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The falsity of religion & God(s) is so self evident, m'lady

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Ill always remember where i was when Freakzilla149 proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that god doesnt exist. I will tell my grandhildren of this and print out and frame the OP for significance. When its reprinted on the cover of every newspaper beneath the banner headline of FREAKZILLA149 ENDS RELIGION, NEW ERA OF PROSPERITY BEGINS, ill point to my framed prinout, gather my children close to me, and say "i was there, on neogaf, when it all happened".
 
I found OP's opinion on golf

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Kuraudo

Banned
I hear they're going nuts in the Vatican over this revelation. Current rumour is that the Pope's preparing to announce plans to turn all Catholic churches into bowling alleys.
 

Yagharek

Member
Sorry my Catholic school upbringing is showing, that's just an old habit. I almost capitalized those pronouns too.

Also, my implication with that statement is "I know that I don't know".

Fair enough. I'm not pedantic enough to insist on using exact terms, but in context of a discussion about what we can claim to know, I thought it salient to question in general the use of the terms like him or her etc.

Personally I don't believe in any god/s, I suspect that the universe is self-creating or emergent from natural laws. Physics has a lot to say about this in terms of quantum fluctuations, inflation theory etc.

But, *if* there is a god, I would bet with absolute confidence that whatever it is, it is nothing remotely like any of the constructs created in human religions.
 

Raonak

Banned
I always wondered why religions always make god seem conscious/human-like. It doesn't make much sense to me.

I always thought that if god did exist, it would be the laws of physics that govern our universe.
 

Monocle

Member
A person's upbringing and culture and scientific literacy make a hell of a difference. It's pretty easy to grow up thinking "This is how the world works and that's just the way it is." There are all sorts of ways to avoid critical thinking and an evidence-based worldview.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
I always wondered why religions always make god seem conscious/human-like. It doesn't make much sense to me.

I always thought that if god did exist, it would be the laws of physics that govern our universe.

Makes human-like gods more relatable. Which helps since you're suppose to love/admire them and all.
 

MrChom

Member
Atheism is getting more and more popular each year, so don't expect the trend to change.

Religion will never be eliminated, neither will atheism.

Society (e.g. laws, regulations, etc.) should function without either (except in the definition of health standards for food labelling, a right to worship/not worship, and appropriate holidays).

After that we should probably all just learn to get along.




This being said....really, OP, REALLY. Ya gotta go there with that. Put down the trilby, kick back, and grab yourself a mug of not giving a shit about these things.
 

Africanus

Member
I seriously believe we can criticize the Original Poster's rhetoric/argument without stooping to "neckbeard" "Fedora" or any of that drivel.
 

Yagharek

Member
I seriously believe we can criticize the Original Poster's rhetoric/argument without stooping to "neckbeard" "Fedora" or any of that drivel.

"Fedora" as an argument is basically a shit-post way to shut down any discussion. People who use the term as a dismissive way to avoid debate are being intellectually lazy.
 

kiguel182

Member
Discussing the existence of God is such a waste of time.

Religious folks have no proof he exists so the best they can say is present their believes as facts or say "You can't proof he isn't there" which also doesn't proof anything. On the other hand you can't proof he doesn't exist so you also can't make that argument.

As an atheist it's just no worth it having this conversation. I don't believe in god and I have no problem saying it but there's no point in actually going further than that.
 

Yagharek

Member
It seems appropriate considering how dismissive and intellectually lazy the OP is :p

Its not really appropriate because it always shows up in the same way. It's basically as cogent as "lol, tl'dr".

The point of discussion, if not to change someone's opinion, is at least to try and convince them that your argument is not without merit.

No-one is going to convince the OP by stooping to an even lower level and saying "fedora".
 
Its not really appropriate because it always shows up in the same way. It's basically as cogent as "lol, tl'dr".

The point of discussion, if not to change someone's opinion, is at least to try and convince them that your argument is not without merit.

No-one is going to convince the OP by stooping to an even lower level and saying "fedora".

I'm actually inclined to agree. Just pointing out that I can see where people are coming from.
 

Chariot

Member
I don't think disproving god by saying that he just don't exist, or because you never met him is weak. The favorite way I saw was to point out the consistencies in the bible directly related to god. A good logical disproof of the christian god begins with "Ok, god exist as he is described in the bible." From there it's easy to pick contradictions in his traits and actions.

If a higher entity exist, it's probably not the christian god in my view.
 

squidyj

Member
I think that if God exists religion is still stupid. Because really? some vain insecure little shit needed some insignificant little nobodies on some random ass planet that lasted for less than the blink of an eye to write books about him and set up organisations of power in his name and kill unbelievers and not wear clothes made out of two fabrics and this is the same guy who created a consistent and working physical universe from quarks to nebulae including all life on the face of this planet?

You have to be fucking kidding me.
 

daniels

Member
Without humanity there would be no Religion that should be the end of any discussion about Religion or God.

There is NO religion in any other animal on this world none, zip, nada this says all you need to know about Religion.
No other animal ever besides humans believed in anything religion or god.
Religion would not exist without humans which means ANY AND ALL RELIGION EVER INVENTED was created by Humans it is really that simple and i agree with you op i also dont get it like at all.
 
Without humanity there would be no Religion that should be the end of any discussion about Religion or God.

There is NO religion in any other animal on this world none, zip, nada this says all you need to know about Religion.
No other animal ever besides humans believed in anything religion or god.
Religion would not exist without humans which means ANY AND ALL RELIGION EVER INVENTED was created by Humans it is really that simple and i agree with you op i also dont get it like at all.

How could you possibly know that there are no religious animals? Have you asked? :p
 

Africanus

Member
I think that if God exists religion is still stupid. Because really? some vain insecure little shit needed some insignificant little nobodies on some random ass planet that lasted for less than the blink of an eye to write books about him and set up organisations of power in his name and kill unbelievers and not wear clothes made out of two fabrics and this is the same guy who created a consistent and working physical universe from quarks to nebulae including all life on the face of this planet?

You have to be fucking kidding me.
While not in the exact same language, I have always questioned why an all-powerful God necessitates worship rather than nothing and watching his/her/its creation.
 

daninthemix

Member
While not in the exact same language, I have always questioned why an all-powerful God necessitates worship rather than nothing and watching his/her/its creation.

That was the original state of creation - God chilling in the garden of Eden with Adam. Then sin and the fall happened.
 
I agree with OP. Blows my mind everyday to see how people believe what is positively obviously ridiculously the most unbelievable thing to me.

But I've long given up on trying to convince anyone of it.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
I think that if God exists religion is still stupid. Because really? some vain insecure little shit needed some insignificant little nobodies on some random ass planet that lasted for less than the blink of an eye to write books about him and set up organisations of power in his name and kill unbelievers and not wear clothes made out of two fabrics and this is the same guy who created a consistent and working physical universe from quarks to nebulae including all life on the face of this planet?

You have to be fucking kidding me.

Well said , Tip fedora
 

Bagels

You got Moxie, kid!
A person's upbringing and culture and scientific literacy make a hell of a difference. It's pretty easy to grow up thinking "This is how the world works and that's just the way it is." There are all sorts of ways to avoid critical thinking and an evidence-based worldview.

Although scientists are less likely to believe in god than the general public in America,

In general, religiosity (measured, as I said, by aggregating items on church attendance, frequency of prayer, and perceived personal importance of God) is correlated negatively with science literacy.

But the effect is modest.


I had a friend in graduate school who was a conservative Christian and Young Earth Creationist. He got his PhD in genetics. And honestly? It bothered me way more than it did him. That Yale blog points to the Big Bang and Naturalistic Evolution as the two key areas where the more religious and less religious are going to disagree. I had another creationist friend in undergrad (the few hardcore creationists I went to school with are all super memorable). We'd argue almost every day before class about evolution but it basically never came up in class. We were both studying chemistry and there is a ton of work to be done there that makes zero reference to the age of the universe or evolution or on any other topic likely to provoke any kind of religious outcry. It's not like he would ever synthesize a molecule wrong and the professor would ask if he had believed in evolution during step 15. Even in biochemistry, one place where you think the topic might come up, the evolutionary processes that yielded the molecules and cycles and whatnot of interest were all pretty remote from what we were actually studying. There are obviously areas where you would be testing evolutionary hypotheses but you're talking about some highly specialized chemistry.

There is this assumption that being religious means you can't also be a scientist. Conversely, there is the assumption that declaring yourself an atheist means you'll cultivate a scientific mindset and have excellent critical thinking. But people don't live at the extremes of blind faith and mysticism and the cold light of pure rationality. People are frustrating in that we can mix the rational and irrational in weird ways. There are plenty of anti-vaccine atheists and there are people working on those vaccines who believe that god literally created the earth in 6 days, six thousand years ago. You'd think things would shake out a little more neatly but they just don't.

So here's my problem with the OP - for a whole lot of people, the existence or non-existence of god is equally obvious. One group sees the world and says, "Look at all this! Obviously there is a God." Another group goes, "Look at all this! Obviously there is no god." It's not like either of those positions represents a triumph of critical thinking. And the believers and nonbelievers can both say "I won't go over all of the arguments because this has all been cleared up long ago," which is just a nice way of saying "I am intellectually lazy but just trust me that I am better informed than you."

If you want to limit your case to the Christian God, you are talking about arguments encompassing history, archaeology, philosophy, textual analysis, language, biology, geology...just to take one example, the question of whether Jesus exists as a historical figure does not have an obvious answer. Is Jesus purely a fictional creation, rendering all questions about his divinity moot? If Jesus was an actual person, how much, if any, of the biblical account of his life is accurate? Those are interesting questions with interesting ramifications. If we have evidence that Jesus was a real dude who was born in Bethlehem, attracted followers, kicked it in Judea, and was actually crucified for what he was saying, it makes trying to figure out what we are told about his teaching more interesting, in the same way that the things that Winston Churchill said and did are more important than the things Harry Potter said and did. Only Churchill was an actual, for real wizard, and that's important. On the other hand, if Jesus was a real guy but the only bit that checks out is that he was a carpenter and the evidence points to him dying at 40 while making an end table, we might not care so much.

Unless the end tables were really really good.

I don't think we should choose the smug self satisfaction of proclaiming our views self evident (and I'm as up for some smug self satisfaction as anyone) over the much harder, but ultimately more satisfying, task of unpacking these topics and really digging in there.

In any case, I thought the line about Churchill being a wizard was funny.
 

Africanus

Member
That was the original state of creation - God chilling in the garden of Eden with Adam. Then sin and the fall happened.
I'm pretty sure he asked for worship then. But then again, why create a devil and good and evil fruit tree to necessitate worship is beyond me. It all seems roundabout if it's all-knowing.
 

daninthemix

Member
I'm pretty sure he asked for worship then. But then again, why create a devil and good and evil fruit tree to necessitate worship is beyond me. It all seems roundabout if it's all-knowing.

The devil, I believe, was simply a senior angel who chose to rebel against God. God gave humans and angels free will, and thus they can choose to be good/evil, to obey God or defy him. As to why? Others could answer better, but quite simply without free will love cannot exist.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
I'm pretty sure he asked for worship then. But then again, why create a devil and good and evil fruit tree to necessitate worship is beyond me. It all seems roundabout if it's all-knowing.

Adam and Eve really strikes me as something like the Pandora's Box story - just a simple (and fictional) way to explain all the bad stuff that happens in the world, besides explaining how the world got here.

The idea of the Christian god these days seems really warped from the story though. People who try to rationalize it anyway seem to lack basic plot comprehension. Those that don't say it's just a metaphor, which I still don't think makes much sense.
 

Sami+

Member
Eh, so long they're not hurting anybody people should just believe in what makes them feel peace. The whole point to religion philosophically is to comfort people over our lack of understanding of life and death after all.

I became an atheist when I realized Islam had felt like a chore to me for years. Didn't give me any comfort, so I dropped it.
 

Air

Banned
I find it fascinating how limited the idea of God is used here when we live in a world where pantheism, panentheism, etc. all exist and some even formalized (Spinoza and some other philosophers). It's also weird when you have scientists like Einstein and Sagan professing some belief in naturalistic pantheism.
 

Mecha

Member
Eh, so long they're not hurting anybody people should just believe in what makes them feel peace. The whole point to religion philosophically is to comfort people over our lack of understanding of life and death after all.

I became an atheist when I realized Islam had felt like a chore to me for years. Didn't give me any comfort, so I dropped it.

Yep, as long as someone isn't hurting themselves or someone else I don't see why we should care.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
Discussing the existence of God is such a waste of time.

Religious folks have no proof he exists so the best they can say is present their believes as facts or say "You can't proof he isn't there" which also doesn't proof anything. On the other hand you can't proof he doesn't exist so you also can't make that argument.

As an atheist it's just no worth it having this conversation. I don't believe in god and I have no problem saying it but there's no point in actually going further than that.

Doesn't the problem of evil disprove the Christian God? Seems pretty straightforward imo.
 
What else would you expect from a human bereft of Lord Prince Satan's love. OP shares not in his wisdom nor in his community, thus he is left blind and without meaning. Had he learned to commune with the Great Lord, and to behold the Father of the Temple with rightful soul and intent, he would no longer share in such ignorance.

Ave Satanas.
 
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