tea_and_crumpets
Member
Much has been made of the Last of Uss conclusion and the morality surrounding it. Although this topic has already been discussed a fair bit in the Last of Us Spoilers thread, I think a thread like this is helpful in allowing a more tightly focused discussion on wider moral issues raised in the game, as well as the superlative ending itself.
The Last of Us presents a post-apocalyptic world in which the moral norms which make up society have disappeared along with any stable order. The Last of Us presents a distinctly Hobbsian view of humanity without a clear sovereign and a situation of stability life becomes nasty, brutish and short. Kill or be killed replaces do unto others as you would have done to you.
The rights and liberties guaranteed to the American people under the United States Constitution have clearly been suspended or totally abandoned. People live in quarantined zones with a constant military presence. People can be subject to routine scans if it is possible they are infected. The infected are met with a quick death. Survival trumps concerns about rights and freedom. In a society where the fear of death is a constant, everyone is out for themselves or their group and the basis of social trust breaks down. The moral norms of society have changed.
Order has broken down and gangs are happy to simply kill others for anything useful they might have. Joel and Ellie are jumped by a gang, a member of which tries to lure them into a trap by pretending to be hurt and begging them for help. The gang is using peoples basic morality (help those in distress) to ruthlessly exploit anyone they might come across. Of course, Joel isnt fooled by the gang member, raising questions about what he has previously experienced (no doubt a similar situation) and how this has altered his morality. Here we clearly see how the survival type situation forces us to question what we would normally consider to be moral.
Beyond the general survivors morality which runs through the entire game we also have the father daughter relationship present throughout. The loss of Joels daughter in the games first chapter has real emotional resonance and its spelt out fairly clearly that this is a) a huge loss to Joel and b) that Ellie in time comes to fulfill the daughter role in Joels life.
Joel seems unable to come to terms with the loss of his daughter and is unwilling to talk about the loss of his daughter until very late in the game, and even then only briefly. Before this any mention of her is met with an immediate desire to drop the subject and to move on. Interestingly, after Ellie has run away, Joel explicitly says to her that she is not his daughter. This is fairly far into the game, and fairly notable because it is clear that Ellie is fitting very neatly into the absent role of Joels daughter.
By the games end though, there can be no doubt that Joel has replaced the hole created by the loss of his daughter with Ellie. We see Joel torture people in a brutal manner to find out where Ellie is, and his love for her is ultimately displayed in explaining his actions in denying humanity a potential cure. Here the player is presented with the moral contrast of the loving father daughter relationship built up over the course of the game and whether the loss of this new daughter is justified for the (potential?) cure for all humanity. This is the biggest moral question the game poses.
On a basic level it is the classic utilitarian vs individual rights dilemma. Is it right that the life on an innocent is sacrificed to save many other lives? In the games case this age old moral question is muddied by several other facts. Questions of consent (from Ellie), whether a cure was certain or not (and whether there had been other experiments) are all ambiguous?
The audiotape of the chief scientist (9:09 here) present in the penultimate hospital chapter demonstrates the importance of the research, saying were about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. This suggests that the cure is almost a certainty, as although he also mentions past cases Ellie is like nothing Ive ever seen. Marlene says to Joel that this is what Ellie would have wanted, and Ellies questioning of Joel seems to suggest she would be happy to die in order to save humanity, as she explains she has already been waiting a long time to die after the death of her friend. Joels bold faced lie to Ellie also raises further questions about his own morality and his actions.
In the Spoilers thread, OminpotentO made the case for Joel being in the wrong:
Jest Chillin puts the opposing case:
This has to be right. There is a lot to like about Joel as well as him having disagreeable elements, and a lot of times doing what we would see as the right thing would have ended in his and Ellies death. Joel is a morally grey character, this is what makes him interesting. As for Joels biggest moral choice, clearly some people saw going back for Ellie as the right thing to do, humanity be damned. The ending is well done because clearly people can take sides: Team Marlene or Team Joel?
My own view is that Joel is clearly wrong, acting for understandable, but entirely selfish reasons he wants to replace his lost daughter. Ultimately, the chance for a cure for all humanity, billions of people, is just such a large moral good, that the death of one teenage girl is in my view a very small sacrifice. Clearly others will disagree, but thats the point.
The Last of Us presents a post-apocalyptic world in which the moral norms which make up society have disappeared along with any stable order. The Last of Us presents a distinctly Hobbsian view of humanity without a clear sovereign and a situation of stability life becomes nasty, brutish and short. Kill or be killed replaces do unto others as you would have done to you.
The rights and liberties guaranteed to the American people under the United States Constitution have clearly been suspended or totally abandoned. People live in quarantined zones with a constant military presence. People can be subject to routine scans if it is possible they are infected. The infected are met with a quick death. Survival trumps concerns about rights and freedom. In a society where the fear of death is a constant, everyone is out for themselves or their group and the basis of social trust breaks down. The moral norms of society have changed.
Order has broken down and gangs are happy to simply kill others for anything useful they might have. Joel and Ellie are jumped by a gang, a member of which tries to lure them into a trap by pretending to be hurt and begging them for help. The gang is using peoples basic morality (help those in distress) to ruthlessly exploit anyone they might come across. Of course, Joel isnt fooled by the gang member, raising questions about what he has previously experienced (no doubt a similar situation) and how this has altered his morality. Here we clearly see how the survival type situation forces us to question what we would normally consider to be moral.
Beyond the general survivors morality which runs through the entire game we also have the father daughter relationship present throughout. The loss of Joels daughter in the games first chapter has real emotional resonance and its spelt out fairly clearly that this is a) a huge loss to Joel and b) that Ellie in time comes to fulfill the daughter role in Joels life.
Joel seems unable to come to terms with the loss of his daughter and is unwilling to talk about the loss of his daughter until very late in the game, and even then only briefly. Before this any mention of her is met with an immediate desire to drop the subject and to move on. Interestingly, after Ellie has run away, Joel explicitly says to her that she is not his daughter. This is fairly far into the game, and fairly notable because it is clear that Ellie is fitting very neatly into the absent role of Joels daughter.
By the games end though, there can be no doubt that Joel has replaced the hole created by the loss of his daughter with Ellie. We see Joel torture people in a brutal manner to find out where Ellie is, and his love for her is ultimately displayed in explaining his actions in denying humanity a potential cure. Here the player is presented with the moral contrast of the loving father daughter relationship built up over the course of the game and whether the loss of this new daughter is justified for the (potential?) cure for all humanity. This is the biggest moral question the game poses.
On a basic level it is the classic utilitarian vs individual rights dilemma. Is it right that the life on an innocent is sacrificed to save many other lives? In the games case this age old moral question is muddied by several other facts. Questions of consent (from Ellie), whether a cure was certain or not (and whether there had been other experiments) are all ambiguous?
The audiotape of the chief scientist (9:09 here) present in the penultimate hospital chapter demonstrates the importance of the research, saying were about to hit a milestone in human history equal to the discovery of penicillin. This suggests that the cure is almost a certainty, as although he also mentions past cases Ellie is like nothing Ive ever seen. Marlene says to Joel that this is what Ellie would have wanted, and Ellies questioning of Joel seems to suggest she would be happy to die in order to save humanity, as she explains she has already been waiting a long time to die after the death of her friend. Joels bold faced lie to Ellie also raises further questions about his own morality and his actions.
In the Spoilers thread, OminpotentO made the case for Joel being in the wrong:
Throughout the game we only see Joel as sort of a nice guy but if you pay attention to some of the dialogue and certain actions you can clearly see that Joel is a fucking scumbag. Makes me question his reasons for saving Ellie at the end.
From the very beginning. Remember when he left behind that family Tommy wanted to help out during the drive sequence. When Ellie asks Joel about the ambush: "so... you kill a lot of innocent people?" then Joel just gives like a grunt/sigh and Ellie responds with "I'll take that as a yes." "take it however you want." Bill telling Joel "it's real people that scare me. You of all people should understand that."
The whole reason Tommy left Joel. Probably shortly after the outbreak: "all those goddamn years I took care of us" "that's what you call it? I got nothing but nightmares from those years." "you survived because of me!" "wasn't worth it."
How easily he tortures and murders people.
Joel is a fucking monster.
Jest Chillin puts the opposing case:
I don't know if Joel really is a monster. Clearly a lot of the things that he's done weigh heavily on his soul but from the beginning with he leaves that family all the way to the end when he lies to Ellie, he's suited for that world because he does whatever is necessary for those he cares for to survive. It's a clear theme throughout the game that everyone who is still alive has survived because they've put their desires first. Every grisly act committed by every character isn't done because they're inherently evil but because it's necessary to do to survive. Fireflies, Hunters, Military.. everyone. They really bring this home in Colorado when you discover that the people who attacked Joel and Ellie at the college are doing so to feed and support their loved ones in the town.
This has to be right. There is a lot to like about Joel as well as him having disagreeable elements, and a lot of times doing what we would see as the right thing would have ended in his and Ellies death. Joel is a morally grey character, this is what makes him interesting. As for Joels biggest moral choice, clearly some people saw going back for Ellie as the right thing to do, humanity be damned. The ending is well done because clearly people can take sides: Team Marlene or Team Joel?
My own view is that Joel is clearly wrong, acting for understandable, but entirely selfish reasons he wants to replace his lost daughter. Ultimately, the chance for a cure for all humanity, billions of people, is just such a large moral good, that the death of one teenage girl is in my view a very small sacrifice. Clearly others will disagree, but thats the point.