Prepare to be very disappointed.
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The Leftovers S3 |OT| The End Is Near - Premieres Sunday 4/16, 9pm on HBO
- Thread starter bodyofanamerican
- Start date
Prepare to be very disappointed.
Fenderputty
Banned
Same. I appreciated the last episode, but what's the point in all this "super natural" stuff if his story arc basically only ends in some self reflection. Maybe the point was to nuke and free everyone in this "purgatory" like area, but if that's the case, I would like that to be made clearer.
I don't think that was the point at all. No one there was real. That's why Kevin couldn't get the information he needed about the shoes or the song from Christopher Sunday. It's all just in Kevin's head. It's not real.
The point of nuking it was Kevin deciding to never go back.
But his dad communicated with him while tripping on God's Tongue. Kevin Sr. doesn't remember it, but Kevin wouldn't know what he was on or where he was.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Yep. There will be no clarification on Kevin's alternate world, certainly nothing pertaining to the reason for the departure, though, I wouldn't be totally surprised if they show us where the departures went/ended up (still with no explanation).
They've been pretty clear from the jump that this is about the characters and their reactions to these events are the story, not the supernatural stuff we see them experience.
I'm actually pretty amused/heartened by the description for the finale:
Here's an image link showing that that is indeed the description
Fenderputty
Banned
I don't agree with this. He was dead, in the ground and lifeless last season. This isn't just "all in his head". Was he dreaming the scenes in the bathtub with his dad? Was he dreaming the conversation after he comes to with his father? What about the episodes where Matt and company confirm they saw his death to Laurie? These can't be in his head because he wasn't even there.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Wait what? Where did this come from?
edit: I'm an idiot. I've also never seen LOST. Does that explain why I fell for this?
Everything that happened in the purgatory or whatever wasn't real. They made it very clear in the last episode that it wasn't some "shared" purgatory but that it was just Kevin's personal thing.
Fluffhead14
Member
it's just a really lazy way to talk about the LOST finale
that description is from people that take pride in hating LOST and attempt to pretend that it was something other than it was.
Fenderputty
Banned
Ok, even if that were true, there's still enough there to suggest it all wasn't in his head though.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Well I don't know what to say about that episode. I think I need more time to fully digest everything that happened.
One thing that did cross my mind as the credits rolled, Nora is going to go into the machine and the 'other world' where the departed were is gone so she'll think it's either bogus or she'll come across a hell-scape of suffering and misery which gives birth to Punished Nora.
One thing that did cross my mind as the credits rolled, Nora is going to go into the machine and the 'other world' where the departed were is gone so she'll think it's either bogus or she'll come across a hell-scape of suffering and misery which gives birth to Punished Nora.
Not sure what i'm supposed to find impressive here. Every one of us could have written an episode like that. If you decide to go nuts and write batshit crazy stuff for batshift crazy stuff's sake that have no repercussions or ties to anything else then ok, that's easy.
I'm sure The Leftovers' greatest fans could write as good 'afterlife' episode for any main character in the show.
Anyhow, all of this for a pretty banal conclusion regarding Kevin and his feeling towards Nora? An epiphany the likes of which the show seemed to point to at S1 & S2 finale only then to undermine it? An epiphany that is actually brought by thanks to the 'afterlife' and to the Kevins that wrote the book and to whatever took place in this afterlife off-screen and unbeknownst to 'Real' Kevin himself?
It's just dumb and cobbled together and doesn't amount to anything.
I found the snarky remark about those GR traditions being 'stupid' an example for how to evaluate this show. They spent 2 years building the GR as the core and driver of this world and characters but then they bombed them out of existence and never said a single world or paid a single thought about the repercussions of that event and how it can shape and reshape the fiction. And then they are tying to act cute and retroactively diminish the emphasis this part of the narrative got up to this season.
Yet another victim of the shortened final season phenomena.
I'm sure The Leftovers' greatest fans could write as good 'afterlife' episode for any main character in the show.
Anyhow, all of this for a pretty banal conclusion regarding Kevin and his feeling towards Nora? An epiphany the likes of which the show seemed to point to at S1 & S2 finale only then to undermine it? An epiphany that is actually brought by thanks to the 'afterlife' and to the Kevins that wrote the book and to whatever took place in this afterlife off-screen and unbeknownst to 'Real' Kevin himself?
It's just dumb and cobbled together and doesn't amount to anything.
I found the snarky remark about those GR traditions being 'stupid' an example for how to evaluate this show. They spent 2 years building the GR as the core and driver of this world and characters but then they bombed them out of existence and never said a single world or paid a single thought about the repercussions of that event and how it can shape and reshape the fiction. And then they are tying to act cute and retroactively diminish the emphasis this part of the narrative got up to this season.
Yet another victim of the shortened final season phenomena.
Nothing that I would consider concrete really. A few things that could be waved away as coincidence or Easter eggs.
What? We've never seen where the departed have gone. There weren't any departed people in Kevin's dream/purgatory thing.
And we know the machine is bogus.
I find it interesting that, as the show is ending (and when they're not talking about the recurring dick joke, clearly the most memorable moment of the episode), people are debating about the nature of the purgatory, what did or didn't "really happen", whether the nuke explosion caused by the lovelorn, messianic main character actually did anything...
Truly, this show is "like nothing else".
Truly, this show is "like nothing else".
The One and Done
Member
I don't think we know that at all.
The One and Done
Member
It's just entertaining to see people's expectations subverted.
And it's even more entertaining to see post like that one.
I love the show but I have to admit this is on point. We know Nora doesn't die or depart we have already seen her as an old women. Its just a bunch of random shit at this point. I still enjoy it but its just for shits and giggles now.
The One and Done
Member
Man you guys are in for a surprise next Sunday. I'll begin planting my corn seeds now.
Lister
Banned
While I loved the writing and character development, as wel as the story arch of Seson 2, Seaosn 1 still is probably where the show was at it's best.
It had the one, inexplicable event, and then it was all about how it affected real people in the real world. Brilliant, though the misery poured down on these folks maybe needed a little Season 2 uplift from time to time.
But now the train is off the rails with all sort of supernatural shenanigans that will never be explained, and are hard to see as anything other than Deus Ex Machina's, and do little to move things forward in any meaningful way.
I get that something else must happen for there to have been a Season 2, but maybe it's a bit much now.
Still looking forward to the end!
It had the one, inexplicable event, and then it was all about how it affected real people in the real world. Brilliant, though the misery poured down on these folks maybe needed a little Season 2 uplift from time to time.
But now the train is off the rails with all sort of supernatural shenanigans that will never be explained, and are hard to see as anything other than Deus Ex Machina's, and do little to move things forward in any meaningful way.
I get that something else must happen for there to have been a Season 2, but maybe it's a bit much now.
Still looking forward to the end!
Fluffhead14
Member
i really don't feel as if kevin's "epiphany" in this episode is lazy/recycled.
this was more about him and less about nora. yeah, he "fucked up" with nora, but him nuking this other world was about opening up himself to life and love in a way that he never has. yeah, he realized in s2 how much he loved nora but that doesn't mean kevin himself wasn't broken. last night he metaphorically destroyed/surgically extracted the part of himself that would run from truly opening up himself.
rarely does anyone get it right the first time.
this was more about him and less about nora. yeah, he "fucked up" with nora, but him nuking this other world was about opening up himself to life and love in a way that he never has. yeah, he realized in s2 how much he loved nora but that doesn't mean kevin himself wasn't broken. last night he metaphorically destroyed/surgically extracted the part of himself that would run from truly opening up himself.
rarely does anyone get it right the first time.
Why didn't anyone tell me writing penultimate episodes of critically acclaimed TV shows was so easy? I would've never gotten into software development.
It's not about being the second-to-last episode - it's about the 'afterlife' being confined to its own space that has no bearing to everything else and no intention by the writers to address the many questions it raises.
You could have had whatever in those segments as long as Kevin reached his realization at the end and it wouldn't have affected anything.
The expectation of what was at the front and center of the world and narrative of The Leftovers (the GR) not to be swept under the rug like it never happened?The One and Done said:
We've been awarded a second 'drop the bomb' worthy WebM for E3:
https://my.mixtape.moe/yvkegx.webm
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https://my.mixtape.moe/yvkegx.webm
--
I'm just curious why someone who wants questions answered would even watch this show. Didn't Lindelof state multiple times that it's not the point of the show, and that those looking for answers should look elsewhere?
This is definitely a show that's about the journey, not the destination - I thought that was pretty clear.
There are many great plot-driven shows out there, so why even waste your time on this one? I mean, it's all subjective and it's your choice of course, but I'm wondering what the point of watching it is if you want answers to everything. It's like watching a documentary when you hate non-fiction, or watching The Sopranos when you hate violence, or watching Dexter when you hate really horrible shows.
Fluffhead14
Member
interesting theory on reddit about the ending:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLeftove...tovers_s03x8_prediction_radiation_hypothesis/
no spoilers, just someone's theory based on info from past episodes
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLeftove...tovers_s03x8_prediction_radiation_hypothesis/
no spoilers, just someone's theory based on info from past episodes
Most of that is terrible but I think there actually is a decent chance that the machine will break when Nora tries to use it.
That's very Leftovers-y to me. Leaving open the possibility that the machine was actually real but offering no actual proof.
Are we forgetting how Kevin literally came back to life after his hotel adventures, last season? Or how he briefly managed to communicate with his father?
Or are we chalking that up to "hey, he just got better (twice)" and "wow, what a coincidence"?
It's not like the show manages to be ambiguous. It's just fucking vague. It kinda commits to the supernatural, but then kinda walks that back, maybe?
"Oh, Kevin's father heard about Dog Man from those voices! -> Dog Man was just crazy... -> Dog Man is in the purgatory! -> The purgatory could just be a dream?"
Did you watch the last episode and think that' Kevin was actually in a "real" purgatory with the other people who died? Like, it's one shared world where Kevin just happens to be president?
And at the end he blew up the actual afterlife?
Byakuya769
Member
Was Wayne a widely known person? I can't remember if Kevin would have had a reason for Wayne to be in the hotel.
The point of my post was that the show itself doesn't seem to care that it made a really good case for that hotel purgatory stuff being "real" (as in, a supernatural element, an actual afterlife that Kevin visited), and apparently believes that's something you can walk back from ("maybe it's all in his head!").
So what do I think? I don't care one way or another either. Why should I?
BrightLightLava
Unconfirmed Member
Did he know that's who Tommy was with?
I don't care either because I enjoy watching the show for reasons other than just needing answers that the creator said up front would never be given.
Again, totally mind blowing to me that people are complaining about this stuff 3 seasons in when it's been known from day 1 that this show wasn't going to be big on answers.
Even when said show wastes so much time on that shit anyway (instead of, say, devoting that to actual character development)? That's very kind of you.
I don't think it made a good case for it all to be honest. I think that reading of it is pretty dumb.
This could be explained in a non-magical way. For instance Kevin used to do stuff after he went to sleep that he doesn't remember. Maybe he had a conversation with his dad while he was tripping off god's tongue that he subconciously remembered and put in the dream. Not saying that's what happened but a possibility.
Kevin met Wayne in the toilets of a restaurant in the season 1 finale, he granted Kevin a wish just before he died.
So, again:
Are we forgetting how Kevin literally came back to life after his hotel adventures, last season? Or how he briefly managed to communicate with his father?
Or are we chalking that up to "hey, he just got better (twice)" and "wow, what a coincidence"?
Well, it's a pretty dumb show...
Fenderputty
Banned
I questioned him regarding this, his response mirrored his suggestion as he handwaved it all away.
Fluffhead14
Member
I just think a lot of this is missing the forest for the trees. The point was that Kevin wanted to believe he was killing himself for any other reason other than the truth: that he was broken, scared, and running from his life. This show is about how we as humans deal with life, and the faulty assumptions we make to try and give life some semblance of purpose or order.
Whether or not you think the themes of the show are conveyed effectively seems like a good discussion. Pondering the realities and/or "rules" of the International Assassin world seems like an exercise in futility. Let the mystery be.
Whether or not you think the themes of the show are conveyed effectively seems like a good discussion. Pondering the realities and/or "rules" of the International Assassin world seems like an exercise in futility. Let the mystery be.
Dafuq? This show is seriously 90% character development.
I've enjoyed the show. That said:
If we're going to believe that all of this stuff is happening in his head, and that there's no supernatural element to it whatsoever, then we have to somehow rationalize the fact he's survived multiple deaths. I mean...he got shot in the fucking chest.
If we are going to believe that he somehow could not die, despite the fact that everyone else can, then we are naturally going to look for meaning in that, other than the fact that he's just the main character in a show. If we cannot find meaning in that, then we can't find consistency in the storytelling.
I'm not going to judge the complete product until it's finished, but I'm worried it's not going to clear up these inconsistencies....which I guess you can say is the "whole point of the show" in that miraculous things happen for no reason (departure), but to me that's a pretty damn lazy point to make, especially if you're going to spend 3 seasons on it. I would hope that the show has a greater point to make than that.
If we're going to believe that all of this stuff is happening in his head, and that there's no supernatural element to it whatsoever, then we have to somehow rationalize the fact he's survived multiple deaths. I mean...he got shot in the fucking chest.
If we are going to believe that he somehow could not die, despite the fact that everyone else can, then we are naturally going to look for meaning in that, other than the fact that he's just the main character in a show. If we cannot find meaning in that, then we can't find consistency in the storytelling.
I'm not going to judge the complete product until it's finished, but I'm worried it's not going to clear up these inconsistencies....which I guess you can say is the "whole point of the show" in that miraculous things happen for no reason (departure), but to me that's a pretty damn lazy point to make, especially if you're going to spend 3 seasons on it. I would hope that the show has a greater point to make than that.
Fluffhead14
Member
For the record, I don't think it was "all in his head", I think he went to some form of the afterlife. But I don't need an answer as to WHAT that exactly was other than it being "the place Kevin ran to because he couldn't deal with his life". It's being used to illuminate Kevin's character and relationships, not as a mystery or a specific plot point, other than how it played a part in Kevin understanding he needed to stop running from his life.
To me, that's satisfying.
To me, that's satisfying.