-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Office | In defense of Season 8 and 9...But also not.
- Thread starter AlphaSnake
- Start date
ThLunarian
Member
I wish we could have gotten a few scenes with both Michael Scott and Robert California
HawksWinStanley
Member
The Office ended for me at the Season 5 finale when you find out Pam and Jim are pregnant. It took a sharp decline after that imo and became borderline unwatchable. Just zero laughs from me.
Andy was always a dick. He was so annoying even Michael Scott didn't want to hang out with him.
yep, kinda funny that back then at least half of TV GAF kept saying that he's the worst character and he needs to go. Be careful what you wish for..
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Latter seasons were still hilarious
The episode at Robert California's house and Gabe still crack me up.
The episode at Robert California's house and Gabe still crack me up.
blame space
Banned
what's with Jim downing a bottle of wine and then peeling out wasted on Robert California's front yard at the end of that episode
I like that he didn't feel the need to intervene when Angela was trying to murder Oscar.
Or when Michael was going to commit suicide by jumping off the roof.
Or the other hundred times people's lives were in actual danger on the show.
I just want to say that season 5 is awesome. Usually people list 2 or 3 as the best but I actually put 5 at the top. The Michael Scott Paper Company arc was amazing and I thought it ended too soon.
To be honest, I think The Office missed a chance to reinvent itself with season 6. It should have started with MSPC actually being a success. No more Dunder-Mifflin. Completely shake up the show.
Instead, they went back to work at the regular job and the show was never really able to come up with an interesting job-related story again. Having MSPC be a success, giving the characters a new set, new roles, etc. would have made for a more exciting season 6 and potentially forward.
(The wedding episode was perfect though.)
To be honest, I think The Office missed a chance to reinvent itself with season 6. It should have started with MSPC actually being a success. No more Dunder-Mifflin. Completely shake up the show.
Instead, they went back to work at the regular job and the show was never really able to come up with an interesting job-related story again. Having MSPC be a success, giving the characters a new set, new roles, etc. would have made for a more exciting season 6 and potentially forward.
(The wedding episode was perfect though.)
I am agahst at how many of you like Robert California. He was completely pointless and unfunny. His mannerisms were annoying and the way he spoke made no sense at all.
Every scene he's in I want to fast forward through because I know it won't be funny. And I'm right. Every time I rewatch the show; he's still not funny and completely pointless.
Also the Andy/Erin romance was an unnecessary retread of Jim/Pam. I still enjoyed the show because I like the characters, but season 8 and 9 were uneven and not very funny.
Every scene he's in I want to fast forward through because I know it won't be funny. And I'm right. Every time I rewatch the show; he's still not funny and completely pointless.
Also the Andy/Erin romance was an unnecessary retread of Jim/Pam. I still enjoyed the show because I like the characters, but season 8 and 9 were uneven and not very funny.
Maximus.
Member
Your defense of Andy is surprising. He was such an annoying character and didn't deserve to be manager. I hated that character. Should've been gone after season 3. I thought season 8 overall was terrible. Season 9 wasn't the best, but it ended well. I think the thing I hated most was the shift from a documentary style show with what seemed like real people and moments, to a sitcom, where everyone was an extreme representation of their character quirks.
What is the general opinion on Ryan in the later seasons, I started hated him mid-season 5, after he came back, he didn't really do much beside take advantage of Micheal and creepily obsess over Kelly.
Also, Season 9 has one of the funniest tag scenes in the show. Dwight and Angela asking Toby about Homosexuality
Also, Season 9 has one of the funniest tag scenes in the show. Dwight and Angela asking Toby about Homosexuality
yeah that's the GOAT prank
crimzonflame
Member
On subsequent re-watches I just cant make past halfway through season 5.
ThLunarian
Member
Ryan is three completely different characters through the life of the show.
He starts off as a mild mannered Everyman who is just trying to keep his head down and survive in an office full of ludicrous personalities. He actually might be intended as someone the audience can relate to, to ground the show in reality at least a little bit.
Then he becomes Michael's boss out of nowhere and turns into a total dick to everyone, using that dickishness as a mask for his loneliness. This is a very sudden change, but it could possibly count as a progression from his original character, as someone who acquired too much power too quickly, didn't know how to handle it, and spiraled out of control.
Then the next time he returns, in season 6 or so, he is a hipster doofus conman cartoon character who has nothing in common with either prior incarnation. He stays that way for the rest of the series.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Ryan is basically the epitome of a douche.
And Kelly was his counterpart. They deserved each other. I just can't believe he abandoned a baby...
Rapscallion
Member
I recently rewatched the entire series, and season 8 and 9 weren't as bad as I remembered. I 100% agree that a lot of the characters became cookie-cutter, "cute" versions of their former selves, but overall the character arcs are relatively decent. Characters like Plop and Dwight Jr. were unnecessary, but characters like Nellie have their moments and the final few episodes are nice ways to wrap the series up.
A shadow of the amazing work in seasons 2-4, but not the train wreck that people make it out to be.
A shadow of the amazing work in seasons 2-4, but not the train wreck that people make it out to be.
I think hipster doofus Ryan is a good continuation of dickhead boss Ryan. Ryan got so much power so quickly and started to think his shit didn't stink, which leads him to think his hipster con ideas like WOOF are actually good
Zombie James
Banned
The show started going downhill once Jim and Pam got together. Before then it was fantastic. There were still good episodes after that but that friction was really missing.
crimzonflame
Member
I agree. Once Jim and Pam got together, their purpose was done. Dwight and Michael pretty much had to carry the show.
I think they could have stretched the Jim + Pam getting together for 1 more season. They should have kept Karen too.
SafeinSound
Member
One of my favorite shows of all time, but as everyone has said, the last few seasons were painful for me to get through. But I'm really glad I did. It ends well, but could of ended a lot sooner.
BlueLiquid
Member
I agree. The first three seasons were some of the best comedy on TV but once Jim and Pam got together, that was pretty much it. I think season 4 was when Greg Daniels started working on Parks and Recreation, too, which is when it started declining and we saw more broad, less grounded material. He was still on The Office credits but was putting most of his time into P&R.
And like others mentioned, so many characters changed, not in a natural progression way, but essentially being totally rewritten, especially Kevin, Ryan, and Andy. But even Jim and Pam went from being two people just trying to make it in a bad job in a declining industry with a bad boss and annoying co-workers to the "cool kids" in the office who were above the rest.
iPaul93
Member
Are you kidding me? Robert California was the best thing of the post-Michael Scott episodes
Yea...no.I hated this guy and I think most people hate him too.
DiamondDog74
Banned
Camera guy arc was a huge waste of time. Will Ferrel was not a good fit either
Just rewatched most of the series recently. Went straight from Goodbye Michael to the series finale and was done with it.
My only regret was watching the 5 minutes or so of the end of Goodbye Michael, after Michael had left. The show legit dropped off a quality cliff the SECOND his character was gone, didn't even make it to the end of the episode. Those 5 minutes of Will Ferrell grabbing fistfuls of cake were a microcosm of the next 2 seasons. Forced, not particularly funny, bad chemistry, etc.
My only regret was watching the 5 minutes or so of the end of Goodbye Michael, after Michael had left. The show legit dropped off a quality cliff the SECOND his character was gone, didn't even make it to the end of the episode. Those 5 minutes of Will Ferrell grabbing fistfuls of cake were a microcosm of the next 2 seasons. Forced, not particularly funny, bad chemistry, etc.
A lot of the characterization could likely be attributed to the huge ratings increase they got from season 2 to 3 and onward. I would guess that since the network hedged their bets on The Office after it was basically their only show worth a damn in like 06 they ended up interfering quite a bit and caused problems with the writers.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
The worst thing shows can do is stretch out a 'will they won't they' situation. I'm glad the show simply got it over with in 3 seasons.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Agreed. I felt it was a pretty perfect amount of time to.
One of the problems after Jim and Pam get together is that it coincides with the show going from 30 minutes to hour long (with commercial time considered). The longer episodes were awful. Combine that with the writers struggling to find a new footing after Jim/Pam got together and yeah...season 4 struggled. The show recovered when it shortened episodes back to the normal, and it got settled on Jim and Pam not being the center of the show anymore. Of course, once Michael left it went back to hell.
Any idea why we had a season with longer episodes? I've never looked into it.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
So Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey are genuinely best friends outside of the show. Hah, that's pretty cool.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
I wanted to Google and see if anyone else noticed something in "Goodbye Michael". And found this:
LMAO. I don't even remember making these posts in the The Office OT thread!
But seriously, how did more people not catch this?
LMAO. I don't even remember making these posts in the The Office OT thread!
But seriously, how did more people not catch this?
elrechazado
Banned
Robert California was hilarious for the four minutes he was there during the interview episode. They made the mistake of thinking he could be a full, recurring character. Jim Carrey's finger lakes guy was just as good, same as Ray Romano's, but they didn't try to force them in.
I fell off and stopped watching when it was on TV during like season 4, so I've been going through the whole show again on Netflix.
First five seasons are brilliant and I actually enjoyed S6 as well. I'm in the middle of S7 now and it's dipped a little, but it's still pretty good with some awesome episodes.
I can see the "Goodbye Michael" episode coming up on the list and I'm dreading it. Tough to imagine the show without Michael Scott, but I'm determined to get through every season so we'll see.
First five seasons are brilliant and I actually enjoyed S6 as well. I'm in the middle of S7 now and it's dipped a little, but it's still pretty good with some awesome episodes.
I can see the "Goodbye Michael" episode coming up on the list and I'm dreading it. Tough to imagine the show without Michael Scott, but I'm determined to get through every season so we'll see.
blame space
Banned
i agree.
sent from my iPhone
sent from my iPhone
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Season 2 is nothing but a dam fine show. I think almost every episode was gold.
The Jackdog
Member
his character just kept doing more and more completely unlikeable things.
you were rooting for him to fail
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
My top three cold opens:
Asian Jim
Fire (Dwight's)
Darryl's "birthday"
Absolutely hilarious, the three of them.
I'm rewatching the series right now for the third time, and good lord is it good.
I thought that Season 9 was the best towards the end, when Andy is away during that three months. It seemed like the actors were so comfortable with their characters and it allowed them to let loose.
And then Andy comes back and I'm so glad they made him into the douche he is... although he redeems himself a bit.
I thought that Season 9 was the best towards the end, when Andy is away during that three months. It seemed like the actors were so comfortable with their characters and it allowed them to let loose.
And then Andy comes back and I'm so glad they made him into the douche he is... although he redeems himself a bit.
blame space
Banned
daryl's birthday is so fucking good. the quotes on the card get me every time.
Ninja Scooter
Member
A lot of the characters go through these random and unneccesary changes seemingly just to fit a storyline. It's what makes a lot of the later seasons bad for me. Dwight goes from being too scared to speak to the girl selling purses to being a ladies man like 2 seasons later would pam's cousin. Andy goes from being annoying and overly cocky to this shy, timid "nice guy" without Erin. The show was at its best when Michael was really the only exaggerated character that everyone else played off of.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I loved the show from beginning to end, even the generally panned final seasons. I found the Nellie, Robert California and Will Ferrel stuff funny. And I loved Andy as a dick. And increasingly dumb Kevin. And dick Ryan was GOAT character material. Still, they definitely ended the show at the last possible moment.
As someone who has watched the Office a few times through now and absolutely loves it, I had to leave comments in bold OP:
I can't pretend Season 8 and 9 don't change things up a bit, but I was so connected to the characters at this point, I actually really enjoyed it. The season finale makes me tear up every time.
The only character I didn't really care for was Nellie. She was just annoying to me, and I don't think I laughed once with or at her. I like how she gets with Toby at the end though, that melted my goddamn heart.
Also, upon multiple rewatches, as much as I love Michael, his character runs a little dry. He is just too dumb to get any meaningful depth, depth that I found in other relationships and friendships within the office. In many ways, he's as one-dimensional as Kelly or Ryan. Atleast in the end, when he comes to the wedding and has grey hairs, you really get the impression he has matured into an adult.
I can't pretend Season 8 and 9 don't change things up a bit, but I was so connected to the characters at this point, I actually really enjoyed it. The season finale makes me tear up every time.
The only character I didn't really care for was Nellie. She was just annoying to me, and I don't think I laughed once with or at her. I like how she gets with Toby at the end though, that melted my goddamn heart.
Also, upon multiple rewatches, as much as I love Michael, his character runs a little dry. He is just too dumb to get any meaningful depth, depth that I found in other relationships and friendships within the office. In many ways, he's as one-dimensional as Kelly or Ryan. Atleast in the end, when he comes to the wedding and has grey hairs, you really get the impression he has matured into an adult.
Zeyphersan
Banned
So I just got to season 8, first time getting this far. I thought the show took a noticeable drop in quality starting with season 6, with season 7 even a further step down. Dont know how Im going to finish the last two
Adam_Vania
Banned
ive been bingeing this as well. season 2 is the peak, Jan is the best foil for Michael, she is the Margaret Dumont to his Groucho Marx.
past that it gets icky. part of the humor of the early seasons that works is that Michael is so inept and yet it is believable that he would succeed in this environment. after he leaves the company it is less believable. Holly was an interesting idea but it sort of brought out Michael's creep side a little much.
Michael being a creep was kind of one of the underlying things about the show and it's funny to watch this in a post-Trump world now with that in mind. egotism, narcissism, misogyny, casual racism, failing upwards, all of it is celebrated in the character of Michael as "well, he's just quirky!" Michael is never really treated as a villain for this, sure he has ups and downs in episodes, but as the show goes on he moves into a mentor/fatherly role where everyone is sentimental about this monster who hasn't really learned anything.
past that it gets icky. part of the humor of the early seasons that works is that Michael is so inept and yet it is believable that he would succeed in this environment. after he leaves the company it is less believable. Holly was an interesting idea but it sort of brought out Michael's creep side a little much.
Michael being a creep was kind of one of the underlying things about the show and it's funny to watch this in a post-Trump world now with that in mind. egotism, narcissism, misogyny, casual racism, failing upwards, all of it is celebrated in the character of Michael as "well, he's just quirky!" Michael is never really treated as a villain for this, sure he has ups and downs in episodes, but as the show goes on he moves into a mentor/fatherly role where everyone is sentimental about this monster who hasn't really learned anything.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
It's crzy how much older James Spader looks coming off his role in latter seasons before jumping onto The Blacklist
Hispanic! At the Disco
Member
For me it was great and I loved every episode (except fun run) up until will ferrel came on.
I tried my best to keep watching even after he left, but outside of a few moments here and there I gave up. Barely saw any of season 8 and only saw the last episode of season 9. Oh and my wife showed me the radio show bit. That was alright.
From the beginning of the show till its end, every character slowly devolves into cartoony caricatures of their former selves and by season 8 I just couldnt take it anymore.
I tried my best to keep watching even after he left, but outside of a few moments here and there I gave up. Barely saw any of season 8 and only saw the last episode of season 9. Oh and my wife showed me the radio show bit. That was alright.
From the beginning of the show till its end, every character slowly devolves into cartoony caricatures of their former selves and by season 8 I just couldnt take it anymore.
I thought the same thing but it's worth just going through with it. It gets really good towards the end.
J.W. Stillwater
Member
I can't think of a show that squandered more goodwill than The Office. It used to be my favorite show at one time but I can't look back at it fondly because those last few seasons were truly awful (and it didn't help that Parks and Rec came by and was a better show).