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[vkbest]

But this comes only from mild leak, I don't think Cerny or Sony ever confirmed it. Official info is "45% more power".

45% is a theoretical number. You can get lower if the game sucks or its a older game previous to PS5 pro release, and you can get more than that theoretical 45% in some procedural task or shaders where they don't stress the bandwidth. That assuming the game is not using RT

 

[Bojji]

You conviently don't agree with it and the 45% is a moddest raster number from Sony that has been already out done in some cases.
Not looking up the examples so don't bother.

Most raster games show ~30% difference, 45% it "up to" number for raster.

45% is a theoretical number. You can get lower if the game sucks or its a older game previous to PS5 pro release, and you can get more than that theoretical 45% in some procedural task or shaders where they don't stress the bandwidth. That assuming the game is not using RT

Theoretical number is 67%, 45% is closer to real life results.

 

[winjer]

The question of PS5 vs Pro ray tracing performance is not just about one metric. A lot of things have improved, some of which were significant bottlenecks for RT in the base PS5. Consider Amdahl's law for this.
The PS5 can do 4 Bounding Box tests, CU, per clock. The Pro can do 8. But the Pro uses the RDNA4, which supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, so supposedly the Pro also has this, which means fewer false positives.
So the real world BVH test performance of the Pro will be significantly higher than what the theoretical numbers suggest.
The PS5 can do only one ray-triangle intersection test, per clock cycle. The Pro can do 2 tests. This means the PS5 can theoretically do 80 billion tests per second. While the Pro can do 280 Billion.
A nice improvement, but then there is the problem with shader occupancy, which craters while doing RT. The PS5 has 128kb of L1 cache. The Pro has 256kb. This means higher L1 cache hit rates, that can allow for switching to other task faster, having fewer stalls in the shader unit.
And then there is the issue with the PS5 having the RT units coupled in the TMUs. Meaning contention between work for textures and work for ray-tracing.
There is also the problem that the PS5 doesn't have dedicated hardware to traverse a BVH tree. So it has to do it in shaders or the CPU. But the Pro has it, so it doesn't have to waste compute power on this.
The Pro doesn't have this issue. So again, it's able to reach closer to it's theoretical limit.
These are just a few examples, of how the PS5 will hit limits much sooner than the Pro.

 

[Bojji]

The question of PS5 vs Pro ray tracing performance is not just about one metric. A lot of things have improved, some of which were significant bottlenecks for RT in the base PS5. Consider Amdahl's law for this.
The PS5 can do 4 Bounding Box tests, CU, per clock. The Pro can do 8. But the Pro uses the RDNA4, which supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, so supposedly the Pro also has this, which means fewer false positives.
So the real world BVH test performance of the Pro will be significantly higher than what the theoretical numbers suggest.
The PS5 can do only one ray-triangle intersection test, per clock cycle. The Pro can do 2 tests. This means the PS5 can theoretically do 80 billion tests per second. While the Pro can do 280 Billion.
A nice improvement, but then there is the problem with shader occupancy, which craters while doing RT. The PS5 has 128kb of L1 cache. The Pro has 256kb. This means higher L1 cache hit rates, that can allow for switching to other task faster, having fewer stalls in the shader unit.
And then there is the issue with the PS5 having the RT units coupled in the TMUs. Meaning contention between work for textures and work for ray-tracing.
There is also the problem that the PS5 doesn't have dedicated hardware to traverse a BVH tree. So it has to do it in shaders or the CPU. But the Pro has it, so it doesn't have to waste compute power on this.
The Pro doesn't have this issue. So again, it's able to reach closer to it's theoretical limit.
These are just a few examples, of how the PS5 will hit limits much sooner than the Pro.

But all this is about RT calculations. With hybrid RT just part of the calculations are RT based, rest is standard raster stuff and Pro has no benefits here over standard PS5 (other than bigger GPU and higher memory BW of course). So even with 3x-4x better RT hardware you will never get 3x-4x better final results, unless your game is done in pure path tracing with no raster.

This is the same kind of nonsense MLID repeats when he talks about PS6 being 10x better in RT than PS5 - he thinks that would mean PS6 games will look/perform 10x better overall.

 

[Vick]

T

Thread 'Valve increases price of Steamdeck - $789 512gb/$949 1tb'

Yesterday at 6:29 PM

Steam Deck™

Steam Deck™ is the most powerful, full-featured gaming handheld in the world.

store.steampowered.com

Steam Machine gonna be expensive.

• Tg89
• Replies: 551
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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[winjer]

But all this is about RT calculations. With hybrid RT just part of the calculations are RT based, rest is standard raster stuff and Pro has no benefits here over standard PS5 (other than bigger GPU and higher memory BW of course). So even with 3x-4x better RT hardware you will never get 3x-4x better final results, unless your game is done in pure path tracing with no raster.

This is the same kind of nonsense MLID repeats when he talks about PS6 being 10x better in RT than PS5 - he thinks that would mean PS6 games will look/perform 10x better overall.

But that is what Cerny said. Up to 4X RT performance increase over the base PS5.

 

[PaintTinJr]

But this comes only from mild leak, I don't think Cerny or Sony ever confirmed it. Official info is "45% more power".

The new BVH structure/extension in the Pro was mentioned by Cerny as one source of the RT improvement on the Pro - because of parallelism IIRC.

 

[winjer]

The new BVH structure/extension in the Pro was mentioned by Cerny as one source of the RT improvement on the Pro - because of parallelism IIRC.

BTW, can you confirm if the Pro supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, just like RDNA4?

 

[Karim]

But that is what Cerny said. Up to 4X RT performance increase over the base PS5.

From what I remembered he said common 2x, 3x/4x somehow in very limited scenario. Anyway he stayed quite vague about what such multiple really mean.

 

[PaintTinJr]

BTW, can you confirm if the Pro supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, just like RDNA4?

This is the technical document for RDNA4 BVH which AI returned as it source for confirming the pro has oriented BB (BVH8, which is what the Pro uses IIRC), so AFAIK it comes with the BVH8 feature.

New AMD Radeon™ Raytracing Analyzer (RRA) v1.8 adds support for AMD Radeon™ RX 9000 Series GPUs and more - AMD GPUOpen

Explore Radeon Raytracing Analyzer v1.8, now supporting Radeon RX 9000 Series GPUs with enhanced BVH formats, including oriented bounding boxes and expanded node capacity.

gpuopen.com

 

[yogaflame]

If you have ps5 pro right now, cherish it because Ps6, Helix, Steam and next gen PC GPU will not be cheap.

 

[evanft]

In general, people that bought consoles and PC parts in 2024/early 2025 are the real winners here.

I paid MSRP for a 4090 in early 2023. I feel like Nostradamus.

But nothing beats the OLED Steam Deck I picked up days before they went OOS earlier this year.

 

[Bojji]

The new BVH structure/extension in the Pro was mentioned by Cerny as one source of the RT improvement on the Pro - because of parallelism IIRC.

BTW, can you confirm if the Pro supports Oriented Bounding Boxes, just like RDNA4?

From what I remembered he said common 2x, 3x/4x somehow in very limited scenario. Anyway he stayed quite vague about what such multiple really mean.

The more RT the game uses the bigger the difference between the Pro and base PS5 will be.

For raster games we see quite typical 30-40% uplift, sometimes some of that can be eaten up by PSSR (if FSR2/3 reconstruction is not present on base console, just some basic upscaling). But when RT is in play, differences can be much bigger like with Cyberpunk and Crimson Desert.

Raster only games (or games using CUs for software RT like UE5 titles) are still a majority of releases but every year there are more games supporting RT.