgrades - especially if it cycles as 'minor > major' where major would typically be a new console altogether. It's a solution to a problem we're facing, and will take some adjusting. The enthusiasts and newcomers will buy the minor upgrades and anyone looking for the ability to play 'new' games would buy the major upgrades (assuming a major upgrade would take the place of a PS5 and you WOULD be allowed to make upgrade-exclusive games). This would, theoretically, solve some backwards compatibility problems, as the 'major' upgrades should theoretically be able to play old ps4 games without leaving the old architecture in the dust. Maybe nintendo's supplemental computing device is their way of doing the console upgrades? Who knows? As long as I can still play all the PS exclusive games on my old PS4, I don't care that much about ps4k. That said, I also game on PC, so maybe i'm not one to talk.

 

[Famassu]

This kind of pathetic lust for constantly upgraded electronics is a direction we should actively be avoiding with everything, if only for the important reason for us to screw up nature a little less. Screw performance & IQ crybabies. A 5-6+ year console cycle is perfectly fine. If something can't run well on a console, it's on the developers and not the hardware.

 

[hodgy100]

I'd just cut to the chase and call it the death of the traditional console.

Welcome to many of the negatives of PC gaming with few of the positives.

hypothetically it would work much more like ios and android than PC gaming.

 

[eFKac]

I wonder what will Xbox response be.

If they give me the confidence this year that they won't release an incremental upgrade to the Xbone but a regular successor, they'll have a new customer in their ecosystem.

I believe in you Phil Spencer!

Spoiler

You have me by the balls anyway cause otherwise it's PC gaming for me from now on!

 

[danmaku]

It would be a big paradigm shift for consoles. If this means backwards compatibility on all models, it would be great. I don't understand why people are already discussing DD vs physical media, it has nothing to do with hardware upgrades.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

It's absolutely hilarious seeing all the people say they'll give up gaming if this becomes a thing. Last I checked, didn't we play games because of the games, 'ya know, the software? As long as there are still fantastic games coming out I kind of don't give two shits about incremental hardware or whatever, as long as it benefits the games in the end.

Now, there are other aspects of an all-digital future that are worth raising some concern over, as well as some concerns over a games-as-service model, things I've mentioned several times in the past. But we haven't even gotten to that point yet and people who want to bail out just over incremental hardware,...well.....I'm glad they weren't gaming during the early/early-mid '90s.

That's all I have to say xD.

 

[The Artisan]

"Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression used to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem

if you call it an overreaction then fine, but i'd like to point out just a few things that i think you're overreacting on.

gaming is entertainment, you spend money to have it in your life. this is a decision i'm making for myself, because i'm primarily a console gamer and i'm on the dislike boat for this iterative shit news.

the person i was responding to was essentially saying it is nonsensical of me to give up gaming completely when i could just revert to PC gaming and that is a wrongful assumption because - I don't own a workable PC. my laptop is currently lost in limbo, and the one i am using is having issues of its own. i have the destiny Ps4 that i burned $450 on, and i am not suddenly going to invest in hundreds and potentially thousands of dollars on PC hardware just to get back into gaming.

now, none of this is stuff that you or the guy I originally responded to knew, but you both assumed without knowing anything, that I could just do it. aside from the monetary reason that i just explained to you, i'm also just not a PC gamer, i've been a console gamer since I was 7 years old and i never intended to change that. yes, i have tried PC gaming when I was a kid but i didn't enjoy it. i enjoyed gaming on console and i enjoyed that the hardware I invested in lasted me half a decade and was the entry and singular option throughout that time.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

um no? i honestly don't know what the fuck you're trying to say. i'm not cutting half my face off because of this shift in the market.

....It's a phrase. it's like shooting yourself in the foot, except in this phrase your shooting yourself in the foot in spite of your toes. I don't get what's so hard to understand.

Anyway I actually think this was bullshit for the consumer, since we had no idea the PS4 would only get 3 years at best before a superior machine is released by them. That's the bit I'm pissed about. I feel like I've been bait and switched, so I'll be PC only from now on.

 

[Alucrid]

if you call it an overreaction then fine, but i'd like to point out just a few things that i think you're overreacting on.

gaming is entertainment, you spend money to have it in your life. this is a decision i'm making for myself, because i'm primarily a console gamer and i'm on the dislike boat for this iterative shit news.

the person i was responding to was essentially saying it is nonsensical of me to give up gaming completely when i could just revert to PC gaming and that is a wrongful assumption because - I don't own a workable PC. my laptop is currently lost in limbo, and the one i am using is having issues of its own. i have the destiny Ps4 that i burned $450 on, and i am not suddenly going to invest in hundreds and potentially thousands of dollars on PC hardware just to get back into gaming.

now, none of this is stuff that you or the guy I originally responded to knew, but you both assumed without knowing anything, that I could just do it.

i don't care about whether or not you get a pc. what's stupid is that you're giving up gaming despite having a ps4 that will play all the current and future ps4 titles without you having to upgrade. but, out of some misguided principles, you decide that it's better for you to not play any games period. just dumb.

 

[The Artisan]

You're punishing yourself for something sony is doing that you disagree with.

well, i don't think "punishing" is the only word to describe, ceasing myself from spending money on video game stuff.

....It's a phrase. it's like shooting yourself in the foot, except in this phrase your shooting yourself in the foot in spite of your toes. I don't get what's so hard to understand.

i think we established this

 

[DrROBschiz]

People are losing their minds


This might be the nuttiest E3 ever

Nintendo might be in striking range with NX lol

 

[The Artisan]

i don't care about whether or not you get a pc.

then it's not entirely fair of you to state it is an overreaction.

what's stupid is that you're giving up gaming despite having a ps4 that will play all the current and future ps4 titles without you having to upgrade. but, out of some misguided principles, you decide that it's better for you to not play any games period. just dumb.

who the fuck are you to judge exactly? you're being borderline condescending now

 

[Aztechnology]

if you call it an overreaction then fine, but i'd like to point out just a few things that i think you're overreacting on.

gaming is entertainment, you spend money to have it in your life. this is a decision i'm making for myself, because i'm primarily a console gamer and i'm on the dislike boat for this iterative shit news.

the person i was responding to was essentially saying it is nonsensical of me to give up gaming completely when i could just revert to PC gaming and that is a wrongful assumption because - I don't own a workable PC. my laptop is currently lost in limbo, and the one i am using is having issues of its own. i have the destiny Ps4 that i burned $450 on, and i am not suddenly going to invest in hundreds and potentially thousands of dollars on PC hardware just to get back into gaming.

now, none of this is stuff that you or the guy I originally responded to knew, but you both assumed without knowing anything, that I could just do it. aside from the monetary reason that i just explained to you, i'm also just not a PC gamer, i've been a console gamer since I was 7 years old and i never intended to change that. yes, i have tried PC gaming when I was a kid but i didn't enjoy it. i enjoyed gaming on console and i enjoyed that the hardware I invested in lasted me half a decade and was the entry and singular option throughout that time.

Wow if you think it's takes potentially thousands of dollars to get a solid PC than you're completely misinformed. That's a stupid stupid myth perpetuated by people who don't understand and often don't care to understand the costs of PC gaming. You can literally build a sub $500 PC that's about 25-30% more powerful than a PS4. I had one up the other day I built as an example for $450.

No wonder you see PC gaming as the end of gaming for you. Someone has cleary created a boogie man of misinformation which your PC knowledge rests upon.

PC gaming can literally do everything console gaming can near the same level of simplicity if you like and more. It's a completely tuned experience and nothing close to what it was when you were a kid unless you're like 12.