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The REAL February NBA Thread - Accept No Substitute
- Thread starter DMczaf
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Ninja Scooter
Member
False alarm guys. "Boozer to the Lakers" just means Rudy T is coming back.
Uhh which is why I said teams go for the athlete over the shooter so they can create their own shot.
And I HOPE you aren't ignoring the obvious influence Jordan has on the fact that no young basketball player these days can shoot a free throw or midrange shot. Jordan hit threes and dunked, so thats what they want to do. They want to drive and finish, back off and they hit the three. Sure, if they copy Jordans shot then they work on that fall away jumper or turn around jumper. They still brick an open 18 foot jumper, because thats not what made Jordan famous.
Ninja Scooter
Member
holy crap Ginobli even talks like Bronson Pinchot. And Yao should ever be allowed to talk at all. Even Tracy was wondering WTF he said.
etiolate said:
Etiolate don't even try. If you ever try and argue with Loki that Jordan was not the greatest at anything you will bring the wrath of Jordaphiles everywhere down upon yourself.
I think I once had an argument where Loki tried to convince me that Jordan was the tallest player to ever play the game.
Ninja Scooter
Member
:lol
"Ready?
...
Happy bastard kenny!"
"Ready?
...
Happy bastard kenny!"
Ninja Scooter
Member
"I wanted the number 4 with noodles, not rice motherfucker!"
etiolate said:
Yeah, but my point is that it doesn't matter if you can create your own shot if you then can't hit that shot. Many/most of the guys who are really good at creating their own shot (i.e., athletically gifted players) don't put in the necessary work to develop their shot. That's all I was saying.
That was marketing more than anything else. Yes, Jordan was the most exciting player of his era due to his athleticism and ability, but that doesn't change the fact that he had a very consistent midrange jumper from his rookie year. Catch-and-shoots, coming off baseline screens or curls and receiving the pass and just popping-- he was making a very high percentage of those shots from the very beginning. Unfortunately, that doesn't sell well, so it wasn't what was focused on. But I'd say that his shooting and fundamentals, more than anything else, made him the unstoppable scorer he was. No less an authority than Magic Johnson said that he was the most fundamentally sound player in the league back in '89. Can you really say that about any of the big name perimeter players today? No-- the only stars you really hear that about are Duncan and KG, and rightly so.
I think you're wrong to lay the blame for that at Jordan's feet rather than the NBA marketing machine, because for any student of the game who was watching, the consistency of his jumper, his footwork, and his off-the-ball movement were self-evident. Can h really be blamed for having athletic and creative gifts, the same way Dr. J did (though to a much greater degree, which is why the effect on the subsequent generation was greater)? I don't think that's fair. And contrary to popular belief, he never dominated the ball or dribbled around for 10-15 seconds looking for his shot the way these new players do. These new players saw that sometimes he'd face his man up and put a couple of moves on them with the dribble, or try to drive it (total time: 3-5 seconds, max), and wanted to do the same. They've taken it to ridiculous heights, though, where guys now go one-on-one for like 8-12 seconds, and initiate several separate pick and rolls for themselves before giving up the ball. Jordan didn't do that, contrary to what people may think; he was very efficient-- in his scoring, his movements, and in setting up his shots.
This has just been the general progression of the game, based on how the media has portrayed it. I think at some point, however (and I think we're at that point, though team ball is making somewhat of a comeback), it starts being detrimental to the game overall, and cheapens the game.
Ninja Scooter
Member
i have a hard time believing that to be honest. Kings and Lakers just won't trade with eachother. Its never gonna happen. Hell, the Kings went in and threw a bid to the Magic for Cuttino Mobley just to keep the Lakers from getting him.
Cloudy said:
That's funny because it would be impossible to trade Odom for Peja straight up. Their salaries don't match. Those ESPN people are just talking out of their asses. They know nothing about the Lakers. They need to check their facts before they start spreading rumors.
etiolate said:
Funny that this is Jordans fault, especially seeing that he was MONEY from 18 feet and the foul line.
There are a lot of stupid ballplayers out there. But it's not because of Jordans game. Heck if you want to blame a player then blame Iverson and Marbury. They were two of the first allstar guards that wouldn't shoot a midrange jumper. I can't recall seeing Jordan dick around with the ball dribbling 12 times to set up a pop-back three pointer.
etiolate said:
It has nothing to do with it being Jordan. It has to do with the skills he had.
This is what you posted. Well Jordan was a very good FT shooter. And Jordan was a very good midrange shooter. And Jordan was not a big three point shooter. So I'm just wondering what you are making these comments from. It wasn't until Jordan career was winding down that the NBA started putting out all these videos of dunks and anklebreakers.
IMO the biggest reason there has been so much focus on the three was in response to the popularity of the dunk. Players that couldn't dunk could always shoot the three (that is worth more points) and still have something specail to offer. And we've just seen more and more threes put up over the past 10 years. And I think the dunk has gained so much more focus simply because the game is so much more about embarassing your defender then it is about winning. I'm so sick of seeing players celebrating after every dunk. It's just ridiculous lately. There is much more "show" in the NBA than in years past and that is why players can't shoot. The casual fan doesn't even have a clue that the midrange game has disappeared. But they all know that Vince Carter can dunk over people.
Media not to blame? Not even a bit? Come on.
etiolate said:
But he was not famous for threes. You missed my point. And his game changed a lot as he got older. I can remember friends falling off the Jordan bandwagon because he stopped dunking and going to the hoop as much as he did when he was younger, their actual complaint was that all he was now was a jump shooter. But I tried to move the conversation away from Jordan there, I guess you are more here to argue. I guess you can do that with Loki then.
All Hail C-Webb
Hailing from the Chill-Web
Matrix said:
She is so fine, I don't care what she screams.
No, I'm just saying that growing up everything was about "I wanna be like Mike" and that was about dunking and driving the ball. Players learn to shoot threes just as a reaction to players backing off of them.
Argh, I don't want to argue. I don't think theres much to argue about.
Argh, I don't want to argue. I don't think theres much to argue about.
Hah, I knew Dan Majerle would be the one to make that halfcourt shot the fastest. 
He used to jack up shots like that with regular shooting form in games. 
And I missed Kelly Clarkson.
A shame, because I've never seen her before (her face, yeah), and everyone's always raving about her rear-end.
EDIT: Is that Magic Johnson...or Warren Sapp!?
He used to jack up shots like that with regular shooting form in games. And I missed Kelly Clarkson.
A shame, because I've never seen her before (her face, yeah), and everyone's always raving about her rear-end. EDIT: Is that Magic Johnson...or Warren Sapp!?
BatiGOOOOOOL
Member
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Ninja Scooter
Member
:lol Gilbert was just like "Fuck it."
:lol No one can throw a bounce pass anymore.
If Magic were dead he would be rolling over in his grave.
I think we can all agree that this is somehow Jordan's fault (had to that in before Loki responded to this by saying how Karl Malone once told SI that Jordan had the greatest bounce pass of her era or some other insane statement).
If Magic were dead he would be rolling over in his grave.
I think we can all agree that this is somehow Jordan's fault (had to that in before Loki responded to this by saying how Karl Malone once told SI that Jordan had the greatest bounce pass of her era or some other insane statement).
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