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[Saber]

Keep up the good fight buddy, maybe one day people will listen to whatever the crap you wanted to say.

lol

Good to know she went straight to the generic defense response when she didn't even knew what the fuck this was all about. You don't even need to call an idiot, they do that for themselves.

 

[ReasonBeing]

"It's a trend and not an unpopular one". We keep telling you this and you keep ignoring it, no one notice this when they are kids, or in obscure stories. But if Xena was made now, people would react similarly. There is a lot of stuff that people didn't care about then that we do now. It's similar to blackface, people are more aware of it now, but in the 90s, it was used as comedy.

You also have to take into account the bizarre demographics these days, especially in Europe. Everyone is aware now.

Lupita is singled out because she is not european, she is not white. She is from a different people. Greeks are
European, Matt Damon is of European descent, Holland is European, Pattinson is of European descent. It's their people. Lupita is not our people. Again, every ethnicity thinks the same about these topics and react similarly.

And people are going after Nolan for this as well, he is the ultimate clown in this.

Hypothetically, what if they cast a Volga Tatar? These are white passing Russians that do not descend from Europeans. Would such a person being singled out be justified?

 

[jason10mm]

Hypothetically, what if they cast a Volga Tatar? These are white passing Russians that do not descend from Europeans. Would such a person being singled out be justified?

This, really, is the only requirement for an ACTOR. Do they PASS for the character they are representing? Be it race, culture, age, sexual orientation, even gender, can they make the AUDIENCE believe that character is authentic, 'real', and alive in the role?

So I'm less interested in the DNA origins of the actor, or even their personal background, provided they have put in the work to understand and honor the character and they LOOK the part.

So Helen of Troy could be an actress from Brazil, Russia, Finland, Greece, South Africa, Australia, Canada, or whereever, but if she LOOKS the part, and then she can grok the character, that's the job of an actress.

Now, obviously, the closer the actress is to the character, often the better the performance. There is no shortage of women who fit the part of Helen AND share some cultural and ethnic relationship to her. But apparently Nolan cast a woman with none of those things.

 

[ReasonBeing]

This, really, is the only requirement for an ACTOR. Do they PASS for the character they are representing? Be it race, culture, age, sexual orientation, even gender, can they make the AUDIENCE believe that character is authentic, 'real', and alive in the role?

So I'm less interested in the DNA origins of the actor, or even their personal background, provided they have put in the work to understand and honor the character and they LOOK the part.

So Helen of Troy could be an actress from Brazil, Russia, Finland, Greece, South Africa, Australia, Canada, or whereever, but if she LOOKS the part, and then she can grok the character, that's the job of an actress.

Now, obviously, the closer the actress is to the character, often the better the performance. There is no shortage of women who fit the part of Helen AND share some cultural and ethnic relationship to her. But apparently Nolan cast a woman with none of those things.

While I don't agree that it should be a requirement, that makes much more sense than requiring that they descend from the same people group, as the character who is represented.

 

[jason10mm]

While I don't agree that it should be a requirement, that makes much more sense than requiring that they descend from the same people group, as the character who is represented.

It's like casting a Korean to play a chinese or japanese character. Do they look "close enough'? Sure, at least to a western audience. But to a korean or japanese audience? Maybe not. The closer you get, the more the little differences become important.

A movie financed and filmed in Greece on the greek language would definitely note any non-greek actors. Zoom out to europe/america and greek culture (especially this ancient era) has been a foundational pillar, while MILLIONS of greeks and their descendants have settled in America. America's "melting pot" encorporates this.

 

[ReasonBeing]

It's like casting a Korean to play a chinese or japanese character. Do they look "close enough'? Sure, at least to a western audience. But to a korean or japanese audience? Maybe not. The closer you get, the more the little differences become important.

A movie financed and filmed in Greece on the greek language would definitely note any non-greek actors. Zoom out to europe/america and greek culture (especially this ancient era) has been a foundational pillar, while MILLIONS of greeks and their descendants have settled in America. America's "melting pot" encorporates this.

I'm sure if you get into the weeds one can find cultural attitudes where this type of situation can become a sticking point.

Ironically, I remember not too long ago that the liberal position was strongly against perceived race swaps due to accusations of whitewashing. They also suggested that non LGBTQ shouldn't portray LGBTQ characters. The consensus conservative position was that actors are actors, and should be able to portray whoever and whatever, as it is make-believe.

I am not suggesting one side is being more hypocritical than the other. I'm just pointing out the situation where two sides make the same arguments when it's "convenient" (for the lack of a better word).

This isn't necessarily directed at you, and more or less is just me rambling about these things that I notice.

 

[John Bilbo]

This, really, is the only requirement for an ACTOR. Do they PASS for the character they are representing? Be it race, culture, age, sexual orientation, even gender, can they make the AUDIENCE believe that character is authentic, 'real', and alive in the role?

So I'm less interested in the DNA origins of the actor, or even their personal background, provided they have put in the work to understand and honor the character and they LOOK the part.

So Helen of Troy could be an actress from Brazil, Russia, Finland, Greece, South Africa, Australia, Canada, or whereever, but if she LOOKS the part, and then she can grok the character, that's the job of an actress.

Now, obviously, the closer the actress is to the character, often the better the performance. There is no shortage of women who fit the part of Helen AND share some cultural and ethnic relationship to her. But apparently Nolan cast a woman with none of those things.

I'd say it is about maintaining immersion. Movies are basically like magic tricks after all: they are not real but for the trick to work the immersion has to remain intact.

 

[jason10mm]

I'm sure if you get into the weeds one can find cultural attitudes where this type of situation can become a sticking point.

Ironically, I remember not too long ago that the liberal position was strongly against perceived race swaps due to accusations of whitewashing. They also suggested that non LGBTQ shouldn't portray LGBTQ characters. The consensus conservative position was that actors are actors, and should be able to portray whoever and whatever, as it is make-believe.

I don't think the "Conservative consensus" was ever that ANYONE could play ANYONE, but certaily, for a time, the 'liberal position' was definitely that any and all "progressive" characteristics, no matter how invisible on screen, needed to ne fully represented in the ACTOR. This is why we suddenly had every actress coming out as bisexual so they could get in on any LGBTBBQ role, the number of which EXPLODED in recent years.

There are certainly some hollywood injustice about using italians to play native peoples, any asian subbing in for any other asian, or tanned white folk in dark wigs being middle-eastern, indian, or whatnot. But how many decades of penance is required? I think the market alone will determine how casting should go.

 

[ReasonBeing]

I don't think the "Conservative consensus" was ever that ANYONE could play ANYONE, but certaily, for a time, the 'liberal position' was definitely that any and all "progressive" characteristics, no matter how invisible on screen, needed to ne fully represented in the ACTOR. This is why we suddenly had every actress coming out as bisexual so they could get in on any LGBTBBQ role, the number of which EXPLODED in recent years.

There are certainly some hollywood injustice about using italians to play native peoples, any asian subbing in for any other asian, or tanned white folk in dark wigs being middle-eastern, indian, or whatnot. But how many decades of penance is required? I think the market alone will determine how casting should go.

For the sake of simplicity, the argument was actors play make believe, so it doesn't matter. I was speaking generally, I didn't intend for "whoever and whatever" to be taken literally. I'm sure conservatives never would have been down with an Asian female playing the role of Jesus for example.

 

[nkarafo]

Seems like Lupita really cares about accuracy and representation when it comes to African culture and less so when it's not...

This. This right here is the real problem for me.

15 years ago i wouldn't give a shit if Helen of Troy was played by a black woman, a Chinese, latina, whatever. I still wouldn't like it but i also wouldn't care either.

But after 15 years of being told how this is racist and how this is cultural appropriation and all that crap, i at least expect the people who try to force those rules to me to follow them themselves. Turns out they never actually cared about racism or cultural appropriation. All this time they were just mad because they weren't the ones in power doing those things.

So the least they could do is to be honest about it. "Yes, it's our turn to be racists and undermine other cultures". That would be less infuriating than them virtue signalling and posing as the righteous people.

 

[DeafTourette]

lol

She grew up in Mexico, not the US. Different school curriculum

 

[SJRB]

> study drama at Yale
> literally never heard of The Odyssey before
> seriously, not just "never read it", but straight up never heard of it before in her life

It's just a never ending stream of nonsense and retarded takes with this movie.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Late to the party but the latest trailer with Matt Damon screaming "Let's go" makes me chuckle so much. What a bad scene. No credibility

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Late to the party but the latest trailer with Matt Damon screaming "Let's go" makes me chuckle so much. What a bad scene. No credibility

Or how about using the word "daddy" in an ancient greek story. I googled it and the term was first recorded in english language in the 1500s, while this mythical story was written about 700 BC.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Or how about using the word "daddy" in an ancient greek story. I googled it and the term was first recorded in english language in the 1500s, while this mythical story was written about 700 BC.

Yes that too but also the little steps Matt does for the let's go make me laugh. It's such a weird take and I'm shocked Nolan gave it the ok. He makes the little steps as if to encourage his men, but slow enough that he hopes they go ahead of him in combat

 

[Lord Panda]

Seems like Lupita really cares about accuracy and representation when it comes to African culture and less so when it's not...

This is the double standard I was referring to. When you point it out, the Toons-types tie themselves in knots trying to justify it, and engaging with them just becomes an endless time-wasting vortex because you are never going to convince them otherwise.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

It's OK boys, everything is back to normal now

 

[Hari Seldon]

I finally got around to watching the Director's cut of Troy. Wow what an epic. From what I remember of the theatrical cut, they made Achilles much more of a bastard initially, thereby giving him a larger character arc. I also think Paris is a more sympathetic character in the DC. But I can't believe how many massive scenes with extras that were cut from this film. A great epic watch.

 

[IDKFA]

I finally got around to watching the Director's cut of Troy. Wow what an epic. From what I remember of the theatrical cut, they made Achilles much more of a bastard initially, thereby giving him a larger character arc. I also think Paris is a more sympathetic character in the DC. But I can't believe how many massive scenes with extras that were cut from this film. A great epic watch.

Troy is a film that has aged like a fine wine. Especially the DC.

I plan to watch it this weekend.

 

[Stuart360]

 

[kruis]

She grew up in Mexico, not the US. Different school curriculum

Ehm, not really. She only spent the first year of her life in Mexico (where her father taught and where she was born), then her family went back to Kenya. She left Kenya at 16 to study Spanish for 7 months at a Learning Center for Foreigners after which she went back to Kenya to graduate and then moved to the US to study at a college. So she got most of her basic education in Kenya.

 

[TintoConCasera]

You know what, maybe AI isn't so bad after all.

 

[DeafTourette]

Ehm, not really. She only spent the first year of her life in Mexico (where her father taught and where she was born), then her family went back to Kenya. She left Kenya at 16 to study Spanish for 7 months at a Learning Center for Foreigners after which she went back to Kenya to graduate and then moved to the US to study at a college. So she got most of her basic education in Kenya.

You just proved my point (alas, I got her story wrong in the process ... Thank you for the correction). She didn't have a formal American HS education which is very European centered... Kenya would have centered on the whole of Africa (and Kenya specifically), not on Europe (even though there is some history INVOLVING Europe)... Literature, civics, history, etc. Therefore, I doubt she learned about Homer and Greek history. Though I'm sure American history might have been an elective

 

[jason10mm]

You just proved my point (alas, I got her story wrong in the process ... Thank you for the correction). She didn't have a formal American HS education which is very European centered... Kenya would have centered on the whole of Africa (and Kenya specifically), not on Europe (even though there is some history INVOLVING Europe)... Literature, civics, history, etc. Therefore, I doubt she learned about Homer and Greek history. Though I'm sure American history might have been an elective

I would put out the notion that if she did NOT learn about the Odyssey despite being well educated in her culture, then in fact the Odyssey is NOT a "globally owned mythic story" and maybe she shouldn't have been cast as a central figure in it?

I'm starting to be very worried that she will actually be just fine in this because there are SO MANY other issues that take precedence!

 

[StueyDuck]

Gosh this movie is gonna bomb to an insane degree.

Like im hearing radio stations now, in south africa discussing it with the normies on the morning commute (obviously diluted to "is accuracy important", not really discussing the actual topic)

This is gonna be the years megaflop and all because some rat bastards funding the movie would have insisted on woke retard stuff.

Nolan should have bailed, he went from being the man who got in trouble because his cast in Dunkirk were too white to being the poster child of DEI and woke hollyweird

 

[Lord Panda]

Gosh this movie is gonna bomb to an insane degree.

Like im hearing radio stations now, in south africa discussing it with the normies on the morning commute (obviously diluted to "is accuracy important", not really discussing the actual topic)

This is gonna be the years megaflop and all because some rat bastards funding the movie would have insisted on woke retard stuff.

Nolan should have bailed, he went from being the man who got in trouble because his cast in Dunkirk were too white to being the poster child of DEI and woke hollyweird

If this movie does bomb, and I'm still not convinced it will, I think it may finally be the wake-up call Hollywood needs that heavy-handed DEI box-ticking can have real consequences with audiences.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Western women sure are fast tracking our demise. And so gleefully to boot.

 

[GymWolf]

How fucking ignorant you need to be to not know anything about the odissey.?

This chick is lying...

 

[Branded]

Western women sure are fast tracking our demise. And so gleefully to boot.

Time to whip out this bad boy:

 

[AJUMP23]

How fucking ignorant you need to be to not know anything about the odissey.?

This chick is lying...

She is either inditing Yale for being a terrible school for literature, or inditing herself for being extremely ignorant.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Time to whip out this bad boy:

....He's not wrong though, is he?

But in all fairness, it's not all women, at all. It's certainly a certain ilk, mind you, and most of them are 'educated..'

I wonder what the defining factor is. It's a mystery

I just wish I lived in a world where my family were not dragged down with it. And it's getting harder by the day to not be.

Same goes for most of us I'd imagine.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Hypothetically, what if they cast a Volga Tatar? These are white passing Russians that do not descend from Europeans. Would such a person being singled out be justified?

It's culture not colour, it's the Greeks and then the Romans who established European culture, through democracy and Christianity. There are many white people outside of this cultural sphere.

 

[kruis]

How fucking ignorant you need to be to not know anything about the odissey.?

This chick is lying...

She's Kenyan, that's where she grew up and went to primary/secondary school.

 

[ReasonBeing]

It's culture not colour, it's the Greeks and then the Romans who established European culture, through democracy and Christianity. There are many white people outside of this cultural sphere.

So you would expect a Tatar to be singled out as well?

 

[kpopSuperstar]

So you would expect a Tatar to be singled out as well?

I don't know, probably not if they looked European.

 

[jason10mm]

So you would expect a Tatar to be singled out as well?

Assuming she is attractive and speaks without too much of an accent (or at least has an english one, the default "historically appropriate accent") then if she is blonde and light eyed, then 99% of folks won't NEED to look deeper than that as she fits the description of Helen and will seemlessly integrate into every westerners (and lets face it, everyone elses as well) image of a greek/western civ based myth.

Lupita IMMEDIATELY triggers a "huh, she stands out" response. Which is perhaps the point. Is it a way to market the film to Africa? Meet oscar BP requirements? Done when ESG funding required it? She worked the casting couch? Shock the audience in some way? We may never know as I'm not sure Nolan or anyone else will give an honest response. And maybe she doesn't even appear in the theatrical cut.

 

[Dr Bass]

How fucking ignorant you need to be to not know anything about the odissey.?

This chick is lying...

Or ...

 

[IDKFA]

So you would expect a Tatar to be singled out as well?

I'm pretty sure this misses a massive part of the Tartar genetic and historical makeup.

You're clealry the expert here so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought modern genetic studies showed that Volga Tatars are actually a mix of European and Asian ancestry, with the European side usually being the dominant one.

 

[jason10mm]

I'm pretty sure this misses a massive part of the Tartar genetic and historical makeup.

You're clealry the expert here so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought modern genetic studies showed that Volga Tatars are actually a mix of European and Asian ancestry, with the European side usually being the dominant one.

They can certainly 'look' more like a Greek Princess from a line of Greeks NOTORIOUS for fighting any outsiders.

 

[Bojji]

So you would expect a Tatar to be singled out as well?

I don't know, probably not if they looked European.

Assuming she is attractive and speaks without too much of an accent (or at least has an english one, the default "historically appropriate accent") then if she is blonde and light eyed, then 99% of folks won't NEED to look deeper than that as she fits the description of Helen and will seemlessly integrate into every westerners (and lets face it, everyone elses as well) image of a greek/western civ based myth.

Lupita IMMEDIATELY triggers a "huh, she stands out" response. Which is perhaps the point. Is it a way to market the film to Africa? Meet oscar BP requirements? Done when ESG funding required it? She worked the casting couch? Shock the audience in some way? We may never know as I'm not sure Nolan or anyone else will give an honest response. And maybe she doesn't even appear in the theatrical cut.

Some Polish Lipka Tatars could play Helen (or even better Greeks than native Polish people):

 

[ReasonBeing]

I'm pretty sure this misses a massive part of the Tartar genetic and historical makeup.

You're clealry the expert here so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought modern genetic studies showed that Volga Tatars are actually a mix of European and Asian ancestry, with the European side usually being the dominant one.

I am no expert, so I would have no problem being corrected. Like 20 years ago, a professor was telling our class about some non-European white passing people groups, and Tatars were included in the discussion (that was the only one I could recall the name of).

*So I just cheated and asked perplexity, so feel free to fact check. Volga Tatars are not direct descendants of Europeans, but.... Europeans and Tatars have some overlapping prehistoric ancestry. So maybe it's like modern humans and modern apes. We didn't evolve from modern apes, but we share common ancestry, if you go back far enough (just a lazy analogy)

 

[OmegaSupreme]

So she's a liar or a stupid bitch.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

I am no expert, so I would have no problem being corrected. Like 20 years ago, a professor was telling our class about some non-European white passing people groups, and Tatars were included in the discussion (that was the only one I could recall the name of).

*So I just cheated and asked perplexity, so feel free to fact check. Volga Tatars are not direct descendants of Europeans, but.... Europeans and Tatars have some overlapping prehistoric ancestry. So maybe it's like modern humans and modern apes. We didn't evolve from modern apes, but we share common ancestry, if you go back far enough (just a lazy analogy)

"White passing people groups"

Hahaha what a phrase, how can they be white but also pass as white at the same time?

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Also, most of you guys are borderline homosexual if you think Lupita is ugly.

She is STUNNING, 10 out of 10 face. Her beauty is worthy of Helen.

The problem with Lupita is she doesn't fit the classical short hair African hairstyle, and she uses it all the time. Makes her look like a little boy.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Also, most of you guys are borderline homosexual if you think Lupita is ugly.

She is STUNNING, 10 out of 10 face. Her beauty is worthy of Helen.

The problem with Lupita is she doesn't fit the classical short hair African hairstyle, and she uses it all the time. Makes her look like a little boy.

She's a 10?

 

[jason10mm]

Also, most of you guys are borderline homosexual if you think Lupita is ugly.

She is STUNNING, 10 out of 10 face. Her beauty is worthy of Helen.

The problem with Lupita is she doesn't fit the classical short hair African hairstyle, and she uses it all the time. Makes her look like a little boy.

Maybe you are gay if you think she is pretty?

I think she is attractive, especially with her hair grown out (just like Tati Gabrielle from that Interstellar game), the objections to her playing Helen in an ancient greece setting don't revolve around her bangability. Helen shouldn't be played by an Australian aboriginal, inuit, han chinese, or maori in this setting either, regardless of hotness.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Also, most of you guys are borderline homosexual if you think Lupita is ugly.

She is STUNNING, 10 out of 10 face. Her beauty is worthy of Helen.

The problem with Lupita is she doesn't fit the classical short hair African hairstyle, and she uses it all the time. Makes her look like a little boy.

Wait, you call people who don't find her attractive borderline homosexuals calling her a 10/10 yet say she can look like a little boy at times?

 

[Bojji]

Also, most of you guys are borderline homosexual if you think Lupita is ugly.

She is STUNNING, 10 out of 10 face. Her beauty is worthy of Helen.

The problem with Lupita is she doesn't fit the classical short hair African hairstyle, and she uses it all the time. Makes her look like a little boy.

Lupita is a good looking woman, but not the Helen of Troy.

Imagine if there was a Hollywood movie about this Chinese Princess:

You think Lupita would be a good casting choice to play her?

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Maybe you are gay if you think she is pretty?

I think she is attractive, especially with her hair grown out (just like Tati Gabrielle from that Interstellar game), the objections to her playing Helen in an ancient greece setting don't revolve around her bangability. Helen shouldn't be played by an Australian aboriginal, inuit, han chinese, or maori in this setting either, regardless of hotness.

I know, I don't think she should be playing Helen, but some on here are claiming she's some hag from a bush, when she clearly ain't.

 

[Saber]

Also, most of you guys are borderline homosexual if you think Lupita is ugly.

She is STUNNING, 10 out of 10 face. Her beauty is worthy of Helen.

The problem with Lupita is she doesn't fit the classical short hair African hairstyle, and she uses it all the time. Makes her look like a little boy.

Saying that she is not fit for the role of beauty enought to start a war or just call her a mid/ok doesn't equate to her being ugly(or people being homosexual, please stop this stupidity).

Again, this is just low effort dumb twitter type of argument. Its just like asking people what they prefer, donuts or waffles. Someone answers donut and you say "why do you hate waffles?"