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[Randy Lanzarote]

Still, MS deserves it for their utterly moronic decision to omit a hard drive from their system.

I think that is a bit harsh, I've no doubt that not having to put a HDD in every SKU has helped MS, now more than ever perhaps. I think the most moronic thing they have done is been such a bunch of tight fisted wankers over the initial 64mb memory unit. It was a pathetic amount of space to offer then, and now its come back to bite them in the ass. They should have been less concerned with penny-pinching during those first two years, and been more considerate towards the storage requirements they might have had to impose. 256mb memory should have been standard from the beginning imo.... but there we go.

 

[Princess Skittles]

PS3 fanboys = democrats

360 fanboys = republicans

:lol

Democrats = Douchebags.

Republicans = Assholes.

It matches. How creepy.

 

[clashfan]

..umm no but you know, this xbox 360 vs ps3 fanboy war is no different the politics and the presidential race going on...

PS3 fanboys = democrats

360 fanboys = republicans

:lol

Actually the Obama gamerpic seems to be more popular then the McCain...

 

[Chemo]

I think that is a bit harsh, I've no doubt that not having to put a HDD in every SKU has helped MS, now more than ever perhaps.

Who the fuck cares about what helps Microsoft? :lol People should be more concerned with themselves.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Arcade owners got what they paid for.

Arcade + 60 gig pack gives you more value than the Pro. You'd be a doofus to buy a pro versus Arcade + 60 gig pack.

 

[morningbus]

Democrats = Douchebags.

Republicans = Assholes.

It matches. How creepy.

Independents = Home enema kits

 

[gregor7777]

Just gotta keep that fridge clean!

Well, yeah, I think that goes without saying. I mean, it's a 256MB/512MB card. Just saves and you're cool, but that isn't much at all for an arcade game or two.

 

[Raistlin]

No worse then if you had a PS2 memory card that was full and got the Network Adapter and couldn't go online unless you deleted game files. If you are the kind of person that is filling up your memory cards then you are the kind of person that would opt for a bigger memory card i.e. the harddrive.

So, with regards to our previous discussion ... I would say it is now even less likely for people to get a 360 sans HDD

 

[Ventrue]

..umm no but you know, this xbox 360 vs ps3 fanboy war is no different the politics and the presidential race going on...

PS3 fanboys = democrats

360 fanboys = republicans

:lol

EDIT..i had to edit ..i mean..the update is suppose to target those with a hdd..

Great, now we can have stupid analogies about the consoles without even having ANY stupid justification.

You know, the console wars are a lot like a box of chocolate.

360 Fanboys = Hitler
PS3 Fanboys = Satan

 

[fossen]

Offering free memory cards is probably where they will go. But they need to screw it up less than they did on the HDD Transfer Kit.

Whether or it it directly affects GAF, the idea that Arcade + 64 MC Card people can play UNO online on November 18 then will not be able to do so on the 19th is probably not the press Microsoft wants a week before Black Friday.

Heck, even all the people with the 256 card who suddenly need to clear half of it off! They stupidly thought Microsoft included a 256 MB card in the pack, but now MS needs half if it back.

 

[soco]

Offering free memory cards is probably where they will go. But they need to screw it up less than they did on the HDD Transfer Kit.

how exactly did they screw up the transfer kit? it comes with every 120gig drive, and if you buy a system with a bigger drive to upgrade you get a free one?

 

[-PXG-]

Great, now we can have stupid analogies about the consoles without even having ANY stupid justification.

You know, the console wars are a lot like a box of chocolate.

360 Fanboys = Hitler
PS3 Fanboys = Satan

360 Fanboys = Waffles
PS3 Fanboys= Pancakes

Waffles are better, end of discussion!

/thread

 

[Teknoman]

I want a cheap 120GB hard drive.

 

[GhaleonEB]

128 megs? The current current Dashboard is contained in what, 14 megs of system memory? How much of that space is for Avatars?

 

[fossen]

how exactly did they screw up the transfer kit? it comes with every 120gig drive, and if you buy a system with a bigger drive to upgrade you get a free one?

Yes. You get a free one if you track down the PDF in Xbox.com, mail it in, and wait six weeks.

It's such an efficient system that GAF does an end-run around it.

I don't think that kind of program will pass muster for Joe Arcade Unit. "Sorry, we changed our mind about how this hardware should work. Just fill out a form and stay offline for six weeks, and you'll be good."

 

[DMeisterJ]

Well, some Core owners are going to be really sad, but if you only have an arcade, and 256mb of memory, wouldn't you think that they wouldn't have as many game saves and video games, since they bought the hard-drive less system?

Oh well, MS should have really included a hard-drive with each system.

 

[Princess Skittles]

Yes. You get a free one if you track down the PDF in Xbox.com, mail it in, and wait six weeks.

I just upgraded to an Elite, I called 1.800.4MY.XBOX, no PDF, and had the kit in three business days.

 

[dejay]

I got a new arcade to replace my launch pro. Here's hoping I can snag a free card for it.

 

[soco]

Yes. You get a free one if you track down the PDF in Xbox.com, mail it in, and wait six weeks.

as pointed out you could get them far easier and faster than that just by calling. that's hardly screwing that up as it's such a tiny minority who would need them.

MS is pretty much mandating that everyone gets this update ASAP -- so much so that they're including it on game discs, so chances are they wouldn't do any UPC code kind of program.

 

[gregor7777]

Yes. You get a free one if you track down the PDF in Xbox.com, mail it in, and wait six weeks.

It's such an efficient system that GAF does an end-run around it.

I don't think that kind of program will pass muster for Joe Arcade Unit. "Sorry, we changed our mind about how this hardware should work. Just fill out a form and stay offline for six weeks, and you'll be good."

Or, just delete an arcade game. Yeah, it's not ideal, but it's not like someone with a memory card will be without a dashboard.

 

[Blackface]

I just got a 20gb "Falcon" 360 pro for $150 at BB, since they are clearing them out for the 60gigs.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

This is a non-story. You need a memory card to create a Live Gold or Silver account, anyway.

Welcome to 2005

 

[fossen]

Or, just delete an arcade game. Yeah, it's not ideal, but it's not like someone with a memory card will be without a dashboard.

Well, unless you got a 64MB.

I guess I'm imagining John Davidson on the Today show on Black Friday doing the console roundup explaining this to the very people MS is trying to capture with the $199 Arcade Pack. Explaining about how they'll get a memory card, but half of it's going to disappear the second they connect online and get the update.

It's obviously not a problem for the hardcore, but I think it's another case where Microsoft didn't think through the hardware well enough this gen, and is going to have another run of bad/confusing press because of it.

 

[knitoe]

I just got a 20gb "Falcon" 360 pro for $150 at BB, since they are clearing them out for the 60gigs.

Where's this? For that price, get HDMI X360 to replace my old one.

 

[fossen]

This is a non-story. You need a memory card to create a Live Gold or Silver account, anyway.

Welcome to 2005

How big does that memory card need to be?

Again .... there is a percentage of users that bought what Microsoft said to and will happily be online on the 18th, only to find they need to go to Best Buy and purchase more hardware if they want that same experience 24 hours later. Or they need to call 1-800-4-MY-XBOX if there's some replacement program.

 

[poppabk]

This is a non-story. You need a memory card to create a Live Gold or Silver account, anyway.

Welcome to 2005

I think the story is that MS are potentially halving the available memory on the arcade pack, which just recently hit the magic $200 price point.

 

[AndresON777]

Actually the Obama gamerpic seems to be more popular then the McCain...

Seriously, what a stupid analogy.

I have a ps3 too but I mainly play my 360.

 

[a Master Ninja]

You probably won't hear many complaints when this is first rolled out as almost nobody is connected to live with just a 64MB memory card. The moment a high profile game rolls out with the update on the disc, though, 1-800-4MY-XBOX is going to get a lot of calls.

 

[intheinbetween]

uhm, i don't see the problem unless NXE couldn't be used in an arcade 360 system using a memcard.. i mean, hard drive required

Wii has its 512MB internal memory for savegames, miis, VC games, etc...
PS3 has a built-in hard drive
360 has no storage device built-in, so it's obvious you can't store any savegame or content without a memcard or a hard-drive..

so, where's the surprise?

 

[RavenFox]

No worse then if you had a PS2 memory card that was full and got the Network Adapter and couldn't go online unless you deleted game files. If you are the kind of person that is filling up your memory cards then you are the kind of person that would opt for a bigger memory card i.e. the harddrive.

what?

 

[Randy Lanzarote]

128 megs? The current current Dashboard is contained in what, 14 megs of system memory? How much of that space is for Avatars?

I think some of that space will be set aside for caching and storing data from Live. One of the reasons why the NXE looks so much faster in operation than the current dashboard, no sitting around waiting for that annoying little egg timer to do its little dance.

I'd imagine the avatar texturing takes up a bit too, but I can't see that breaking the MB bank.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

So what happens if you download the update, and then later on take off your HDD or MU and turn on your 360? I highly doubt that it will just revert to the old dashboard.

 

[yoursisterspretty]

Arcade + 60 gig pack gives you more value than the Pro. You'd be a doofus to buy a pro versus Arcade + 60 gig pack.

...if Microsoft would release that pack. (I'm waiting)...

 

[HUELEN10]

So what happens if you download the update, and then later on take off your HDD or MU and turn on your 360? I highly doubt that it will just revert to the old dashboard.

Simple. From now on, it will not boot without the storage connected to it.


Right?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

what?

The PS2 network adapter required that you had a memory card attached in order to save the network settings. If your Memory card was full, then you couldn't save the network settings preventing you from going online at all.

So, with regards to our previous discussion ... I would say it is now even less likely for people to get a 360 sans HDD

My point was that if you are the type of gamer that is playing so many games that they are running out of space on their memory card then you are the type of gamer that needs more memory and would have bought an HDD as a bigger memory card. If you are not the kind of user that plays so many games that it doesn't fill up your memory card then you are not the type of person who needs the extra space of the HDD... and hence, this problem (topic of the thread) will not affect you.

We'll see with the coming up NPD data if the percentage of non-HDD users remain the same as they were previously or if the price cut dramatically changes just how many of non-HDD users they are out there. I feel you are only looking at past data of users without HDD's before the price cut and I'm looking at all the influx of new users that will be without HDD's. Different views.

 

[jdub03]

im curious to find out how many people reading this thread have an arcade machine?

 

[fossen]

im curious to find out how many people reading this thread have an arcade machine?

I don't.

Point?

Is your point that if it doesn't affect me personally, I shouldn't think about it?

Or is your point that GAF represents some sort of proportional slice of the gaming public?

 

[AndyD]

uhm, i don't see the problem unless NXE couldn't be used in an arcade 360 system using a memcard.. i mean, hard drive required

Wii has its 512MB internal memory for savegames, miis, VC games, etc...
PS3 has a built-in hard drive
360 has no storage device built-in, so it's obvious you can't store any savegame or content without a memcard or a hard-drive..

so, where's the surprise?

Pre-arcade core system +
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360memoryunit64mb/

Surprise!! You cant just look at current systems being sold.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Pre-arcade core system +
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360memoryunit64mb/

Surprise!! You cant just look at current systems being sold.

NXE will be a problem for a very small number of people: Core owners who only have a 64 meg memory card. Those people are unlikely to be playing online in the first place. Some will be impacted by this, but not very many. And Microsoft still hasn't said what their solution is for them.

I wonder how MS will handle NXE (what a stupid name) going forward. Will it be loaded on the memory card in the Arcade packs? Can it be deleted? What happens if someone deletes it? Will they make the capacity larger since they're going to fill up half the current space?

And really - shouldn't people be happy that Microsoft is making a major update that might screw over Core/Arcade owners? Hasn't the attitude on GAF all along been "fuck those guys, they should think of all the owners with the HDD instead?" Didn't Microsoft basically just do that here?

 

[HUELEN10]

im curious to find out how many people reading this thread have an arcade machine?

I do.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Noooooo....wait *looks at 360 version*... ah well, poor Core gamers. I pity the fools.

And really - shouldn't people be happy that Microsoft is making a major update that might screw over Core/Arcade owners? Hasn't the attitude on GAF all along been "fuck those guys, they should think of all the owners with the HDD instead?" Didn't Microsoft basically just do that here?

GAF adapts...really fast.

 

[Zzoram]

I'm wondering why the Arcade doesn't come with a 512mb memory card, considering that those were actually being sold for a time, and can't be much more expensive.

 

[Woffls]

umm, couldn't 'offer storage solutions' be offering online server-side storage?

 

[disappeared]

For some weird reason I was expecting NXE to take up a lot more space, like maybe a gig or something.

 

[mrklaw]

Arcade owners got what they paid for.

its unfair to blame arcade owners for being cheap. Blame MS for shipping a fucked up sku. What are normal people supposed to do when they go into a store and see the arcade? buy it because its cheap. thats why its there. Yet it isn't enough of a machine to handle things properly, so MS shouldn't have released it.

As for the 256MB memory card - is that thing safe to read significant amounts off every time you boot up - using it as scratch memory effectively? Flash memory isn't an SSD.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

What happens when someone with a memory card updates to a HD? Can the stuff on the card be transferred or do you need to keep the memory card around?

Also... when is the arcade coming in black

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Ballparking based on shipments as of October 2007 and knowing that the Core was substantially less popular than the Premium unit, this should impact fewer than 2-2.5 million consumers. Subtract from that number the number of people who have since bought 256MB memory cards, any kind of hard drive, or who have bought new 360s after their previous ones died.

I would say the number of impacted systems in the end is <1 million

Yes, but how MS can know that the user that has bought a Core pack already has a memory card? If they need to offer free memory units, they will have to offer them to all Core users, no matter if they have or not a store solution by their own (me? no no I do have a memory card, MS, please send me a new one). Tied to the Core pack serial number for sure. Arcade owners may be excluded because they have a pack-in memory card.

And since the upgrade is mandatory (and even if the user is never online he will probably get the update together within a game that requires it) they must provide a solution that solve the Core problem.

The Core was a dumb move from the start....

 

[pancakesandsex]

360 Fanboys = Waffles
PS3 Fanboys= Pancakes

Waffles are better, end of discussion!

/thread

:-(

 

[AndresON777]

nm

 

[fossen]

umm, couldn't 'offer storage solutions' be offering online server-side storage?

It's possible, but that'd be confusing.

"The New Xbox Experience will require 128MB of free space" sure seems to indicate that you need 128MB of free space. If they could put it on the server, I expect they would.