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The Order 1886 will run at 30fps

I wonder if we'll get co-op multiplayer as DLC? I understand how you can't always just stick two players in a single player level if it is designed and scripted around one player. But the world does look like it'd work well with coop so maybe they'll add it later.

Having said that, I'm more than happy for a not always-online, single player focused game. There are tons of multiplayer games out there for people to enjoy, I happen to like single player ones.
 
HTupolev said:
No, unless the devs think that scaling artifacts and 16:9 is a superior compromise to 1920x800 native (which they admittedly usually do).

1:1 pixel mapping at 1920x800 means you're only pushing ~74% as many pixels as "full" 1080p.

This approach actually saves almost as much per-pixel cost as dropping to 900p (900p is ~69% the pixels of 1080p).

Regardless of what random people want to peg as "THE REASON" the devs went with 1920x800, it's saving them a ton of GPU power.
Click to expand...

Nobody is arguing that only rendering 1920x800 is saving them a ton of power to use for the rest of the game, that is obvious.

The argument is whether they went 1920x800 to save on power, or if they wanted to go 1920x800 regardless and that having extra power was a bonus of a design choice rather than the reason FOR the design choice.
 
Alright, I'm going to go budge my goalposts.
DBT85 said:
Nobody is arguing that only rendering 1920x800 is saving them a ton of power to use for the rest of the game, that is obvious.

The argument is whether they went 1920x800 to save on power, or if they wanted to go 1920x800 regardless and that having extra power was a bonus of a design choice rather than the reason FOR the design choice.
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jaosobno said:
It's clearly an artistic choice.
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It's clearly a decision that was made by a bunch of people sitting around a table weighing a bunch of different considerations.

It's a difficult issue to discuss, because if the console had more power, it's possible that they'd use it to crank up the graphics rather than hit 1920x1080. On the other hand, if when the game went gold, they were magically given the choice to make it full 1920x1080 with no other compromise, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they would take it.
 
maybe they should never have called it 1080p. 4k is using the horizontal resolution for some reason (probably because it is a bigger number)

So The Order is rendering at 2k resolution. Better?
 
mrklaw said:
maybe they should never have called it 1080p. 4k is using the horizontal resolution for some reason (probably because it is a bigger number)

So The Order is rendering at 2k resolution. Better?
Click to expand...
Or just stop using 1-dimensional figures to describe 2-dimensional phenomena, and call it 1920x800.
 
not every game needs to run at 60fps, i actually agree with some of the examples given regarding genres that play better at 60fps.

also, i wonder if sony will turn this into a movie in 5 yrs.

:P
 
HTupolev said:
Alright, I'm going to go budge my goalposts.


It's clearly a decision that was made by a bunch of people sitting around a table weighing a bunch of different considerations.

It's a difficult issue to discuss, because if the console had more power, it's possible that they'd use it to crank up the graphics rather than hit 1920x1080. On the other hand, if when the game went gold, they were magically given the choice to make it full 1920x1080 with no other compromise, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they would take it.
Click to expand...

If the game was designed around 1920x800, going to 1920x1080 would mess up their game design.
 
I'm fine with 30fps if it's constant. I'll have to play it to really complain. When I was younger, I played Dungeon Siege uno at a grand total of 13-25 fps. Now that sucks. 30fps is good enough.

I saw a post earlier about Tomb Raider getting hammered on the Xbone for only having 30fps and people getting less upset about this game. I think it's more of the power of the Xbone than the game. If 1886 was coming out on both and one system produced 60 fps and the other is 30 fps, more people would be upset at the system only producing 60 fps. Plus, Tomb Raider is still a last gen game with some more make up.
 
LiK said:
This isn't a movie.
Click to expand...

But it is being made with the intention of looking like one and so you would think RAD will make it play well.

If the game sucks and bombs, nobody is going to point toward it having bars as the reason.

I just want RAD to make the game, to their own design.
 
Aw shit, shooters really benefit from 60fps... hope it's not too frantic so the 30fps doesn't get dipped if it isn't locked.
 
Infinite Ammo said:
Aw shit, shooters really benefit from 60fps... hope it's not too frantic so the 30fps doesn't get dipped if it isn't locked.
Click to expand...

The positive way of looking at it is that it may not be a shooter as such. I never felt that a higher framerate was missing from, say, Uncharted. Racing games and fast paced shooters, on the other hand...
 
If its locked I'm fine with it, but on the other side, this has to deliver graphically now. I expect nothing more than a substantual leap to last gen.
 
As long as 30 FPS is rock solid, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have game with constant framerate and frame latency than, for example, KZ:SF multiplayer where framerate is all over the place (30 to 60 FPS).
 
25 pages for something we pretty much knew already. Good job fellow gaffers. :/

As long as it's a locked 30 fps I don't really care. In fact for a game like this I would rather be wowed with technology than have something that marginally improves the look and feel of the game. This just isn't a genre that greatly benefits from 60 fps.

amstradcpc said:
I would be ok if they chose 720p30fps to get Samaritan level graphics.
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Ugh no. It's 2014. 720p is shit-tastic by today's standards and as a PC/PS4 gamer I hope i never have to experience it again.
 
EmptySpace said:
this is a 2.35:1 shot

original.jpeg


notice how the shot is framed. characters in both ends and objects are in perfect symmetry.

this is a wider shot of the same scene.

original.jpeg


characters look farther away from the viewer, but strangely both look closer to each other. not as intense as the earlier shot.

people who do not understand how framing works seriously need to shut up about the order 1886.

the question that has to be answered is how they're going to frame those same shots on a free-form camera, albeit they literally set this up for cutscenes and didn't want to break immersion by switching aspect ratios from gameplay to story.
Click to expand...

Great film and good example. If you want that kind of framing you need that aspect ratio. So long as it actually contributes to the final product I'm fine with it in principle (although it does always make me wish I had a TV with that ratio so the screen is filled - maybe one day).
 
Should have aimed for 40fps to get that magical crusty feel, for real gaming.
30fps is like a lame ww2 movie and 60fps is a lubed dildo

Also should have set the resolution to 1886x480 because without scaling it's still more than DR3
 
Well considering the game is supposed to built around soft body physics it should be hella fun regardless of the resolution or duration. I've been itching to see more developers build more interactive worlds. Just hope it's like Red Fraction: Guerilla - imagine having an explosive fire fight with werewolves in a building that's collapsing dynamically around you. If we get something like that I'd be amazed if they got it running at 30fps on PS4 + (for me at least) it would double the replayability.
 
People need to understand that this game IS full HD.
It's simply cropped.

The low quality from sub-hd resolutions comes from the upscaling. There is no upscaling here. It's simply a black bar crop.
I don't like the black bars either, but you aren't getting a lower Image Quality due to that.

People also seem to think that they are going 30fps to give a more cinematic feeling. From from what I understood from the interview, they are going 30fps to give the graphics a big boost, which in turn will make the game feel more real and therefor more cinematic.

I honestly just want the gameplay to be good since it seems like a really cool theme. But the fact that they are dropping the word "cinematic" over and over again makes all my hype go away :(
 
Blinck said:
People need to understand that this game IS full HD.
It's simply cropped.

The low quality from sub-hd resolutions comes from the upscaling. There is no upscaling here. It's simply a black bar crop.
I don't like the black bars either, but you aren't getting a lower Image Quality due to that.
Click to expand...
Resolution is an aspect of image quality. Lower resolution is lower image quality. Lower resolution is less information.
Forgive me for quoting myself:
Cizeta-Moroder said:
Totally 1080p because No Scaling™!
30012014591zyuko.jpg
Click to expand...
 
DBT85 said:
But it is being made with the intention of looking like one and so you would think RAD will make it play well.

If the game sucks and bombs, nobody is going to point toward it having bars as the reason.

I just want RAD to make the game, to their own design.
Click to expand...

The game without no doubt looks good. But when I buy games I want to play games. Games that feels like games. If I want movie like experiences, I watch a movie. I didn't buy a 55 inch TV to have one third of it being filled up with black bars.
 
Cizeta-Moroder said:
Resolution is an aspect of image quality. Lower resolution is lower image quality. Lower resolution is less information.
Forgive me for quoting myself:
Click to expand...

That argument is completely and 100% faulty.
So you are telling me that 90% of the movies these days are not "full hd" ? Because most movies also have black bars.

Yes I understand that the "full hd" you are talking about is strictly 1920*1080.
But usually Full Hd is only referred to the horizontal resolution. That's when aspect ratios come in play. This game is Full HD, but it has a movie aspect ratio.

Again, you are not losing Image Quality, you are just losing "image".
And even this is not true, because the game was obviously made with this aspect ratio in mind, so in truth you aren't really losing anything.

Or are you also gonna tell me that you are losing image quality in a movie because there are black bars?

EDIT: Also, I hope you understand that when people talk about Image Quality they are referring to the crispiness of the image. IQ goes down the drain when you are "stretching" pixels due to upscaling. There is no upscaling here like I said. Cropping the image doesn't make it have lower quality. This game will be very crisp because it's running at a native resolution.
 
DBT85 said:
Nobody is arguing that only rendering 1920x800 is saving them a ton of power to use for the rest of the game, that is obvious.

The argument is whether they went 1920x800 to save on power, or if they wanted to go 1920x800 regardless and that having extra power was a bonus of a design choice rather than the reason FOR the design choice.
Click to expand...

It's not a ton of power though, dropping to that resolution reduces render requirement by only 14% overall. And if they are using a wider FOV than normally seen in most TPS then that brings about a performance hit that should knock down that 14% gain by quite a margin.

I fully believe that this was done for artistic purposes because it was made before the PS4 specs were finalised.
 
Blinck said:
That argument is completely and 100% faulty.
So you are telling me that 90% of the movies these days are not "full hd" ? Because most movies also have black bars.Yes I understand that the "full hd" you are talking about is strictly 1920*1080.
But usually Full Hd is only referred to the horizontal resolution. That's when aspect ratios come in play. This game is Full HD, but it has a movie aspect ratio.
Click to expand...
When it fails to fill a full HD display without scaling, it's not full HD.

Blinck said:
Again, you are not losing Image Quality, you are just losing "image".
And even this is not true, because the game was obviously made with this aspect ratio in mind, so in truth you aren't really losing anything.
Or are you also gonna tell me that you are losing image quality in a movie because there are black bars?
Click to expand...
Losing image is losing image quality. Trying to represent the same scene in a smaller image (=less resolution) will result in a loss of quality.
 
Number45 said:
I thought it had been confirmed that the full 1080 lines are being rendered, just some of them rendered black? Is that now not the case?
Click to expand...

Blinck said:
Yes it is. The game is Full HD. Just think of the black bars as "part of the graphics".
Click to expand...

It has 1920 horizontal lines and only 800 vertical lines, so the amount of pixels is less than 1920x1080. Those black bars dont need to be rendered as they are just pixels with no information. It needs no scaling and has 1:1 pixel mapping, so IQ should be great but its still not 1080p which is fullHD. Black bars are not part of any graphics, they are just black. The wider aspect ratio is part of the art direction.
 
Frillen said:
Yep, but the Defense Force in this thread says it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

To be fair, we dont know if it really crops the image or really extends the aspect ratio, in order to have a wider field of view. If they are going for a cinematic experience, then the latter might be the case. I dont like this widescreen picture either, but before we go into hyperbole mode, we better point out what a wider image means.
 
Cizeta-Moroder said:
When it fails to fill a full HD display without scaling, it's not full HD.


Losing image is losing image quality. Trying to represent the same scene in a smaller image (=less resolution) will result in a loss of quality.
Click to expand...

Jesus man....the game IS in full hd. The black bars are part of the image. The game is rendering 1920*1080. But only 800 pixels of the vertical resolution are displaying something other than black.

Your second point is also illogical.
Is it so hard to understand that they are not representing the same scene in a smaller image? That's the aspect ratio of the game. They are representing all they want. You are not losing anything.

Yes, I know that what you want is them to "ADD" to the vertical resolution. But you need to understand that the game is made with this aspect ratio in mind. It's an art direction decision, whether you like it or not.

Again I ask you, do you say you are "losing image quality" when you watch a movie that has black bars ( which is 90% of them )
 
Cizeta-Moroder said:
Losing image is losing image quality. Trying to represent the same scene in a smaller image (=less resolution) will result in a loss of quality.
Click to expand...
Wrong.
Cizeta-Moroder said:
Losing image is losing image quality. Trying to represent the same scene in a smaller image (=less resolution) will result in a loss of quality.
Click to expand...
Double wrong.

I won't even bother explaining myself since people already told you why you're wrong.
 
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