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The Official Religion Thread
- Thread starter U5230
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I don't know if this topic has been hit yet, but why is the Bible the ultimate source, for Christan at least. It's not the first religious text by any margin. Even if you say something like the people who wrote the Torah didn't get it right, and Jesus set things straight, can you just ignore the Koran? Mohamed did pretty much the same thing.
Lucifer was charmin' too, if y'know what I mean.jdogmoney said:Mumei, you've got me watching Youtube videos with Dawkins in them! It's okay, I wasn't planning on sleeping anyway, so you've given me something to do.
It's funny how much people hate this charming little British guy.
jdogmoney said:Mumei, you've got me watching Youtube videos with Dawkins in them! It's okay, I wasn't planning on sleeping anyway, so you've given me something to do.
It's funny how much people hate this charming little British guy.
There's a really, really great playlist on that channel of him having a sort of... informal conversation / interview with George Coyne, who is a described on The Wiki as being, "a Jesuit priest, astronomer, and former director of the Vatican Observatory and head of the observatorys research group which is based at the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona."
It's a very interesting discussion, and it is quite pleasant, too.
jdogmoney said:
On Book 3. As deluded as he might be (I mean, the fact is, God is omnipotent and the rebelling angels... aren't), he certainly has a way with words.
Have you read The Divine Comedy? I just finished that late last year. Inferno > Purgatorio > Paradiso, for me. Paradiso was not nearly as interesting in terms of imagery as either of the previous two, and I never really felt like the horrors we saw earlier were sufficiently justified (what justification there was essentially boiled down to "God is just, so their punishment is just"). I did really enjoy the fact that Dante had this great habit of bending the rules for certain historical figures whom he liked, though. For instance, Trajan got to be up in Heaven - in a pretty high sphere, as I recall - because of prayers that brought him to that level, instead of him being stuck in Limbo with all the other Perfectly Good People Before Jesus.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
Regarding your first paragraph, it would seem to be a pretty good bet. If you lined up fossils from when they first appeared on the scene, then it's no surprise that we see a general gradation (though still room for variation) to man. If evolution was not true, then there is no coherent expectation for such fossils. God could easily have created a flying primate with three hearts and reptile eyes instead. But with evolution, there must be an evolutionary pathway between us and our primate brethren. The very fact of taxonomy is a powerful argument for evolution. To even argue about gaps is to admit the possible evolutionary pathway between two organisms. Here's a cool chart about hominin brain size:Dogenzaka said:
You see some variation, but you also see a general trend to bigger brain, which itself is powerful evidence that consciousness can evolve (since consciousness can exist in various states anyway, as we can see as a human ages from birth to maturity). Again, the fact that this happens not only with humans, but many, many other possible organisms just strains credulity that any other process besides evolution is responsible. Of course the mechanism for evolution is important, but I think that one can be convinced just by looking at this kind of evidence too.
Mumei said:
There's a really, really great playlist on that channel of him having a sort of... informal conversation / interview with George Coyne, who is a described on The Wiki as being, "a Jesuit priest, astronomer, and former director of the Vatican Observatory and head of the observatorys research group which is based at the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona."
It's a very interesting discussion, and it is quite pleasant, too.
On Book 3. As deluded as he might be (I mean, the fact is, God is omnipotent and the rebelling angels... aren't), he certainly has a way with words.
Have you read The Divine Comedy? I just finished that late last year. Inferno > Purgatorio > Paradiso, for me. Paradiso was not nearly as interesting in terms of imagery as either of the previous two, and I never really felt like the horrors we saw earlier were sufficiently justified (what justification there was essentially boiled down to "God is just, so their punishment is just"). I did really enjoy the fact that Dante had this great habit of bending the rules for certain historical figures whom he liked, though. For instance, Trajan got to be up in Heaven - in a pretty high sphere, as I recall - because of prayers that brought him to that level, instead of him being stuck in Limbo with all the other Perfectly Good People Before Jesus.
Video bookmarked.
Haven't gotten around to the Divine Comedy yet, but I'm planning on it.
I got distracted by Ricky Gervais discussing the Bible.
EDIT: These related videos are changing my mood drastically.
Gervais:
Bill O'Reilly/Kirk Cameron talking about atheism: Crocoduck :lol
Bill O'Reilly/Kirk Cameron talking about gay marriage: :|
The View arguing about gay marriages: :\
*quick search*
Kirk Cameron talking about a banana: :lol
jdogmoney said:
As far as I remember it had nothing to do with the death of an animal. It was that Abel gave up his best and Cain did not. Able gave the first born of his flock with their best parts, but it does not say Cain gave the best of his crop or even a large portion of it.
onipex said:
Genesis 4:2-5
"...Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast."
Seems God isn't a vegetarian.
Aaron said:
A religious text being first or last is irrelevant. Any person looking for religion should look for the one that's right. For Christians, the book that talks about the person they follow and how he came on the scene would be the correct one.
Now if a person had a buffett table of religious texts in front of them to choose, some willl choose any number of texts but for the one that wants to be Christian, they would logically pick the Bible.
It's easy to ignore other texts because they are not germaine to the faith chosen. Although God may technically be the center of the three religions, the Torah's focus isn't on Jesus and the Koran's focus is primarily on another person. So what's the point of thinking of them as the ultimate source if they don't have the ultimate source for the faith?
Zaptruder said:
Please use your non-gymnastic abillity to explain how they contradict each other? Have you doene that yet? I didn't think so.
Zaptruder said:
Uhh, I never talked about omnipotence and I disagree with you view of omniscience. No one is redefining anything, I just know how people hate dictionaries around here.
Zaptruder said:
I'm not doing that. Why can you not get that through your [thick?] head that I am referencing what is said he can do in the Bible. This has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it (Who cares?) or my opinion. It has to do with your reading ability which you fail at.
You expect me to reject what the Scripture says in favor of your whacky theory about him which makes no sense to begin with? Then I'm supposed to take whacky theory and extend it to the 40 or so other writers that failed in comparison to your genius fallacy finding skills? Riiiggghhhttt.
Really? I think it's a pretty common objection to God's moral perfection. And actually, this is the first time I've heard that she was just sent off to the temple!
Let's take a look:It seems pretty clearly stated that he sacrificed her. I cut some parts out but I didn't see anything in there about her not being sacrificed. But I actually got all that text from an apologetics site which seems to be arguing for her going to the temple: http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jepthah.html And since we're sharing youtube videos, here's a cartoon version which I find amusing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt66kbYmXXk It's from an atheist though, so you know which stance it's going to take.
I don't think there's anything controversial about that. Killing can be necessary sometimes, I just don't see how it was necessary in multiple OT passages. I think you can understand that for someone who doesn't already believe the Bible, the stuff in there can seem pretty crazy.
Dabookerman
Member
This is a simple question really. Interested to know. Everyone who believes in Creationism, or does not believe in the fact of evolution, where are you from?
That's all.
That's all.
JGS said:
People have pointed out the contradictions of an all good, all powerful, all knowing god repeatedly in this thread.
But to reiterate, the problems of evil, suffering, etc means that such an entity is contradicted.
You might wish to delve into the warmup arguments of free will and all that; but then why is having free will considered a good thing? Better than the requisite and untold amounts of suffering that we go through in order to have it, including the large chance for eternal anguish and suffering (if we are to believe religion)?
Moreover, do we really have free will, or an illusion of free will?
Do you have the free will to jump 10 meters into the air?
Do you have the free will to cut your own arm off right now? It may be 'physically' possible, but your own sense of self preservation and a whole host of other very good reasons remove it as a remote possibility.
You might even mentally consider it right now; but the gulf between you actually cutting your arm off, and simply toying with the idea is the gulf between free will and the illusion of free will.
Your view of omniscience/all knowing is that such a being has the ability to choose to know anything he damn well pleases. The common view of omniscience/all knowing is that it is as dictionary defines: Infinite knowledge.
It may seem a small distinction, but the complete and utter bullshit you pull here marks the kind of mental gymnastic bullshit that you regularly pull to make the non-cohesive ideas of the bible and religion work in your mind.
And when are you going to get it through your thick head that the bible and other holy books are written so vaguely, so poorly, that it allows for all manners of disingenious interpretation. My interpretation in your opinion is disingenious, in my opinion, your interpretation is also disingenious. Who is right? Who is wrong?
I'm able to reconcile (to a large extent) the nature of the bible with the natural evidence of the world, so I'd argue that I have the better interpretation, but of course, you'll be arguing otherwise.
No of course I don't expect you to reject the ideas and notions that you've built your life around. To do so would cause a mental cave-in that you're simply not ready to face.
That is the nature of faith, and if you have it, all the evidence, arguments, rationality... none of it will shake your belief in the thing in which you have faith.
Now that might sound awesome to you religious folk, but that is to us non-theists the mark of absolute delusion.
Peronthious
Member
Dogenzaka said:
Oh, so you've talked to an animal other than a human recently? I'd love to know what it was like.
Dogenzaka said:
The original point of this thread was to have some organized discussion point on everyone's religious beliefs, not to shove all the religious people in a corner so the atheists can throw rocks. I wish it'd return to that, but with GAF I suppose ending up like this was inevitable.
Upon further consideration, let me further expound on the issue of free will.
While the idea of cutting your arm off might be considered a strawman; I'm using it to highlight how restricted the range of things you'd actually consider doable are.
Fair enough; you act within reason and circumstance, but you can still have free will right?
Well, that's where it becomes hazier. While I'm a proponent for an illusion of free will, the argument of free will in religious terms is that god provides the free will to humans to worship him or not.
For the sake of this argument, I'll simply snipe at that position.
For people to have the free will to worship god, his presence would first have to be revealed.
Unless you're particularly ignorant, you'll be able to accept that in human history, not all humans have had the presence of your particular god revealed to them.
Why are these people then condemned to hell for not even getting the chance to know him? Mayans, aztecs, ancient africans, persians, greeks, romans, ancient chinese, japanese, the list goes on.
Even if we accept that free will is universal, then even though these people may have had the free will to do and act as they please, they did not have the free will to choose to believe and accept in the only path to salvation, because god chose to not reveal himself to these people.
But removing ourselves a step away from that problem (which has disturbing implications in what god and ultimately christians, view as 'people (deserving the right to have a chance at salvation and eternal life)' and 'all other people')...
In the modern world, where communication is rife, then the majority of the world will have at least heard about god, religion and all that.
You may argue then that god has given these people a chance to know him, and yet they don't take.
To which I then ask; how likely...
How likely are you to worship god, if you only hear about him as the religion of another culture?
How likely are you to look into the worship of all those religions and beliefs and see if it meshes with your thinking?
Have you done so for the other religions and gods? Hinduism? Islam? Judaism? Buddhism? What about all the various denominations of such?
How likely are you to look into religion and worship, if religion has wronged you? If crusaders came and slaughtered your family, your friends, the people you know, in the name of their religion?
How likely are you to look into religion and worship, if you are able to spot all the logical inconsistencies in religion and all the artifacts of religion?
Or if you have studied into anthropology, and have found the many connections between the evolution of more primitive religions and those worshipped today.
The examples can go on practically infinitely.
But the point is, what kind of all loving, all good god allows for this massive level of asymmetry between his people in their chances of getting to know and accept him as the only path of salvation?
Without sniping at just that idea, and more generally on free will, simply ask yourself why you consider something to be, why you have made a certain decision. And keep asking yourself why... if you do so honestly enough, without simply cutting it short abruptly by insisting on freewill, then you'll come to the realization that even in simple decisions, there are a host of many factors that work to support your decision; and that many of those factors have not necessarily been in your control, and that those that appear to have been in your control then, are no longer in your control now, but that your decision and action relies in those factors nonetheless.
Free will is an illusion... like smoke. We can see the mass the volume of it... but we cannot see the particles that make it up; the closer we get, the more we inspect it, the wispier the idea of free will gets. (technically flawed analogy, but it is adequate in illustrating the point at this time.)
While the idea of cutting your arm off might be considered a strawman; I'm using it to highlight how restricted the range of things you'd actually consider doable are.
Fair enough; you act within reason and circumstance, but you can still have free will right?
Well, that's where it becomes hazier. While I'm a proponent for an illusion of free will, the argument of free will in religious terms is that god provides the free will to humans to worship him or not.
For the sake of this argument, I'll simply snipe at that position.
For people to have the free will to worship god, his presence would first have to be revealed.
Unless you're particularly ignorant, you'll be able to accept that in human history, not all humans have had the presence of your particular god revealed to them.
Why are these people then condemned to hell for not even getting the chance to know him? Mayans, aztecs, ancient africans, persians, greeks, romans, ancient chinese, japanese, the list goes on.
Even if we accept that free will is universal, then even though these people may have had the free will to do and act as they please, they did not have the free will to choose to believe and accept in the only path to salvation, because god chose to not reveal himself to these people.
But removing ourselves a step away from that problem (which has disturbing implications in what god and ultimately christians, view as 'people (deserving the right to have a chance at salvation and eternal life)' and 'all other people')...
In the modern world, where communication is rife, then the majority of the world will have at least heard about god, religion and all that.
You may argue then that god has given these people a chance to know him, and yet they don't take.
To which I then ask; how likely...
How likely are you to worship god, if you only hear about him as the religion of another culture?
How likely are you to look into the worship of all those religions and beliefs and see if it meshes with your thinking?
Have you done so for the other religions and gods? Hinduism? Islam? Judaism? Buddhism? What about all the various denominations of such?
How likely are you to look into religion and worship, if religion has wronged you? If crusaders came and slaughtered your family, your friends, the people you know, in the name of their religion?
How likely are you to look into religion and worship, if you are able to spot all the logical inconsistencies in religion and all the artifacts of religion?
Or if you have studied into anthropology, and have found the many connections between the evolution of more primitive religions and those worshipped today.
The examples can go on practically infinitely.
But the point is, what kind of all loving, all good god allows for this massive level of asymmetry between his people in their chances of getting to know and accept him as the only path of salvation?
Without sniping at just that idea, and more generally on free will, simply ask yourself why you consider something to be, why you have made a certain decision. And keep asking yourself why... if you do so honestly enough, without simply cutting it short abruptly by insisting on freewill, then you'll come to the realization that even in simple decisions, there are a host of many factors that work to support your decision; and that many of those factors have not necessarily been in your control, and that those that appear to have been in your control then, are no longer in your control now, but that your decision and action relies in those factors nonetheless.
Free will is an illusion... like smoke. We can see the mass the volume of it... but we cannot see the particles that make it up; the closer we get, the more we inspect it, the wispier the idea of free will gets. (technically flawed analogy, but it is adequate in illustrating the point at this time.)
DeusTrinitas
Banned
soul creator said:
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.' Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." --1 Corinthians 1:18-25
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
jdogmoney said:
You'd think a god that loved all his creations equally and with unconditional love could find it in his mighty heart of hearts to not choose favorites. Ah well.
Peronthious
Member
Zaptruder said:
I think it's foolish to scream at those with religious beliefs that their holy text could not possibly be 100% true, and then hold them to not being able to believe anything other than that. I am an atheist now (at least in the sense that I don't believe in a dogmatic, theological God), but I was raised as a Christian, and it's not as if someone sat down at wrote each book of the Bible thinking it'd make a good story. Those who espouse every word of it as true are free to do so, but I think that much of the Bible came from people who experienced something so amazing that they couldn't find any way to express it other than in supernatural language. Suppose you've just escaped from your slave masters and you're running with everyone you know across this vast marshy expanse. Behind you, you see hundreds of angry men chasing after you, some in chariots, some on horseback. All of the sudden they sink into the marsh, their chariots stuck and their horses refusing to continue, leaving you to flee safely. Do you think you'd attribute your escape to some supernatural being who has some personal stake in your people's existence? If I had lived then and was full of panic, not entirely aware of what was going on, I certainly would have. It's this event, this escape from Egypt, that convinced millenia of Jewish people that the Israelites were somehow the chosen people of God, who he had brought out of slavery to bring his light to the world. Even if the Jews were never Egyptian slaves (which I doubt, since I find it unlikely that someone sat down and made up the whole fantastic story with absolutely no factual basis), they must have experienced something that made them think that God was watching over them. It's these unexplainable events, these unexplainable feelings that people can't reconcile with reality, that drives people to supernatural explanations. In a few earlier posts I have said that Jesus most certainly existed and he was a remarkable individual, and he certainly must have been! To have such a lasting impact on a culture that hundreds of thousands of people shortly after his death are compelled to reject previously held religious beliefs and completely change their religious focus? He must have lead an amazing life and brought hope to many people.
Do I believe in God, as in a singular being who acted as the divine architect for live, the universe, and everything? No. But I do believe that there is something divine about the force which drives people like Jesus, people like Mohammed, people like Siddhartha Guatama. It's this same force which drives the remarkable people of today, from Gandhi to King to many others who are compelled to reject traditional and cultural boundaries in favor of what they believe is right, and is the force that others perceive in them when religious conviction is invoked.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
jdogmoney said:Mumei, you've got me watching Youtube videos with Dawkins in them! It's okay, I wasn't planning on sleeping anyway, so you've given me something to do.
It's funny how much people hate this charming little British guy.
I got to meet him and still have my signed copy of the God delusion. When he shook my hand, I said "I'm surprised you weren't shot."
It was his first time down to the deep south (Birmingham, AL) and I got to go to the debate for free as a student. good times.
Zaptruder said:
No they didn't, least of all you. You just put out an opinion and took a "for us or against us" stance. Guess which one I picked.
Zaptruder said:
Who said it was? That's like asking what's so great about being retarded. It is what it is. Even if it's not the best option, I've seen a lot of happy retarded people:lol . So despite the mistakes made, I'm pretty happy I can make my own decisions, even if I'm too stupid to realize it's an illusion or not. Further God is good for giving us the option.
Free will is what is given to us. We make choices on the basis of it. Take God out of the equation and the choices we make are still good or bad ones and we face repercussions. This is why it's silly to blame something that doesn't exist for our problems.
Further, it's even sillier to blame God if you believe in him since the whole text a person's faith is based on says that you choose your path. Why would it be God's fault if one's say "No Thanks" to worshipping him? This includes Satan.
Zaptruder said:
Of course we are bound physical laws, secular laws, moral laws, as well as our own conscience. Free will is not the same thing as being completely free from all constraints which would include the entire universe. Free will is simply being able to do what you're able to do.
I agree with the dictionary definition.Zaptruder said:
The problem is you are putting a time constraint on it which no dictionary I've seen places. It presumes that in Bible times, the writers knew that God could see all at all times when they repeatedly says he doesn't (Not that he desn't have the ability to). He can clearly turn it off and on. The Holy Skeptic site of Wikipedia even says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscience
YOU are the one that is placing the time constraint on the definition. That's fine for you to do if you like, but don't imply you know more than any run of the mill religious person on the subject just because you stick to one verse whereas I stick to several plus the entire theme of the Bible. That is known as being stuck on stupid. Again this is the Bible's view- not yours or mine. So take it up with them. If that makes you convinced the Bible is a bunch of hogwash so be it- Free will at work.
Strawman? One issue at a time. The Bible is clear about God's abilities of knowledge. Don't replace your inability/refusal to to read it on vagueries and poor writing.Zaptruder said:
I'm able to reconcile (to a large extent) the nature of the bible with the natural evidence of the world, so I'd argue that I have the better interpretation, but of course, you'll be arguing otherwise.[/quote]
You are correct that I think I can prove the Bible with natural evidence so maybe you have no correct interpretation.
Since you've gotten the first chapter of the first book so horribly wrong, I question your ability on the remainder of it. You cannot understand somethng you don't read.
Once again, you don't know me well enough to know my history. However, you should have read enough in this thread to know that I rejected religion as easily as you. I just didn't close my brain to the possiblity I was wrong.Zaptruder said:
Further, you flatter yourself way to much to think you have the reasoning ability to change anyone's mind on something. Your whole argument is "Because I said so", and that's supposed to convince me of something? OK.
JGS said:
If that's what you've been reading and comprehending this entire time, than I'm quite sure that your ability to read and your power of comprehension is signifcantly worse than my own, which you've taken shots against several times now.
While on some level I'd enjoy taking apart every single post you've made in this thread, line by line... I'm pretty certain that it would take far too much of my time, for far too little result. As I've already explained, the nature of the faithful are such that their minds can't be changed so trivially.
But I laugh at you conflating whatever non-faith you claim to have had with my position.
And with that, I'm done with our little 'conversation'.
So I think it's wise we steer away the discussion from issues which will only end up in insults.
Does anyone like the idea of reincarnation?
I feel that if you don't keep your memories than it's pretty much the same as death, unless you can somehow retrieve all memories at some point in the reincarnation cycle.
We are our memories after all.
If you were to keep all memories between the various lives then it'd be pretty awesome, being born into a possibly new world and time yet still be the same person would be amazing.
Does anyone like the idea of reincarnation?
I feel that if you don't keep your memories than it's pretty much the same as death, unless you can somehow retrieve all memories at some point in the reincarnation cycle.
We are our memories after all.
If you were to keep all memories between the various lives then it'd be pretty awesome, being born into a possibly new world and time yet still be the same person would be amazing.
the_concierge
Member
I'm 23 and was raised Catholic. All my life I grew up learning about God, the Bible and Jesus through my school, my parents, visits to church. For many years I sincerely believed that the Catholic conception of God existed as described in the Bible. I can name countless times and experiences which provided me with tangible evidence that God existed.
Without going into too much detail, I'm at a point in my life where I'm experiencing intense cognitive dissonance regarding my faith. Aside from the conditioned mental cues in my mind which have been reinforced over the past 23 years I feel that I have become increasingly agnostic if not atheistic.
Needless to say, it's a fairly complex and emotional state to be in. Is anyone else experience / has anyone gone through a similar experience? What led you to that point? What was the outcome? I'm not looking for answers, just shared experiences.
Without going into too much detail, I'm at a point in my life where I'm experiencing intense cognitive dissonance regarding my faith. Aside from the conditioned mental cues in my mind which have been reinforced over the past 23 years I feel that I have become increasingly agnostic if not atheistic.
Needless to say, it's a fairly complex and emotional state to be in. Is anyone else experience / has anyone gone through a similar experience? What led you to that point? What was the outcome? I'm not looking for answers, just shared experiences.
Peronthious
Member
the_concierge said:
I was not raised Catholic, but this is exactly the sort of situation I was in not too long ago. I didn't really understand why I was supposed to believe any of the dogma that I heard every Sunday and had heard since childhood. What cleared up a lot of things for me was researching the origins of this dogma and learning about how the Bible has evolved over the centuries. I heavily recommend the book Jesus for the Non-Religious, by the retired Episcopalian bishop John Shelby *****. It goes in detail into the origins of the gospel traditions and on how the events may have been perceived at the time.
archnemesis
Member
I've not experienced the same thing myself, but there have been a few interesting threads dealing with similar situations.the_concierge said:
After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Dealing with an existential crisis
A Christian Deconversion (videos)
soul creator
Member
DeusTrinitas said:
You're the guy who believes in predestination right?
DeusTrinitas
Banned
soul creator said:
The Bible teaches predestination, so, yes, I believe in it. I don't know if that means I'm the guy you're thinking of or not, though.
Shanadeus said:
I love the idea of being able to replay my life knowing the things I know now.
It inevitably ends up as a memory game of all the big financial events that have occurred in the last 20-30 years however, as I fantasize about how I'd win a some sort of bet, use that money and churn it into the stock markets repeatedly, until I was sitting on top of billions of dollars.
Then I'd use that money to do the things I want to do now. (Invest in technology firms and direct the ebb and flow of technology that suits the way I view things).
But I don't think that's what you had in mind.
soul creator
Member
DeusTrinitas said:
Yes, that was you! Although I'm not quite sure how this meshes with the whole free will thing....but eh.
Mumei said:
not quite, but a good choir can sometimes bring me to tears.
Of course, no one should use that as evidence of god/spiritual beings, because Sigur Ros also can bring me to tears, and as far as I know, they're not deities.
DeusTrinitas
Banned
soul creator said:
I love Sigur Ros. I'm going to see Jonsi perform solo in Kansas later this month.
Count Dookkake
Member
Mumei said:
I can't help but like Stryper.
Dabookerman
Member
Mumei said:
Gregorian Music (Or monk music if you will) Is great.
Lots of great music inspired by choirs, and choirs themselves.
Furthermore, Church organs sounds sweet. Well, rather, Cathedral organs. Lovely.
Jesus Christ by Hyde, is awesome.
soul creator
Member
DeusTrinitas said:
yeah, I wish he or Sigur Ros would come to Texas at some point :lol
Btw, you can listen to his new album is on NPR
DeusTrinitas
Banned
soul creator said:
That's funny because I live in Texas. I'm actually driving up to Kansas to see him. I saw Sigur Ros when they were at Bass Hall in Fort Worth in 2006. They were amazing!
soul creator
Member
DeusTrinitas said:
damn, hardcore! Good luck with the drive, lol
the_concierge said:
Was a full believer in Sikhism or what was handed to me as religion that was pretty much barebones. I was expected to keep the faith whilst not been explained what I really needed faith in. Just the name of my religion, some traditions and to not lose it.
Most of my time regarding my religion was spent in the temple sitting and not knowing what the speaker said. I used the time to day dream but I still believed and followed all the random rituals.
I wasn't explained what was reality when I was young. So I truly believed in the evil guy from ghostbusters in the second film. I was paralysed with fear for 2 months, someone had to be in the room with me. Same thing with the film Aliens, before you guys rip into me, I was around 8 or something.
So I learn to unbelieve on my own in Aliens and Ghostbusters. Fucking difficult when you live in a house that makes a shitload of noise.
At the time I was 13, I got pretty much slapped in the face (metaphorically) one day which questioned all my beliefs at once. I was so shocked I didn't know what to do, who to speak to.
Ater a period of weeks I then proceeded on to logical reasoning, it was all I had left, seriously and begun to question my belief in god. First was, any proof that I have seen personally. Who actually believes? What else do they get out of it if God doesn't exist?
Pretty much left me towards power, corruption, all the negatives that outweighed the positives.
Well my teen years were really shitty, I was depressed, since I literally lost all my values that made me, me Well what I was taught that is what makes me.
I still get the question from my fellow believers, if your not a Sikh, then what are you?
I ended up questioning my parents on everything. My parents are 1st Generation Indian = lots of heated arguments.
With help from a few friends and literally a home tutor (I was dumb when I was in my early teens) I have learnt to accept what is, and I choose to ignore most forms of faith except in people. I still have a shitload of questions that need answering, but I prefer my new way of thinking to the latter, I see choices now that I never saw before. Its ridulous how much my personal freedom in thought cost me.
I wish it was easier!
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