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The Nostalgia Critic |OT| He Remembers It So You Don't Have To

N

Nepenthe

Member
Cheerilee said:
That line got an eyebrow raise from me because I remembered reading an interview with an animator where he said that if you ask animators to choose between working on the main character or working on the animal sidekick, 99% of the time animators will ask to work on the animal sidekick, because it's more fun, but that he was "forced" to work on the boring human in whichever movie this was, because his portfolio showed that he was better at drawing humans than all the other animators who had similarly chosen to work on the animal sidekick. He was the "lead animator" because he drew the short straw.

But I'm not too fussed about Doug not knowing that sort of thing. I know there's a ton of stuff about animation that I don't understand, and I've seen Doug fall short often enough that I'm not holding him to a higher standard. He's occasionally insightful, and he reviews the kind of movies that I enjoy seeing reviewed.
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I think it irks me so badly because Doug is in a position to watch a lot of films and look back through them with a somewhat critical eye, animated or otherwise, and while I don't expect him to understand or appreciate the theory on how to create good animation, I would still expect someone in his field to not be so dismissive of the effort simply because of the subject matter. True, he does go on to recognize the beauty of the end result in Lady and the Tramp, but the lead in shits on some of the best people Disney ever hired. The dogs were animated well because there was artistic integrity in place to capture both the mechanical way a dog moves and how each specific character would behave within the confines of those mechanics. And it's beautiful. What does it even matter that they're just dogs?

I also can't get with his belief that there's nothing iconic about the original Lady and the Tramp. Hello? The spaghetti sequence? Probably one of the most romantic bits of film ever? I mean, Jesus Christ on a cracker dude.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being a nag or an elitist, or that I expect him to love Lady and the Tramp as much as I do, but Doug has some amazingly shortsighted rationale for his opinions that only go to show how shallow they can really be. If you're not expecting Lindsay-levels of depth from him, he's still got a voice to offer, but at the same time I'm a SCAD baby and lifetime lover of animation; my opinionated sensitivity to this isn't going to go away. xD I mean, I still haven't recovered fully from his video about CGI and practical effects.
 
T

TEJ

Member
I really hate the lion king 1.5/3. It has nice animation for a disney dtv i'll give it that, but for a pure comedy it wasn't funny...the soundtrack wasn't even was good as simbas pride. Plus I really wish it was a direct sequel. There already was a show focusing on timon and pumbaa.

There is now a genuine tlk tv show but...why does it take place in between the timeskip of simbas pride? Not content with the amazing amount of continuity errors of everything past the first movie, they create a show that has even more errors.

As juvenile as the show gets its a guilty pleasure of mine.

I am curious as to how Doug will view tlk1.5, he isn't a fan of the first two but this one is fairly different from those.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
TEJ said:
I really hate the lion king 1.5/3. It has nice animation for a disney dtv i'll give it that, but for a pure comedy it wasn't funny...the soundtrack wasn't even was good as simbas pride. Plus I really wish it was a direct sequel. There already was a show focusing on timon and pumbaa.

There is now a genuine tlk tv show but...why does it take place in between the timeskip of simbas pride? Not content with the amazing amount of continuity errors of everything past the first movie, they create a show that has even more errors.

As juvenile as the show gets its a guilty pleasure of mine.

I am curious as to how Doug will view tlk1.5, he isn't a fan of the first two but this one is fairly different from those.
Click to expand...


Doug's expectations of Disney sequels are relatively low. By this point he knows that comparing them to the original isn't fair, so as long as the animation is acceptable and the story is fine, he'll like it. Lion king 1 1/2 does one of those things, but I think the references to the first movie might be hit or miss with him. Like the scene with Pumba knocking out those animals causing them to look like they're bowing isn't that great, but the Be Prepared and Just Can't Wait to be King parts got a bit of a chuckle out of me.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Nepenthe said:
To be fair, it's not that Nostalgia Critic doesn't come in with any biases whatsoever. He's completely aware that the negative reception of these films, and in general has his own opinions of the originals that's going to color his impressions. He can try to be neutral, but realistically speaking that's impossible. It is interesting to nonetheless hear the perspective of someone who has gone through life understanding the baggage of the sequels without having personally indulged in them, but at the same time his conclusions leave much to be desired because, again, he can't be counted on to even understand the artistic value of the original films in the first place.

Subsequently, I feel there's also interest in hearing the opinions of someone versed in a field even if you know they're coming in with preconceived notions. The rational arguments underlying an opinion are just as much worth sharing. Now, I do disagree with Lindsay on the entertainment value on Lion King 1 1/2, but I can also say I see where her opinion comes from. Timon and Pumbaa literally do "fuck up a good movie" by basically being the behind-the-scene arbiters of the important bits that happen, through competence or otherwise which, if taken as canon, basically handwaves the decision-making and majesty on display in the original. I can understand why someone like Lindsay would hate the film on the merits of its concept. However, what I can't understand is why the fuck Doug would say some dumb shit like "Why would you animate dogs well?" Like, in what fucking universe is this even a non-condescending question?
Click to expand...

oh definitely there are biases to on Doug's case and he can still miss out points (we see in some of his vids, like in the KoT review I pointed out), I just find it interesting to see a different perspective. And yeah Doug's really weird with comments like that. Like, it's an animation - why wouldn't they focus on dogs?

With that said I think the whole idea of TLK3 is to be all about unreliability of the story and the whole set-up should probably point that it shouldn't be taken seriously and thus shouldn't really "shape" TLK1's style and narrative.

TEJ said:
I really hate the lion king 1.5/3. It has nice animation for a disney dtv i'll give it that, but for a pure comedy it wasn't funny...the soundtrack wasn't even was good as simbas pride. Plus I really wish it was a direct sequel. There already was a show focusing on timon and pumbaa.

There is now a genuine tlk tv show but...why does it take place in between the timeskip of simbas pride? Not content with the amazing amount of continuity errors of everything past the first movie, they create a show that has even more errors.

As juvenile as the show gets its a guilty pleasure of mine.

I am curious as to how Doug will view tlk1.5, he isn't a fan of the first two but this one is fairly different from those.
Click to expand...

But they actually managed to fit TLK2 with Lion Guard so there's that.

Nepenthe said:
I think it irks me so badly because Doug is in a position to watch a lot of films and look back through them with a somewhat critical eye, animated or otherwise, and while I don't expect him to understand or appreciate the theory on how to create good animation, I would still expect someone in his field to not be so dismissive of the effort simply because of the subject matter. True, he does go on to recognize the beauty of the end result in Lady and the Tramp, but the lead in shits on some of the best people Disney ever hired. The dogs were animated well because there was artistic integrity in place to capture both the mechanical way a dog moves and how each specific character would behave within the confines of those mechanics. And it's beautiful. What does it even matter that they're just dogs?

I also can't get with his belief that there's nothing iconic about the original Lady and the Tramp. Hello? The spaghetti sequence? Probably one of the most romantic bits of film ever? I mean, Jesus Christ on a cracker dude.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being a nag or an elitist, or that I expect him to love Lady and the Tramp as much as I do, but Doug has some amazingly shortsighted rationale for his opinions that only go to show how shallow they can really be. If you're not expecting Lindsay-levels of depth from him, he's still got a voice to offer, but at the same time I'm a SCAD baby and lifetime lover of animation; my opinionated sensitivity to this isn't going to go away. xD I mean, I still haven't recovered fully from his video about CGI and practical effects.
Click to expand...

Basically I see him more like a casual viewer with access to some material, so he's not like Lindsay who has an in-depth view of stuff. Hell, Linkara's History of Power Rangers have more research done on his subject material than Doug's (hence why him getting details wrong like Tarzan and Jane being supposedly a "testing ground" for the tv series when in actuality Tarzan TAS has been airing already and that video was more of a "collection of lost episodes" kind of deal).

Basically, a typical GAF poster lol
 
B

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
Disneycember: The Lion King 1 1/2

Doug isn't enough of a Timon and Pumbaa fan to like it.

I don't think there's enough movies to last the rest of the month. I wouldn't be surprised if we get reviews of this year's Disney movies. There's 10 though so I can't see him doing all of them.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
BatDan said:
Disneycember: The Lion King 1 1/2

Doug isn't enough of a Timon and Pumbaa fan to like it.

I don't think there's enough movies to last the rest of the month. I wouldn't be surprised if we get reviews of this year's Disney movies. There's 10 though so I can't see him doing all of them.
Click to expand...

There's Twice Upon a Christmas, Brother Bear 2, Lilo and Stitch 2, Leroy and Stitch, Tarzan 2, Bambi 2, Kronk's New Groove, Mulan 2, Cinderella 3, Fox and the Hound 2, and Ariel's Beginning remaining.

Then there are enough Tinkerbell and Winnie the Pooh films to pad out the rest of the month if need be.
 
S

Strider_Blaze

Member
And it's up!

Disneycember - Mulan II

The review started with a sad face. They weren't kidding when they said Doug screamed so loud, he blew up the mic.

Though a few things he got wrong include that they were against the Mongols, not the Huns. And...

The 2 kingdoms actually did end up united in the end.

Nonetheless, the review was very spot on. It was definitely one of the worst Disney sequels I saw.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I have a soft spot for it for fleshing out Shang. But yeah, the major degradation of Mushu's character.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
Disneycember-Tarzan II


I'm assuming that he liked this and 101 Dalmations 2 because he didn't expect much from either since he didn't hold the originals in that high of regard, so as long as they weren't offensive and put in an honest effort in their storytelling he'd be fine.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Also there are actually 3 dtv stich stuff

Lilo and Stitch 2 which follows directly after the film
Stitch, which is actually a movie that acts as a pre-launch for the Stitch series
and Leroy and Stitch, which closes up the Stitch series

and iirc LnS2 came out as the second d2v, so there's that
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
Fj0823 said:
Probably my favorite Disney sequel.

They really really tried.

Even if it has issues
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Something that caught my ear in this review, which I've noticed a lot from Doug, is that he cites "hard work" and "effort" when talking about a quality piece of work.

The other day I was watching Adam Savage (the guy from Mythbusters) and he complimented an intricate piece of work by saying "You can tell that they really had fun while they were working on this."

I get the sense that Doug is a workaholic. But you should always try to work smarter, not harder. A certain amount of hard work is always required, but if you can do something that adds a unique style or flavor to a piece of work, that's usually worth more than the same amount of hard work. Even if your piece ends up misbalanced with obvious shortcomings, your style will give people reasons to overlook the shortcomings. Doug's productions are always going to have shortcomings and look somewhat amateur, and no amount of hard work is going to overcome that, so I think he should embrace where he's at and try to have more fun with his work. Just a suggestion (and he's almost certainly not reading this).
 
L

LiK

Member
DisneyCember has been a lot of fun. His reaction to Mulan 2 was the greatest thing. I never got around to watching it on Blu. It came with the first movie and I cannot believe how bad the plot is.
 
M

Mr. Smiley

Member
Emperor did have a tv show. It came out around the same time Kronk did.

Why did they wait like 6 years to kickstart a franchise based on a single movie I don't know.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
Mr. Smiley said:
Emperor did have a tv show. It came out around the same time Kronk did.

Why did they wait like 6 years to kickstart a franchise based on a single movie I don't know.
Click to expand...

Emperor's New School, yeah. I didn't like it that much because it had a tendency to reverse a lot of the character development built up in the movies and made Kuzco a little too whiny
 
C

Cheerilee

Member
BatDan said:
*sees Dear Santa review*
Root what are you doing here?! Man, Person of Interest was a major upgrade for Amy Acker.
Click to expand...

"Fred" from Joss Whedon's Buffy-spinoff "Angel" was her big break. After that, she does a lot of work that could be considered beneath her. Crap like Dear Santa pays the bills.

IIRC, Root was just another guest star role in Person of Interest until the showrunners decided to keep her.
 
C

caliph95

Member
Cheerilee said:
"Fred" from Joss Whedon's Buffy-spinoff "Angel" was her big break. After that, she does a lot of work that could be considered beneath her. Crap like Dear Santa pays the bills.

IIRC, Root was just another guest star role in Person of Interest until the showrunners decided to keep her.
Click to expand...
She got lucky and i bet she tanks god she doesn't have to do shit like that. Well until POI got cancelled.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
No new video this week or is it just late?

I finally went back and watched the 12 nostalgic Christmas commercials. I'm glad that he included the Frankenstein one even though it's new.
 
B

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
What a miserable movie. Bleh.

Next week he's doing a clipless review of Rogue One with Chris Stuckmann.
 
S

Strider_Blaze

Member
zeemumu said:
Did the game Stitch: Experiment 626 come out before the show and this movie? Because that hamster is in it but he has a different more foreboding voice.
Click to expand...

That game was released on June 2002, while the show and that film were released on 2003 and 2006 respectively. So yes.

And now the next entry:

Disneycember - Brother Bear 2

Now after watching this review, I do generally feel bothered at the films that Doug was very critical to, yet praised for the great animation, as well. Thinking about that, it really just doesn't feel right that lots of effort in the animation was put into the films, while at the same time, not even bothering with the story or the characters.

And I do wonder if he will also review the only entry to the Disney Princess Enchanted Tales series. Yeah believe it or not, there was going to be a DTV series focused on the Disney Princesses, though that didn't catch on thanks to the ban on DTV Disney sequels. In case people don't know, this film actually has two shorts: a new entry to the Sleeping Beauty story since the release of the original film (not counting the live-action Maleficent film), as well as a new one for Jasmine. Though from the previews of the film (which can be found on the first DVD release of Cinderella III), the Sleeping Beauty short had a different story in contrast to the final product and instead of a Jasmine story, it was going to be one on Belle. And there was apparently going to be new shorts on Cinderella and Mulan.

Yeah both shorts ended up pretty corny and stupid to me (Aurora felt OOC from the original film), plus I question why there even was a new Jasmine story when Aladdin pretty much had loads of entries. Even Mary Costa (Princess Aurora's original voice actress) apparently didn't have nice things to say about the Sleeping Beauty short. I actually found an interview in case anyone is interested.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I remember there were Disney Princesses VHS tapes, it was Jasmine and Ariel. They were actually episodes from their specific TAS that focused specifically on them.
 
Boss Doggie

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Timu said:
I remember this awful movie...this review makes it even worse than I remembered.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a pretty horrible movie.

It's so weird that the only movie that manages to bring out the commercialism of Christmas while still maintaining its goodness of the holiday spirit is A Christmas Story.
 
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