CapnAmaricrunch
Banned
I cant wait for my r300 to arrive 
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The NeoGAF Open Handheld Thread
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
CamHostage
Member
This isn't about any specific Open Handheld device, more a general note, but...
Anybody who has been interested in PS2 emulation has probably found the offerings out there on Android to be depressing, thanks to some weird conditions of applications (there were only I think two Android PS2 emus, which were for pay and used open-source services improperly and had some murky advertising/spyware concerns and never ran well enough to bother with even after making money...) Things are about to change. At last, there's a group doing a free emulator and doing it right (hopefully).
A new emulator called AetherSX2 is in an alpha state and on Github. Performance of PS2 on a mobile device will still be hit-or-miss (PS2 is a mutha to emulate because of how hard to custom-crunched solutions on its peculiar hardware that Xbox and Cube used more modern methods to pull off, even though the software generation is now so far back and the poly count/texturing seems like it'd be easy on even mobile hardware.) However, it is built for Vulkan/OpenGL standards, and it has a number of customizable features to it such as underclocking (which sounds bad but actually could help in ROMs that don't run full-speed have more playability) and framerate unlocking, and should improve as the app evolves and some specific game-by-game settings files are built for use.
Note when you are watching this video: this is NOT a full-speed, all-out showcase of the emulator running great on high-end phones. You will not click on this and go, "WHOA, it's perfect!" This video is intentionally showing PS2 ROM performance on a range of devices and under a variety of settings, so some games look like they're running in milk (and maybe they will on your device) and also the framerate counter is obviously no longer an indicator, but watch the Underclocking section and also take notice of the devices used in each section (towards the end Taki runs some beefy games on a Red Magic 6S Pro... games still aren't perfect, but these are stock conditions, not tuned for the ROM) to understand what you're watching.
My take is, PS2 is still going to hurt sometimes on these mobile devices, but this is a promising, more properly sourced, and hopefully playable release of PS2 emulation on Android.
Anybody who has been interested in PS2 emulation has probably found the offerings out there on Android to be depressing, thanks to some weird conditions of applications (there were only I think two Android PS2 emus, which were for pay and used open-source services improperly and had some murky advertising/spyware concerns and never ran well enough to bother with even after making money...) Things are about to change. At last, there's a group doing a free emulator and doing it right (hopefully).
A new emulator called AetherSX2 is in an alpha state and on Github. Performance of PS2 on a mobile device will still be hit-or-miss (PS2 is a mutha to emulate because of how hard to custom-crunched solutions on its peculiar hardware that Xbox and Cube used more modern methods to pull off, even though the software generation is now so far back and the poly count/texturing seems like it'd be easy on even mobile hardware.) However, it is built for Vulkan/OpenGL standards, and it has a number of customizable features to it such as underclocking (which sounds bad but actually could help in ROMs that don't run full-speed have more playability) and framerate unlocking, and should improve as the app evolves and some specific game-by-game settings files are built for use.
Note when you are watching this video: this is NOT a full-speed, all-out showcase of the emulator running great on high-end phones. You will not click on this and go, "WHOA, it's perfect!" This video is intentionally showing PS2 ROM performance on a range of devices and under a variety of settings, so some games look like they're running in milk (and maybe they will on your device) and also the framerate counter is obviously no longer an indicator, but watch the Underclocking section and also take notice of the devices used in each section (towards the end Taki runs some beefy games on a Red Magic 6S Pro... games still aren't perfect, but these are stock conditions, not tuned for the ROM) to understand what you're watching.
My take is, PS2 is still going to hurt sometimes on these mobile devices, but this is a promising, more properly sourced, and hopefully playable release of PS2 emulation on Android.
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CapnAmaricrunch
Banned
been using the r300 all day today, i can wholeheartedly recommend, the best use for it is as a gba!
Bullet Club
Member
The A20 is an improved portrait-style handheld from PowKiddy based on the design of the Retroid Pocket 1. This new device comes with a more powerful processor, extra controls, and better specs.
Specs CPU: Amlogic S905D3
GPU: Mali G31 MP2
RAM: 2GB LPDDR4
Storage: 8GB
Battery: 3,000 mAh
Display: 3.5 inch IPS 640x480
Network: Wi-Fi 5 / BT 5.0
OS: Android 9
Bullet Club
Member
Bullet Club
Member
Honey Bunny
Member
The GBA form factor is superior. Let it be known.
Bullet Club
Member
CrikeyGeno
Banned
I ordered a Retroid 2+ today. Was tossing up between this and RG351V.
The Retroid 2+ is obviously more powerful but the RG351V has better build and screen quality so it was a tough choice but ended up going with the more powerful handheld so I can dick around with DC emulation.
The Retroid 2+ is obviously more powerful but the RG351V has better build and screen quality so it was a tough choice but ended up going with the more powerful handheld so I can dick around with DC emulation.
Bullet Club
Member
The Retroid 2+ is the one I'll probably get as well. Good form factor, decent power, nice screen ratio.
Bullet Club
Member
Bullet Club
Member
CrikeyGeno
Banned
The Odin Pro looks incredible, I'm ordering a black one asap. Still waiting for my Retroid 2+ and Miyoo Mini to arrive as well.
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Bullet Club
Member
Bullet Club
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Bullet Club
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MonkeyClaw36
Member
I had on of these, not the +, but the normal one. Build quality is shit, screen is bland and the double OS part is a pain....
Yeah I had it running in like 10 minutes, but adding games one by one via some menus was a BIG turnoff for me, along with the above.
Bullet Club
Member
Rodolink
Member
I actually like the design of this one, feels like late 90s - 2000s ergonomics.
Bullet Club
Member
NupSup!
Bullet Club
Member
qwertz12345
Banned
I have the Anbernic RG351V and RG351P.
Even though it's nice playing retro games on these types of devices, do you think we'll ever see a Chinese manufacturer (or indeed anyone) decide to release their own proprietary handheld the way Panic have released the PlayDate console?
The company in question wouldn't even need to work that hard in terms of R&D. All they'd have to do is "white label" an existing design, slap their logo on it, and then ship it with a "proprietary" OS (including a heavily configured Android). Set up an online shop, and then release low budget indie games (like Panic have done with the PlayDate).
I look at something like the Miyoo Mini V2 (which is about $60), and I can only imagine the possibilities of what can be achieved by a company that decides to release their own "proprietary" handheld format using the same tech. Throw in a free bundled game, and you basically have the GameBoy / Tetris bundle all over again. Worst case scenario, you'll have a glorified Game & Watch.
Even though it's nice playing retro games on these types of devices, do you think we'll ever see a Chinese manufacturer (or indeed anyone) decide to release their own proprietary handheld the way Panic have released the PlayDate console?
The company in question wouldn't even need to work that hard in terms of R&D. All they'd have to do is "white label" an existing design, slap their logo on it, and then ship it with a "proprietary" OS (including a heavily configured Android). Set up an online shop, and then release low budget indie games (like Panic have done with the PlayDate).
I look at something like the Miyoo Mini V2 (which is about $60), and I can only imagine the possibilities of what can be achieved by a company that decides to release their own "proprietary" handheld format using the same tech. Throw in a free bundled game, and you basically have the GameBoy / Tetris bundle all over again. Worst case scenario, you'll have a glorified Game & Watch.
Rodolink
Member
why do that when they can still sell the consoles like they are, bundled with hundreds of illegal copies of games? I mean why would they spend resources developing games that probably will suck and that probably nobody would want.
Panic is in another level their bet was very risky and they created a very unique business proposition. Hard to see that repeating soon but who knows.
Remember that what drives hardware sales is the software. (unless tou have a very unique gimmick like Panic's)
qwertz12345
Banned
I think Panic took on needless risk when they tried to make a "designer handheld". All they had to do was "white label" existing tech, and modify it to suit their requirements. That's what Nintendo did with the Switch.
Software production isn't even that expensive (in the grand scheme of things). Just hire a lone coder (from China etc) if you have to, and ask them to make a game in 12 months. That should only set you back about $20,000 (max).
I'm just looking at the Miyoo Mini. That can be had for $41.25 per unit, and can be customised if 500+ are ordered.
Miyoo Mini 3.5 Inch Ips Screen Retro Handheld Game Player Linux System Portable Game Console For Ps1/sfc/md - Buy Miyoo Mini,Retro Game Console,Portable Game Player Product on Alibaba.com
Miyoo Mini 3.5 Inch Ips Screen Retro Handheld Game Player Linux System Portable Game Console For Ps1/sfc/md - Buy Miyoo Mini,Retro Game Console,Portable Game Player Product on Alibaba.com
www.alibaba.com
Let's just say that you order 1000 units. That's $40,000. Add another $20,000 for the game. That makes it $60,000.
$60,000/1000 = $60 is the break even price.
All you would need to do is set up a "pre-order campaign" that pays for manufacturing etc (like what Panic did with the PlayDate), and sell the handheld for around $80. You'd only need to sell 1000 units, and even if you had the pre-order campaign open for 3 months, you'd still be able to offload 1000 units.
After all... That's kind of what those "limited run" companies do with regards to their own "pre-order campaigns". They first get the pre-order money, and then use that money to fund production / manufacturing.
You make it out as if there's a lot of risk in making a handheld, when the figures pretty much prove that there's hardly any risk involved.
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Rodolink
Member
You can hire a coder and make just a game yes, but my point is you need a good game to sell the device or make a real cool idea device to make it on its own.
qwertz12345
Banned
Game And Watch was successful.
And $80 for a Special Edition of the game isn't even that big of an ask.
LRG do it all the time with their "special edition limited edition games" (which aren't even that good half of the time).
Bullet Club
Member
That $299 one could end up being pretty good if they choose the right chip and it has a good 720p screen.
Bullet Club
Member
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Ayn Loki Mini now comes with a Pentium 8500 or also an AMD Mendocino.
So Aya and Ayn will go head to head with 280/290 buck costing mini handhelds.
An outside contender for these is actually Anbernic with its Win600. Using 2c/2t AMD 3020E or 2c/4t Athlon Silver 3050E, it will have Vega 3 graphics.
So whereas the Mendocino handhelds sacrifice GPU for additional CPU cores, Win600 has more GPU cores (192 on 128).
However, the Mendocino's likely will outperform the Win600 just by linear improvement (different procede, modern GPU) alone.
Having said that, the Win600 should end up being the cheapest due to its specs. Essentially a Athlon 3000G in mobile package (or an Atari VCS, if you will), Win600 should be just okay for 720p gaming on older PS4/XBO grade titles (Doom Eternal 720p 40-45 fps on low) It should do great however on most games from the PS360 generation and F2P eSports games.
If Win600 can be 250 or lower, it would be quite a steal and a good Switch Lite competitor. Vega 3 has shown it has some chops and you could get a better-than-Switch experience with it. Especially indie shooters would run great on this machine.
For me, i am glad this is going to be a thing. I do plan and look for a Steam Deck, but have no interest in paying the premium (Even when a 6800U looks so good). But 200-300 buck range getting this kind of performance for a handheld is pretty staggering.
Lets put it like this: An Atari VCS for a similar price is useless because you can get so much better. But for a handheld, this stuff is pretty amazing. As long as you keep into mind what you use it for, these lower end PC handhelds (Which you can still use as a PC/console anyway by docking!) will bring cheap Steam PC gaming to the masses.
So ill be looking for a Air Plus or Loki Mini with Mendocino or a Win600. Because why not.
So Aya and Ayn will go head to head with 280/290 buck costing mini handhelds.
An outside contender for these is actually Anbernic with its Win600. Using 2c/2t AMD 3020E or 2c/4t Athlon Silver 3050E, it will have Vega 3 graphics.
So whereas the Mendocino handhelds sacrifice GPU for additional CPU cores, Win600 has more GPU cores (192 on 128).
However, the Mendocino's likely will outperform the Win600 just by linear improvement (different procede, modern GPU) alone.
Having said that, the Win600 should end up being the cheapest due to its specs. Essentially a Athlon 3000G in mobile package (or an Atari VCS, if you will), Win600 should be just okay for 720p gaming on older PS4/XBO grade titles (Doom Eternal 720p 40-45 fps on low) It should do great however on most games from the PS360 generation and F2P eSports games.
If Win600 can be 250 or lower, it would be quite a steal and a good Switch Lite competitor. Vega 3 has shown it has some chops and you could get a better-than-Switch experience with it. Especially indie shooters would run great on this machine.
For me, i am glad this is going to be a thing. I do plan and look for a Steam Deck, but have no interest in paying the premium (Even when a 6800U looks so good). But 200-300 buck range getting this kind of performance for a handheld is pretty staggering.
Lets put it like this: An Atari VCS for a similar price is useless because you can get so much better. But for a handheld, this stuff is pretty amazing. As long as you keep into mind what you use it for, these lower end PC handhelds (Which you can still use as a PC/console anyway by docking!) will bring cheap Steam PC gaming to the masses.
So ill be looking for a Air Plus or Loki Mini with Mendocino or a Win600. Because why not.
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qwertz12345
Banned
Don't you think Anbernic are going a bit silly though with their numerous handhelds?
Although saying that, I'm glad that they're verging into the "premium" territory.
Surprised that Anbernic haven't put out a Android handheld. Everything else that they've done has been Linux powered.
qwertz12345
Banned
Don't know where to post this... but the Evercade EXP has been announced.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...de-complete-with-irem-and-toaplan-collections
Apparently it has 1.5Ghz processor and 4GB of built-in memory.
Anyone know as to what OS it'll be running on?
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...de-complete-with-irem-and-toaplan-collections
Apparently it has 1.5Ghz processor and 4GB of built-in memory.
Anyone know as to what OS it'll be running on?
Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
I think that Anbernic is losing a streak which i hope the Win600 will correct provided it is significantly lower than a Mendocino handheld.
199/219 or something like that. Fits right into Switch territory and the Zen 1 + Vega 3 combination is usually a bit better (and atleast more versatile).
Bullet Club
Member
qwertz12345
Banned
I know that Steam Deck is a handheld... And so is the Anbernic.
But do you think we're on the cusp of a new dawn of "Steam Machines"?
I'm just looking at all these cheap X86 SBC that go for about $60-80...
Surely you could just grab one of these SBC, attach them with your own Linux distro... Sell them for about $100.
You won't even need to worry about controllers or screens. Just use your existing bluetooth controllers and normal TV screen.
It could work.
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Redneckerz
Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Perhaps in handheld form, yes. All of these can run Steam OS or Linux.
For dedicated machines, doubt it. Valve could do well with a Steam Deck console using the AMD Aerith, but it all depends on how much they optimize games for it. Optimization is the key difference between the console and the PC.
A Win600 console basically already exists in the shape of an Atari VCS, which also Zen 1 + Vega 3.
They used to do this with the Atom Z3735, but the other way around. Make a tablet based around that and you have a cheap x86 handheld that (at the time) could run some games.
And yeah, the ultra low end is a lot better these days, to the point where you could run PS360 quality games with quite ease for that price. I find that ''PS360-equivalent'' is a good measurement of performance when picking up entry-level gaming. As PS360-equivalent is basically 720p30 low, that bar nowadays isn't high.
qwertz12345
Banned
I still think that we could see a few "indie companies" release "indie" hardware that incorporates both a SBC and a custom Linux OS.
Obviously, Anbernic and Valve are going down the handheld route. But handhelds are also a tad more expensive, and don't offer as much power.
If Anbernic can release a "PC" handheld. Then it shouldn't be too hard for a small Western company to also release a "PC" under-the-TV console.
In terms of offering equivalent power, handhelds are generally more expensive anyway - if only because the manufacturer needs to take into account the additional screen and controller costs.
You don't need to worry about that if you're thinking of releasing a under-the-TV console.
The consumer can plug in any controller via Bluetooth, and they can also connect to their HDTV.
EDIT: I know that this is a handheld thread. But there could be cheap consoles made out of all these SBC.
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Bullet Club
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Bullet Club
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BLAUcopter
Gold Member
Retroid 2+ on the way!!! Looking forward to getting stuck into the roms scene after a decade plus hiatus.
First game? Don't know but it will most likely be Mortal Kombat 3, or Gran Turismo 1.
First game? Don't know but it will most likely be Mortal Kombat 3, or Gran Turismo 1.
Bullet Club
Member
Bullet Club
Member
The Odin Lite looks like it could be the one to get if you want a good emulation system at a decent price.
-Odin Lite Specs-
CPU: Dimensity 900
GPU: Mali G68 MC4
RAM: 4GB LPDDR4x
Storage: 64GB UFS 2.1
Battery: 6600 mAh
Display: 5.98 inch IPS 1920x1080
Network: Wi-Fi 6 / 4G Data
Bluetooth: 5.2
OS: Android 11
-Odin Lite Specs-
CPU: Dimensity 900
GPU: Mali G68 MC4
RAM: 4GB LPDDR4x
Storage: 64GB UFS 2.1
Battery: 6600 mAh
Display: 5.98 inch IPS 1920x1080
Network: Wi-Fi 6 / 4G Data
Bluetooth: 5.2
OS: Android 11
Bullet Club
Member
CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction
00:47 1. AYANEO Air
02:05 2. Evercade EXP
03:06 3. KT-R1C
04:15 4. AYANEO Flip
05:05 5. AYN Loki
06:38 6. Miyoo P60
07:34 7. Retroid Pocket 3
09:08 8. Creoqode Lrya
10:20 9. Powkiddy Windows Handheld
11:28 10. AYANEO Next 2
13:17 11. AOKZOE A1
14:24 12. Miyoo Mini Horizontal
Rodolink
Member
This looks great apart from the dpad at the bottom.
retrododo.com
OH WOW Handheld Is An Upcoming Linux Based Handheld From The USA
It’s not often we get exclusive access to upcoming handhelds, but the OH WOW handheld is one that we’re excited to show you, not only because it looks like a…View Post
retrododo.com
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Anyone got Miyoo Mini v2 or v3 ?
Seems like a real portable device. I am giving away my steam deck for Christmas as I found myself not using it too much or at all.
Steam Deck is just this huge thing that is incredible but it's too unwieldy for small games and for real games, I got ps5 and pc.
If this runs all consoles up to ps1, then could be interesting. Maybe I would finally play ff7 and snes games as I never had snes.
For 50$ why not. Although it's impossible to buy. I can't find it.
I am also interested in Playdate but 180$ is a stretch...
Seems like a real portable device. I am giving away my steam deck for Christmas as I found myself not using it too much or at all.
Steam Deck is just this huge thing that is incredible but it's too unwieldy for small games and for real games, I got ps5 and pc.
If this runs all consoles up to ps1, then could be interesting. Maybe I would finally play ff7 and snes games as I never had snes.
For 50$ why not. Although it's impossible to buy. I can't find it.
I am also interested in Playdate but 180$ is a stretch...
Rodolink
Member
I have one, is a great mini game boy, quality is very good too. auper happy with it.
Just keep in mind is small, like a pack of cigarettes, Idyprefee something bigger for lomger gaming sessions.
Take a look at the retroid pocket 3+, RG351M, RG353 or RG505, those have bigger screens and can play up to dreamcast/psp/n64
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
yeah this is a concern but also a good thing,
The screen is still bigger than original gameboy... I had one shortly as a kid.
I've had my fill of horizontal handhelds with the Deck, so now I would like to try vertical again.
yeah, I see that for n64, anberic is the only option.... also better ps1 support but I think most ps1 games did not required analog dualshock.
Just a curiosity.... I will look around.
I kinda wish steam deck was vertical like this, I think it would be more comfortable. Not sre how I feel about keeping hands this weirdly wide apart
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