kunonabi
Member
Since forever? It's two points from being a failing score.
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The hostility towards Federation Force isn't justified
- Thread starter Jonneh3003
- Start date
Since forever? It's two points from being a failing score.
nkarafo
Member
Nah, these were released along with some nice main games so people didn't care too much about them.
If you announced a Mega Man Soccer right now, you'd get that response.
Also
"Metal Gear zombie survival? How dare you Konami?"
That one happened just a few days ago.
Then don't order it.
A better analogy would be to go to a restaurant to get the "soup of the day" and then yelling at the cooks that they have a different soup up and then yelling at them for making a meal for someone else that you wouldn't eat, yet it's on the menu and that customer ordered it and is enjoying it.
So if Prime 4 had come out (or say it does come out within a year of the NX launch), Federation Force would have magically turned into a "Metroid" game for you? Because that's the only reason you're saying Pinball and Hunters are "real" Metroid titles while Federation Force is not.
Not everyone uses the same scoring system. We've been over this with so many review threads. A 3/5 could be an average game that gets a recommendation, yet MC translates it to a 60/100 and a "failing" score. We already know folks like Jim Sterling outright state they use the whole grading scale, not just 6-10.
Isn't it 6? I could have sworn that 65 was the highest possible F on the education scale.
Stone Ocean
Member
Pretty much. It's really easy to compare FF to Pinball if you forget Prime 2 had just been released and Prime 3 had been announced. People were not fucking worried about the future of the series at that point in time.
kunonabi
Member
Might have changed since I was in school then.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I have no doubt that it's a damn competent game given the developer. Games like these do not come out in a vacuum though. Pretty damn tone deaf of Nintendo to release a spin off like this when fans got Other M (which was already not a homerun game) followed by a long haitus. I don't care how decent of a game this is, now is simply not the time for a metroid spin off. Particularly one that visually looks like the way Federation Force does.
Pikmin got the sequel it deserved in 3 and they've already started on 4. It also got the Wii ports in the meantime and we knew about 3's existence from before 2010 (not sure exactly).
Warioware and Wario Land are not even comparable to Metroid, despite being great franchises they're B-Tier and therefore garner less attention overall. 1080 and Wave Race are very much the same.
Zelda has always had at least one big game per generation, and despite Skyward Sword not being the best it was still very much a Zelda game. We also knew about Zelda Wii U 3 years after Skyward Sword released whereas we have no idea whether a Prime 4 or Metroid: Dread or whatever is even in development.
People are still rightfully angry about F-Zero's lack of a main game but even then it is still not as big a franchise as Metroid. Metroid, alongside Mario and Zelda, is one of the franchises that's been with Nintendo since practically the very start and is prominent in so much of their whole-company advertising.
Back in the SNES days Metroid had only received three games up until that point so it skipping a generation wouldn't have been seen as abnormal as it is now. Metroid: Other M was not the Metroid game the majority of fans wanted and was just a poor game in general, so whilst it is technically a "mainline" game it's still been 8 years since the last actually decent Metroid game was released.
Federation Force is like if we had NO clue whatsoever about Breath of the Wild's existence, Link Between Worlds hadn't been released, Skyward Sword was generally hated as an actual game, then Nintendo finally comes out with Tri-Force Heroes and/or Hyrule Warriors and nothing else. All they need to do is confirm that this isn't the last actual Metroid game and fans will be fine. It's Federation Force being so far removed from the general Metroid formula and art-style (and no, the NES games being slightly Chibi due to technology restraints doesn't make it better. This isn't "Metroid: Federation Force") along with the genuine worry that it not doing so well might kill the franchise for good that makes this so bad for fans.
After Mighty Number 9 and the Red Ash shenanigans, I wouldn't be too sure of that!
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Out of the 3DS games released this year and are elligible on MC for the reviews aggregate, FF is the 21 out of 27 games.
Final Fantasy Explorers only has 2 points less and that game is basically the perfect example of lukewarm reception and mediocricity. Bad is not the word, but is not exactly a good score in the actual context of how reviews works today.
LambdaTeos
Member
i forgot you were paying for the whole development of the game
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
The entire backlash against Federation Force was built on a sense of entitlement. Fans of course, don't want hear the word "entitlement" because fans don't want the illusion that they're always right and have the ability to dictate to a creator/creative staff what to do (how many times have you heard "give the fans want they want for example) to be shattered. But yes, entitlement has all to do with it. Federation Force, despite it being a game that the head of Metroid as we know it wanted it make, the fans didn't. And they outlined that distate with the same annoying criticisms and social media spam. Same with the Ghostbusters backlash and hell, the same kind of attitude lead to Gamergate.
It doesn't matter if something's good or not. You can say if something's good or not without coming across as angry. It's something people have forgot in the wake of the "angry and cynical" Youtube critic but self-discipline will ultimately make for better arguments and writing. Everybody who is part of the problem could've said their part, not buy the game, and have that be done with. Sales matter the most after all. But no it all devolves around the same childish sounding arguments around the graphics or the final boss or it should be more atmospheric instead of either being a reasonable adult and not buying it or seeing how the game does on its own merits and seeing if it passes or fails. Instead every Federation Force thread devolved into the same bag of sludge thrown into a dumpster and set on fire. Fandom is broken and people will never learn.
What if the restaurant used to sell steak, so you go there, wait 45 minutes to be seated, get a menu, and it's all soup. You ask what happened to the steak, and they tell you they only have soups now but they are sure you will like it.
What? Are you implying that being a fan means you have to like every game and spin-off the devs throw your way or are you implying that Metroid fans for some reason want the franchise to crash and burn?
Stone Ocean
Member
No. Federation Force would've just not gotten the vitriol it did because people that didn't care for it wouldn't feel the need to attack it.
Case in point: XCOM and The Bureau.
No, I'm pretty damn sure that a Mega Man sports spinoff announced today would herald a chorus of "fuck Capcom".
nkarafo
Member
No, i would still not care for it. I just wouldn't hate it as much.
And i never said Pinball or Hunters are "true" Metroid games for me.
This is by far the best possible comparison lmao.
Anyways, I can see this already became one of those "lmao fucking metroid fans deserve this for being so whiny and picky!!" yikes. I'll see myself out.
People also have different EXPECTATIONS of Metroid, so I don't think that's fair either.
We get crap Final Fantasy spin-offs every other week. They FLOOD us with Final Fantasy spin-offs. We tend to actually get excited when they don't outright suck and are remotely enjoyable.
Metroid, however, still holds a pretty illustrious standard in the industry. Look no further than detractors of FF itself for making demands on what the game should or should not be and harshly judging it before even playing a single mission. An "average" Metroid title doesn't cut it.
It's like those Zelda fans that threw a fit when a 8.8/10 score first came out and they lost their collective minds. It's ZELDA! It should be BETTER than that!... That was just the standard critics and fans expected of the series, fair or not.
I think Konami did more than just do pachinko spin-offs. It would be like if Nintendo FIRED Tanabe, Miyamoto, and Sakamoto, cancelled Prime 4 after giving us a playable demo, and then decided "screw it" and stopped making real games entirely and we only got Zelda and Metroid pachinko machines, and that was their ENTIRE company future. Konami deserved everything they got.
By what metric? Wario Land is more commercially successful than metroid
nkarafo
Member
And they continue to call it a steak even though it's really a soup.
You bring up a good case study there that's actually real compared to all the hypotheticals posted by me and other people.
The Bureau was initially announced simply as "XCOM" and got the same hate and derision as Federation Force is getting now. Then when that disappeared for a while XCOM: Enemy Unknown was released. After The Bureau: XCOM Declassified came out a year after people didn't hate it anywhere as much and just saw it for the mediocre game it actually was.
i for one, think that fans hating SURVIVE are being a little unfair
In this thread, we have people saying that none of the games past the original Metroid Prime are real Metroid games. And considering how the sales of the Prime series continued to collapse with each subsequent game, I don't think they're necessary an outlier.
What I'm saying is, if I was someone involved in creating this franchise, I think it would be easier to drop it than to try to make someone that appeals to the fanbase while maintaining my own creative freedom. I'd be happier making something else.
By the "gaming community admiration" metric. I think I made it pretty clear that I wasn't talking about sales, otherwise I would have put Wii Sports, Fit and Nintendogs as Nintendo's main franchises.
I really don't get that one, either. We've already had Metal Gear: The Card Game and Metal Gear: The Character Action Game. How is a spinoff that allegedly plays like fucking Metal Gear worth more hate?
Zombies aren't even a new concept for mainline titles! Half the cast are practically zombies as it is!
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Nah, Konami is frankly reaping what they sowed. Federation Force looks alright, but honestly, Nintendo sabotaged this game by releasing it to starved fans without a hint of a real, mainline metroid down the line.
Brian_FETO
Banned
The soup belongs in the steak family
I mean look at this! It's a picture of a steak....inside of the soup!
I think the initial disappointment when it was announced is justified judging by how long it's been since the last good Metroid game. Everyone's been rooting for it to fail, calling for its cancellation and demanding it completely gets reworked ever since then though, and it gets harder and harder to sympathise, because the game is what it is and reworking or cancelling it would have done nothing but waste money.
Version 3.0
Member
The hate for this game has nothing to do with the game itself. It's simple: it's BS to release a "spin-off" game when there is no main game to be "spun off" from.
There was no big outcry against Metroid Prime Hunters, or even Metroid Prime Pinball, because the main series was alive and well. Same goes for other examples in the thread, such as Mega Man Soccer. Spin-offs are fine. Even goofy big-headed ones. Just not in the ongoing absence of the main series itself.
There was no big outcry against Metroid Prime Hunters, or even Metroid Prime Pinball, because the main series was alive and well. Same goes for other examples in the thread, such as Mega Man Soccer. Spin-offs are fine. Even goofy big-headed ones. Just not in the ongoing absence of the main series itself.
We have one person saying that, not people. The Metroid Prime series were almost universally liked at the very least and I don't know where you're getting the "sales tanked" idea because 3, perhaps the least liked off the trilogy, sold more than a million copies in total.
It's only when Nintendo began to ignore what had worked so far and give Other M to Team Ninja then come out with this after such a long wait that the fanbase has begun to actively dislike the games.
You mean like a regular dish, something you can get all the time, all season?
Metroid was NEVER that.
You're thinking of yearly Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed offerings.
Metroid is a special dish. One that they once only made available three times in sixteen years. And one that never really was that popular compared their million-selling hamburgers and fries.
But lucky for you, there are a thousand other restaurants across the street offering up various other seasoned steaks, only they call them names like "Axiom Verge", "Shadow Complex", and "Ori and the Blind Forest".
And isn't that the POINT?
The problem with Federation Force is NOT Federation Force, but merely the absence of a Prime or Super successor. Federation Force, on its OWN MERITS, is a solid, fine, fun experience.
But this game isn't a spin-off in that sense. It's not Pinball, it's not Pachinko - it plays like Metroid. It could be Metroid, if not for the nonsensical anti-Metroid design decisions. It was clearly presented as being the next Metroid, as part of the Prime series. Something Tanabe had wanted to do for years, as he insisted. 'Absolutely part of the core idea for the prime series, I sware on me mum, buy this game' and all that.
If the gameplay is the same as the core series, it's just not a spin-off in the ways those other games are, and it's not going to be seen the same, imo.
I really don't think MP Pinball would have gotten quite the same reaction this game has. In that case, we'd clearly see that it's just a cash-in. Here, they set one of their best handheld teams... to do this. When NLG could blatantly have made a real Metroid in the same time, and have the talent to do so. And they thought we'd like it. That's how out of touch they are.
It's not the same.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
SurVive is the perfect example and probably the first time I could see eye to eye with Metroid. It's a game completely different from the rest of the series that doesn't look good and has no involvement from its creator while both games are capitalizing on trends (Federation Force with online multiplayer missions and SurVive being a Day-Z esque survival game). Difference is while I was disappointed with SurVive, I also stopped giving a shit soon afterward.
It's a fine enough reason to be disappointed with a game at first but after awhile it just becomes old. Not to mention if you've seen the game's ending you'll realize that the head of Metroid as we know it has a plan to continue the franchise with a proper Prime sequel.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
No one got excited with FF Explorers. That's kinda the point, both tittles recived lukewarm reviews, they are both basically, average games, not bad, but neither good games. In today's landscape of gaming, that's not a very good place to stay. MC is basically telling you there are 20 better games to play on 3DS just released this year (well 3 of them are FE Fates version, but you get the point).
You don't have to take MC as the gospel, you can pitifully claim that IGN review is trash and shouldn't be counted, but that's not really the point. The point is a 71 MC score shows how the game reviewed and how that score is viewed from possible customers.
And a 71 is not very good.
Maybe it's because Rising is the only Metal Gear game I've loved, but the game didn't look too bad, and my reaction to the backlash was "of course they're mad..."
TBH anything Konami announces with the Metal Gear brand from now on will get this, regardless of how good or half-assed it may look.
The defense for Federation Force isn't justified, either.
It seems at best like a mediocre game. Some people may have fun with it, it's okay, there's no need to defend this so much though. The main problem people have is that after so many years we get a new Metroid game and it's a spin off no one asked for and they have every right to complain. It's just underwhelming compared to their expectations.
It seems at best like a mediocre game. Some people may have fun with it, it's okay, there's no need to defend this so much though. The main problem people have is that after so many years we get a new Metroid game and it's a spin off no one asked for and they have every right to complain. It's just underwhelming compared to their expectations.
WrenchNinja
Member
I'll probably check this out since a portable Prime-like game is appealing. Just not at fifty bucks.
with "games" like this, metroid may as well remain dead
but we havent reached the point where people would treat kojima like they treat sakamoto, if kojima was involved, people would be sucking his balls
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Gaming I think is the only medium I've seen where the community is so quick to blame fans and the consumer for the developer's and publisher's mistakes.
nkarafo
Member
Yes but it's not a Metroid game.
It's problem really is the title that creates expectations. And since there is no other "main" Metroid game this can be a problem.
My issues with federation force almost exclusively comes from the climate of its release. The last game in the Metroid series was Other M, the game that some claimed have killed samus as a character. The best praise that even the people who actually enjoyed it usually give is "eh, it's ok if you ignore the story" or "Its a good action game but a bad Metroid game". It toned down/removed what fans love about a Metroid game and turned what people hated about fusion up to 11. Metroid Other M could be more accurately described as a spin off even though it's a mainline title in Nintendo's eyes.
Now, after all that, 6 years later, you release Federation Force. A game that doesn't star samus, a game that it's another spin off, and a game that yet again misses the point of a Metroid game. Instead of getting the game that could have redeemed the characterization of Samus and reminded everyone why they fell in love with the series we get Federation Force.
Now, after all that, 6 years later, you release Federation Force. A game that doesn't star samus, a game that it's another spin off, and a game that yet again misses the point of a Metroid game. Instead of getting the game that could have redeemed the characterization of Samus and reminded everyone why they fell in love with the series we get Federation Force.
My concern is largely that this Metroid-branded non-Metroid game will sell and review very poorly, and Nintendo will come up with the misconception that customers don't want another Metroid game.
Otherwise, people can like what they like. This, I do not like, and I can easily dismiss by not spending money on it. It'd be a real shame if we never saw another Mario game just because nobody bought Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, ya know?
Otherwise, people can like what they like. This, I do not like, and I can easily dismiss by not spending money on it. It'd be a real shame if we never saw another Mario game just because nobody bought Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, ya know?
As someone who bought and enjoyed the game, the defense force is the worst thing about it.