Youtube (/streaming) *is* television for an enormous and growing amount of people today. Certainly it's replacing a lot of casual TV watching for me, and I'm an old old man. It's not that it's the "future" of media/influence, it's the __today__ of media and influence. People like PDP have enormous audiences that vastly overshadows the amount of scrutiny and accountability their popularity warrants, especially when their humor tends towards edgelordy racist/misogynistic shit.
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The Jimquisition: YouTubers Say The Darndest Things
- Thread starter Garrett Hawke
- Start date
Completely putting aside "politics" (racism) for a sec, he's completely right about e-celebrities having it way easier than they know it. Whenever a Youtuber faces any kind of backlash, criticism or other issues like copyright problems, they act like they're being super hard done by, and the system is out to crush them and targeting them specifically.
Why is it up to someone like boogie to take a stand? You may feel he has a moral obligation but that's pretty much it.
Muscle Wizard
Banned
I'm talking of manchildren who a take a week off of work to play a new video game, of people who would really like to believe talking about video games is the most important thing ever.
Dude what are you talking about? Your last point could be applied to anything from sports to movies to books. You're just regurgitating vapid statements that must sound real intelligent to you but are full of so many holes it might as well be swiss cheese. Just because you're somehow immune to being influenced by media doesn't mean no one else is and to say otherwise is a little ignorant considering the effects everything from music to movies have had on the world at large well beyond the realms of pop culture. Kim Kardashian has more public sway than a lot of politicians.
That's good from Verizon, and yeah advertisers have the power here.
However, as I'll say in every Youtube Meta thread, the complete lack of any formal guild, union, etc for those who earn money from, or via, Youtube is the main thing stopping change from happening. Things rarely get fixed via op-eds and rant videos.
These people want all of the celebrity of reaching a mass audience but want none of the responsibility.
"It's just about games!" They say, forgetting that their internet personality extends to their twitter identity where they talk about a lot more than games to the same exact audience.
"It's just about games!" They say, forgetting that their internet personality extends to their twitter identity where they talk about a lot more than games to the same exact audience.
web archive link in case the site is down:
https://web.archive.org/web/2017032...sition.com/youtubers-say-the-darndest-things/
https://web.archive.org/web/2017032...sition.com/youtubers-say-the-darndest-things/
More_Badass
Member
O...oh, that explains a lot
Because he took a stand, and said that spouting transparent racist bullshit was like "trying on a hat."
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
There were regular members in the jontron thread that said that seeing this article truly opened their eyes to unsubscribe from Jon. Every little bit helps.
He made a video on the subject explaining his own stance. Which was titled Let's set the record straight... Jontron, Pewdiepie, Colin Moriarty, Phillip De Franco
It's a blanket defense for all of the current Youtubers who have recently fallen under criticism lately. He also would rather attack the media AND defend Jontron simply because he's a fellow YT buddy.
He already made a stand. To attack the media rather than denounce his "friends"
How is that possible? Media doesn't influence people.
Watch the video.
To be honest that is kind of what Jim thrives on. Digital Homicide, Nintendo, the BotW backlash, all events he took further into the spotlighy than was really necessary. Whilst he's 100% right on the Jontron issue, it's not like he hasn't taken advantage of easy outrage in the past. But I digress, that's not what this thread is about, just felt like pointing iy out.
Triggerhappytel
Member
If you don't believe in this premise and you have nothing to add then why are you even here?!
ShironRedshift
Member
He could choose to just say and do nothing true, and that would be his right. Problem is, he has chosen to open his mouth and because of that, people have the right in turn to criticize his stance, especially since it's a pretty damn weak one where he equated being a racist to "trying on a new hat." No one force him to say that. No gun was pointed to his head, or anything. He chose to, and thus people can criticize him right back and ask for more from him than that. Freedom of speech is a two-road street.
Muscle Wizard
Banned
You're really close to getting it. Sports, movies, and books are a part of it, that people are bombarded with the idea that the media they consume is as important as their politics. Jon and Jim don't strengthen the political discourse, they cheapen it. We're living in an age where the most common liberal thought from grown ass people is "the president is Voldermort, this is like game of thrones".
NormalFish
Banned
You're actually comparing Jim's provocative but self aware antics to actual racial-purity-spouting white supremacists. Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, you need to reevaluate that?
Except he clearly knows how privileged he is, as -- like you say yourself -- he makes ample use of it to publicize himself. I don't think anyone is trying to demonize youtubers for making use of the public sphere to advertise themselves, so I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.
blacklotus
Member
Well, I got this out of Boogie.
My question was sugested by a forum member here named Tagyhag.
I think it's absurd to believe that YouTube celebs aren't a big influence on people. There are tons of kids and young teens watching these people all fucking day. My 9 year old niece is constantly referencing some YouTube star or video and even acting like them sometimes. Kids are very impressionable and suggestive. They can very well adopt some of these views.
The kids I interact with (SO's younger sibling and cousins) don't even watch TV but YouTube. My SO's little brother is 13 and already tainted by alt-right ideology.
Muscle Wizard
Banned
Because disagreeing is a part of discussions and just having everyone keep at their own camps does germinate awful ideas. Jontron probably says the shit he says because he's insulated himself to outside thinking.
You realize this is nothing new at all right? People give a shit about the forms of entertainment and media they consume. You realize that their used to be gangs formed around different theaters and even actors who would go around disrupting other performances by doing things like heckling, fighting and the rare occasion out right riots and murder. Remember when John Lennon claimed the Beatles were bigger than Jesus? Or how about the War of the Worlds broadcast? Perhaps you've heard of a poet by the name of Dante Alighieri and the wide ranging effects he had on the world and religion at large?
chaobreaker
Member
Quite telling how Boogie believes condemning his buddy's white supremacist views will be a bigger threat to his livelihood than arguing that he's just going through a harmless phase but also MAINSTREAM MEDIA BULLYING SHOULD CEASE
I think you should read the article.
It isn't only about JonTron.
If Jim's provocative content is fine, then why is PDP's shock humor isn't? (Edit: as in, its "just" antics/jokes/fake internet character)
So, no, I dont need to re evaluate that.
Jim is also a youtuber, he is not exempt from the laws he is trying to set.
VendettaRed07
Member
Think boogie's stance here is crazy considering how he has gone off on others before for making fat jokes or body shaming or whatever.
So the site is down and I can't read the article. He got ddosed again?
I think its crazy period, you can't argue logic with someone who think you are subhuman.
I think its crazy period, you can't argue logic with someone who think you are subhuman.
I've been familiar with Jim since the start of his time on Destructoid when he replaced Robert Summa. I can say with 100% certainty that he doesn't apply it to himself.
Jontron and PDP, like so many of the subjects his videos and articles, are easy targets. Sterling definitely has past transgressions similar to those personalities whether in the context of racist/misogynist statements or racist/misogynist jokes. He (like every other human being on Earth) just affords himself more room for error and forgiveness rather than apply the same absolute moral standard he does everyone else.
Yeah I remember when he made that video about domestic abuse, a topic I think people are way more sympathetic towards than JonTron's racist shenanigans.
Jim's antics you're taking issue with are satire. There's a difference between satire, and a person like PDP thinking what he said is actually a funny joke. Jim doesn't stand at his podium and preach anti-semitism.
Muscle Wizard
Banned
The War of the Worlds story is blown out of proportion, only a small portion of isolated people thought it was real because it was a faux news broadcast, not an unboxing video. John Lennon said they were bigger than Jesus and immediately had to apologize because he offended every christian who cared more about religion than their favorite band. West Side Story is just a musical and the Jets and the Sharks weren't real. Maybe if you did some actual research or used critical thinking you'd have a more accurate idea about the evidence you used instead of regurgitating the half-truths from the media and general pop culture osmosis.
Good article, he articulated what's going on very well.
When has Jim joked about killing all the Jews? He's not done anything of the sort.
When has Jim joked about killing all the Jews? He's not done anything of the sort.
HammerFace
Banned
It loaded for me, it just took like a few minutes.
Please explain the difference.
PDP didn't preach anti-semitism either. The whole nazi controversy was about something he did as a joke - i.e. satire.
I replied to a poster who was saying everything is fine beacuse in jim's case its "antics".
He didn't joke about killing the Jews. But I have written what he did do in my first post here (basically use nazi-esque imagery as a backdrop and encourage piracy, but i guess people think its fine because its satire, and because his lawyer made him say "don't pirate" at the end of the video).
ClosingADoor
Member
Jon on record: I believe X.
Boogie: I don't think Jon believes X.
Ehm, dude. Wake up.
Schnozberry
Member
This phenomenon isn't specific to Youtubers. People of all stripes are very adept at being a bit solipsistic about the wisdom of their own opinions, and casting themselves as the victim when they receive backlash.
This is a microcosm of the political reality we live in at the moment. Imagine if any liberal said any of the litany of terrible things that have been pouring out of major conservative figureheads lately. They would be absolutely buried by the opposing party, and disowned by their own. Meanwhile, conservatives throw down a massive wave of bad behavior and gross rhetoric and surf into the White House. What should be career-ending gaffes are instead doubled down on and worn as badges of honor.
The double standard just drives you mad. Libs have their apologists, of course, but in general when they fuck up or say something stupid, it doesn't just go away like it tends to with conservatives.
And the worst part is that the younger generation is falling for this junk. Young people are supposed to be the force of resistance against regressive social attitudes, there shouldn't be a huge moment helping them along. I guess when understanding and tolerance threaten to become the new normal, ignorance and discrimination become the new rebellion.
The double standard just drives you mad. Libs have their apologists, of course, but in general when they fuck up or say something stupid, it doesn't just go away like it tends to with conservatives.
And the worst part is that the younger generation is falling for this junk. Young people are supposed to be the force of resistance against regressive social attitudes, there shouldn't be a huge moment helping them along. I guess when understanding and tolerance threaten to become the new normal, ignorance and discrimination become the new rebellion.
So if that's your audience, racism is OK?
You can be unimpressed with the work these guys do and also be concerned with the promotion of racism.
Even with the whole dictator schtick, Jim frequently pushes for equality and progressiveness. He's also super pro-consumer, to the point where I think it's a bit ridiculous, but he always tries to be inclusive with his discussions.
Glad you agree with my that these people and their products have real influence on the general public outside of just entertainment.
So what is your ideal vacation?
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
If YouTubers can influence my kids to beg me to hunt down a Hatchimal while they are sold out right before the Holidays, they can very well influence them on more social and political things if I allowed them to watch that content.
Muscle Wizard
Banned
I wouldn't say anyone on gaf is part of the general public