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The Hobbit trilogy - News, rumours and discussion
- Thread starter Edmond Dantès
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Ixion
Member
The tonal shifting itself is a problem, but I think the bigger issue is the resulting story. PJ's been trying to tie everything in the book to Sauron. He's been trying to take all those whimsical, unrelated scenes, take a person who was mentioned once in the books, and tie everything back to him.
It feels forced and overwrought. The story wasn't meant for that.
It feels forced and overwrought. The story wasn't meant for that.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
As Freeman says, it's all a matter of taste and opinion. The way people exploded when that Viggo interview came out was ridiculous. It wasn't like he said anything revelatory with regards to the Hobbit films - he'd only echoed criticisms that many actual film critics had already voiced. But some people acted as though we had been waiting with baited breath to hear his opinion as though it were the final word on this trilogy. His opinions aren't any more or less valid than anybody else's, same goes for Freeman. It initially struck me as bad form on Viggo's part, as there's obviously an unspoken agreement in Hollywood that you don't talk shit about other people's films on a public platform. But seeing as he was asked directly, I can't hold it against him. He's obviously a guy who cares deeply about the art of film-making (and given his words, must desperately hate all Hollywood blockbusters).
The story is still central in this trilogy, the bigger issue is that it's just not Tolkien's story. Bits and pieces are there (and they're usually pretty great when they are), but Jackson has definitely taken more liberties here in order to create three 2.5 hour films.
It's funny, the only thing on Earth that equals my passion for Tolkien is my passion for Superman. Yesterday I watched both Man of Steel and DOS while working around my apartment, and I still have more issues with MOS and it's fiddling with the Superman mythos than I do with Jackson's fiddling with the Hobbit. I'm not sure why that is, but it was just something that I was reminded of.
The story is still central in this trilogy, the bigger issue is that it's just not Tolkien's story. Bits and pieces are there (and they're usually pretty great when they are), but Jackson has definitely taken more liberties here in order to create three 2.5 hour films.
It's funny, the only thing on Earth that equals my passion for Tolkien is my passion for Superman. Yesterday I watched both Man of Steel and DOS while working around my apartment, and I still have more issues with MOS and it's fiddling with the Superman mythos than I do with Jackson's fiddling with the Hobbit. I'm not sure why that is, but it was just something that I was reminded of.
I don't see how he's not being honest. He acknowledges the amount of CGI in the movies and shows respect for Viggo's opinion. He may change his opinion in 10 years, but it is entirely likely that he really feels that way right now.I expect a more honest opinion from Freeman 10 years from now, just like Viggo.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Seems to be following the manner in which ROTK was promoted. Nothing much was heard or seen of ROTK until September with the first trailer and then from that point on the bombardment started. For ROTK, the justification was that promotion wasn't really needed until September because the hype was already at an all time high following TTT, plus ROTK was finished very late and was still been worked on a great deal during the Summer of 2003.
As for BOFTA, certainly because so much of the CG is unfinished and maybe WB feel that the marketing build-up is better suited for an Autumn start.
The best part of the Hobbit movies continues to be the Chronicles books. Picked up the latest one today:
Book no. 5. A really exhaustive look at the production of a movie on the side of Weta Workshop. Amazing books if youre a fan of film and the amazing worldbuilding that Weta are capable of.
Book no. 5. A really exhaustive look at the production of a movie on the side of Weta Workshop. Amazing books if youre a fan of film and the amazing worldbuilding that Weta are capable of.
I also agree with the conflicting tonal shifts in the movies, they create such a weird feeling. One moment it's a cheeky adventure, the next is a gloomy, violent, dark action movie. Not that i'm complaining, I liked DOS and UJ for what they were, great entertainment, still a more cohesive tone would have been much better
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It doesn't help that Freeman is a shitty Bilbo.
Yeah, you nailed my thoughts on it as well. As soon as there were there were the first solid rumors of making The Hobbit after LOTR was finished, I fully expected right then and there that the Hobbit (and it didn't matter who the director might be, what direction they might go with it, or anything) would fall short of the greatness of the LOTR films. And as you said, it was for the simple reason that the Hobbit source material falls well short of the LOTR source material.
Don't get me wrong, I love Middle-Earth, and I love the Hobbit book as well. But it's a pale shadow of LOTR, and there was no reason that the film version should match up to the LOTR films, when the starting source material was of such a different quality.
That's not to deny that there has clearly been a good deal of bloat added to The Hobbit films, there has been more tweaking to the narrative, there has been clear tonal shifts as others have mentioned. But at the end of the day, Peter Jackson did a fabulous job with the LOTR films, and I don't care who they would have brought in for the The Hobbit films, or how they might have changed its direction - it was always going to make for a poor comparison to the LOTR films when there was such a stark difference in the source material between the Hobbit and LOTR.
Having said all of that, I am still enjoying the Hobbit films, and enjoying spending some more time in Middle-Earth, and I'm glad that they went ahead and made them. I just never had any expectations whatsoever that they would be on the same level with LOTR.
As Corey Olsen put it in the latest Riddles in the Dark podcast, at this point when predicting what's going to happen in BOFA or how Jackson will interpret the remaining material...just go with what sounds cool. Don't go with "Well, in the book...", because you'll be either way off are simply underwhelmed.
BOFA will undoubtedly be more about spectacle than anything, given the events to come. So at this point my advice would be to just sit back and watch the 2014 Weta Digital VFX Bonanza™.
BOFA will undoubtedly be more about spectacle than anything, given the events to come. So at this point my advice would be to just sit back and watch the 2014 Weta Digital VFX Bonanza™.
I've enjoyed Freeman, heck I haven't had a problem with any of the cast really. However, Ken Stott has put in my favorite performance of anybody at this point.
I suppose this comes down to personal opinion, but I thought Freeman was one of the best possible choices for Bilbo. He comes across as Frodo-esque, but tougher and more ornery, with good body language. He's possibly my favorite "fitting" casting choice in the Hobbit movies along with Thorin and maybe Smaug's voice.
*edit* I agree Balin is decent too.
He's phenomenal. Just doesn't get enough screentime when he's supposed to be the main character.
I get chills everytime in that one scene during the spider escape where he realises what the ring is already doing to him.
I will never understand why they cut all his Rivendell scenes in the original AUJ cut, baffling.
WyndhamPrice
Member
Once again you post this and once again I have to remind you that you are the only person on Earth who thinks this.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Nah, I find Freeman pretty damn good as Bilbo.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Nah, there have been others apart from myself on this forum that have seen the light as well.
Megalosaro
Banned
Freeman is good as Bilbo, but I don't think he's necessarily utilized properly.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
24-27 July.
Little Old Man
Member
My heart broke during the Moria scenes on a recent rewatch of FOTR. They carry so much more emotional weight now.
On a wider note, I can't say I have an issue with any of the casting so far in the trilogy.
maquiladora
Member
DanteSparda504
Banned
They really transformed him as a character. He was an enjoyable character in the books, but he is easily the shining star in the movies. And it does change the Moria scenes in Fellowship now that you know how great Balin was.
AgentOtaku
Member
All The Hobbit films needed to do was recreate/carry the tone and execution of the first dinner with Biblo and the dwarves. They fucking nailed that whole sequence so hard. Wonderfully charming, tonally consistent, actually feels intimate and whimsical per the book's original intent.
I smile ear to ear everytime I watch it and its easily best thing The Hobbit films have produced.
I smile ear to ear everytime I watch it and its easily best thing The Hobbit films have produced.
His monologue building up Thorin in the first film is up there with my favorites in either trilogy so far.
And to weigh in on Freeman as Bilbo, I too thought he'd be perfect for it but there have been a lot of scenes where he's just felt flat to me, like the fainting at the initial meeting or even with Smaug. But at the same time he's also had some great moments, like the sparing of Gollum or his ring-induced freak out when killing that spider. I don't think he's been shitty by any means, though.
DanteSparda504
Banned
I think Freeman is a perfect Bilbo. I wouldn't change him at all.
Franchuzas87
Member
Freeman is a great young Bilbo. For me is already like Elijah Wood as Frodo or Ian McKellen as Gandalf: I just can't imagine another actor in the role.
Agree with Ken Stott too. Perfect Balin.
Agree with Ken Stott too. Perfect Balin.
Megalosaro
Banned
Elijah Wood is too young for Frodo. Ian Holme did a better job with the character in the BBC radio version
I don't really feel able to judge Freeman's performance as Bilbo because the material he's been working with is so poor. His entire character arc was turned into an action movie cliche (and condensed into the first film), and the added material concerning the psychological aspects of bearing the Ring are absurdly heavy-handed. Everything from the ominous zoom-in to the painting of Sauron with the Ring in Rivendell (AUJ-EE) to the Walter White-esque spider murder scene in DOS is hammering the audience over the head with the significance of the Ring. Even if one ignores how the book handles things, it only highlights the parochialism of The Hobbit next to LOTR since the Ring is still ultimately a sideshow in this story.
It just boils down to the fact that Hobbit isn't as good of a story as LotR tbh.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
You're being contrarian for contrarian's sake.
He's done a wonderful job playing Bilbo. I honestly don't know what'd you expect from that kind of character, but it's pretty spot on with Tolkien's Bilbo in my opinion.
I've been meaning to grab this to add to my collection, glad to hear it's up to par with Weta's other fantastic Hobbit Chronicles
Freeman has been one of the best part of these films.
Won't stop him from trying to shit up this thread with his opinion that is universally countered.
Ixion
Member
I disagree. The Hobbit is the worse story for the type of film Peter Jackson is trying to make.
If a director made a Hobbit film that emphasizes and focuses on the humor, whimsy, charm, and "fairy-tale" feel of the book, it could be a fantastic movie. It just wouldn't be good for the same reasons LOTR is good. Just like the books!
Megalosaro
Banned
This. I love the Silmarillion for it's breathtaking and sweeping mythology, I love the hobbit for its fairytale adventure and charm. And I love LotR for its fully realized world, grand scope and emotional elements.
Each of Tolkien's books were trying different things. Is there a lot less at stake in the Hobbit? Yes. But that's not a bad thing. Not every high fantasy story needs to be a save the world affair. We could use more stories like the hobbit about small adventures.
Seems to be the case at this point. However, I suppose we could get one last vlog detailing the production wrapping up and some bits about filming BOFA. Seeing as Jackson & Co. will be at Comic-Con this year (likely with the teaser trailer), I wouldn't be surprised if he had a production vlog to go along with it.
EdReedFan20
Member
I bet the teaser trailer (which PJ said is coming soon) will be attached to WB's Into The Storm, which stars Richard Armitage (Thorin Oakenshield). The full trailer is said to be coming around October.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Some unseen production videos.
http://eiga.com/official/hobbit/2-chapter8/index.html
Potentially indicative of what we can expect in the extended edition of TDOS; more of Beorn who was greatly underused in the theatrical cut.
http://eiga.com/official/hobbit/2-chapter8/index.html
Potentially indicative of what we can expect in the extended edition of TDOS; more of Beorn who was greatly underused in the theatrical cut.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Indeed. I'm also wondering if they'll expand upon Gandalf's capture; possible reasoning via dialogue as to why Sauron didn't just kill him considering what a threat he is (knowing full well that he is Olorin in aged raiment).
Napalm_Frank
Member
He did in the TUJ intro. Unless of course you mean the specific scene with Gandalf.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
It seems like a lot rejigging of the narrative has taken place since the trilogy split and Thrain's story arc has suffered as a result.
Referring to the scene with Gandalf, yes
Edmond Dantès;120412486 said:
I'd be very interested once all this is over to see/read an analysis of the all the changes and reasons as to why the change occurred with two movies into three.
Re-watching the AUJ EE with Jackson and Boyen's commentary, and I guess I missed this detail the first time around, but Boyens implies pretty directly that
Interesting...
I guess it's not really all that shocking when you consider the blatant foreshadowing in DOS with High Fells scene.
the Nazgûl will partake in the Battle of Dol Guldur in some fashion.
I guess it's not really all that shocking when you consider the blatant foreshadowing in DOS with High Fells scene.
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