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[Dacvak]

Seppo, will you be able to track users who buy chips? I would suspect a certain amount of players will both be bad at the game, but also have a bit of poker addition. I think it would be interesting to know how many people eventually spend $100+ on this.

lawblob, sorry I had to jump out earlier today. Class and such.

seppo, one idea I had for the Pro vs the Lite version; Give a daily allowance of $1500 for Pro users instead of the same amount for the Lite users. Either that, or decrease the Lite allowance to $500.

I really want you guys to make money on this product.

Another quick question: Is there any way to reset all of your stats (excluding cash)? Just curious. (Not sure why someone would want to.)

 

[ebeast]

Bought Pro this morning after I saw the quasi-ad on the chip page. Will probably go for the $20 package not because I need the in-game money but in support of the game. (I already won someone's first and second born children last night...)

Delurking to say, hi, my name is ebeast, and you now own my future children. And as I'm Seppo's wife, you own Seppo's future children too. Ha!!!

That is all.

p.s. You guys on neogaf are SO awesome! I've played some of you and you guys are the best of the bunch. Thanks for supporting the dev team!

 

[mrkgoo]

Delurking to say, hi, my name is ebeast, and you now own my future children. And as I'm Seppo's wife, you own Seppo's future children too. Ha!!!

That is all.

p.s. You guys on neogaf are SO awesome! I've played some of you and you guys are the best of the bunch. Thanks for supporting the dev team!

Hmmm. Seppo's kids, huh? I wonder I can trade them in for chips...

I think I played you early on, when the iPhone version just came out.


---

Anyway, for those wondering where everyone was, I was up until 2am playing WAP.


I don't rage at cheaters all that much, I just move on. And again, it's not against the rules per se - and it's going to get harder to distinguish as I've started using words I've picked up. Lol, although a friend of mine last night said he'd learnt Fez and Zek, but when I got the letters Z, E, and K, I remembered incorrectly and tried KEZ. My friend just laughed and gave me an epic fail.

The main problem is that if it gets really rampant, then it's going to get more difficult to find people who don't use aids. That's why I prefer to just play gaffers for the most part.

I don't find the length of time an annoyance most of the time, as I'm typically hitting the mix button to see if I can come up with anything better.

I've yet to replicate my run from early on these days, but still can't wait until the $4,000 tables hit, as well as the Donut button.

 

[ebeast]

Hmmm. Seppo's kids, huh? I wonder I can trade them in for chips...

I think I played you early on, when the iPhone version just came out.

Yup, we did. You'll have to get the kids back from Remy first though.

Now crawling back into my hole to lurkdom.

 

[mrkgoo]

So i just left a game with a few people apparently battling it out with 7 letter words.


I was pondering ways to get around the use of aids. I think the problem is not so much that it is considered cheatig, but that it doesn't make a level playing field for those that don't use them. ThiS of course is a bit hypocritical, because there would be no such thing as a level playing field as players abilities will always vary.

It's possible that people just don't consider it cheating. What about creating rooms where people are allowed to use aids I they want, but have rooms where aids are actively discouraged? At least that way you're not alienating anyone and them the use of aids in a non aids room IS actually cheating.

Sure it may nit actually change anything, but it then gives a clear message that aids are not tolerated in certain envionments.

 

[boutrosinit]

I really like this developer.

 

[Barrett2]

I still contend that a simple way to eliminate a lot of cheating / referencing is to reduce timer speed by 50%, at least for some tables. IMO, a reason a lot of people are using aids at all is because the timer is so slow, especially when a few players take their sweet time. If the waiting time between new letters / betting was seriously reduced, the number of people referencing dictionaries and anagram programs would drop like a rock.

 

[helava]

I still contend that a simple way to eliminate a lot of cheating / referencing is to reduce timer speed by 50%, at least for some tables. IMO, a reason a lot of people are using aids at all is because the timer is so slow, especially when a few players take their sweet time. If the waiting time between new letters / betting was seriously reduced, the number of people referencing dictionaries and anagram programs would drop like a rock.

We're looking into opening new tables with shorter timers - an "expert" option, if you will. Thing is, when someone first starts playing WA, the timer feels much too short. Particularly if they're not a "gamer," like most of the people here. So, in a future update, we'll almost certainly have a way to play with shorter timers.

Thanks!
seppo

 

[mrkgoo]

I still contend that a simple way to eliminate a lot of cheating / referencing is to reduce timer speed by 50%, at least for some tables. IMO, a reason a lot of people are using aids at all is because the timer is so slow, especially when a few players take their sweet time. If the waiting time between new letters / betting was seriously reduced, the number of people referencing dictionaries and anagram programs would drop like a rock.

I'm not sure this is the solution. Anagram programs are fast. Shortening times might have the opposite effect to where the only competitors who can identify the best word within seconds with an anagrammer can compete.

Think about it - by the time the seventh letter hits, there's an entire round of bidding. That's ample time regardless of the last chance to enter a word.

 

[Flunkie]

http://twitter.com/wordacecheats

 

[Flunkie]

I still contend that a simple way to eliminate a lot of cheating / referencing is to reduce timer speed by 50%, at least for some tables. IMO, a reason a lot of people are using aids at all is because the timer is so slow, especially when a few players take their sweet time. If the waiting time between new letters / betting was seriously reduced, the number of people referencing dictionaries and anagram programs would drop like a rock.

I would not like this idea. Making words takes some time. Making that time shorter would not be beneficial to legit players.

 

[helava]

http://twitter.com/wordacecheats

Ahoy. So, I dunno whether wordacecheats is anyone here, but it's not in any way related to Self Aware Games or Word Ace. I've asked them to change their name, and they've already graciously changed their icon. While I'm really glad that players are passionate about the game and want to do what they can to stop cheaters, having stuff like this where people are publicly accosting players makes our job a LOT more difficult.

Whatever you want to do via a hashtag in twitter is one thing, but from a feed using a trademarked name (and image) leads to confusion, which causes us trouble. re: cheating, we're working on it. Hands down, the best thing any player can do when they find a cheater is to report a cheater to support@(name of our company).com - that way, we can look at the logs, see their performance over the long term, and make the best judgment we can about what to do.

Thanks.
seppo

 

[helava]

I would not like this idea. Making words takes some time. Making that time shorter would not be beneficial to legit players.

We're doing the faster tables mostly because people have just asked for faster tables - for some players, they'll form a word very quickly, and not think about it while the timer's running down. For me, I use the whole timer to try to find the best word, and for new players, they need the time just to use an unfamiliar interface. Whether it cuts down on cheaters or not will be almost just an interesting side-effect of the process. It'll be up to you whether you want to play "speed word ace" or "normal word ace", and the game will still default to normal speed.

seppo

 

[mrkgoo]

Ahoy. So, I dunno whether wordacecheats is anyone here, but it's not in any way related to Self Aware Games or Word Ace. I've asked them to change their name, and they've already graciously changed their icon. While I'm really glad that players are passionate about the game and want to do what they can to stop cheaters, having stuff like this where people are publicly accosting players makes our job a LOT more difficult.

Whatever you want to do via a hashtag in twitter is one thing, but from a feed using a trademarked name (and image) leads to confusion, which causes us trouble. re: cheating, we're working on it. Hands down, the best thing any player can do when they find a cheater is to report a cheater to support@(name of our company).com - that way, we can look at the logs, see their performance over the long term, and make the best judgment we can about what to do.

Thanks.
seppo

Yah I agree, I don't see where such a twitter leads. I'm not going to follow it, and even if I did, I don't see how I could use the information.

I'm not even sure how reporting will be all that useful. It will be a lot of work for the team. For sure, cheating is sort of discouraging players form playing, which is bad, but what can you really do?

The most users can really do is to just not play them. Think about it, though - is it really the cheating that bothers? Or just the fact that you can't compete? Would you be ok with playing someone who were simply that good (and there must be people out there who are amazing Scrabble players, and thus good at WA)?

 

[mrkgoo]

We're doing the faster tables mostly because people have just asked for faster tables - for some players, they'll form a word very quickly, and not think about it while the timer's running down. For me, I use the whole timer to try to find the best word, and for new players, they need the time just to use an unfamiliar interface. Whether it cuts down on cheaters or not will be almost just an interesting side-effect of the process. It'll be up to you whether you want to play "speed word ace" or "normal word ace", and the game will still default to normal speed.

seppo

I like this idea (as a mix button spammer, I don't mind the extra time - I use it more often than not). What about extending this into areas where it is ok to use dictionaries/anagrammers? This would at least create a delineation between what is considered appropriate and actually say, "People who want to use aids should go in here". No, it won't stop people going into standard rooms, but atleast it becomes obvious what is cheating.

 

[jessecuster]

We're doing the faster tables mostly because people have just asked for faster tables - for some players, they'll form a word very quickly, and not think about it while the timer's running down. For me, I use the whole timer to try to find the best word, and for new players, they need the time just to use an unfamiliar interface. Whether it cuts down on cheaters or not will be almost just an interesting side-effect of the process. It'll be up to you whether you want to play "speed word ace" or "normal word ace", and the game will still default to normal speed.

seppo

Ohh that is awesome. I am already making words at the flop and turn, anyways.


I even make a word if I fold, just to see how I would have done.

 

[Flunkie]

We're doing the faster tables mostly because people have just asked for faster tables - for some players, they'll form a word very quickly, and not think about it while the timer's running down. For me, I use the whole timer to try to find the best word, and for new players, they need the time just to use an unfamiliar interface. Whether it cuts down on cheaters or not will be almost just an interesting side-effect of the process. It'll be up to you whether you want to play "speed word ace" or "normal word ace", and the game will still default to normal speed.

seppo

Oh I'm all for choice - the more choice given to the consumer the better - I'm just saying that I personally would not like to play Word Ace with an advanced timer.

Ahoy. So, I dunno whether wordacecheats is anyone here, but it's not in any way related to Self Aware Games or Word Ace. I've asked them to change their name, and they've already graciously changed their icon. While I'm really glad that players are passionate about the game and want to do what they can to stop cheaters, having stuff like this where people are publicly accosting players makes our job a LOT more difficult.

Whatever you want to do via a hashtag in twitter is one thing, but from a feed using a trademarked name (and image) leads to confusion, which causes us trouble. re: cheating, we're working on it. Hands down, the best thing any player can do when they find a cheater is to report a cheater to support@(name of our company).com - that way, we can look at the logs, see their performance over the long term, and make the best judgment we can about what to do.

Thanks.
seppo

I was just posting the link to make sure that you know about it. I'm in no way associated with the account and the only reason that I know of its existence is that they started following me. So don't think I'm doing anything to harm you!

 

[jessecuster]

http://twitter.com/wordacecheats

Just for the record, I am getting "page cannot be found". That was pretty quick.

 

[kaizoku]

I think we're getting too absorbed into the 'cheating' debate. I don't need the developers to try and punish people or alter the game to discourage cheating, and I most certainly am not interested in faster tables or segregating the gamerbase. I prefer to click play now and jump into a rather busy table. Splitting up the users into fast/slow, pro/noob, etc would detract from the game for me and if it starts getting harder to find busy tables at all times of day I'll probably stop playing regularly. If we can have big tables without a negative impact then sure. Besides, the bigger tables is where you will find all the cheaters who have loads of chips right, them being the richest and all.

I'm happy to let gamers regulate their own games, pick and choose who you play with for the most part, understand that when you play with strangers you might get 'cheaters'. But at the end of the day what you're actually losing to is the English language (and someone's superior cards).

 

[Undeux]

I suck at it, but I'm loving this game. Just bought the pro version.

My friend code's 75503.

 

[helava]

Yeah - had a good e-mail convo with the guy behind the feed. He was really responsive, and took it down. Nice guy. (edit: or girl!)

And no, I didn't make any assumptions that it was anyone here, but just in case it was, I wanted to let people know what was up.

Thanks for the heads up (I'd seen in this morning, but I still appreciate the notice).

seppo

 

[helava]

I think we're getting too absorbed into the 'cheating' debate. I don't need the developers to try and punish people or alter the game to discourage cheating, and I most certainly am not interested in faster tables or segregating the gamerbase. I prefer to click play now and jump into a rather busy table. Splitting up the users into fast/slow, pro/noob, etc would detract from the game for me and if it starts getting harder to find busy tables at all times of day I'll probably stop playing regularly. If we can have big tables without a negative impact then sure.

That's exactly why we've waited 'till now to actually open the options up. Right now, we're only opening up a $4K table (it'll be going live REALLY soon) - and as the userbase grows, and we have more people playing regularly, more options will become appropriate to open up.

Thanks!
seppo

 

[Costanza]

$4K table (it'll be going live REALLY soon)

tonight?

High stakes GAF game later, anyone?

 

[Flunkie]

Just for the record, I am getting "page cannot be found". That was pretty quick.

Awesome! :lol

 

[mrkgoo]

I think we're getting too absorbed into the 'cheating' debate. I don't need the developers to try and punish people or alter the game to discourage cheating, and I most certainly am not interested in faster tables or segregating the gamerbase. I prefer to click play now and jump into a rather busy table. Splitting up the users into fast/slow, pro/noob, etc would detract from the game for me and if it starts getting harder to find busy tables at all times of day I'll probably stop playing regularly. If we can have big tables without a negative impact then sure. Besides, the bigger tables is where you will find all the cheaters who have loads of chips right, them being the richest and all.

I'm happy to let gamers regulate their own games, pick and choose who you play with for the most part, understand that when you play with strangers you might get 'cheaters'. But at the end of the day what you're actually losing to is the English language (and someone's superior cards).

You can't presume someone who has a lot of chips is a cheater, or even good at the game, not when we can buy chips.

 

[Barrett2]

tonight?

High stakes GAF game later, anyone?

Im in!

To really enhance the experience I just need a green visor and bubblegum cigar to chomp on.

 

[helava]

$4K tables are live!

seppo

 

[Costanza]

$4K tables are live!

seppo

Sweet

Playing now.

 

[Costanza]

4k tables are so fun.

 

[N Coward Parody]

4k tables are so fun.

Agreed!

Quick question(s):

I'm really curious how this game fits in w/ online gambling laws. I mean, okay, I admit I don't know much (anything?) about this stuff, but it's illegal in the US right? To bet online with real money? Usually the site's gotta be run out of Cuba or something to get away with it?

So, how does Apple reconcile the customers of this game buying chips for money and gambling them away? Don't get me wrong -- I think it's a great game and I hope Self Aware makes bank off this wonderful idea -- just wondering how this fits in with the larger cosmology of online gambling. Someone please fill me in...

 

[mrkgoo]

Agreed!

Quick question(s):

I'm really curious how this game fits in w/ online gambling laws. I mean, okay, I admit I don't know much (anything?) about this stuff, but it's illegal in the US right? To bet online with real money? Usually the site's gotta be run out of Cuba or something to get away with it?

So, how does Apple reconcile the customers of this game buying chips for money and gambling them away? Don't get me wrong -- I think it's a great and I hope Self Aware makes bank off this wonderful idea -- just wondering how this fits in with the larger cosmology of online gambling. Someone please fill me in...

It's not real money?

 

[N Coward Parody]

It's not real money?

Okay, maybe it's that simple. But we have the option to purchase chips that stand in for real money which is basically how a casino works. Obviously it's not a 1:1 ratio like it is in a casino, but it's still a form of gambling, even if every dollar stands for a fraction of a fraction of a cent...

Am I off my rocker here? S'all good if I am...!

 

[mrkgoo]

Okay, maybe it's that simple. But we have the option to purchase chips that stand in for real money which is basically how a casino works. Obviously it's not a 1:1 ratio like it is in a casino, but it's still a form of gambling, even if every dollar stands for a fraction of a fraction of a cent...

Am I off my rocker here? S'all good if I am...!

Well to elaborate, Word Ace does not allow you to cash out - you don't actually stand a chance to win anything. You're not gambling, you're just paying to play.

 

[Costanza]

anybody want to play now?

 

[N Coward Parody]

Well to elaborate, Word Ace does not allow you to cash out - you don't actually stand a chance to win anything. You're not gambling, you're just paying to play.

Ah yes. This makes sense. DUH.

 

[Dacvak]

We have a $4000 GAF table going if anyone wants to join in.

 

[Dacvak]

KEX

FUCK YOU.

 

[helava]

FUCK YOU.

LOL! How much did THAT cost you?
seppo

 

[helava]

Agreed!

Quick question(s):

I'm really curious how this game fits in w/ online gambling laws. I mean, okay, I admit I don't know much (anything?) about this stuff, but it's illegal in the US right? To bet online with real money? Usually the site's gotta be run out of Cuba or something to get away with it?

So, how does Apple reconcile the customers of this game buying chips for money and gambling them away? Don't get me wrong -- I think it's a great game and I hope Self Aware makes bank off this wonderful idea -- just wondering how this fits in with the larger cosmology of online gambling. Someone please fill me in...

The main thing, as mrkgoo said, is that there's no way to cash out. You're buying chips that have no cash value. You'll be able to spend 'em in-game on virtual stuff, but it is, when you get down to it, a pay-for-play mechanic.

The second thing that makes it different than Poker, or other card games, is that they're considered games of "chance" and not games of "skill." With Word Ace, the formulation of the word clearly involves a certain degree of skill. So there's actually a legal distinction between the two that works in our favor. That said, with Card Ace in the works, it's really the first point that makes the difference.

Thanks!
seppo

 

[mrkgoo]

Damn. The genius from the team continues.

Playing on $4,000 has me a lot more conservative. It's mostly in the head though, sure, I have a 'smaller' stockpile now, but seeing the amounts has a psychological effect. I applaud you, Self Aware.

And I can see myself, provided I play properly, actually spending the occasional chip pack.


For 99c, you get to sit at two and a half tables, depending on your skill level.

 

[helava]

Well, only if you're REALLY unlucky (or bad) and you REALLY don't want to play at the lower stakes tables.

hahaha.

That said, all of our development was done at the 4K level, and so when we rolled it down to $400 for the release, we all suddenly felt like we were playing with chump change. It's completely psychological, but after a few games at $4,000, try the $40 tables. You'll be like, "ALL IN ALL THE TIME!" 'cause otherwise you don't feel like you're making any progress.



seppo

 

[mrkgoo]

Well battery's flat.


Occasionally, I will get a hang game, I guess as something over the network is waiting - but when I quit out, I notice the wifi is not connected, and I have to go back in and connect it.

Can an app cause this? Also, I'm not the only person to experience a freeze and having to quit out and back in again.

Damn, playing gaffers is so much fun.

 

[helava]

Well battery's flat.


Occasionally, I will get a hang game, I guess as something over the network is waiting - but when I quit out, I notice the wifi is not connected, and I have to go back in and connect it.

Can an app cause this? Also, I'm not the only person to experience a freeze and having to quit out and back in again.

Damn, playing gaffers is so much fun.

I don't believe there's any way that the app is causing that.

seppo

 

[dock]

I think a nice way to highlight cheaters (and reward legitimate players) would be to log the words they have won with recently, or perhaps a list of the person's top 10 high scoring words of all time!

It's somewhat impossible to combat entirely, but aggro things like the wordacecheats twitter certainly won't help you. I was rather put off Word Ace when I saw that twitter pop up, and I'm very relieved to see it isn't official.

 

[helava]

Hey, cool! Word Ace Pro's featured in the "Hot New Games" box under "Featured" in the App Store on the iDevice. Glad that there's some way to find the game, given that the desktop iTunes is completely hosed right now (no categories - the only way to browse is to browse the main page, or the top 100 lists on the Games heading, or scour the release date listing - it's a mess).

Woo!
seppo

 

[Foob]

holy fuuuuuuck

I'm sure someone here has had a similar experience, but I just won a 11k pot goddamn

i had besides

 

[helava]

Also just want to let you all know that the Facebook version of Word Ace is really getting close to being done. Spent a while playing that today, and the gameplay's almost complete. Just a little bit of menu stuff to finish up, and we'll be good to go!

seppo

 

[Costanza]

playing now. who's up for a few hands?

 

[mrkgoo]

I lost $8,000 last night. :/



I have got a couple friends from nz into it, but one is losing enthusiasm due to 'cheaters'.

 

[helava]

I lost $8,000 last night. :/



I have got a couple friends from nz into it, but one is losing enthusiasm due to 'cheaters'.

It's funny how "streaky" the game can get sometimes. I lost something like $20K the other night - no hands went my way, and the best word I was able to find had like, 8pts. It was pathetic.

We're still working on a solution to keep the game fair for everyone. No ETA at this point on the first update, as we're swamped with the launch, but it's progressing.

seppo