It's a dumb looking character design, but what are you talking about friendo?
PS - I say this as someone who deeply wants to chuck Peebee out the airlock if possible.
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The Mass Effect Community Thread
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It's a dumb looking character design, but what are you talking about friendo?
PS - I say this as someone who deeply wants to chuck Peebee out the airlock if possible.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I'd have to see other in-game Asari to formulate a complete opinion but so far the way they've designed the Asari body/facial structure in Frostbite compared to that of the models in Unreal Engine 3 hasn't meshed too well. The Turians, Krogan, and Salarians look very close to their UE3 counterparts but something remains off about the Asari (or at least just Pelessaria).
Hard to explain why but it's kind of 1 part uncanny valley and a 1 part deliberate attempt to make them more human (facial-wise).
Like the complaints about Sara and Scott I think Frostbite is mainly to blame.
Hard to explain why but it's kind of 1 part uncanny valley and a 1 part deliberate attempt to make them more human (facial-wise).
Like the complaints about Sara and Scott I think Frostbite is mainly to blame.
Wow lol
There are some in the first cinematic trailer.
They haven't changed really, they're just near-human so there's facial capture going on now.
DeadlyParasite
Member
Yeah, still think something looks off though. As Sou Da mentioned it could just be the way the faces look with facial capture.
I wonder what the game would've looked like if they just moved on to Unreal Engine 4.
I wonder what the game would've looked like if they just moved on to Unreal Engine 4.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's definitely not a Frostbite problem at all. Character models across the Battlefield series are consistently brilliant and very, very believable. They look superb for most part in Battlefront as well. Frostbite is perfectly capable of rendering realistic humanoids and skin shaders.
It's definitely a BioWare thing. I'm not overly concerned with the proportions, but they definitely seem off. I'm not sure if it's stylistically deliberate, or artist folly. It's evident in the humanoid faces too, which are a bit more cartoonish. Maybe intentional, maybe not if the current 3D artists working on the project aren't as skilled at realistic proportions.
I don't think this is why Peebee looks a little unusual though. To me that is a deliberate aesthetic choice. A vast majority of the Asari in the trilogy are modelled of a simple, conventional beauty standard. They're all very intentionally gorgeous with neat symmetrical facial structure. Part of this might be asset and engine limitations, while part is certainly artistic intention. With Andromeda they're working with a far, far more capable of engine, and combined with artistry results in more pronounced nuances realistic to an actual face that otherwise don't exist with the limited triangle count in the trilogy. Instead of just making a carbon copy of Liara and co, the team has put more effort into those little ridges, bumps, dimples, bone structure, and muscle/fat distribution that make up a real face.
Peebee actually looks pretty realistic, in terms of proportions, all things considered. Whether or not she's conventionally attractive and model-like is another matter entirely, but the divergence from this is assuredly deliberate to avoid the typical Gorgeous Sexbait Asari trope prevalent throughout the trilogy.
And I think this is actually really neat, and could potentially lead to a wider variety of faces among NPCs that are human and alien that share homo sapien facial conventions.
Odd proportions aside, what I will critique BioWare on based on all the footage so far are two things: skin shader and eyes. And I mean hair too, but I've given up on that one. Skin often doesn't look right, particularly on humans. Very plasticy and hard toned. Whatever they're using for subsurface scattering isn't implemented anywhere near as well as even the generic soldier characters across the Battlefield series. As for the eyes, purely from an animation standpoint they look...dead. It's a bit off putting. Maybe that's something they're still scrubbing up as we lead into release (stuff like this usually does come later), but they do seem oddly unfocused and expressionless in a lot of scenes. The Witcher 3, with all its animation jank, actually really excelled at putting that little bit of extra effort into the eyes and surrounding muscles. As the saying goes, eyes are the window to the soul. Well animated, convincing, and expression filled eye animations will make up leagues of deficiencies in other areas, even lip syncing. Hopefully the finished product shows a bit more energy there.
It's definitely a BioWare thing. I'm not overly concerned with the proportions, but they definitely seem off. I'm not sure if it's stylistically deliberate, or artist folly. It's evident in the humanoid faces too, which are a bit more cartoonish. Maybe intentional, maybe not if the current 3D artists working on the project aren't as skilled at realistic proportions.
I don't think this is why Peebee looks a little unusual though. To me that is a deliberate aesthetic choice. A vast majority of the Asari in the trilogy are modelled of a simple, conventional beauty standard. They're all very intentionally gorgeous with neat symmetrical facial structure. Part of this might be asset and engine limitations, while part is certainly artistic intention. With Andromeda they're working with a far, far more capable of engine, and combined with artistry results in more pronounced nuances realistic to an actual face that otherwise don't exist with the limited triangle count in the trilogy. Instead of just making a carbon copy of Liara and co, the team has put more effort into those little ridges, bumps, dimples, bone structure, and muscle/fat distribution that make up a real face.
Peebee actually looks pretty realistic, in terms of proportions, all things considered. Whether or not she's conventionally attractive and model-like is another matter entirely, but the divergence from this is assuredly deliberate to avoid the typical Gorgeous Sexbait Asari trope prevalent throughout the trilogy.
And I think this is actually really neat, and could potentially lead to a wider variety of faces among NPCs that are human and alien that share homo sapien facial conventions.
Odd proportions aside, what I will critique BioWare on based on all the footage so far are two things: skin shader and eyes. And I mean hair too, but I've given up on that one. Skin often doesn't look right, particularly on humans. Very plasticy and hard toned. Whatever they're using for subsurface scattering isn't implemented anywhere near as well as even the generic soldier characters across the Battlefield series. As for the eyes, purely from an animation standpoint they look...dead. It's a bit off putting. Maybe that's something they're still scrubbing up as we lead into release (stuff like this usually does come later), but they do seem oddly unfocused and expressionless in a lot of scenes. The Witcher 3, with all its animation jank, actually really excelled at putting that little bit of extra effort into the eyes and surrounding muscles. As the saying goes, eyes are the window to the soul. Well animated, convincing, and expression filled eye animations will make up leagues of deficiencies in other areas, even lip syncing. Hopefully the finished product shows a bit more energy there.
dr_rus
Member
Well, there are mods for Inquisition which remove this grease so it's certainly not an engine issue and more of an art choice.
DeadlyParasite
Member
No its definitely not a sexualization issue EatChildren. No one here is arguing for beautiful Asari. My complaint is that instead of looking like a distinct race as they did in the trilogy the Asari models to date look like messy amalgamations of LA Noire face-capture where neither ends of the spectrum are quite right and it's super distracting.
I shouldn't be looking at the image Killzig posted above and be immediately seeing a human face thats been painted over and ridges grafted on. You throw up a side-by-side comparison image of a human and an asari in Mass Effect 3 and the similarities begin and end with the fact that both have eyes, a nose, and a mouth.
The best way I could describe it is if someone was cosplaying an Asari poorly in-game. You don't see an Asari but rather a human face pretending to be one.
Maybe it'll appear less noticable after playing the game for a while, I dunno.
I shouldn't be looking at the image Killzig posted above and be immediately seeing a human face thats been painted over and ridges grafted on. You throw up a side-by-side comparison image of a human and an asari in Mass Effect 3 and the similarities begin and end with the fact that both have eyes, a nose, and a mouth.
The best way I could describe it is if someone was cosplaying an Asari poorly in-game. You don't see an Asari but rather a human face pretending to be one.
Maybe it'll appear less noticable after playing the game for a while, I dunno.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I gotta agree that PeeBee looks pretty good. She may not be to your taste on an aesthetic level ("wipe that shit off your face"), but she's excellently rendered and very realistically proportioned. Honestly, she's better done than the default Ryders, but I was always gonna customize them.
Peebee's skin doesn't have sort of scaly texture that Asari got in ME3, and doesn't seem to the sort of shininess that they had in ME1. I thought the ME3 look was the best, but since Asari skin has been changing around with every game I guess I can't really complain too much.
DevilDog
Member
Yeah. from a technical standpoint peebee as a model looks great. Definitely much better than the rest. Well, her and Liam.
As for the Asari in the OT, it was mostly a factor of technical constraints. Every single Asari was more or less the same face with different tatoos to distinguish them easily. Not only their faces, but their bodies as well. Same issue with DAO, where old ladies had the bods of supermodels.
I'm glad we're getting a different shape archetype this time around.
PeeBee is a welcome change
As for the Asari in the OT, it was mostly a factor of technical constraints. Every single Asari was more or less the same face with different tatoos to distinguish them easily. Not only their faces, but their bodies as well. Same issue with DAO, where old ladies had the bods of supermodels.
I'm glad we're getting a different shape archetype this time around.
PeeBee is a welcome change
technically
prag16
Banned
Did you read her bio and watch the video with her voice actress? Seems to run counter to these assumptions.
VenomousCoffee
Member
I realize I'm a few hours late on this, but this is just ... really bad. Dead-eyed stare, strange posture, proportions are off. And the guy looks like a scrawny dude with a tumor in his chest.
I'm a huge ME fan, and I want ME A to be great. But damn, man.
prag16
Banned
As somebody posted above, the blank stares and flat lighting don't do the models any favors in that shot. Other shots from the trailers, etc, look a lot better.
I'm also not quite seeing all these "the proportions are off!" comments. What's wrong? The heads too big? Maaaaaybe slightly. Otherwise I'm not really seeing it.
I'm also not quite seeing all these "the proportions are off!" comments. What's wrong? The heads too big? Maaaaaybe slightly. Otherwise I'm not really seeing it.
I don't think there are any particular problems with the models. I mean yeah, when you do a side-by-side comparison of Male Shepard to Scott Ryder then it's obviously going to look odd. I also don't think it's a fair comparison. These guys are like..what? 22-23 years old? Their armor is also a lot less bulky which makes sense because they aren't soldiers. I think that when you see it all in motion with all of the assets together it won't look so "off" to some people. Taking a model out of context, putting them in a borderline t-pose with flat lighting will do that. Besides, BioWare character models go for stylized version of "realism" anyway.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Space Vacuum eyes
I'm sorry but to me they look distinctly worse than the old Shepherd model. Like I said, they guy they have modelled Scott on is a) extremely attractive and b) has a very defined physique. The model above is just awful, and I don't know why they would put it out - it's got plastic hair, dead eyes, the body doesn't look right (is he inflating?) and honestlty just looks all round worse than models from years ago.
I'm not expecting Uncharted style graphics, and I'm hoping that it's just a bad shot they have used - but if so, why the hell would you use that shot?
JeffG
Member
so the cosplayers can start making their costumes
Heckler456
Banned
Once again I have to wonder what all the fuss is about.
Like... I've seen the game in motion, and the character models look perfectly fine in that. Why are we bellyaching about a screenshot in a cosplay character kit? Even the zoomed in face models in that same character kit look better than the screenshot I'm look at here.
Off-topic: Is gaf kinda lagging at the moment, or is that entirely on my end?
Like... I've seen the game in motion, and the character models look perfectly fine in that. Why are we bellyaching about a screenshot in a cosplay character kit? Even the zoomed in face models in that same character kit look better than the screenshot I'm look at here.
Off-topic: Is gaf kinda lagging at the moment, or is that entirely on my end?
Tertullian
Member
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be negative on this before it even comes out, but am I the only one that thinks these character heads are just...bad? I can't put my finger on it, but they look like some weird mix between a wax model and a pizza-place animatronic.
Scott's hair looks like plastic. And those eyes...they're just...wrong.
Damn, speaking as someone who thinks half the complaints about faces in this game are ridiculous or imaginary, this image looks really bad. I mean, flat lighting, sure, fine. But damn.
VenomousCoffee
Member
On the guy: his chest is the wrong shape for a human male, his abdomen and his spine meet at an angle that I've never seen before.
On the woman: her head is too far to the left relative to her shoulders, her abdomen is too far to the right relative to her chest (it's like she's a snake woman)
On both: their arms are not hanging at the right angle relative to their torsos (human arms rarely flare out below the elbow), and overall they are just swaybacked.
Heckler456
Banned
None of those things you mentioned are evident when looking at the full character kit.
Scott, Sara.
The guy looks like he has kind of a slender build. The effect you're talking about, with the "swaybacked" thing, are probably due to the fact that they're wearing breast/backplates.
As to the girl... She's doing one of those sassy stances. Do you really think they'd fuck up something as basic as the alignment of her head to her shoulders? When has that ever happened in a video game?
prag16
Banned
I don't know. I can stand like that right now. Shoulders back, chest out, back arched. Hell I used to work with a guy that thought he was big poppa pump or something and stood/walked like that ALL THE TIME.
If they are postured like that in game at all times it'll look goofy. But this is a screenshot from a cosplay character kit. We can relax. In motion none of this looks so goofy from what we've seen so far (barring the usual slightly "off" running animations).
But the guys face, eyes and hair still look terrible. The hair looks like as plastic poo, the eyes are dead, and the skin just isn't right at all. I just don't understand how you go from Steven Brewis (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...orJupVdf6kbsXGXjl7385hxw&ust=1486669528058576) to that!
Heckler456
Banned
In the picture, yeah. I don't see the same thing present in the gameplay release so far.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I mean, the image you posted just asserts my point. That looks like a human face. It should look like an entirely different races face.
Heckler456
Banned
Asari have always looked human? Isn't that like a lore thing too?
They have a REAL issue with shinyness. I don't know why, because it isn't present in other Frostbyte games, but the hair and lips in DA were ridiculously shiny, to an off-putting level, and it seems like we have the same here.
I don't understand why EA developed an in-house engine for all their games, but then clearly don't share learning between their studios on it.
prag16
Banned
...but Asaris have always had human-looking faces. Not sure what point you're making, unless you're just shitting on the overall original desigin of the Asari race in general, which is kind of a separate discussion from the one that's going on currently.
I think it's good they're having a nice laugh about it. They're just being silly.
:lol
DevilDog
Member
No fun allowed here.
Damn Shep looks good.
It's probably a reference shot without shaders/heavy lighting or complicated maps. That is why he looks like plastic.
Nothing like the in game gfx of course, apart from the poly model. Thats exactly the same.
This place is being super silly atm. And they're not even doing it ironically.
It's more of a poncho.
By the way I honestly like how honest this screenshot is. Like they clearly loaded up a save, jumped out the Nomad and rotated the camera slightly (not enough to get some of the guns off screen mind you) and captured the image.
Like Gamble may have genuinely took that picture just because someone asked instead of it being a planned social media thing.
DevilDog
Member
All you people care about it sex. You don't even want to investigate the traces and results of natural selection and alien evolution.
Jesus Christ that sounded like Liara
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