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The Downgrade Thread

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
What original GPU? You mean the Cell-based one?
There was no Cell based GPU - there was however a Toshiba project designing the PS3 gpu before NVidia got involved (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps3-cell-made-sonys-first-party-what-they-are-today.1636357/) there's some commentary on what might have been in this thread.

Was it? If I recall only the escape from the Tanker sequence was cut. It was also running at a lower resolution than the retail game.
Tons of stuff - higher-fidelity realtime lighting & shadowing systems, bigger NPC crowds, substantially more complex AI interactions (and more physics interactivity) etc. It's not entirely dissimilar from MGS4 example. The resolution was always the same too - the only thing that changed in retail game was upgrading the scan-out buffer to full height (so when frames are dropped, you don't drop res) but rendering was already @ full frame.

If it was only a concept trailer, similar to a CG trailer, they wouldn't have showcased the demo in real-time at TGS and talk about how they were planning on making it look much better still:
I gave very concrete examples of exactly that. Both Division and Watch Dogs were little more than concepts when first shown - that entire 'city block' they demo-ed was little more than a thinly disguised corridor of near-field detail + clever camera work to make it 'look' like going around a city, and the gameplay - while 'playable' was almost entirely canned. That's what 'vertical-slice' demos most commonly do - you concept out blocks of what you want your game to look & feel like - you don't actually build all the layers out in cut-down fashion (that'd cost orders of magnitude more to do and would never be on time).
And doing it in realtime has certain benefits - not the least being confirming it's at least somewhat plausible to run on target (that is - assuming that your target isn't completely made-up, something all these 3 examples had in common).

The other time Kojima showed tech early in development was the Fox Engine and it looked pretty much on par with what we saw in MGSV:
Indeed - this is already well into 'hw iterations became familiar' territory, they knew really well by then what they were doing on PS3 and what was realistic.
 

Denton

Member
Looking at that 2013 Witcher 3 Novigrad screenshot... the density of people is crazy (like to unpractical levels), and vegetation is denser, but I really am not a fan of that extremely oversharpened, overcolorgraded look.

The-Witcher-3-no1.jpg


I do prefer how the actual game looks, overall, more pleasant to the eye.

292030_20230212211017c1iul.png
 

OCASM

Banned
There was no Cell based GPU - there was however a Toshiba project designing the PS3 gpu before NVidia got involved (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps3-cell-made-sonys-first-party-what-they-are-today.1636357/) there's some commentary on what might have been in this thread.
Apparently it was all Cell prior to the Toshiba GPU but neither approach worked out in the end:


Tons of stuff - higher-fidelity realtime lighting & shadowing systems, bigger NPC crowds, substantially more complex AI interactions (and more physics interactivity) etc. It's not entirely dissimilar from MGS4 example. The resolution was always the same too - the only thing that changed in retail game was upgrading the scan-out buffer to full height (so when frames are dropped, you don't drop res) but rendering was already @ full frame.
Mhh, looking at the first E3 trailer compared to the retail game pretty much everything is there. The lighting, the projected shadows, the big crowd watching the projector screen, etc... Also, according to DF that trailer was field rendered:


I gave very concrete examples of exactly that. Both Division and Watch Dogs were little more than concepts when first shown - that entire 'city block' they demo-ed was little more than a thinly disguised corridor of near-field detail + clever camera work to make it 'look' like going around a city, and the gameplay - while 'playable' was almost entirely canned. That's what 'vertical-slice' demos most commonly do - you concept out blocks of what you want your game to look & feel like - you don't actually build all the layers out in cut-down fashion (that'd cost orders of magnitude more to do and would never be on time).
And doing it in realtime has certain benefits - not the least being confirming it's at least somewhat plausible to run on target (that is - assuming that your target isn't completely made-up, something all these 3 examples had in common).


Indeed - this is already well into 'hw iterations became familiar' territory, they knew really well by then what they were doing on PS3 and what was realistic.

Well that's the thing, isn't it? The target Sony sold to Kojima was a generation ahead of what they were actually going to deliver. The case of Ubisoft games is different because even when the platform targets are well defined and understood they still produce complete bullshit.
 

OCASM

Banned
Final Fantasy XV.

Besides the obvious, the destruction of its original story and lore, environmental lighting, shading and vfx took a massive hit due to switching from baked lighting to a fully real-time system:

Reveal:


Retail:
 
Forspoken is the king of all downgrades. And I say this as someone who has been hyped for it for than anything else since the June 2020 reveal.






Luminous engine is trash. I really hope SE redoes it in UE5 or any different modern engine.
 
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Arioco

Member


Was this downgrade ever explained?
Yes, they blamed it on the consoles. LOL they said they had expected them be more powerful.

They wouldn't explain if they were planning on making a game that could only run on high end PCs or why the game went through not one but TWO downgrades, the first one in 2013 and the second one in 2014, when consoles had even launched and we already knew everything about them. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

stranno

Member
Looking at that 2013 Witcher 3 Novigrad screenshot... the density of people is crazy (like to unpractical levels), and vegetation is denser, but I really am not a fan of that extremely oversharpened, overcolorgraded look.

The-Witcher-3-no1.jpg


I do prefer how the actual game looks, overall, more pleasant to the eye.
TGS trailer was screaming "yeah, not happening" since the beginning.

BPb4xSB.gif
 
next to no chance of happening, but it'd be so fun if sony released a ps3 pro and invited (funded) studios to re-do their ps3 games to match or exceed the reveal trailers.
 

GymWolf

Member
Forspoken is the king of all downgrades. And I say this as someone who has been hyped for it for than anything else since the June 2020 reveal.






Luminous engine is trash. I really hope SE redoes it in UE5 or any different modern engine.

Forspoken doesn't even come close to kz2\motorstorm level of fakery.
 

peronmls

Member
Metal Gear Rising was my huge Frowngrade Disappointment

Turned it from something interesting with cool physics
into an ASD bayonetta nightmare



to



:messenger_frowning_

Raiden and Grey Fox never fought like what was shown for MGS:R at E3 anyway. They are much faster than that. and 8:09 is closer to MGR:R than MGS:R Maybe you miss the CQC mechanic? Raiden isn't really stealthy either once he became a cyborg.
 

OCASM

Banned
Halo 2 teaser:



Halo 2 retail:



That was quite the fall in quality.

EDIT: Comparison between the E3 2003 gameplay demo and the final game:

 
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Paltheos

Member
Allot of graphical examples here.

First thing I thought of is the different disc verisons of Metroid Prime. The North American 00 version has the most tech for speedrunning and sequence breaking and every subsequent disc printed cut allot of those abilities out. Not really any different from patches today really, but I still look at 02 discs as just worse versions of the game.
 
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