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The more I go back to XCOM 2, the more it cements as one of my all-time favorites

Self

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Maybe someone who played one of these versions will chime in to comment on that.

The PS4/XOne versions were shit at launch and stabilized through later updates. Loading times were also insane. But... on PS5 it now runs flawlessly. Loading times are much better and the game never crashed so far.

I loved the game when it released, but it can be very confusing. The game throws so much at the player.
Every 5 minutes a new mechanic, a new threat etc. I never played though the whole game though. Somewhere in the middle it gets repetitive. Great game nevertheless.
 

luffie

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I agree. XCOM 2 is one of the best turn-based strategy games ever made. The only thing I really want is for XCOM 3 to be a remake of Terror from the Deep because I do like the Cthlulhu-style under water setting more than space aliens.
You might want to try Othercide. It's eay less polished than Xcom2 due to the size of the team and budget, but for what it is, it's pretty neat. It has Bloodborne-esque feel to it, and bloody difficult.
Just get it on sale, as the amount of content doesn't warrant full price.
I’m anticipating it like no other game on the horizon, but I think if XCOM 3 would turn out to be a big disappointment I may actually end up GRIEVING over that shit.
They could just go Cthulhu/gothic setting, similar mechanics, and I will drool all over it.

But I'm curious if these kind of squad turn based game actually sell well. Xcom2 never released their sales number, and judging that is is the MOST popular one yet, the reception towards this genre doesn't seem to enticing in for developers.
 
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Hnjohngalt

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Switch version is smooth. Load times suck but much better than launch ps4. I have this game on pc, ps4, and switch. I actually play on switch more now.
 
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Sentenza

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You might want to try Othercide. It's eay less polished than Xcom2 due to the size of the team and budget, but for what it is, it's pretty neat. It has Bloodborne-esque feel to it, and bloody difficult.
Just get it on sale, as the amount of content doesn't warrant full price.

They could just go Cthulhu/gothic setting, similar mechanics, and I will drool all over it.

But I'm curious if these kind of squad turn based game actually sell well. Xcom2 never released their sales number, and judging that is is the MOST popular one yet, the reception towards this genre doesn't seem to enticing in for developers.
The first XCOM was over three million copies on Steam when the second was coming out, while both console versions combined didn’t get to 300k.

Which is why the sequel was announced (and remained for several months) a complete PC exclusive.

I don’t remember reading formal numbers for the sequel but as far as I’ve heard it was general consensus that it surpassed the first in popularity by a wide margin.
 
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Shadowstar39

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Great game, but if you are going to buy it just spurge for the $20 and get the collection as it is well worth it. All the dlcs are beefy and 1 major expansion.
I own it now on pc , ps4 (which is broken) and switch.
 
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The Hamburglar

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It’s a great game with wotc but I’ve always found it overly difficult. Once you past the first lot of scripted missions where you meet the chosen. The difficult ramps up .

You end up on missions against super powered soldiers and monsters while all you have is basic shit cos stuff has died or in sick bay. Every time I’ve played it, I’ve ended up using cheats lol.

Which is annoying because I’m generally good at games and always play on the harder difficulties.
 

Sentenza

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It’s a great game with wotc but I’ve always found it overly difficult. Once you past the first lot of scripted missions where you meet the chosen. The difficult ramps up .

You end up on missions against super powered soldiers and monsters while all you have is basic shit cos stuff has died or in sick bay. Every time I’ve played it, I’ve ended up using cheats lol.

Which is annoying because I’m generally good at games and always play on the harder difficulties.
It's the other way around.
The very first missions where you go around just with rookies and squaddies are by far the most challenging ones and those where you are left more at the mercy of dice rolls.
After that point if you know what you are doing it becomes smooth sailing and the more you get into the late game, the more the power creep becomes a factor in your favor.
 
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Rikkori

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It's without a doubt one of the all time greats.
Really wonder if they can repeat the performance with Xcom 3, because I liked Chimera Squad a lot but the voice acting and dialogue completely fucked it up so it's unplayable if I don't mute it. The key people are all still there so here's hoping.
 
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Twinguistics

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I think it's on sale now on steam for under £5. I might bite but I'm not really playing non-vr games at the moment. Still, I might add it to my backlog.
 
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It's one of the best TRPG ever BUT damn it Fraxis who did you hire to port the games to consoles? The loading time are unbearable! The game is buggy and runs under 25 FPS most of the time and even though it looks good it's not THAT GOOD! Was it CPU limitations? Or just incompetence from the devs? I finished the original game on Normal and loved it on PS4 in 2019, i started WOTC on Commander back in September but i had to stop even though i was having so much fun because the loading was unbearable especially when I need to reload a save so i don't lose my Ace Jane "cookie" Kelly! If there's a game that need the PS5 "enhancement™" it's XCOM2 unfortunately no one has done a video or tested it on PS5.

I'd be down to pay 40$ for a complete remastered game with fast loading and less bugs and FPS issues on next gen.
 

Rentahamster

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It's one of the best TRPG ever BUT damn it Fraxis who did you hire to port the games to consoles? The loading time are unbearable! The game is buggy and runs under 25 FPS most of the time and even though it looks good it's not THAT GOOD! Was it CPU limitations? Or just incompetence from the devs? I finished the original game on Normal and loved it on PS4 in 2019, i started WOTC on Commander back in September but i had to stop even though i was having so much fun because the loading was unbearable especially when I need to reload a save so i don't lose my Ace Jane "cookie" Kelly! If there's a game that need the PS5 "enhancement™" it's XCOM2 unfortunately no one has done a video or tested it on PS5.

I'd be down to pay 40$ for a complete remastered game with fast loading and less bugs and FPS issues on next gen.
A previous post said they played it on PS5 and it ran pretty well.
 
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Serianox

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XCOM 2 is a fantastic game and it surprised how much i liked it and played it from start to finish without losing interest since i tried several times to get into Enemy Unknown and i'd just bounce off it midway through the campaign. I know a lot of people complained about the timers during missions and the overworld but I never had time issues with the first and the second you quickly learn that it doesn't really matter since you can easily manipulate it into your favor.
It's one of the best TRPG ever BUT damn it Fraxis who did you hire to port the games to consoles? The loading time are unbearable! The game is buggy and runs under 25 FPS most of the time and even though it looks good it's not THAT GOOD! Was it CPU limitations? Or just incompetence from the devs? I finished the original game on Normal and loved it on PS4 in 2019, i started WOTC on Commander back in September but i had to stop even though i was having so much fun because the loading was unbearable especially when I need to reload a save so i don't lose my Ace Jane "cookie" Kelly! If there's a game that need the PS5 "enhancement™" it's XCOM2 unfortunately no one has done a video or tested it on PS5.

I'd be down to pay 40$ for a complete remastered game with fast loading and less bugs and FPS issues on next gen.
It's pretty much just how the game is since performance was kind of bad for the inicial pc release but that got better when they released the expansion.
 
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I have yet to try it, but I'm more than a bit wary of it because I thought "vanilla" Long War 2 was absolutely garbage the last time I tried it.
Main reason why I added it as soon as it was out is that I like to prolong my time with games that I really like. They don't come across often enough.
 

Sentenza

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Incidentally Jake Solomon shared just yesterday on twitter his original pitch for an UFO/XCOM remake in 2005:



EDIT: 5th anniversary, super-sale at 92% discount, SOlomon posting this... I wonder if an announcement may closer than we imagine.
...Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws and that's wishful thinking, which is entirely possible.
 
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JayK47

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I'm not sure what specifically made you hate it, but you're missing out.
It was brutal, even on easy. Losing squadmates every battle. Losing battles. Being outmatched and outgunned every single time. And since you lose you squadmates, there is no chance to catch up when every soldier is a new recruit. I also remember that I suddenly could not keep anybody happy and the world was constantly pissed off at me. The original game was difficult enough on normal and I was able to keep most soldiers alive so I could level them up while also beating objectives and appeasing the world leaders. It went from fun to frustrating with the DLC. I tried it twice and had to quit since I saw no path forward. Clearly I was "playing it wrong". Yet I was playing the base version just fine. If I have to play the game following some game guide the whole way just to get through it, why even bother? May as well just watch a youtube video and not play it.
 
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Sentenza

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It was brutal, even on easy. Losing squadmates every battle. Losing battles. Being outmatched and outgunned every single time. And since you lose you squadmates, there is no chance to catch up when every soldier is a new recruit. I also remember that I suddenly could not keep anybody happy and the world was constantly pissed off at me. The original game was difficult enough on normal and I was able to keep most soldiers alive so I could level them up while also beating objectives and appeasing the world leaders. It went from fun to frustrating with the DLC. I tried it twice and had to quit since I saw no path forward. Clearly I was "playing it wrong". Yet I was playing the base version just fine. If I have to play the game following some game guide the whole way just to get through it, why even bother? May as well just watch a youtube video and not play it.
Oh, so it's just one of these "git gud" stories about people complaining that they can't do things. I thought there was something else.

Can't say I remembered Enemy Within being particularly harder than the vanilla game, by the way.
 

Rentahamster

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EDIT: 5th anniversary, super-sale at 92% discount, SOlomon posting this... I wonder if an announcement may closer than we imagine.
...Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws and that's wishful thinking, which is entirely possible.
Shit I hope so. I want me some raytraced alien face punching goodness.
 

Perrott

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I've played XCOM 2 (without War of the Chosen) for about 10 hours on PS4 but the learning curve was a bitch for new players like me. When something didn't turn out as planned I felt like it was because the game was being unfair and too random, instead of because of some visible mistake that I made a couple of turns ago - which is what I like about Into the Bridge for instance.
 
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King_Mandu

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It's a brilliant game through and through. I like the changes like Concealment and even the timers, which seemed to have been very unpopular. The timers felt fitting to me, pushed the pace and was a lot more fun than Overwatch turtling.

Not XCOM2 but this is still my favorite video game review of all time.

 
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I liked the game but I got a bug where the enemies wouldn’t attack at all and I didn’t want to start over so I just put the game down after that.
 

shubik

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I feel like I´m simply too stupid for this type of game... I tried several games with turned based strategy combat like XCOM2 and Wasteland 3 but I get obliterated all the time. I just don´t get how to play such games... It sucks because they look cool and every time I read or see a video of such a game I want to jump back in. Really frustrating experience (at least for me).
 

Sentenza

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I feel like I´m simply too stupid for this type of game... I tried several games with turned based strategy combat like XCOM2 and Wasteland 3 but I get obliterated all the time. I just don´t get how to play such games... It sucks because they look cool and every time I read or see a video of such a game I want to jump back in. Really frustrating experience (at least for me).
That means simply that you need to understand the mechanics better. Doesn't it?
Try to watch some people play or listen to a couple of Youtube tutorial and you should have at very least the amount of knowledge necessary to dip into the early missions. Which aren't really complex enough to require a tactical genius to figure put.
The rest is just experience and ability to learn how to weight your options as they will grow in number over time.
 

TBiddy

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I want to play this game, but every time I'm looking at it, I get reminded about the "timers" on certain missions. I hate that, and it completely turns me off. It's a shame, since the original XCOM game was one of my favs.
 

Sentenza

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I want to play this game, but every time I'm looking at it, I get reminded about the "timers" on certain missions. I hate that, and it completely turns me off. It's a shame, since the original XCOM game was one of my favs.
You are making an excuse.
You didn't even play the game and you are already complaining about one of its features ON PRINCIPLE, which is ridiculous, because you don't have the finger on the pulse about how it actually works.

"Timers" aren't even real timers. You could spend days thinking your moves between turns. It's just a limit to the numbers of turns you can spend to reach certain optional objectives.
And it tends to be a fairly forgiving limit at that, too. I never ever lost a mission because of a "timer".
I've been occasionally forced to keep a brisk pace, on the other hand. Which made the mission more enjoyable more than anything.

Beside, they are trivially easy to disable entirely. Both with mods and (since WoTC) with a freely available in-game option at the start of the campaign. Which is a terrible idea, because they actually make the game better. But still, an option.
 
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shubik

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That means simply that you need to understand the mechanics better. Doesn't it?
Try to watch some people play or listen to a couple of Youtube tutorial and you should have at very least the amount of knowledge necessary to dip into the early missions. Which aren't really complex enough to require a tactical genius to figure put.
The rest is just experience and ability to learn how to weight your options as they will grow in number over time.


Sure you are probably right. But usually, videogames for me are a "feel good" type of activity. I don´t want to "work" for it just to be able to play them. The last game I really put in some time to understand was probably Civ 6. Maybe I give it one more go while I´m in lockdown. Do you have by any chance a YouTuber you would recommend for xcom?
 
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TBiddy

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You are making an excuse.
You didn't even play the game and you are already complaining about one of its features ON PRINCIPLE, which is ridiculous, because you don't have the finger on the pulse about how it actually works.

"Timers" aren't even real timers. You could spend days thinking your moves between turns. It's just a limit to the numbers of turns you can spend to reach certain optional objectives.
And it tends to be a fairly forgiving limit at that, too. I never ever lost a mission because of a "timer".
I've been occasionally forced to keep a brisk pace, on the other hand. Which made the mission more enjoyable more than anything.

Beside, they are trivially easy to disable entirely. Both with mods and (since WoTC) with a freely available in-game option at the start of the campaign. Which is a terrible idea, because they actually make the game better. But still, an option.

No need to get aggressive. It's not an excuse. I hate the concept of having limited turns and/or time to complete a given mission.

I wasn't aware they made it available to change, outside of modding. I'll check it out then!
 
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Bragr

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Waaay to difficult, unless you are a super hardcore fan it throws you off. Putting those alien mind control RNG creatures in the first level is absurd. I love Enemy Unknown but 2 was dissapointing.

It's like if they made Call of Duty but you die from one shot, so only the hardcore fans bother putting up with it.
 

Sentenza

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Sure you are probably right. But usually, videogames for me are a "feel good" type of activity. I don´t want to "work" for it just to be able to play them. The last game I really put in some time to understand was probably Civ 6. Maybe I give it one more go while I´m in lockdown. Do you have by any chance a YouTuber you would recommend for xcom?
I already posted a bunch.

No need to get aggressive. It's not an excuse. I hate the concept of having limited turns and/or time to complete a given mission.

I wasn't aware they made it available to change, outside of modding. I'll check it out then!
It's not about "getting aggressive", I'm pointing out that "I won't play it because that COMPLETELY OPTIONAL feature that I never actually gave a fair chance to is bad" is a ridiculous take.
Because: 1) it isn't "bad" in the slightest. It makes the game better 2) You never tried, so commenting on its quality or fairness doesn't make much sense 3) It's optional.
 
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TBiddy

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You know what, Sentenza Sentenza . I enjoyed reading your thread, and it's a pleasure when someone is clearly having a great time with a game and wants to recommend it to others, but I don't need to defend my opinion about limiting time and/or turns. I'm glad they came to their senses and decided to allow players to disable it.

Enjoy your day.
 
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TheContact

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i loved xcom 1 but i think i just sucked at 2. my soldiers kept getting mind controlled and it became too frustrating so i just stopped playing =\ i probably should give it another chance
 

Sentenza

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Waaay to difficult, unless you are a super hardcore fan it throws you off. Putting those alien mind control RNG creatures in the first level is absurd. I love Enemy Unknown but 2 was dissapointing.

It's like if they made Call of Duty but you die from one shot, so only the hardcore fans bother putting up with it.
It's a turn-based tactical game. It doesn't require hours of hand-eye coordination training, so the notion of "getting hardcore" seems a bit of an overkill.
It just requires from the player to understand what he's doing and plan his move accordingly.

Also, the mind-control aliens aren't in the first mission unless you are playing at the hardest difficulty (and why you should, if you are not good enough at the game?) and incidentally they are generally considered a fairly minor threat.
In fact, the mind-controlling alien (Sectoid) is a low priority target. Because if you get rid of all the other soldiers in the pod, getting rid of him in the subsequent turn becomes trivial.


I said it in the OP as well. This is NOT a game where you go far relying on "RNG" and lucky rolls. Every time you are relying on a lucky chance you are already setting yourself for failure.
 

Bragr

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It's a turn-based tactical game. It doesn't require hours of hand-eye coordination training, so the notion of "getting hardcore" seems a bit of an overkill.
It just requires from the player to understand what he's doing and plan his move accordingly.

Also, the mind-control aliens aren't in the first mission unless you are playing at the hardest difficulty (and why you should, if you are not good enough at the game?) and incidentally they are generally considered a fairly minor threat.
In fact, the mind-controlling alien (Sectoid) is a low priority target. Because if you get rid of all the other soldiers in the pod, getting rid of him in the subsequent turn becomes trivial.


I said it in the OP as well. This is NOT a game where you go far relying on "RNG" and lucky rolls. Every time you are relying on a lucky chance you are already setting yourself for failure.
Well, you gotta factor in that you love this game to an absurd extent, one thing is playing through it once or twice, but 20 times is an obsession.

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but after the tutorial, I seem to remember coming across the mindfucker on normal, and sure there are tactics to beat him, but it requires restarts of the level and learning the tactics. That enemy is pure RNG unless you play the game to death and learn the ins and outs. No one is gonna study YouTube videos before they play a game, so it becomes trial and error. And with XCOM's brand of progression, perma-death and base building for new abilities and weapons, it's easy to lose too many guys or build the wrong base set-up, and I ended up having to restart levels and sometimes the entire game. I felt the Enemy Unknown was on point but this was too ambitious.

That said, it plays extremely well and it's very polished and slick, I can certainly see how plenty of people would love it, but I think a large amount of the people who bought this was frustrated.
 

Rentahamster

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Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but after the tutorial, I seem to remember coming across the mindfucker on normal
You are. It only appears on the first mission on the hardest difficulty. On normal its first appearance is on the second mission I think.

sure there are tactics to beat him, but it requires restarts of the level and learning the tactics. That enemy is pure RNG unless you play the game to death and learn the ins and outs.
It doesn't really require a reset. They're not that hard on easy or normal difficulty. It's not RNG, its AI routine always does the same predictable thing, and you can use that to your advantage by learning which enemies to kill first in priority.
 
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Sentenza

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Well, you gotta factor in that you love this game to an absurd extent, one thing is playing through it once or twice, but 20 times is an obsession.
It's a very replayable game by nature.
it's not more of an "obsession" that replaying chess several times.

Also, you are missing the point. I'm not asking you to do anything, just stressing as a matter of fact that the "unfairness" is completely manageable.
The enemy is also not "completely RNG", as like most of the enemies in the game it tends to have a very predictable behavior according to the context.
You aren't familiar enough with it? Fair enough. It doesn't mean the game doesn't give you the tools to keep the treat at bay.

Also, at any moment you can reaload a previous save (the game is even kind enough to make an autosave for you at the start of every turn, unless for some masochistic reason you are playing on Ironman mode as a complete newbie) and try something different.
What more would you need to make the game "fair" and manageable? A pop-in telling you what action to do at every move?
Or enemies giving up on life and posing as a Four Of Spades in the middle of the local square, so that their threat level could be considered approachable even by a new player?
 
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Bragr

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You are. It only appears on the first mission on the hardest difficulty. On normal its first appearance is on the second mission I think.


It doesn't really require a reset. They're not that hard on easy or normal difficulty. It's not RNG, its AI routine always does the same predictable thing, and you can use that to your advantage by learning which enemies to kill first in priority.
I played on normal at launch, I'm not sure if they changed something after complaints. Searched for it and these guys apparently ran into him early too:
You need to learn what the same predictable thing is though, of course, it becomes routine once you know it, but the first time you play the game, you end up running into one of these fuckers, they mindfuck your best guy and he proceeds to wipe half your squad.

In my first playthrough I got a decent way into the game, but some bullshit mindfuck guy popped up in a mission and messed it all up and I lost all my best guys in a few minutes. I had no chance to progress with weak guys at that point and ended up restarting the entire game. It felt so damn cheap. At least in Enemy Unknown, I felt like I was strategically beat if I lost, XCOM 2 however, I felt cheated. I still enjoyed 90% of my time with the game but jesus christ the balance of this game is wacky.
 

Rentahamster

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I played on normal at launch, I'm not sure if they changed something after complaints. Searched for it and these guys apparently ran into him early too:
You need to learn what the same predictable thing is though, of course, it becomes routine once you know it, but the first time you play the game, you end up running into one of these fuckers, they mindfuck your best guy and he proceeds to wipe half your squad.

In my first playthrough I got a decent way into the game, but some bullshit mindfuck guy popped up in a mission and messed it all up and I lost all my best guys in a few minutes. I had no chance to progress with weak guys at that point and ended up restarting the entire game. It felt so damn cheap. At least in Enemy Unknown, I felt like I was strategically beat if I lost, XCOM 2 however, I felt cheated. I still enjoyed 90% of my time with the game but jesus christ the balance of this game is wacky.
"First mission after the tutorial", which would be the second mission.

The odds that your first sectoid encounter wipes half your squad is really quite low. They're usually going to resurrect zombie before they attempt mind control, and even if they do, on easy or normal difficulty their psi strength isn't that high, so it's not a game ending threat (the majority of the time).

Squad wipes are unfortunate, and can happen. There are a lot of ways to replenish your troops, though. You just gotta stick with it and tough it out, or take what you've learned and start over better, stronger, with more knowledge. I realize this gameplay loop can be frustrating to a subset of players, so I don't blame you for that.

What you are missing, however, is that the balance is not wacky. It's not "unfair" or "less strategic" compared to the first game. RNG is present, but it's entirely manageable if you plan your actions accordingly. The trap many players fall into is that they can bet all their YOLO moves on a less than guaranteed chance. If the success or failure of a mission requires you to make sure that Bob the alien is dead, and you use a series of actions that only gives you a 80% chance of success, there's going to be 2 missions out of 10 where you completely fuck it all up because you chose to roll the dice.

A good player knows how to mitigate the RNG and choose a series of actions that will get the percent as close to 100% as possible for the situations that are a matter of life or death.
 

Bragr

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It's a very replayable game by nature.
it's not more of an "obsession" that replaying chess several times.

Also, you are missing the point. I'm not asking you to do anything, just stressing as a matter of fact that the "unfairness" is completely manageable.
The enemy is also not "completely RNG", as like most of the enemies in the game it tends to have a very predictable behavior according to the context.
You aren't familiar enough with it? Fair enough. It doesn't mean the game doesn't give you the tools to keep the treat at bay.

Also, at any moment you can reaload a previous save (the game is even kind enough to make an autosave for you at the start of every turn, unless for some masochistic reason you are playing on Ironman mode as a complete newbie) and try something different.
What more would you need to make the game "fair" and manageable? A pop-in telling you what action to do at every move?
Or enemies giving up on life and posing as a Four Of Spades in the middle of the local square, so that their threat level could be considered approachable even by a new player?
It is very replayable, I'm just saying, you have a very deep like for this game that might overshadow your logic a bit here.

Very few things are true RNG, but if it takes a long time to figure it out, it might as well not matter. Tons of people have pointed this out, it's not some out of the blue criticism I spun from nothing. The game gives you the tools but does a poor job of teaching them.

XCOM is XCOM, just like Fire Emblem is Fire Emblem, it's supposed to be perma. I can never play these games with reloading saves. I'm not a complete noob, I played a lot of Enemy Unknown and Enemy Within, old school XCOM and plenty of turn-based strategy games through the years, I never play these games with save scumming, it destroys the game for me. And I expected XCOM 2 to be balanced to that playstyle like the other games were, but it's not. That's ultimately the problem here.

And keep your sly demeaning comments to yourself, XCOM 2 is a very hard game, I feel that Enemy Unknown was better structured and balanced, that's all I'm saying. And that the mindfuck aliens should never exist, like the eavesdropping missions in Assassins Creed they just suck.