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[FyreWulff]

the most serious of crimes where there is no doubt of guilt

this philosophically and legally does not exist in jury trials.

We convict people based on "beyond a reasonable doubt". Which means, legally, you can have doubts about something being guilty, but if society deems them as unreasonably reached, you can still technically consider someone guilty.

Furthermore, "no doubt" allows people to be railroaded and even assuming 100% someone was known to do it, the number of cases involved would be a rounding error. It's not worth executing 100 people just to get at the 1 person you want dead.

- Witnesses are easily tamped with. False memories are a thing, but also just straight up paying people off, or someone is making it up for revenge.

- Photos can be edited.

- Videos can be edited.

- The system still admits polygraph tests, which are a proven pretend phony science.

- Finally, just plain unjust laws.

 

[VistraNorrez]

The only reason to have a death penalty in our justice system is because it would deter crime. There is no evidence supporting this idea. It's been long overdue to get rid of the Death Penalty.

 

[Zaphrynn]

I feel if we want to even begin to consider ourselves a humane society, the death penalty has to go.

 

[nkarafo]

The only reason to have a death penalty in our justice system is because it would deter crime.

There's also revenge /closure for families victims.

I'm against death penalty but i never had a close one murdered so i don't know how it feels.

There were a few terrible animal abuse/torture videos that made me so angry, i would want those people dead. Slowly. But i know that's just emotion over logic.

 

[B_Spooky13]

Good.. If there is a chance of one innocent person being put to death (which there already has) then that type of punishment shouldn't be in place

 

[VistraNorrez]

There's also revenge /closure for families victims.

I'm against death penalty but i never had a close one murdered so i don't know how it feels.

There were a few terrible animal abuse/torture videos that made me so angry, i would want those people dead. Slowly. But i know that's just emotion over logic.

Revenge should not be the point of a Justice system. It's a terrible precedent for the government to set. The victims should have no direct say about the fate of the perpetrator. They are not exactly in the right state of mind. I'm not saying you shouldn't take them into consideration, but there's a reason we try to have impartial juries.

 

[Tall4Life]

I expect that before 2020, there will be at least one of the following:

- A Supreme Court ruling by 6-3 or 5-3 (depending on whether or not Scalia's seat is filled) (Fifth or Sixth vote would be Kennedy) that the death penalty violates the 8th amendment (possibly also with a 5-4 ruling that it also violates the 14th amendment due to racial bias).

- A Supreme Court ruling by the same breakdown (6-3 or 5-3 depending on whether Scalia's seat is filled) stating that solitary confinement violates the 8th amendment. (Very confident in this one because Kennedy has already spoken out against solitary confinement).



Plus studies have found that the Death Penalty doesn't actually reduce violent crime.

I dont think they'll ever rule that the death penalty violates the 8th amendment. They've set precedent that a punishment must be BOTH cruel and unusual to violate it. The death penalty is cruel, but it is in no way unusual.

 

[Goro Majima]

I'd be fine with keeping the death penalty available for only exceptionally heinous crimes. Like making it only available through an executive order or congressional act or something.

Mostly thinking about a domestic terrorist killing hundreds of people.

 

[Pamplemousse]

I'm surpised a majority of Americans have come around. Maybe once Hillary adds a new justice, the SC can strike it down for good.

 

[SeanC]

It's on the ballot here in Cali this November to get rid of it. I certainly voted for that, I feel the death penalty is a relic of a bygone era.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Even many families of murder victims oppose the death penalty, upon realizing revenge doesn't actually equalize the taking of life. The US is a bloody-minded "eye for an eye" society but even it is coming around to recognizing the moral paradox of holding life sacred, except for people we just don't like very much.

Personally, I've always though life imprisonment is a scarier deterrent than death. Death is easy, living is hard. Eventually, in a hypothetical future where mass incarceration is over and prison itself is genuinely a rehabilitation center rather than a revenge-minded cage for punishment, I think a small minority of people serving life sentences for truly awful crimes would be more instructive for society than executing them.

Once you execute them, they and their crimes either become forgotten or they become mythology, legends. But sitting in a detention center, like Charles Manson, a lot of their mystique is removed. They just become kind of sad and pitiful. It acts as a reminder that there is no glory waiting for people who perform outrageous acts of harm. And the people who perform them aren't even worth killing, in turn.

 

[aeolist]

I dont think they'll ever rule that the death penalty violates the 8th amendment. They've set precedent that a punishment must be BOTH cruel and unusual to violate it. The death penalty is cruel, but it is in no way unusual.

the point of the editorial in the OP and the articles/studies it links is that the death penalty is quickly becoming unusual except in a very small number of counties. as the rate of executions decreases by definition it is more unusual.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

Excluding the pragmatical reasons to not have the death penalty, such as deterrance, wrongful convictions and higher cost, I've always felt that this scene says it all.

 

[Kill3r7]

I expect that before 2020, there will be at least one of the following:

- A Supreme Court ruling by 6-3 or 5-3 (depending on whether or not Scalia's seat is filled) (Fifth or Sixth vote would be Kennedy) that the death penalty violates the 8th amendment (possibly also with a 5-4 ruling that it also violates the 14th amendment due to racial bias).

- A Supreme Court ruling by the same breakdown (6-3 or 5-3 depending on whether Scalia's seat is filled) stating that solitary confinement violates the 8th amendment. (Very confident in this one because Kennedy has already spoken out against solitary confinement).

Agreed on the death penalty not so much on solitary confinement considering SCOTUS declined to address the issue in June of this year. The decision not to test the constitutionality of the death penalty after Justice Breyer's dissent in Glossip can only be interpreted as the NAACP is waiting for a liberal court.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

This is good. We should be above this barbaric act.

Yup. Once SCOTUS is flipped, the death penalty's days are numbered. The liberal minority on the court has made it very clear where they fall on this issue.

That would be so great.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

The justice system is not perfect, so why have a permanent punishment. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[Sony]

In a perfect world where the law was applied even-handed with irrefutable evidence against all convicted and the penalty was administered in a truly painless fashion, I might be swayed in extreme cases of particularly brutal or mass slayings.

Since none of those things are even close to true, I can't support it in good conscience. The criminal justice system is too broken, the penalty applied too unevenly, the drug cocktails too experimental for it to be seen as anything other than a sloppy extermination revenge squad for undesirables.

I see, I was just curious ^^

 

[False Witness]

That's slavery.

Totally constitutional though...

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Don't you love the future where we're all imprisoned and forced to work for mere pennies an hour.

 

[Felix Lighter]

In the future, students will be shocked to find out the United States used the death penalty this long.

 

[Ogodei]

The only cause for the death penalty in my eyes would be someone uncontrollable whose very continued existence would create a problem, like if we had captured bin Laden alive and that doing so had resulted in an endless wave of terror attacks against the city or town where he was being held. Most of the scenarios i can think of come from fantasy, though, whether supervillains or extraordinary psychos like Hannibal Lector. Otherwise what purpose does it serve? It doesn't work as a deterrent and is rife with possibility of error.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Don't worry, even with Americans abandoning this cultural tradition, us South East Asian countries will carry the torch of killing convicted criminals as deterrent for terrible crimes such as drug possession!

I remember passing through Malaysia once, and whereas at our American airports, we'd get the ol', "Watch your luggage at all times, as someone could put a bomb in it," over there it was, "Watch your luggage at all times because if someone puts drugs in it, we'll kill you." Scary as fuck.

 

[Illucio]

Michigan abandoned it in 1846.

Makes me feel proud to be a Michigander for once.

This is pure Michigan.

 

[LifEndz]

The number of times we get it wrong and kill an innocent person is startling. Glad to see it's going away.

 

[TestOfTide]

I dont think they'll ever rule that the death penalty violates the 8th amendment. They've set precedent that a punishment must be BOTH cruel and unusual to violate it. The death penalty is cruel, but it is in no way unusual.

First off I am curious to know what ruling determined that a punishment has to be both cruel AND unusual to be unconstitutional?

Second, the Death Penalty obviously wasn't unusual back in the day, but these days we have a general consensus among law experts that the point of a punishment is to both deter crime and rehabilitate the perpetrator, which the death penalty and solitary confinement do neither. The death penalty serves no purpose other than a feeding a desire for vengeance, which makes it unusual compared to things like jail time and fines.

I'd be fine with keeping the death penalty available for only exceptionally heinous crimes. Like making it only available through an executive order or congressional act or something.

Mostly thinking about a domestic terrorist killing hundreds of people.

Usually, if a country only leaves the Death Penalty intact for a very particular kind of crime, it is set to only be used as a punishment for Treason.

 

[kmax]

The death penalty is a barbaric practice that will soon disappear. It's inevitable as we progress forward.

Good riddance.

 

[Tonedeff]

Good. I have never been a proponent of killing unarmed individuals in custody. Especially as its been used towards minorities. Fucking disgusting practice

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Totally constitutional though...

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Don't you love the future where we're all imprisoned and forced to work for mere pennies an hour.

Nixon, Hoover and Regan were well aware. It's not a coincidence that the war on drugs became the new way to keep people of color in check.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

It should be gone. The justice system is way too biased against minorities and the poor. Adding the death penalty on top of that is just gross.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Don't worry, even with Americans abandoning this cultural tradition, us South East Asian countries will carry the torch of killing convicted criminals as deterrent for terrible crimes such as drug possession!

Whatchutlkainabout. Death penalty doesn't exist in the Philippines ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It should be gone. The justice system is way too biased against minorities and the poor. Adding the death penalty on top of that is just gross.

It's been gross since slavery ended. Transitioned smoothly into chain gang slavery. The names being used have changed but the reasons remain the same.

 

[cryptosporidium]

Im still surprised anyone in the states has it still. With your appeal system and what not it just costs so much money to kill someone legally. Im not even against the death penalty but I can be pragmatic and say its arbitrary to have it in north america.

 

[Netherscourge]

This will probably get me lots of hateful replies but...

I can't be against the Death Penalty.

It's my one non-Liberal stance.

It always comes down to: If my wife/sister/mother/daughter/friend was raped and murdered, what would I want the punishment to be?

-If there is zero doubt of the guilt of the accused, I want DEATH for the criminal. Every single time.

No rehab. No prison time.

Just deleted from existence.

 

[norm9]

I'd rather have the worst of the worst felons cleaning up the highways and digging ditches instead of sitting in death row spending tax money on appeals and whatnot.

Then again, I've never been the victim or known anyone killed by someone on death row.

 

[studyguy]

Voted to abolish in CA.

The CA ballot is particularly shitty though, there are two bills for it.

One that abolishes it completely.
One that speeds up ruling on death row inmates.

 

[Hellwarden]

Good. The death penalty has no place in modern society.

The CA ballot is particularly shitty though, there are two bills for it.

One that abolishes it completely.
One that speeds up ruling on death row inmates.

That's some fucking dark comedy right there.

 

[linkandzelda]

This will probably get me lots of hateful replies but...

I can't be against the Death Penalty.

It's my one non-Liberal stance.

It always comes down to: If my wife/sister/mother/daughter/friend was raped and murdered, what would I want the punishment to be?

-If there is zero doubt of the guilt of the accused, I want DEATH for the criminal. Every single time.

No rehab. No prison time.

Just deleted from existence.

There can never be no doubt.

I agree, if my Sister were murdered I would want the person who did it to be dead. Preferably I would like to kill them myself. However that is wrong. Humans are not rational. They are bad at deciding what the moral thing to do is, especially when strong emotions are involved. There are reasons that those victim to a crime do not get to decide the perpetrator's punishment.

 

[LostCaress]

This will probably get me lots of hateful replies but...

I can't be against the Death Penalty.

It's my one non-Liberal stance.

It always comes down to: If my wife/sister/mother/daughter/friend was raped and murdered, what would I want the punishment to be?

-If there is zero doubt of the guilt of the accused, I want DEATH for the criminal. Every single time.

No rehab. No prison time.

Just deleted from existence.

There's either reasonable doubt or not reasonable doubt. If there's doubt they're set free.

 

[Aztechnology]

What is the cost of keeping an inmate who's been convicted of a heinous crime with a sentence of life without parole. Or 50 years etc. Do they produce more than they consume? I think extended prison sentence to rehabilitation and a life of penance through working to improve the country is punishment enough...

So it's basically slavery or death. Fuck me. Probably better to die.

 

[FO-totality]

The Death Penalty is on the ballot this November here in Nebraska after our unicameral legislature narrowly voted to abolish it, but the rural senators from bumfuck nowhere and Gov. Lex Luthor threw a fucking hissyfit referendum drive and got it blocked and on the ballot, despite some challenges to the Nebraska Supreme Court because the ballot campaign didn't disclose the governor as a donor.

It's probably gonna stay, sadly, but I'm gonna try to vote that shit out of existence. Fuck you, Ricketts, you ineffective rich kid governor. Fuck you, McCoy, you illiterate turd farmer.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

I would prefer they brought it back in the UK. But only for the most extreme criminals and where there's zero chance of a false conviction.

Like the Ripper, they should have just offed him years ago instead of it costing the tax payer £200K a year to keep him in the puzzle factory.

 

[nkarafo]

This will probably get me lots of hateful replies but...

I can't be against the Death Penalty.

It's my one non-Liberal stance.

It always comes down to: If my wife/sister/mother/daughter/friend was raped and murdered, what would I want the punishment to be?

-If there is zero doubt of the guilt of the accused, I want DEATH for the criminal. Every single time.

No rehab. No prison time.

Just deleted from existence.

I would want him dead too if it was my sister. But it shouldn't be about what i would want.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

The only cause for the death penalty in my eyes would be someone uncontrollable whose very continued existence would create a problem, like if we had captured bin Laden alive and that doing so had resulted in an endless wave of terror attacks against the city or town where he was being held. Most of the scenarios i can think of come from fantasy, though, whether supervillains or extraordinary psychos like Hannibal Lector. Otherwise what purpose does it serve? It doesn't work as a deterrent and is rife with possibility of error.

No CIA-operative would suggest executing someone like OBL. Even if it means constant terror threats.

 

[linkandzelda]

There's either reasonable doubt or not reasonable doubt. If there's doubt they're set free.

There is always unreasonable doubt. It's unlikely that unreasonable doubts mean the defendant is truly not guilty but it is entirely possible.

Additionally "reasonable doubt" is decided by a group of 12 emotional, irrational humans. Just because they decide that there isn't any reasonable doubt, doesn't mean they are correct in that assessment.

I believe 4% of people put to death in the United States are known to be probably innocent.

 

[Fudgepuppy]

This will probably get me lots of hateful replies but...

I can't be against the Death Penalty.

It's my one non-Liberal stance.

It always comes down to: If my wife/sister/mother/daughter/friend was raped and murdered, what would I want the punishment to be?

-If there is zero doubt of the guilt of the accused, I want DEATH for the criminal. Every single time.

No rehab. No prison time.

Just deleted from existence.

Because society has to be better than the individual.

Why should my tax go to your lust for revenge? How does society benefit from killing someone, versus putting them away in prison, with rehabilitation if possible?

 

[Saganator]

Never understood all the republicans for the death penalty. They preach how they want a small and limited government, but are okay with giving the state the power to kill citizens.

 

[linkandzelda]

I would prefer they brought it back in the UK. But only for the most extreme criminals and where there's zero chance of a false conviction.

Like the Ripper, they should have just offed him years ago instead of it costing the tax payer £200K a year to keep him in the puzzle factory.

Can people stop saying that. There is never zero chance of false conviction.

If the death penalty ever gets brought back here, that'll be the last straw for me. I'll be done with this country. I can see it happening though, we seem to be regressing.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Can people stop saying that. There is never zero chance of false conviction.

If the death penalty ever gets brought back here, that'll be the last straw for me. I'll be done with this country. I can see it happening though, we seem to be regressing.

Of course there is. Sutcliffe might not be the best example TBH. But take them two shit houses who butchered Lee Rigby in broad daylight in front of many witnesses and cameras.

I don't like the death penalty either, but I could accept it for certain cases.

Or ideally we change the whole prison system and have them all grafting their bollocks off 24/7, doing something to contribute to the earth in some way. Instead of just giving them cushy cells and leaving them to it, at great cost to the tax payer.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Good.

 

[PJV3]

I would prefer they brought it back in the UK. But only for the most extreme criminals and where there's zero chance of a false conviction.

Like the Ripper, they should have just offed him years ago instead of it costing the tax payer £200K a year to keep him in the puzzle factory.

Don't bring money in to it, it's either the right thing to do or it isn't. Saving a few quid is hardly a great moral lesson for society about the value of human life.

 

[djplaeskool]

Georgia has executed 7 people this year so far, the most people executed by the state in one calendar year in its history...