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The Evolution of Tomb Raider | 1996 - 2015
- Thread starter MadClacker
- Start date
MadClacker
Member
I could lick your face. You're literally me. Well said, and well explained. The reboot had the occasional flash of inspired design, but for the most part just played it very safe. Control and level design is something I think a lot about, and there was certainly a LOT to be said about the consistency of the controls in the early games, as well as the genius level design that didn't undermine the players intelligence and actually encouraged he or she to explore and find things out for themselves without the need for a quest arrow, help button, or map. You were left entirely to your own devices. Short of a life bar that only appeared when your guns were drawn and perhaps an ammo count, you had no HUD distractions, no one talking in your ear, and in some cases - no music. Just your footsteps. It was eerie and really sold you on the idea of being alone. For being so primitive, visually, they delivered an exceptional atmosphere that was only made better by the players fear of the unknown. It was magical, and to this day I still get great enjoyment out of it.
The reboot series is far better narratively, but as I mentioned earlier - I don't need to see how Lara become a badass. To me, she's been a badass since 1996. Because of the reasons I listed above, Lara was more like an avatar for the player themselves. Completely in control.
depths20XX
Member
I liked how the first Tomb Raider actually had a very mysterious feel to it, like you were in a place you shouldn't be.
In the new ones it looks like you just murder a bunch of people?
In the new ones it looks like you just murder a bunch of people?
MadClacker
Member
The reboot has some modern platforming and light puzzle solving, but the platforming is very assisted and the game comes complete with a button that literally shows you what to do if you ever get stuck. The game certainly leans very heavily towards the action side and murdering lots of people, yes.
Can't speak for RISE OF THE TOMB RAIDER obviously, but realistically speaking, I doubt Crystal Dynamics will stray TOO far from their previous game. I do think it'll be a more balanced experience though.
I think the best example of the differences in design philosophies is the T-Rex encounter in Lost Valley. In the original TR you enter this wide open area and get attack by some raptors. Then suddenly the ground starts shaking and this huge T-Rex comes around the corner. It's just there. No cutscene. No boss battle. It's in the level. You can deal with it as you want.
What happens when CD decides to remake it? The raptor encounter is a cutscene with awful QTEs. The T-Rex is introduced in this cutscene and it chases Lara to a friggin boss arena where you are forced to fight it in a heavily scripted QTE fest. It just sucks everything that made the original encounter so amazing right out of it. They tried to make it "look cooler" without understanding what was so cool about it and made it less cool. CD has a preoccupation with things looking cool. They're basically "Look. Don't touch."
It's ironic considering the rest of Anniversary is pretty much CD's best TR game since they tried to replicate Core's game to a good degree.
People often comment on how well-made the reboot is (ie no major glitches and stuff) but the issue I bring up in response is that game never really gives you an opportunity to break it. It's easier to make a game "perfect" when you don't let players go off the rails and make things so scripted that you have to try to fail. It's a real testament to how well-made the original games were that they gave you so much freedom.
Daffy Duck
Member
Wow that music is the greatest, and then the rest of the original score is closely behind, so much iconic music.
Those original games were the best.
Those original games were the best.
MadClacker
Member
This is the example I thought about posting earlier, but figured it was already long enough, ha!
The T-Rex encounter so perfectly encapsulates everything that was right about the original, and also highlights just how badly it was executed in ANNIVERSARY. Something about it just appearing, as you said, makes it far more memorable than some scripted QTE sequence. The Lost Valley in the original was dark, the colours so high in contrast and just looked surreal. In "ANNIVERSARY", the game technically looked a lot better, but looked far more fake in comparison somehow. Crystal Dynamics spend a lot on making their games look good, you're right, and as such; don't want you to miss anything. Unfortunately it's a modern design philosophy that carries across just about the entire medium.
I will say though that for the most part, ANNIVERSARY's level design is easily the best Crystal Dynamics has put out there. It's faithful enough to have the player remember and recall key events, but how they altered various areas and in created new ones was just brilliant. It's a shame the controls for the HD era were so slippery and inconsistent.
Maintenance
Member
I miss Old Lara.
NullPointer
Member
Nice video. Makes me miss exploring in those games.
I'll be waiting here if the series ever returns to its roots.
I'll be waiting here if the series ever returns to its roots.
MadClacker
Member
I miss Old Lara.
Reminds me of that funny picture that showed this scene with the modern TR aesthetic. (+10 exp, QTE arrows, "optional tomb nearby", etc)
Wish I could find that...
Neuromancer
Member
My problem with the new games is shooting hundreds of dudes is just not what I want to be doing in a Tomb Raider game.I never understood the argument about Laura being a killer in the new games. Since her inception, she's done a whole lot of killing! You can just do it stealthily now.
TR3 was meh, TR5 was bad, but don't you dare to say that TR4 was "garbage". The game was great, it oozed atmosphere, had huge levels and a lot of great platforming.
I never understood the argument about Laura being a killer in the new games. Since her inception, she's done a whole lot of killing! You can just do it stealthily now.
In her first game she only kills 5 humans.
The body count really picked up in TR2, but the major difference is they didn't pussyfoot around. Lara was just a stone-cold killer. People have issue with the reboot because the game tries to explain how she became a killer while trying to act like she's not a killer and increased the body count even more.
The other issue is that even in games like TR2 and TR3 with high body counts, killing was a small part of the game, whereas with the reboot killing pretty much is the game.
TR3 is a real mixed bag. It has some bad levels like High Security Complex, Area 51, Thames Wharf, and Lud's Gate. But levels like... pretty much all of India, South Pacific Islands, Antarctica, and Aldwych may be some of my favorite levels in the franchise. The save crystal thing was a really awful idea, though.
Shadow Hog
Member
Does Natla not count? I mean, granted, she's not exactly human...
I see! I can buy that for a dollar. You can see throughout the video that she does kill a lot of monsters, animals as well. Different times though. These days, violence really does sell.
MadClacker
Member
I never understood the argument about Laura being a killer in the new games. Since her inception, she's done a whole lot of killing! You can just do it stealthily now.
The reason people make a big deal about it is because the game was pitched as Lara (not Laura) being this regular ordinary lady who is thrown into a situation in which she must quickly learn to survive.
We have a sequence early on where we have to hunt and kill a deer running through the forest. It's a well done scene and Lara is clearly upset about doing so. Not long after, she's forced to kill a human being. Again, it's a very well done scene and Lara is distraught. It's a good development on the 'survival' concept.
Then seconds later we're mowing down guys with absolutely no remorse or moral qualms. It makes the whole point of her being a survivor superfluous when you're suddenly killing people with no consequence. Never again do we hunt animals. You CAN, but there's no reason to. The character of Lara Croft in the TOMB RAIDER reboot is completely contradictory to what we were originally marketed. It starts off well, but after that initial kill, she barely makes reference to killing humans until when she visibly becomes stronger and more empowered after picking up the grenade launcher near the end. Again, good scene - but all impact is lost when you've spent the last however hours doing virtually the same thing.
She's not a 'survivor'. She's a murderer. Just as Lara was in the original. The difference is, the original wasn't an origins story. It didn't focus too much on Lara as a character. She was more like an avatar for the player, experiencing things as it happened. She was a strong female lead from the beginning, willing to do whatever to survive and didn't give a second thought about putting a bullet between the eyes of anything that stood in her way, from humans to friggin dinosaurs. THAT'S what made her great. Not her bloody polygon count (or lack thereof)
I felt Crystal Dynamics really missed the point of an origin story after the first hour of gameplay. I've always found it funny how people praise the reboot as an example of a strong female lead in gaming, forgetting that she always was. Ever since 1996.
On a more related note: thank you so much for all the kind words regarding my video. I'm glad you enjoyed it!
It gets even better in Anniversary, where she only kills Larson (and then mourn him). Pierre is killed by centaurs, while Kold & Kid end up killing each other.
I never understood the argument about Laura being a killer in the new games. Since her inception, she's done a whole lot of killing! You can just do it stealthily now.
I think the main difference is how those kills are performed and presented. In the original series Lara is an adult experienced treasure-seeking traveler. If she needs to, she just shoot people that threaten her or compete with her.
In the reboot she's shown as a "helpless" teenage (young adult?) girl that doesn't shy away from murdering people by sticking a pickup axe in their head, slice their throat or blast their faces with a shotgun.
Plus, old games were more arcade-y in this regard, whether the new ones tries to portray Lara realistically, give her more realistic look, more emotions etc.
NullPointer
Member
That video is a little too black and white, but it still makes the basic point. For my tastes though I'd be fine if Lara never killed a thing, whether human or animal or demigod. Combat has always been the weakest part of the series, so quintupling down on it in the new series is disappointing.
But I'll give the new games this - they are gorgeous and nicely animated. But both Underworld and Legend had their beautiful spots too.
All the memorable parts in the series for me come down to the large multi-part puzzles, and the moments where you'd have a Eureka moment and realize the logic underlying the environment. I hope that one day we get something designed along those lines, even if as a side project or smaller title. I don't think they'll be successful trying to blend it into the new combat and spectacle focused entries. Its two different audiences imho.
"I'm sorry, I only play for sport." - that single line from TR1 (and Anniversary) intro, and Lara's smile when Natla finishes describing where she wants Lara to go ("Peru. Vast mountain ranges to cover. Sheer walls of ice, rocky crag, savage winds."), tell you all you need to know about Lara's character.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I recently picked up Anniversary, and while I honestly enjoyed the newest Tomb Raider it blew my mind just how much better of a game Anniversary was, sure it wasn't flashy or visually impressive or even had a riveting story. But the jumps, getting around, the puzzles, the boss fights, the enemies were all SOOOOO much more engaging. Enemies felt like a real threat because if they did hit you it truncated your health bar, on top of that the jump puzzles typically had secrets associated with them and alternate routes that didn't take you the "correct" way but still rewarded you with a relic or medkit for trying.
The environment was also legitimately threatening, the constant "don't fuck up" jumps, the amount of enemies, and the swimming sections always left you with a feeling of "here goes nothing", which is exactly what these games should convey without the character having to monologue her feelings to the player.
In the reboot we can assume she's in her mid to late 20s as she's clearly been through at least grad school.
The environment was also legitimately threatening, the constant "don't fuck up" jumps, the amount of enemies, and the swimming sections always left you with a feeling of "here goes nothing", which is exactly what these games should convey without the character having to monologue her feelings to the player.
In the reboot we can assume she's in her mid to late 20s as she's clearly been through at least grad school.
She was 21 during the Yamatai fiasco.
It's like if Team Ico addressed complaints about the awful combat in Ico by making a reboot of the game that got rid of all of the platforming and puzzle solving and focused entirely on fighting monsters. Instead they made a game that pretty much got rid of combat and turned the monsters themselves into puzzles.
I think the first part of the TR reboot that really drove home what kind of game it was was the part after you climb the radio tower. A plane crashes and chases you down a hill and you land in this really cool area called Cliffside Village. It looks really cool and it just makes your head swim with all of the platforming and puzzle possibilities. You make your first jump from one building to the next and... everything starts collapsing. From there you just run straight forward and press jump occasionally with no real challenge, destroying the entire area, and then you leave never to come back.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
I got nostalgia chills from the PS1 portion of the video. Nicely done.
Tomb Raider: Legend was the beginning of the end for me. Anniversary was fun, though.
Tomb Raider: Legend was the beginning of the end for me. Anniversary was fun, though.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I still remember the first jump you make in the reboot and you easily reached the middle part of the platform, with no effort at all.
It was soul crushing.
CadetMahoney
Member
Game is probably a meta commentary on someone who has just gone full psychosis.
NullPointer
Member
Yeah, and imagine the opposite in TR's case. Drop all the weapons, but keep most of the hazards. Did you clumsily wake up a bear you shouldn't have when you missed that last jump? Better use those platforming skills to GTFO and save your ass.
Now that would be harrowing, but the modern AAA take on that is to give Lara a wheel full of weapons and unlockable improvements/attachments, and ultimately decide the encounter with some form of QTE.
MadClacker
Member
Glad I managed to give you the chills. I got a few goosebumps myself as you see her just running down the cave with that string instrument kicking in. Nostalgic as hell.
Anniversary was definitely fun. The only thing that let it down were the slippery controls and annoying camera that plagued the other games in the HD era. The movement in these games (and in the reboot series to some extent) are just so unnatural. Complete analog movement is a good idea in theory, but when you have a platformer that requires some rather precise movements, you need to it be consistent. A free camera doesn't help matters. It's just something else you have to contend with. Because of the analog movement, various assistive measures had to be placed in the games, otherwise you'd be dying all the time. This took out a lot of challenge and gave the whole thing a very unnatural feel. I wasn't as immersed because I was too busy dicking with the camera or getting frustrated with Lara doing things I didn't want her to do because the controls thought it knew better than me. Besides that, it was good.
What really made me sad was how the concept of Yamatai was squandered. You got this lost island in an asian version of the bermuda triangle full of shipwrecks and ruins from various civilizations and they hardly use the concept. It's all shanty and WW2 ruins. The few times you get to engage with ancient Japanese stuff it falls apart/explodes/catches on fire.
Imagine a game where Lara is on a mysterious island full of ruins from various cultures from all across history and the world. That would be amazing. They made this game a reboot so it could have been Atlantis (set in the Atlantic or Mediterranean) or Mu (set in the Pacific) and filled with ruins bearing Egyptian, Greek, WW2 etc designs.
MadClacker
Member
That would have been a great concept. I felt THE LAST REVELATION was probably the best at nailing down a theme and expanding upon it. It really felt like you were exploring ancient Egyptian tombs and discovering new things all the time. For being one location, there was quite a bit of variety.
I remember jokingly sharing an idea a while back whereby Lara discovers she discovers she's related to the Royal family in some way, discovers she's like 100th in line for the throne or something crazy and ends up traveling parts of the world that the British empire once ruled and discovers dark secrets, truths, and unravels mysteries relating to the Monarchy. I joked then, but it doesn't sound TOO farfetched. It's at least more original than most ideas in video games these days, ha! Of course, that would likely be deemed too offensive by today's standards. But imagine a plot involving William the Conqueror, or something as interesting and vast as the Templars or something.
Still, a game that was less scripted with it's platforming and action seems more like a pipedream in today's flashy explosions and cinematic set piece world of gaming.
Tomb Raider. From being about raiding tombs to... optionally deciding to raid tombs, between murder sprees.
I like the reboot well enough, but... yeah, the magic of the originals isn't there anymore. It's still fun, but it's different.
It technically started before the reboot though. I remember the original game, with the T-Rex. Whoa, what a moment. Intense. Skill-driven. Atmospheric. When the remake came out, they turned the battle into a QTE scene and totally missed the point.
To me, that was the first sign that the series was heading down a totally different direction than the one I fell in love with.
I like the reboot well enough, but... yeah, the magic of the originals isn't there anymore. It's still fun, but it's different.
It technically started before the reboot though. I remember the original game, with the T-Rex. Whoa, what a moment. Intense. Skill-driven. Atmospheric. When the remake came out, they turned the battle into a QTE scene and totally missed the point.
To me, that was the first sign that the series was heading down a totally different direction than the one I fell in love with.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That would have been great, but I feel that certainly TR is quite a beautiful game, but it lacks that feel of adventuring as discovering, I agree, but is alo in part due to the lack of the feeling of achivement.
You barely spent times in most scenarios, games like TR, Uncharted and most AAA games these days, keeps the player progressing with minimal effort, they keep you constanly on a machine of adrenaline or with something happening on screen. Is hard to feel the sense of wonder at a new place, like in the old TR, when the game keeps throwing things at you and telling you to "keep forward, and shoot things". You barely spent a few minutes in a few caves called Tombs.
When you reached a new place in old TR it feel great, because it was hard to reach that place, you had to earn it and you where free to explore and try to discover it's secrets at your leisure.
sublimit
Banned
Some times i wish this game flopped just in case SE finally re-evaluated the series current direction and reexamined whether Crystal Dynamics is the most suitable developer to continue making these games.
However i know it will not flop because 1) it will have a tremendous marketing push from both MS and SE and 2) because (and perhaps most importantly) the majority of the reviewers have a really fucked up idea of what is it that makes a game "Tomb Raider" with most of them (if not all of them) not being actual fans that know and understand what Tomb Raider is about. Reading Tomb Raider reviews for many years now (even from supposed knowledgable and critical publications such as EDGE) has made me realize that their knowledge of the series ins and outs don't go much further beyond Lara's character.Which for them (and to an extend Crystal as well) is the most important element of the games.
As sad as it is, for reviewers and Crystal Dynamics itself, Tomb Raider means nothing more than navigating a picturesque "romantic" environment (which is more like a big-budget movie set that has all its safety nets carefully hidden in order to give the tourist a "genuine" experience),an environment where the player-tourist will face fake and superficial environmental "dangers" that will never really put him in any seriously challenging situations since everything will be so heavily scripted, it means lots of cheap jump scares every couple of minutes because a player-tourist needs his constant thrills otherwise he will loose his attention and get bored,and of course it means the much needed waves of enemies (along with the very important XP and perks) that are so crucial to the Tomb Raider formula.
Yes you can also use stealth in combat so now instead of actually spending your time solving brain-dead puzzles and platforming (with Lara "the human magnet") you can now instead spend your time avoiding hundreds of enemies.That sounds so much fun.That sounds so Tomb Raider.
However i know it will not flop because 1) it will have a tremendous marketing push from both MS and SE and 2) because (and perhaps most importantly) the majority of the reviewers have a really fucked up idea of what is it that makes a game "Tomb Raider" with most of them (if not all of them) not being actual fans that know and understand what Tomb Raider is about. Reading Tomb Raider reviews for many years now (even from supposed knowledgable and critical publications such as EDGE) has made me realize that their knowledge of the series ins and outs don't go much further beyond Lara's character.Which for them (and to an extend Crystal as well) is the most important element of the games.
As sad as it is, for reviewers and Crystal Dynamics itself, Tomb Raider means nothing more than navigating a picturesque "romantic" environment (which is more like a big-budget movie set that has all its safety nets carefully hidden in order to give the tourist a "genuine" experience),an environment where the player-tourist will face fake and superficial environmental "dangers" that will never really put him in any seriously challenging situations since everything will be so heavily scripted, it means lots of cheap jump scares every couple of minutes because a player-tourist needs his constant thrills otherwise he will loose his attention and get bored,and of course it means the much needed waves of enemies (along with the very important XP and perks) that are so crucial to the Tomb Raider formula.
Yes you can also use stealth in combat so now instead of actually spending your time solving brain-dead puzzles and platforming (with Lara "the human magnet") you can now instead spend your time avoiding hundreds of enemies.That sounds so much fun.That sounds so Tomb Raider.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Obligatory.
I should buy that for something; my original copy got stolen during a house party and I haven't played it in like 16 years.
MadClacker
Member
Thanks for linking to that article. REALLY mirrors my feelings on the perfect pacing and way the game teaches new obstacles to the player.
You should DEFINITELY pick this game up on PC or something. I find the PC keyboard controls a rather smooth transition, given the digital "block" nature of the movement. Playing in 1080p (with a 4:3 ratio of course!) the game looks very sharp and is very playable so long as you're aware of the 'rules' of the game.
All footage in my video was from the PC versions of the games, with the exception of ROTTR (obviously)
Beautiful video.
Tomb Raider 2 will always be my favorite of the entire franchise. I've loved every title in it's own way, and I never got tired of the Core approach. In the same way that the Crystal Dynamics transition happened with Legend, it's taken me awhile to warm up to the Reboot. But I've enjoyed it for what it Is, and I can't wait for the sequel.
The skillful platforming sections of the earlier titles made the series one of my favorites ever. Enemy encounters were always tense affairs, and level hopping with really creatively designed layouts made the game incredible. I think the peaceful Manor levels in the previous generation games were also some of my favorite bits.
I miss all the amazing outfits. I miss all the wonderful exploration!
Tomb Raider 2 will always be my favorite of the entire franchise. I've loved every title in it's own way, and I never got tired of the Core approach. In the same way that the Crystal Dynamics transition happened with Legend, it's taken me awhile to warm up to the Reboot. But I've enjoyed it for what it Is, and I can't wait for the sequel.
The skillful platforming sections of the earlier titles made the series one of my favorites ever. Enemy encounters were always tense affairs, and level hopping with really creatively designed layouts made the game incredible. I think the peaceful Manor levels in the previous generation games were also some of my favorite bits.
I miss all the amazing outfits. I miss all the wonderful exploration!
the_sun_king
Member
Fact: Tomb Raider II was the game that made me get a Playstation.
Thank you, Eidos and Core Design!
Great video. The old theme is really really lovely.
Thank you, Eidos and Core Design!
Great video. The old theme is really really lovely.
lukeskymac
Member
Please stop trying to use Uncharted to mask Crystal Dynamics' incompetence. What you're saying has no basis in reality.
Stallion Dan
Member
The shift from platform driven gameplay to cinematic driven gameplay is quite apparent and something I wanted to highlight. That, and to strike the 'nostalgia nerves' on people such as yourself. Glad you liked it!
Without having ROTTR in my hands (not that I have an Xbox One to play it on unfortunately) it's hard to know for sure just how different ROTTR is to TR'13, but with an entire trailer devoted to showing tombs is at least an indication they acknowledged the complaints from the first game.
That said, Uncharted features many 'tomb' settings, but it doesn't stop it from being a straight up shooter. This in itself isn't a bad thing, but Tomb Raider fans don't want Uncharted, they want Tomb Raider. I just hope the tombs aren't a case of 'hold up on the analog stick and watch Lara explore'
There is a vid out of an entire tomb. It barely qualifies as a puzzle, there is always only one place to go, with highlighted edges if need climb/jump on something, and if a path is blocked, there is one (glowing/highlighted) item nearby that will unlock it.
No thinking involved, and no platforming challenges (since it's all auto-platforming anyway).
The dev really does get what people liked about the old tombs, or maybe they do but aren't interested in selling to those people, so its all just PR fluff.
Also it took the guy like 6 minutes to complete it.
This perfectly sums up how I've felt about a lot of Tomb Raider reviews for years, such it makes them borderline cringe at times, even ones I generally agree with; what they seem to value in this series' case is so alien that to me it's like opening a review of an FPS and seeing it being reviewed as a platformer (and, in the worst cases, with dips into "actually it was always a platformer and if you take off your rose-tinted glasses you'd see that!"). Except in this case that reception resulted in the series itself being altered to fit it.
It's part of why I think the series can never break away from what it is now; it's basically tainted, and the clean slate of making something entirely new is the only way I feel an updated version of the original approach can be accepted again.
MadClacker
Member
Very well said. I'd love to see them return to a more platforming oriented direction for the series. However, this reboot series will likely not stray too far from the heavy action approach.
I think people are clamoring for something more puzzle and platform oriented. The response to TOMB RAIDER GO has been phenomenal and often cited as a more true to series' roots than the new games are, despite the vast difference in actual gameplay. I'd like to see something that isn't so automatic and flashy for the sake of being flashy. Let ME have control. Focus on gameplay more than narrative. The Souls game do this, they reach to a smaller audience and are able to turn out profits, why can't Tomb Raider?