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[Rncewind]

the reason is in mgs4 and its dumb

 

[Plasma]

This nonsense is retconned in MGS4.

Fixed.

 

[Sub_Level]

I think it actually was Liquid's arm, not some random arm, and it was to fool the Patriots. Ocelot is so boss that his own manchurian candidate techniques can fool advanced AI.

Right, it was his arm in 2. But in 4 he grafts some weird metallic arm onto himself instead.

Unless he coated with metal spray texture, its not Liquid's arm in 4.

 

[Ōkami]

It was actually all black carrot, it just took 20 years to kick in.

 

[Kyzer]

From the perspective of MGS2 and it being canon the answer is basically ghosts are real and Liquid was making those decisions while possessing Ocelot. Whats the issue

 

[Gator86]

Wait, are things supposed to make sense? I was just under the impression that trying to make sense of certain aspects of MGS was the wrong way to do it. I thought you just had to roll with it.

Basically the latter. Kojima was just making shit up on the fly and people super into the series have tried to construct it into something coherent and act like it was a master plan all along.

 

[BadWolf]

I'm pretty sure in MGS database it was made clear the reason Ocelot gets the robot arm is to get rid of Liquid. Why else would he replace the hand?

Didn't need it anymore? It made sense to start the ruse with it by giving it a physical element (instead of getting 'possessed' randomly) but beyond that he didn't need it. His 'transformation' is basically complete in MGS4.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Spoiler

Ocelot hypnotized himself.

That's all there's to it, he just made himself believe that he was liquid because of the arm, the arm itself doesn't do anything, it may not even be Liquid's.

Spoiler

It was actually possessing him in MGS2. This caused him to cut it off by the time of 4, but it gave him an idea on how to bypass the Patriots' system, as they saw the possession happen firsthand.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Right, it was his arm in 2. But in 4 he grafts some weird metallic arm onto himself instead.

Unless he coated with metal spray texture, its not Liquid's arm in 4.

Liquid's arm probably died, or Ocelot's immune system rejected it, so he must have needed a cooler, Octo-arm instead of a gang green Franken-arm.

Gonna need another head transplant doctor theory. Venom Arm.

 

[///PATRIOT]

Op, it really makes sense when you don't think about it.

 

[MegaSackman]

Explained in MGS V that Ocelot hipnotizes himself at convenience (convenience for the plot).

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Some of the explanations in here are wrong.

The MGS2 digital comic and the MGS Encyclopedia included in 4 confirmed that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid's spirit via the arm in 2, he just... swapped it out for a mechanical one in 4 and hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid, because acting exactly like you're possessed by a ghost but on your own terms is I guess technically better than being possessed by a ghost. Also he kept up the ghost act because... like, the Patriot AIs were so stupid that upon seeing a guy acting like Liquid, they would immediately call in a geriatric Solid Snake to defeat him again, because despite running the world their pattern recognition is that childishly simple?

So yeah, Ocelot's plan was to trick a computer into believing in ghosts when ghosts are already real in that world, and also Liquid was finally defeated once and for all by a surgeon off screen between games.

*Laughs forever*

 

[Sub_Level]

From the perspective of MGS2 and it being canon the answer is basically ghosts are real and Liquid was making those decisions while possessing Ocelot. Whats the issue

This.

 

[Liquidsnakeiv]

That is the awesome thing about MGS2, who knows WTH is happening, but damn I enjoyed it.

 

[Sectorseven]

Thinking more practically, maybe off screen in MGS1, after Ocelot's arm got sliced off, Liquid offered up his arm in the event something happened to him.

I mean, it's less ridiculous than ghosts n shit.

 

[FinalAres]

Some of the explanations in here are wrong.

The MGS2 digital comic and the MGS Encyclopedia included in 4 confirmed that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid's spirit via the arm in 2, he just... swapped it out for a mechanical one in 4 and hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid, because acting exactly like you're possessed by a ghost but on your own terms is I guess technically better than being possessed by a ghost. Also he kept up the ghost act because... like, the Patriot AIs were so stupid that upon seeing a guy acting like Liquid, they would immediately call in a geriatric Solid Snake to defeat him again, because despite running the world their pattern recognition is that childishly simple?

So yeah, Ocelot's plan was to trick a computer into believing in ghosts when ghosts are already real in that world, and also Liquid was finally defeated once and for all by a surgeon off screen between games.

This actually makes me so happy. That explanation makes total sense (relatively) and allows the sorrow explanation to be true. It also means the end of MGS2 isnt totally ignored. Man I need to replay the series again.

 

[zma1013]

The hand thing will always be one of the dumbest things. They took an interesting character like Ocelot and overwrote him with boring Liquid? Ocelot deserves better than that.

Plus in a world with cybernetics ninjas, why would someone not want a cool cyborg ninja hand instead? It just makes no sense.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

This nonsense is addressed in MGS4.

I think all of us should prefer to ponder the MGS2 story without getting into how MGS4 completely destroyed everything good about it.

Spoiler

Like The Patriots. Yeah they're just every character left alive at the end of MGS3. Right. OK. Yeah, fuck that.

 

[MegaSackman]

I think all of us should prefer to ponder the MGS2 story without getting into how MGS4 completely destroyed everything good about it.

Spoiler

Like The Patriots. Yeah they're just every character left alive at the end of MGS3. Right. OK. Yeah, fuck that.

I blame MGS 2 for the Patriots, I was already pissed at the end of that game, 3 and 4 just had to deal with that crazyness. At least 3 is a super cool game tho.

 

[packy34]

Spoiler

I always remember it as Ocelot just pretended to be possessed by liquid... I don't remember WHY but there was a good (and by good I mean metal gear kinda good) explanation for why

To trick the Patriots.

 

[Redd]

Because why not. Kojima was obviously making it up as he went along. Trying to explain things in the most anime way instead of leaving it to supernatural powers.

In short Nanomachines.

 

[Fisty]

This actually makes me so happy. That explanation makes total sense (relatively) and allows the sorrow explanation to be true. It also means the end of MGS2 isnt totally ignored. Man I need to replay the series again.

But... I don't think it's correct. I'll have to go through the MGS4 database again, but I don't remember anything after MGS4 saying that he was actually possessed, and the only explanation given was by Big Boss in the epilogue, saying it was self-hypnosis to trick the Patriots

Which, of you think about it, would totally work on the Patriots. They would have extensive data on the Sorrow, and know Ocelots parentage, so they would have thought the same thing we did... we thought he was channeling Liquid and we let our guard down. The fact Ocelot was tricking the audience and the Patriots is pretty clever.

 

[BadWolf]

But... I don't think it's correct. I'll have to go through the MGS4 database again, but I don't remember anything after MGS4 saying that he was actually possessed, and the only explanation given was by Big Boss in the epilogue, saying it was self-hypnosis to trick the Patriots

Tbh I've never bothered with the database after hearing that it has numerous inaccuracies in general, so I just go by what is in the actual games.

The Big Boss explanation is the one to look to imo.

 

[InsaneTiger]

The hand never took over Ocelot, Ocelot took drugs and hypnotherapy. It was all some play to takedown the Patriots. MGS4 resolves it all, if you could call it a resolution.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I blame MGS 2 for the Patriots, I was already pissed at the end of that game, 3 and 4 just had to deal with that crazyness. At least 3 is a super cool game tho.

MGS2 was never supposed to have a sequel, the questions about the Patriots being real and metaphorical were never supposed to answered.

 

[Itchy//Tasty]

The only reason I can think of to answer OP's question is that Liquid's spirit somehow suggested that Ocelot get the arm graft in the first place, to the point of almost posessing him to do it. I mean it always sat strangely with me that Ocelot would get Liquid's nasty-ass dead arm grafted when his real allegiance was to Big Boss all along.

 

[CorwinB]

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/11/30/metal-gear-stupid

 

[Aesnath]

MGS2 was never supposed to have a sequel, the questions about the Patriots being real and metaphorical were never supposed to answered.

Yeah, the plot was just nonsense that sort of made fun of you for being invested in it. It is either A: a completely ridiculous plot from a creator that just didn't care or B: an incredibly clever (but often misunderstood) send up of sequels that also happens to explore the problems with truth in a digital world.

Either way, I was pretty disappointed at the time.

Now that I think about it, MGS2 has some things in common with Gremlins 2.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Wasn't it said in mgs4 that ocelot put himself under hypnosis so that he thought liquids psyche was taking him over?

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Ocelot is just playing the games like you are. He's already a demon.

That's why he's smarter than the patriot AI. Just like you, the player, is smarter than the AI routines of enemy soldiers. They're limited by their simple programming, but you're the ghost in the machine, and you have the edge that makes you capable of attaining the rank of Big Boss.

Ocelot is a fictional character who uses transubstantiation to transcend Kojima's organic brain and enter into video games in order to serve his own will. The Patriots are just an avatar for the chipsets inside most consoles, subsequently limited by the constructs of the fiction they inhabit, and are easily outwitted by the likes of Ocelot... a being bound by neither technology or narrative.

 

[Timeaisis]

Ocelot

Spoiler

got the hand from Liquid in order to make it look like he was controlled Liquid Snake during the events of MGS2. Presumably to throw off the Patriots to his real mission of destroying the Patriots, instead of following their orders.

 

[Crayon]

Liquid keeps his pimp hand strong.

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

All the MGS4 explanations in this thread don't mean shit in reference to that line in the isolated context of MGS2.

What I read years ago is that the line was sort of a translation goof, i.e. it's supposed to be something like "With Ocelot as my host I happened to be in the perfect position to do this." but it's not like I can confirm this.

Somene with japanese language abilities might check if that's true:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_-Nf67rexY&list=PLCYN1i_HHisgIjRpd2N1RP4tzaFb8PTQx&index=21

 

[MegaSackman]

MGS2 was never supposed to have a sequel, the questions about the Patriots being real and metaphorical were never supposed to answered.

I understand but the whole concept was ridiculous at the time to me even without answers, I mean I played the games on release date, it's obvious my problem with the story in MGS 2 was MGS 2 fault and not the prequels/sequel.
I never replayed 2 tho, I didn't like it that much so maybe I remember some things wrongly.

 

[John Kowalski]

There is no such thing as magic or the supernatural, only cutting edge technology.

 

[pillowtalk]

Hypnosis. Also was in MGSV.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I love MGS2, but this was the most shitty thing about it. MGS4 made it even shittier but hey, shit happens.

The best thing that this stupid twist spawned was

"Get out of my mind, Liquid"

Zimmerman killed it anyway. But even he was bad in 4.

 

[Unknown One]

There is no such thing as magic or the supernatural, only cutting edge technology.

Yet look at all the supernaturals in MGS3. That game that far more supernaturals than MGS1 and 2.

 

[Weltall Zero]

and also Liquid was finally defeated once and for all by a surgeon off screen between games.

I laughed at this far more than I should, especially considering it's simultaneously sad and true.

MGS2 was never supposed to have a sequel, the questions about the Patriots being real and metaphorical were never supposed to answered.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume MGS1's stinger was likewise and there was never supposed to be an explanation as to why there's a third clone that's also fucking president of the US. By MGS3 I guess Kojima wised up and stopped drawing himself into corners with those stingers, no matter how little he wanted to work on a new MGS, but it's kind of funny the series didn't get any less crazy because of that.

 

[BstnRich]

If I recall correctly - it was a mixture of therapy and nanomachines?

Basically, Ocelot adapted Liquid's speech and mannerisms with the help of therapy, but acting eventually led to him believing it to a degree. Wear the mask to long and become the mask, type thing.

I could be wrong. Tweet Kojima.

 

[Falchion]

Is it bad that I've played and loved all of these games but couldn't answer this major question without reading some of the responses and going, 'oh yeah!'?

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Is it bad that I've played and loved all of these games but couldn't answer this major question without reading some of the responses and going, 'oh yeah!'?

It's been a long time since I've played them, but when I had them in their respective eras, I replayed them way too many times. So I forget a lot.

It's why I need to get a PS3 again.

 

[Jason Frost]

Some of the explanations in here are wrong.

The MGS2 digital comic and the MGS Encyclopedia included in 4 confirmed that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid's spirit via the arm in 2, he just... swapped it out for a mechanical one in 4 and hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid, because acting exactly like you're possessed by a ghost but on your own terms is I guess technically better than being possessed by a ghost. Also he kept up the ghost act because... like, the Patriot AIs were so stupid that upon seeing a guy acting like Liquid, they would immediately call in a geriatric Solid Snake to defeat him again, because despite running the world their pattern recognition is that childishly simple?

So yeah, Ocelot's plan was to trick a computer into believing in ghosts when ghosts are already real in that world, and also Liquid was finally defeated once and for all by a surgeon off screen between games.

This is what I always thought too.

 

[Boke1879]

Some of the explanations in here are wrong.

The MGS2 digital comic and the MGS Encyclopedia included in 4 confirmed that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid's spirit via the arm in 2, he just... swapped it out for a mechanical one in 4 and hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid, because acting exactly like you're possessed by a ghost but on your own terms is I guess technically better than being possessed by a ghost. Also he kept up the ghost act because... like, the Patriot AIs were so stupid that upon seeing a guy acting like Liquid, they would immediately call in a geriatric Solid Snake to defeat him again, because despite running the world their pattern recognition is that childishly simple?

So yeah, Ocelot's plan was to trick a computer into believing in ghosts when ghosts are already real in that world, and also Liquid was finally defeated once and for all by a surgeon off screen between games.

Yup. This is right.

 

[Killing_Joke]

Big spoilers ahead. Whoever doesn't agree with them can ram it up their arse.

Spoiler

Ocelot is the son of the Sorrow, the spooky ghost motherfucker in MGS3. When he attached Liquid's arm (due to his absolute boner over their bloodline), he ended up channeling the spirit of Liquid due to his inherited abilities from his father.

He got rid of the arm in 4 because it started becoming a large detriment to his plans, instead attaching a mechanical one and undergoing hypnosis to incorporate Liquid's personality into his, to keep the ruse going.

This is correct. Even though they never flat out say he inherited the abilities. It was heavily implied.

Now WHY he did the arm thing from the start never made sense to me. You can tell it was pissing him off throughout MGS but what was the intention? He was already in a plan to destroy the Patriots and had Solidus in his back pocket.

 

[The Silver]

Yeah he really was possessed​ in MGS2 but Ocelot felt that was 2spoopy so he cut it off and went the tried and true method of nanomachines son.

 

[Capitan]

This is the only thing you don't get about MGS2?

this is what I was going to say.
god, i should replay this. I still don't really remember all the shit that happened at the end.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Big spoilers ahead. Whoever doesn't agree with them can ram it up their arse.

Spoiler

Ocelot is the son of the Sorrow, the spooky ghost motherfucker in MGS3. When he attached Liquid's arm (due to his absolute boner over their bloodline), he ended up channeling the spirit of Liquid due to his inherited abilities from his father.

He got rid of the arm in 4 because it started becoming a large detriment to his plans, instead attaching a mechanical one and undergoing hypnosis to incorporate Liquid's personality into his, to keep the ruse going.

Yes this is how I see it too

 

[TheBowen]

MGS4 spoilers

T

Spoiler

he hand( in mgs 4) didn't actually have liquid in it. Ocelot just tortured/tricked himself to believe the hand was liquid trying to control him, so he could fully persuade himself that he was liquid, thus tricking the patriots ai to believe it was liquid

.

In other words, it's still stupid. Just slightly less

 

[The Boat]

Some of the explanations in here are wrong.

The MGS2 digital comic and the MGS Encyclopedia included in 4 confirmed that Ocelot was possessed by Liquid's spirit via the arm in 2, he just... swapped it out for a mechanical one in 4 and hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid, because acting exactly like you're possessed by a ghost but on your own terms is I guess technically better than being possessed by a ghost. Also he kept up the ghost act because... like, the Patriot AIs were so stupid that upon seeing a guy acting like Liquid, they would immediately call in a geriatric Solid Snake to defeat him again, because despite running the world their pattern recognition is that childishly simple?

So yeah, Ocelot's plan was to trick a computer into believing in ghosts when ghosts are already real in that world, and also Liquid was finally defeated once and for all by a surgeon off screen between games.

Everything about this is beyond stupid.