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The popularity of visual novel games

S

Speevy

Banned
I was wondering if someone could enlighten me on the appeal of visual novel games.

This is not one of those stupid "I DONT LIKE THING, AM I THE ONLY ONE" threads. Quite the opposite.

I am always intrigued by the evolution of tastes and the emergence of genres that weren't popular in a region, but suddenly become so.

Some of the most popular and highest rated games on Steam are visual novels. Now, I'm not saying this is the most popular genre in all of gaming. Clearly it's not. But it's certainly much more popular than you might expect, at least from what I have seen.

So here are my questions.

What is the experience like of playing one of these games?

What are the best entries in this genre, and how do you really tell them apart from the lesser ones?

Would you say that these games are as popular as I'm imagining, or am I just mistaken?

Thanks.
 
They're like choose-your-own adventure dialogue-heavy comic books with puzzles sometimes thrown in.

Popular ones seem to be related to murder mysteries or scenarios involving death, murder, and betrayal. They're just fun to read/play and have interesting stories. A lot of people like ones that revolve around dating and stuff? But those aren't for me, personally.

The ace attorney games are what got me into the genre, so give the AA trilogy on 3DS a try.

999/VLR were the next big ones I played and I liked them a lot. Just started ZTD (the third in the trilogy) and I have a few others in the backlog to get into (danganronpa 1 + 2, Steins gate, etc)

And like most choose your own adventure books, there's usually the 'correct' path that leads to the true ending, though not all VNs let you make choices like that. 999/VLR/ZTD have you witness multiple endings on purpose until you find the true ending. The true ending doesn't even usually make much sense until you've seen a few of the bad endings first. Ace attorney games are super linear but they have fun courtroom battles where you solve logic puzzles by presenting evidence.
 
One of my favorite genres. My first visual novel game was Ace Attorney, and I'd still say it's my favorite series in the genre. The appeal of them is the great storytelling and memorable characters. Other great ones are Ghost Trick, Steins;Gate, Danganronpa, and Zero Escape.
 
georly said:
They're like choose-your-own adventure dialogue heavy comic books with puzzles sometimes thrown in.

Popular ones seem to be related to murder mysteries or scenarios involving death, murder, and betrayal. They're just fun to read/play and have interesting stories.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this. I prefer the ones with mostly static portraits and stuff like Steins; Gate and 999.
 
It's like the CYOA books that I grew up with, but you know, for an older age bracket.

Pretty simple appeal, pretty fun stuff.

I feel like I could pull out some pedantry about the above posts which are talking about hybridized VNs (they're really visual novel-adventure games), but I digress.
 
They tell good/entertaining stories while also having varying degrees of interactivity and sometimes even choice & consequence mechanics that let you choose your own story or in case of games like 999 & Virtue's Last Reward, the replaying of the story in different ways is a big part of the overall story. Story is probably paramount, as there are plenty of visual novels that have enjoyable stories but gameplay is very superficial or almost non-existent, though not all visual novels have bad gameplay.
 
In this genre, I've only ever played 999 and Corpse Party. 999 was one of the better DS games I've ever played, Corpse Party is one of the worst games I've ever played, period. As far as I can tell this genre is entirely dependent on the quality of the narrative, and when a game like Corpse Party has one of the worst narrative's I've ever experienced in any genre of game, I just don't get what's left to like.
 
georly said:
They're like choose-your-own adventure dialogue-heavy comic books with puzzles sometimes thrown in.

Popular ones seem to be related to murder mysteries or scenarios involving death, murder, and betrayal. They're just fun to read/play and have interesting stories. A lot of people like ones that revolve around dating and stuff? But those aren't for me, personally.

The ace attorney games are what got me into the genre, so give the AA trilogy on 3DS a try.
999/VLR were the next big ones I played and I liked them a lot. Just started ZTD (the third in the trilogy) and I have a few others in the backlog to get into (danganronpa 1 + 2, Steins gate, etc)
Click to expand...

Yep, pretty much. For me, it was 999 which got me into the genre.

> What are the best entries in this genre?
Zero Escape Series, Danganronpa Series, Ace Attorney series, Steins;gate and Steins;gate 0, Fate/Stay Night, Clannad are some of the few VN which i loved.
 
All about the stories and characters for me. Visual novels have some of the best/craziest.

I really think handhelds are the perfect platform for VNs. It's so awesome playing a little bit in bed each night. It's not too taxing, so you can kind of relax and enjoy the story unfold.
 
I'm no expert, but from what I've played Ace Attorney, Dangan Ronpa, and the Zero Escape series are all pretty good. I especially like VLR and Ace Attorney 3. But you should probably play games in order to get an understanding of the story, even though most of Ace Attorney 2 sort of sucks.

Some of Kojimas early games I think qualify, that or you would say they are just adventure games. Never played Snatcher or Police Nauts.
 
I don't think of them as games. They're digital graphic novels with choose your own adventure branches. The appeal is the same as why you'd want to read a comic book. Because the art and story look interesting. The added interactivity and voice acting make it an appealing product to people who just want to chill and read.

Some are also combined with adventure or mystery game aspects, so they appeal to fans of those too.
 
It's like reading... only I have to do less of it... and I help choose the outcome.

I don't see why visual novels are a foreign or hard to understand concept actually.
 
I play very few because the ones I do play I get involved to the point that I always have to 100% them and see every piece of dialogue.

The good ones are usually very good and always have be engrossed. The bad ones are usually pretty bad.

For me I haven't really read/played a mediocre one not in my memory anyway.
 
georly said:
They're like choose-your-own adventure dialogue heavy comic books with puzzles sometimes thrown in.

Popular ones seem to be related to murder mysteries or scenarios involving death, murder, and betrayal. They're just fun to read/play and have interesting stories.
Click to expand...

Basically. They're often more of an audio/visual extension of books than they are actual games. As if it wasn't apparent by the name. ;)

I don't see them as being popular at all though. At least not in the grand scheme of things. Just well liked by those that do play them.
 
I don't know what OP is asking about. I assume it's text heavy adventure game like AA. They are fairly popular. AA6 just sold more than 200k copy in the first week in Japan.

As for real VNs, by that I mean multiple routes (not just multiple endings) and no puzzle VNs, the audience is extremely narrow because:

1. Most of them are exclusive to PC.
2. Many of them are not translated. I can easily name many VNs that are considered the best in the genre in Japan but generally unknown in the west.
3. Most of them have adult content, and some of them (even some of the best I'd say) contain highly controversial content such as raping, sex with minors, and other abuse. Also incest, get prepared for a lot of incest.

When you get something like S;G that avoids all three factors I mentioned above, it can get quite popular.
 
Zalman said:
One of my favorite genres. My first visual novel game was Ace Attorney, and I'd still say it's my favorite series in the genre. The appeal of them is the great storytelling and memorable characters. Other great ones are Ghost Trick, Steins;Gate, Danganronpa, and Zero Escape.
Click to expand...

Hard for me to add anything else to the above post to be honest ! He's right :)
 
I think the proximate cause of the Steam thing is that animu people are a) voracious consumers b) with very low standards. So there's a small niche audience that buys all of these and they all love all of them. When I say "has low standards", I'm not being judgmental, people can like anything they like, what I mean is that if the game is anime, and has some of their fav tropes (including but not limited to boobs), then they like it regardless of whatever drawbacks, including ESL-level writing, dumb or implausible scenarios, poor audiovisual quality, poor ports, poor value for money, etc.

There have been like 30 Sakura games and as far I can tell people only buy them to see nipple-less anime boobs on poor off-model or inconsistently-modeled art.

This doesn't take away from all the less-animu less-titty visual novels out there, I just wanted to explain why you see so many so highly rated on Steam.
 
I'm just going to add that I'm not a fan of the term "visual novel". Maybe it's because the term originated in Japan (I think), and something got lost in translation, but aren't all novels "visual novels" unless they are audiobooks or braille?
 
Goldenroad said:
I'm just going to add that I'm not a fan of the term "visual novel". Maybe it's because the term originated in Japan (I think), and something got lost in translation, but aren't all novels "visual novels" unless they are audiobooks or braille?
Click to expand...

well, the west had a genre called "graphical text adventure" for about a decade, so...
 
Stumpokapow said:
I think the proximate cause of the Steam thing is that animu people are a) voracious consumers b) with very low standards. So there's a small niche audience that buys all of these and they all love all of them. When I say "has low standards", I'm not being judgmental, people can like anything they like, what I mean is that if the game is anime, and has some of their fav tropes (including but not limited to boobs), then they like it regardless of whatever drawbacks, including ESL-level writing, dumb or implausible scenarios, poor audiovisual quality, poor ports, poor value for money, etc.

There have been like 30 Sakura games and as far I can tell people only buy them to see nipple-less anime boobs on poor off-model or inconsistently-modeled art.
Click to expand...
That's mostly true, but part of the "low standards" of course comes from a dearth of translated material. I don't know that the people playing them "love all of them," I'd reckon a lot of people are fairly aware that the stuff they play on Steam is pretty close to dogshit. But some play it to get their jollies off (I mean 90% of the reviews on those games are literally joke reviews about masturbating) and because there isn't much else to play if you like the genre.

EDIT: Thinking about it some more, of course the other thing is that some players probably do genuinely love the Steam VNs they play. But again I'd imagine that is at least in part a product of having such limited access to good VNs that they don't know what good VNs are...
 
Goldenroad said:
I'm just going to add that I'm not a fan of the term "visual novel". Maybe it's because the term originated in Japan (I think), and something got lost in translation, but aren't all novels "visual novels" unless they are audiobooks or braille?
Click to expand...

That's being pedantic. Visuals as opposed (or rather in addition) to text.
 
They're like novels. Hence the name. But visual. Like comics/manga basically.

They might not be the most "gamey" of videogame genres, but usually they at least get decision making and consequences right, as opposed to Telltale/David Cage kind of games.
 
Stumpokapow said:
well, the west had a genre called "graphical text adventure" for about a decade, so...
Click to expand...

Sure....That seems a little more descriptive of what that kind of game actually was though. Maybe Graphical Interactive Novel might just not be so vague...It seems like the Interactive part is the key differentiater between these games and an actual novel that you see with your eyes.
 
They're popular because most people appreciate a good story, and in the case of VN's they get the option to have some amount of input into the story. Didn't like that Clannad-Man ended up with Nagisa in the anime? Well hop on to the VN and hook up with Kotomi instead.

If you want to know anything about a VN just check out the Visual Novel Database, it's not the end all be all on whether a VN is good or not but it usually help you avoid the real stinkers.
 
I don't think they're that popular, it's just that Japanese games are still kind of a novelty on Steam so they're more visible than western indie game #23438590.

As for the genre itself: it's like reading a good book. It's as simple as that. Interaction, voice acting, animations, boobs, are all nice bonuses but the main point is the story. Quality is extremely variable, but isn't it always like that?
 
Speevy said:
When I do a search for games on Steam and sort by user rating first, this is on the first list.


http://store.steampowered.com/app/316720/
Click to expand...

To throw a wrench in labelling these games, I don't think that Kinetic Novels like planetarian merit mention in the same category as actual Visual Novels.

A Kinetic Novel has absolutely no choices or alternate endings. You literally progress through it by reading it. It's like a glorified picture book, not at all like a CYOA.
 
In terms of popularity, they seem like a legitimate genre in Japan, but they're pretty much as niche as you can get in the West. Just my perspective.

Goldenroad said:
I'm just going to add that I'm not a fan of the term "visual novel". Maybe it's because the term originated in Japan (I think), and something got lost in translation, but aren't all novels "visual novels" unless they are audiobooks or braille?
Click to expand...
You consider text on a page and nothing else "visual"?
 
What is the experience like of playing one of these games?
Like reading a good book, but with picture and some slight interactive choice in how the story unfolds, but not really all that much.

What are the best entries in this genre, and how do you really tell them apart from the lesser ones?
Ace Attorney and Hotel Dusk. I tell them apart because they are reviewed better and have better word of mouth. Just like pretty much any book...or movie...or video game.

Would you say that these games are as popular as I'm imagining, or am I just mistaken?
I mean, I don't have Steam, but play consoles (often) and handhelds (rarely). So I don't see them as being very popular. I can't imagine a visual novel being a system seller...
 
Trigonometrize. said:
You consider text on a page and nothing else "visual"?
Click to expand...

No, I'm saying that a "visual novel" is a novel that you read by seeing it, including a graphic novel, or a juvenile novel or whatever. I'm just saying wouldn't "interactive visual novel", define this genre of game more aptly?

EDIT: In fact, take the "visual" out entirely, it's understood that games need to be seen.
 
Goldenroad said:
I'm just going to add that I'm not a fan of the term "visual novel". Maybe it's because the term originated in Japan (I think), and something got lost in translation, but aren't all novels "visual novels" unless they are audiobooks or braille?
Click to expand...

But if you hear something, and then imagine it in your head, isn't it visual too?
 
Speevy said:
When I do a search for games on Steam and sort by user rating first, this is on the first list.


http://store.steampowered.com/app/316720/
Click to expand...

Danganrapa can fit in the AA-like text heavy adventure game category. These games have fostered a somewhat steady and loud fanbase as apparent on GAF.

Clanned fits in my second category. It's considered one of the best traditional VNs worldwide, plus it was localized fairly early and it doesn't contain adult content (its sequel, or fandisk, however, does contain adult content just like S;G). I'd say it's well deserved to have some of the best traditional VNs to hold such high spots on Steam because they usually have the best writings and characters among everything on Steam.

I see some lackluster VNs also get high ratings. I think it's because the small fanbase is thirsty and they don't have good taste.
 
Mohasus said:
But if you hear something, and then imagine it in your head, isn't it visual too?
Click to expand...

I'm using the word "visual" as stemming from the word vision, meaning:

vi·sion
ˈviZHən/Submit
noun
1.
the faculty or state of being able to see.
"she had defective vision"

I guess you can visualize what food tastes like, but I assume visual refers to the fact that you tend to be looking at the screen/reading th text.
 
Goldenroad said:
No, I'm saying that a "visual novel" is a novel that you read by seeing it, including a graphic novel, or a juvenile novel or whatever. I'm just saying wouldn't "interactive visual novel", define this genre of game more aptly?

EDIT: In fact, take the "visual" out entirely, it's understood that games need to be seen.
Click to expand...

I would say that visual novel is a video game genre, so it's implied that it's interactive. "Visual novel" works because you could make a video game with interaction but it lacking in visuals. I guess that would be a text adventure.
 
Most of the highest selling visual novels in the western regions are either Eroges, feature/are built around a lot of fan service, or have an 18+ patch. (I can thank of 1-2 exceptions off hand)

That might give you an indication of the reasons they get so popular.

Now as for the good ones/why people tend to rate them so highly. I've only played a handful (and have finished even less) however the funny thing is the best part of them are the engrossing story and characters it's the same reason you read a good book just with the addition of animated visuals and a bit of interaction (both of which help to increase empathy with the characters). It's kind of funny really it's my personal hypothesis that people initially play these to get their jollies on but by the time they get to that point have become invested in the characters and story and up finishing it.

A good intro to VN's is Katawa Shoujou it's free and really good.
 
My first contact with Visual novels was:

Tsukihime
Fate Stay Night

After this, I can guess Phoenix Wright games also count, but they were the only ones I fully "played"

The storylines were pretty great, fantastic writing, the sex scenes seem to be a token but more like a small prize.

I never played another Visual Novel apart from these, I had the interest on Umineko - When they Cry, but I've grown quite angered against anime in general (because it stopped catering to my interests), don't know if I can go back.
 
Trigonometrize. said:
I would say that visual novel is a video game genre, so it's implied that it's interactive. "Visual novel" works because you could make a video game with interaction but it lacking in visuals. I guess that would be a text adventure.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I agree with your premise. Extrapolating that out, that would mean any game that is not a text adventure is a visual novel, and I don't think that's correct. Actually you do see the words in a text adventure too, so that is visual also. "Graphical" would make more sense than "visual" in this instance.
 
Speevy said:
So here are my questions.

What is the experience like of playing one of these games?

What are the best entries in this genre, and how do you really tell them apart from the lesser ones?

Would you say that these games are as popular as I'm imagining, or am I just mistaken?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

They're like choose your own adventure books but with animated cut scenes.

There's two types of visual novel, really. The ones I like are sci-fi/horror. 999 for example, is akin to something like the Saw movies, and features an incredibly intricate plot which just wouldn't work in any other format.

On the other side, there's low effort "let's date an anime girl" stories. Not really that keen on these, and there's a lot "Screw the plot! You can see boobs!"

I think games like Danganronpa and 999 have increased the popularity in the West, but I think the genre is still relatively niche. I'd be amazed if you ever saw one unveiled at E3, for example.
 
The brilliance of visual novels is pacing. You get great characters, great story, light gameplay elements. Most are a slow burn. Ace Attorney specializes in humor, while Corpse Party specializes in horror, Zero Escape in mystery and mindfuckery, Danganronpa in despair of course.
 
Visual novels, at least the ones that I like and tend to be popular over in the west, are pretty much known for an engrossing story, good characters, and plot twists galore.

Ace Attorney - You play as a defense attorney. Most boring premise ever becomes one of the most epic trilogy in games.
Danganronpa - A group of high schoolers are kidnapped and held captive. They can escape, but only if they murder a fellow student and get away with the crime. Who has orchestrated this devious plot, and can you solve the numerous mysteries this game has to offer?
Ghost Trick - You're dead. But how did you die...? Play a poltergeist manipulating Rube Goldberg style machines in a journey to discover the truth behind your demise.
999 series - I actually haven't played this yet, but heard lots of great things about it.
 
Goldenroad said:
I don't know if I agree with your premise. Extrapolating that out, that would mean any game that is not a text adventure is a visual novel, and I don't think that's correct. Actually you do see the words in a text adventure too, so that is visual also. "Graphical" would make more sense than "visual" in this instance.
Click to expand...

Graphical novel*

*different from graphic novel

This is too hard for me. I'll let the Japanese just name it for us.
 
What is the experience like of playing one of these games?
Click to expand...

Entertaining books with mediocre writing and AWFUL pacing.

What are the best entries in this genre, and how do you really tell them apart from the lesser ones?
Click to expand...

That's actually very hard. Because most VNs rely on extreme wish-fulfillment, you get people telling you stuff like Muv-Luv Alternative and Clannad are the Count of Montecristo of our times.

They are divided in a bunch of sub-genre, like Otome, dating sims, etc. But mostly you'll want to avoid the FUCK ALL THE HEROINES! kind-of stories. When you'll see one, you'll know it.

Would you say that these games are as popular as I'm imagining, or am I just mistaken?
Click to expand...

They are a niche. Stuff like Phoenix Wright is as popular a VN can get.
 
What is the experience like of playing one of these games?
Like reading a good book that you happen to be in control of some of the situations sometimes resulting in an early ending or dead end depending the type of VN you're playing.

What are the best entries in this genre, and how do you really tell them apart from the lesser ones?
I havent played too many but I recommend The House in Fata Morgana, Higurashi When They Cry (Question Arc), 999 and the upcoming Umineko When They Cry (Question Arc). As for the bad ones usually read reviews and if any of them have a demo play it and see a bit of it to see if Im interested or not.

Would you say that these games are as popular as I'm imagining, or am I just mistaken?
They are not that popular but I would say they are making a buzz. The word of mouth is spreading more these days for the genre and its nice to see more people get into it.
 
Gonna say Stump is on the nose there regarding the popularity. There is potential in the VN format to make a quality and unique game, but that's not always the route to success. Many are successful just as he described and not required to be a very good product.

I did like Hatoful Boyfriend. It felt more like reading a funny manga than playing a game. It's a quality thing, tho. Game or not.
 
randomengine said:
The brilliance of visual novels is pacing. You get great characters, great story, light gameplay elements. Most are a slow burn. Ace Attorney specializes in humor, while Corpse Party specializes in horror, Zero Escape in mystery and mindfuckery, Danganronpa in despair of course.
Click to expand...

Ace Attorney has humor, but the cases and the logical deductions are the draw. Besides the character personalities and exaggerated faces.
 
What is the experience like of playing one of these games?
Relaxing - mostly reading and light gameplay elements, some of which will really test your brain and you will lose sleep when you really enjoy one.

What are the best entries in this genre, and how do you really tell them apart from the lesser ones?

Ace Attorney - Great humor, mystery
Zero Escape (999/VLR/ZTD) - philosophy, horror, science fiction and mystery
Danganronpa - Horror, humor, and over the top violence, also mystery.
Professor Layton - Puzzles and Mystery

Those are series, good one-offs include:
Hotel Dusk
Ghost Trick

Pretty much any visual novel that sells at retail is a good one. Ace Attorney lately has not been at retail, but that is an exception. There are a ton of visual novels on PC that I would consider B-tier or less. The best ones appear to be on dedicated handhelds.

Would you say that these games are as popular as I'm imagining, or am I just mistaken?

They are a niche. The ones who love them, REALLY love them. I have played almost all the Ace Attorney games, the main Danganronpas, 999/VLR, and almost all the Laytons.
 
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