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[itxaka]

Ahh, thanks for the explanation guys, it makes sense.

I guess I overlooked it as I was really impressed by the exploration part, that I dismissed anything else in favor of it. I moved fromt he gamecube to the 360 directly without a decent PC so the exploration part was the most incredible part for me

I'm a sucker for exploring, put too many hours on both Oblivion and Fallout just exploring everything.

 

[Kurtofan]

Mass Effect and ESV?

looks like noone will see me again in the outside world

There's another world outside?
This game will probably be my first ES so it better be good!

 

[Yo Gotti]

Great news, loved Morrowind & Oblivion.

PLEASE no level scaling.

It takes the thrill out of exploration, as every dungeon presents the EXACT same challenge. There are no dungeons in Oblivion that are truly dangerous. It also kills the thrill of finding newer, better weapons & spells, because for the longest time, the shitty sword you have now is fine.

Then towards the middle half of the game you find yourself ridiculously overpowered for any place outside of Oblivion.

Level scaling isn't game-killingly terrible, but it does suck some of the life, and believability out of the world.

 

[feel]

Fast travel, as it is implemented in Oblivion and Fallout 3/NV, needs to be done away with. There are serious repercussions to the design of the game world when it's present. Trivial fetch quests send you 100 miles because the designers know you only need to traverse the game world once and afterwards it's all instant.

Allow you to fast travel between hub locations, sure. Between hundreds of random points in the wilderness, no thanks.

Perfect post. I don't care if fast travel itself is in, I just never use it, but I really hate how this crap ruins the design of the minor quests.

 

[Somnid]

I still don't understand what was the problem with level scaling of enemies?

I mean, that made exploration possible, instead of being like wow where you enter a zone and the enemies are 10 levels higher so you have to run away from it and come back when you are on the proper level.

Anyone care to explain please? I only played oblivion so no idea how it was before, but if it was like wow then it was "wrong" for me as I prefer exploration. (Yes, I know I need to play morrowind, it's on my backlog)

Also, I hope is more like the expansion than the main game. The main game was awesome but the expansion was pretty fucking awesome and crazy :lol

Because it didn't make sense. Some areas should be off-limits until you are stronger because it gives you something to work toward. The other problem is that because of this they added loot scaling. In Morrowind treasures were placed by hand and some secret areas could have very powerful items (usually guarded by powerful enemies). It was very rewarding to find high level things like daedric weapons and armor because it was rare (in fact there was usually only one of each piece). In Oblivion thieves at a certain level have glass and ebony gear which not only doesn't make sense (this implies they are super rich) but it severely impacted the reward of getting it because it was common. The player in a game like this should feel they have a relative strength in the world and they get stronger as they play, all enemies shouldn't be come high-level daedra in response. In Morrowind when you saw the crocodiles you ran.

 

[Pre]

Best Christmas present ever, Bethesda.

All I want out of this is no scaling and good animations.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Does anyone know what's the music from the trailer? is it an original track for the game? It was great.

 

[Sabotage]

OOOOH YEAH!

http://twitter.com/bethblog

 

[pro_gamer666]

I still have Oblivion to finish. Hopefully this one will address the problems in Oblivion.

 

[webrunner]

Level scaling done bad means that levels are, at best, meaningless, and at worse, a detriment. You end up wanting to have the best stuff you can have for your level, and if you level suddenly you're less powerful by comparison since everything else levels up too.

For example, lets say that every monster is scaled to an average character of level X.

If you min-max, you will ALWAYS be more powerful then everything int he world.

If you are not that good, you will ALWAYS be underlevelled for everything with no way of catching back up.

Basically, levelling has no purpose if everything else levels with you, as levels are essentially a way of measuring your power compared to an enemy's. If that number is always equal, what's the point?

In some cases, like Obsidian and FF8, it's actually beneficial to never level up ever, and instead try to raise your power in other means, so that everything stays weak and you become a god.

Some games (eg, Dragon Age) use a system where when you first see a monster, it will be level-scaled to you, or level scaled above you. But that monster doesn't respawn if you leave- if you find it too strong, and you come back later stronger, it will now be weaker than you because it didn't magically level up as well. Some monsters in Dragon Age also had set levels (like the High Dragon) that you had to work up to as well.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Does anyone know what's the music from the trailer? is it an original track for the game? It was great.

The bit towards the end is similar to the main theme from Oblivion.

 

[chaostrophy]

I still don't understand what was the problem with level scaling of enemies?

I mean, that made exploration possible, instead of being like wow where you enter a zone and the enemies are 10 levels higher so you have to run away from it and come back when you are on the proper level.

Anyone care to explain please? I only played oblivion so no idea how it was before, but if it was like wow then it was "wrong" for me as I prefer exploration. (Yes, I know I need to play morrowind, it's on my backlog)

Also, I hope is more like the expansion than the main game. The main game was awesome but the expansion was pretty fucking awesome and crazy :lol

The great thing about an open-world game is if one area is obviously too tough for the moment, there are lots of others to explore. The areas you can't get to have a sense of mystery about them, that makes them more exciting to finally explore later, and give you motivation to toughen up your character.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Even some of the most trivia Oblivion quests would be embarrassingly tedious without fast travel.

Take buying a house in Anvil. Let's say you start in the Imperial city. You have to travel for 10 minutes to get to Anvil. Talk to the guy, buy the house, sleep in house, slay ghosts. But now you have to trek back to Imperial city to find the guy, and trek all the way back to Anvil with him following you, and go from there.

A quest that takes around 10 minutes with fast travel turns into an hour or more without it.

TESV will have to be designed without quests like that, if it wants to not seem tedious on a "hardcore" mode.

Well, there are other solutions as well for this. Lets say there is some sort of a caravan in each of the bigger cities and you can either fast travel or normally travel with them between the cities. Think that would be great.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

i am officially supporting the notion of a hardcore mode. i'd love for all the useless loot to be opposite of that. it would also be nice for us to be able to experience it in whichever way we have the time and patience for. i still have a backlog, so if it were released tomorrow i would probably do normal mode first, get through it quickly (lol), and then try hardcore mode later.

 

[disappeared]

The great thing about an open-world game is if one area is obviously too tough for the moment, there are lots of others to explore. The areas you can't get to have a sense of mystery about them, that makes them more exciting to finally explore later, and give you motivation to toughen up your character.

It's basically a form of catering to more casual players who want everything right there and then. There's no risk versus reward. It's just, "alright, you can pretty much kill anything wherever you go."

i am officially supporting the notion of a hardcore mode. i'd love for all the useless loot to be opposite of that. it would also be nice for us to be able to experience it in whichever way we have the time and patience for. i still have a backlog, so if it were released tomorrow i would probably do normal mode first, get through it quickly (lol), and then try hardcore mode later.

There won't need to be a hardcore mode if enemy levels and quest design are done in a more traditional style - i.e. you can get your shit fucked up if you go to "those" mountains at a low enough level.

 

[golem]

You can mod in a seamless no-loading world with mods on PC.

really?! link plz

 

[EmSeta]

Fast travel, as it is implemented in Oblivion and Fallout 3/NV, needs to be done away with. There are serious repercussions to the design of the game world when it's present. Trivial fetch quests send you 100 miles because the designers know you only need to traverse the game world once and afterwards it's all instant.

Allow you to fast travel between hub locations, sure. Between hundreds of random points in the wilderness, no thanks.

Yes! This is the most important factor for me. I really hope they rework it.

 

[Mr Cola]

Yes! This is the most important factor for me. I really hope they rework it.

Pretty much, im fine with fast travel in theory but in practice it stops designers from creating the type of open world areas that morrowind has, the feeling of stumbling upon a cave that has nothing to do with any quest, or a temple or ruin, that was the best feeling.

 

[disappeared]

Pretty much, im fine with fast travel in theory but in practice it stops designers from creating the type of open world areas that morrowind has, the feeling of stumbling upon a cave that has nothing to do with any quest, or a temple or ruin, that was the best feeling.

I want to say that Bethesda has perhaps rectified that problem, as seen in Fallout 3. There were more than a few hidden areas (some not even on the map) that gave that sense of discovery. Following the radio tower signals in particular was cool as hell.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

It's basically a form of catering to more casual players who want everything right there and then. There's no risk versus reward. It's just, "alright, you can pretty much kill anything wherever you go."

i always thought that was just the unfortunate byproduct of developers trying to come up with a new way of "always keeping it challenging" by having enemies always be a few levels tougher than you.

There won't need to be a hardcore mode if enemy levels and quest design are done in a more traditional style - i.e. you can get your shit fucked up if you go to "those" mountains at a low enough level.

right, and i'm still for that, but as far as hardcore mode is concerned i guess im referring to the comments other people made about separating fast travel being enabled as well as there being decisions you have to just stick to, like vampirism. also having to drink water or pay attention to other stats. you know, the kind of thing that would annoy and obstruct the casual player. i'm sure some will say "fuck the casual player" but i just disagree. some things should be consistent for both modes of the game but i still think there should be choice.

 

[Jokergrin]

How did Fallout 3 handle level scaling.

I don't recall noticing it was all messed up like Oblivion.

 

[Fitz]

really?! link plz

Open Cities. The only loading screens left will be for indoor/outdoor transitions, but they take under a second anyway.

 

[chaostrophy]

It's basically a form of catering to more casual players who want everything right there and then. There's no risk versus reward. It's just, "alright, you can pretty much kill anything wherever you go."

Yeah, I mean I thought it was awesome when Shadow of the Colossus allowed the player to explore the entire game world from the beginning if they wanted instead of putting tacky artificial barriers up. But SoTC is an adventure game...the TES series is an RPG, where a big part of the draw is building your character how you want, and coming up with ideas on how to overcome obstacles that keep you from exploring the whole world.

 

[Wallach]

How did Fallout 3 handle level scaling.

I don't recall noticing it was all messed up like Oblivion.

Zones had a set minimum and maximum level range they could scale to, and once you visited an area that zone was locked to the level when you first arrived.

 

[Jokergrin]

Zones had a set minimum and maximum level range they could scale to, and once you visited an area that zone was locked to the level when you first arrived.

Ok, problem solved.

 

[EviLore]

Ok, problem solved.

Yeah, no.

 

[disappeared]

So regarding the setting/climate of Skyrim, it will be interesting to see how they handle snow. I can picture blizzards and low levels of visibility climbing mountains. Forests will be thick with snow hanging off branches. So much potential.

 

[fredrancour]

Ok, problem solved.

people have two complaints about level scaling though. they want areas to be afraid of that are impassable at first unless you are ultra-careful so that the world has a sense of progression, and they want to be able to go back to earlier areas and feel like a vengeful deity once at a high level. this is great for the vengeful-deity bit but has the exact same problem for the early-game side (which is definitely the bigger problem, though I still loved oblivion)

 

[Xater]

New engine after all? FUCK YES! That's probably the real exciting thing here. That this game is coming was out of question.

 

[Unregistered007]

I have a feeling that it might delayed to 12.12.2012

 

[Kaako]

New engine? O thank heavens.

 

[Timber]

I imagine Skyrim to take a page from the strides made by F3 w/r/t scaling, so I'm relatively unconcerned about that.

As for fast travel, that shit ain't going anywhere, or at least I hope it isn't because getting around in Morrowind was a pain. Can't begin to count the amount of times I walked from Balmora to to one of those southwest seaside towns and boated my way across the map to get to some location up north, or having to walk inland from Sadrith Mora time and again. Much prefer a single painless click than repeat the tedious walk fast travel walk fast travel walk fast travel sequence for every measly quest.

 

[GhaleonEB]

There's no problem with scaling that can't be solved by removing it and designing the game world accordingly.

 

[disappeared]

I have a feeling that it might delayed to 12.12.2012

You just walk out of the store, game in hand, when suddenly the sky turns black and a voice as loud as the cosmos booms, TWENTY-TWELVE BITCHES I TOLD YOU I WAS COMING.

"Well, shit, but I wanted to play Skyrim."

...

"FAIR ENOUGH! I'LL STOP BY TOMORROW."

 

[BlueTsunami]

Risen definitely made a strong case against level scaling. Loved exploring the island and scoping areas I couldn't touch yet. Seeing and fighting one of those gorilla like stone beasts for the first time was frightening.

 

[Metalic Sand]

I just want to be able to super jump across the world.

Fast travel ruins the game. Who actually used a horse in oblivon? :lol

 

[ant_]

SO excited

 

[disappeared]

I just want to be able to super jump across the world.

Fast travel ruins the game. Who actually used a horse in oblivon? :lol

I did on several occasions. Most of the horses were slow and the framerate stuttered like crazy. They were useful for kiting groups of mountain lions straight into Imperial Guards.

 

[scoobs]

DRAGON BORN! Lol christ that trailer pumped me up

 

[FunkyPajamas]

I did on several occasions. Most of the horses were slow and the framerate stuttered like crazy.

 

[disappeared]

He never stops looking at you!

 

[Evolved1]

Bethesda, please hire some animators.

Please make combat not suck.

Please ask your artists to create some female characters that does cause an instant gag reflex.

And no level/loot scaling, you fuckwits.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Bethesda, please hire some animators.

I'd really like to see some mo-cap work incorporated. Bungie finally moved away from all keyframe and the difference was enormous.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

correct me if im mistaken, but in Oblivion is the scaling set to where if you enter an area at a low level, let's say a cave with goblins, and then later come back at a higher level, there won't be goblins at all, but some "higher difficulty" enemy type, such as skeletons or bandits....??

i hope they don't do that in Skyrim. thinking of my latest game of Oblivion i don't remember the last time i encountered any goblins. and yes, i randomly revisit the super early dungeons/caves.

on an unrelated note, i hope stealth and bow-sniping works the same this time around, but without all the bugs and the "WTF alerted them to me?" shenanigans. it needs to be more obvious as to what caused them to detect you, as well as getting rid of all the bugs like when they detect you from other rooms and you have the battle music constantly playing and can't gauge if you are being loud or sneaky or what. i blame gamebryo.

 

[Nocebo]

Yes please have loot and stuff make sense. When I finally crack a 9999 level lock on a chest I don't want to be greeted by someone's old gym sock inside.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

correct me if im mistaken, but in Oblivion is the scaling set to where if you enter an area at a low level, let's say a cave with goblins, and then later come back at a higher level, there won't be goblins at all, but some "higher difficulty" enemy type, such as skeletons or bandits....??

Yes, and every random Joe gets pimped out with a full set of mythical and mighty Daedric Armor :lol.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

He never stops looking at you!

When looking at this gif I always get the feeling the guard's going to come back up with a dirty sanchez from the horse.

 

[eso76]

I still don't understand what was the problem with level scaling of enemies?

Exploration should be possible in theory, but you should fear venturing in some areas.
It's like one natural deterrent to prevent you from seeing everything right from the start without placing visible or invisible walls around you.
At the same time, you could just take a huge risk and be rewarded with rare or very powerful items if you succeeded.
Having monsters and items level up according to your level makes the whole levelling pointless. You get better, all monsters do too. Yay.

In Oblivion (which i still loved) this reached nonsensical heights when you hit a certain level (14 ? 16 ? can't remember) and every creature in the world was replaced with a much stronger monster and the game suddenly got stupidly hard.

oh, yes, also reaching level 999999 only to see every bum and homeless guy is now sporting a magic daedric armour was just stupid.

 

[subversus]

I played only OOO-modded version of Oblivion. I remember being annihilated by some fire-spitting flying prick near the first town right I after I walked out of sewers. I don't know though if it was Oscuro's fine tuning or the dude was already present in vanilla.

 

[Nirolak]

I played only OOO-modded version of Oblivion. I remember being annihilated by some fire-spitting flying prick near the first town right I after I walked out of sewers. I don't know though if it was Oscuro's fine tuning or the dude was already present in vanilla.

Oblivion completely scaled, so fighting a mudcrab at level 1 was pretty much the same as fighting a mudcrab at level 50.

If you fought something that could actually beat you like that, it must have been OOO.