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The real star of Resident Evil Village’s Maiden demo is the PS5’s 3D audio!

Null Persp

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Sorry but what are the differences between Tempest 3D and other virtual surround implementations?
 

Moogle11

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Sorry but what are the differences between Tempest 3D and other virtual surround implementations?
Remains to be seen. It’s just Sony’s implementation to get around paying licensing fees for Atmos, DTS etc. just like MS has Windows Sonic as theirs. Only time will tell if one is noticeably better than the rest.
 

Tiamat2san

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I would suggest you tried to understand what it really means before writing diminishing comments. Surround sound can be backed in so it's not what people discovered, it's the real time nature of the tech that is interesting. From what I experience it seems to be using ray-tracing for audio occlusion and binaural recorded sample.
I tried the demo.
Once with an atmos receiver and once with a headset.
It’s great and I totally agree that it’s better than the sound of a PS4 pro
but have you played games with Dolby atmos?
It is more impressive with speakers and at least equal if not better with a headset than Sony’s 3D audio
 
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I played the demo twice, once with my (pretty good) surround sound setup, and once with a decent pair of headphones.

I thought the audio in the demo was pretty underwhelming. It felt rushed and rough (like it probably was). Some of the positional audio didn't even work as intended. Just goes to show you how clueless the gaming media is, if they are really calling this kind of audio spectacular. Yeah I know I'm being overly critical, but this is just my reaction to the praise.

I'm still sure the final game will sound great. The 3D audio does help with immersion. I usually play everything with my speaker setup, but this time I might just play with headphones. What I'd really wanna do is to play this in VR with headphones, just like RE7.
 

ManaByte

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I tried the demo.
Once with an atmos receiver and once with a headset.
It’s great and I totally agree that it’s better than the sound of a PS4 pro
but have you played games with Dolby atmos?
It is more impressive with speakers and at least equal if not better with a headset than Sony’s 3D audio

I just played this with a new Pulse 3D and this is true. It's not as impressive as Atmos. If you've never played anything in Atmos, sure you'd make an OP like this. But if you have? This isn't that impressive.
 

RayHell

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I tried the demo.
Once with an atmos receiver and once with a headset.
It’s great and I totally agree that it’s better than the sound of a PS4 pro
but have you played games with Dolby atmos?
It is more impressive with speakers and at least equal if not better with a headset than Sony’s 3D audio
I only played with Pulse 3D since I don't have Atmos setup. While I trust you about sound positioning and quality of Atmos, binaural audio is known to only work with headphones.
 
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Nothing impressive about it. 3D audio is 20 odd years old. It went into hibernation for a few years, and it's nice to see it back, but it's really not innovative. We had this whole sound thing worked out a long time ago.
 
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Tqaulity

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Nothing impressive about it. 3D audio is 20 odd years old. It went into hibernation for a few years, and it's nice to see it back, but it's really not innovative. We had this whole sound thing worked out a long time ago.
Yes 3D audio itself is not new and has been around for a while. BUT 3D audio with native support for video games is still very much in its infancy. Everyone wants to talk about how Dolby Atmos has been around for years on Xbox and PC (which is technically true) but they fail to point out how there are only still a handful of titles that have been developed and designed with native support for Dolby Atmos. Here is the full list straight from Dolby's website: https://www.dolby.com/experience/games/. Yes, in over 5 years there are still less than 2 dozen games with native Atmos support. There is a reason for that! (hint: not very developer friendly and expensive both financially and computationally)

The fact of the matter is that sound in video games has been quite stale for nearly 2 decades. PS2 featured "Dolby Pro Logic" 5.1 surround sound (and DTS as well) and the OG Xbox was the first with Dolby Digital 5.1 (huge jump from Dreamcast, N64, PS1 etc that preceded it). Then the PS3 went to native 7.1 in 2006 and we've been pretty much stuck there ever since. While Xbox and PC has supported Dolby Atmos and other 3D sound solutions, they've largely relied on artificial software processing to achieve the results (as evidenced above) which is nice but not quite as good as a native integration. Think about what Dolby Pro Logic (upmixed) sounded compared to DD 5.1 (native)....pretty noticeable difference.

What game audio needed is a good kick in the butt...someone to really invest in it and push it in a way to make it attractive to developers, easier to implement, and less expensive. The biggest hurdle with advanced audio has always been the computational resources necessary to implement in realtime (even going back to PS2 with DTS that is why it only had a handful of games that supported it). THAT is what Sony is trying to do with Tempest and PS5. While PC and Xbox technically have the hardware, they don't have the drive nor the tools to really elevate 3D audio in a way for it to really penetrate games. The fact that Sony has invested in dedicated hardware, software, marketing, and peripherals to push 3D audio is something to applaud. With developers taking note and designing their games around 3D audio from the jump, we should see (errr...hear) a real jump in sound fidelity and immersion this gen. Of course, with developers paying more attention to sound and investing more resources into 3D audio, every platform should benefit from the advancements. RE8 is just the beginning :)
 
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BUT 3D audio with native support for video games is still very much in its infancy. Everyone wants to talk about how Dolby Atmos has been around for years on Xbox and PC ... Yes, in over 5 years there are still less than 2 dozen games with native Atmos support. There is a reason for that! (hint: not very developer friendly and expensive both financially and computationally)
There were 3D audio implementations long before Atmos. Ever heard of Creative EAX? This tech existed and was computationally realistic in 1999.
Edit: What about DirectSound3D? No? Literally any game using the DirectSound3D library (and many back in the day did) supports true native 3D audio. GTA3 supports it. GTA3...this is not remotely impressive.
 
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Self

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I just played this with a new Pulse 3D and this is true. It's not as impressive as Atmos. If you've never played anything in Atmos

What Atmos do you mean? The atmos app on Series X? I've tried it with Gears 5 and... no, it's not better in any way. Plus it introduces audio delay with many people.

Sony btw doesn't charge you for their new 3D audio technology, it's free for everyone, while MS charges you with 20 bucks for that shit. That's not cool at all.
 

Panajev2001a

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What Atmos do you mean? The atmos app on Series X? I've tried it with Gears 5 and... no, it's not better in any way. Plus it introduces audio delay with many people.

Sony btw doesn't charge you for their new 3D audio technology, it's free for everyone, while MS charges you with 20 bucks for that shit. That's not cool at all.

What, I have not tried ATMOS yet (do not have the speakers for it) nor its variant for headphones which is what Tempest 3D is designed to do: I thought that it was a free download for the XSX, this is not something I have seen Xbox fans advertise much...
 

Panajev2001a

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There were 3D audio implementations long before Atmos. Ever heard of Creative EAX? This tech existed and was computationally realistic in 1999.
Edit: What about DirectSound3D? No? Literally any game using the DirectSound3D library (and many back in the day did) supports true native 3D audio. GTA3 supports it. GTA3...this is not remotely impressive.
I do not think you can compare the kind of 3D audio simulation you had in GTA3 with what say PSVR offered (which required an extra custom audio chip offered in the PSVR additional breakout box and which the Tempest Engine replaces [and then some] in PS5) or what modern iPhones do with AirPod Pro in Spatial Audio mode...
 
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The audio threads here are painful to read. So much ignorance. This is why people keep buying the new "gamer" headsets every few years.

Wake up people. Good audio hardware is supposed to last for decades. You don't need a special "pulse" headset for this 3D audio. What happened to the previous Playstation headset? Did it become obsolete? Or was it just trash in the first place? You should buy a real proper set of headphones that you can use for other purposes as well.
 
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ThatPolishGuy

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Binaural audio is superb on headphones

If they use samples recorded this way with this kind of microphone, we're in a treat


Or

Because it does not fake how we hear stuff it records almost exactly as we hear it.
 
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Binaural audio is superb on headphones

If they use samples recorded this way with this kind of microphone, we're in a treat


Or

Because it does not fake how we hear stuff it records almost exactly as we hear it.
Games are much more complex. Music is easy. There's only one way it's intended to sound. And listened. Games are chaotic. The player is in control. You can't just record a "set" scene and play it out. Well, in cutscenes you can. What they have is complex engines that try to simulate this.
 

ThatPolishGuy

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Games are much more complex. Music is easy. There's only one way it's intended to sound. And listened. Games are chaotic. The player is in control. You can't just record a "set" scene and play it out. Well, in cutscenes you can. What they have is complex engines that try to simulate this.
I know that, but if all samples are recorded like this and tempest engine puts it all together - you could use almost every headset and not be like "I neeed PS5 3d headset". That was the "treat" and my intention with this post - the key word in my previous post was sample not set or scene. I have good hifi stereo headphones and I think they will kick ass with PS5, for example.
 
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I know that, but if all samples are recorded like this and tempest engine puts it all together - you could use almost every headset and not be like "I neeed PS5 3d headset". That was the "treat" and my intention with this post - the key word in my previous post was sample not set or scene. I have good hifi stereo headphones and I think they will kick ass with PS5, for example.

Sure but I’m not convinced that you can simply record samples like this and make it work in a game engine. Just to clarify, I was a recording engineer and have done sound design for a game, but I have to admit I have zero experience with binaural sound, especially in game engines. I just know that it works in music because the concept of how it’s recorded and played back is actually very simple, but there is only one outcome, only one recording. You can’t just then take this binaural recording and have it play out differently in different game scenarios. Or that’s what I think, based on my studies and the work I’ve done. But I could be wrong. But if I had to bet on it I’d say that the sounds are recorded normally and then the engine does some magic with it.
 

Elog

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There are a lot of people in here missing out the complexities of sound.

To perfectly present sound to an audience is very hard - and that is in a static, i.e. pre-recorded, environment such as a movie. Even when the sounds and their positions are known entities prior to the experience there are competing technologies and standards to make it sound good. You can listen to various 3D sound demos with your headphones to understand what this is (e.g. - please note I just picked one that was quick to find but I am sure there are betters).

However, a game is not static so sounds cannot be pre-recorded. To present great high resolution positional audio live for the listener when it is not pre-recorded is hideously complicated and hardware intensive. That is where tempest comes in. And this type of live positional sound creation with high-resolution (and the math behind it) is really in its infancy as someone pointed out.

Really looking forward how tempest will be utilized over the course of this generation.
 
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I do not think you can compare the kind of 3D audio simulation you had in GTA3 with what say PSVR offered (which required an extra custom audio chip offered in the PSVR additional breakout box and which the Tempest Engine replaces [and then some] in PS5) or what modern iPhones do with AirPod Pro in Spatial Audio mode...
The entire idea behind DirectSound3D was to treat sounds as objects in a 3D space, processing them realistically...so yes...it's exactly the same kind of 3D audio. DirectSound3D is literally the Spatial Audio API's predecessor (which is what Atmos / Windows Sonic are hooking into). These days you'd have to use wrappers because DirectSound3D has been dead for 15 years but once you have it all set up and apply a HRTF I can personally attest to the 3D audio in GTA3 sounding...incredible. You'd know that if you had actually tried it and weren't going off faulty assumptions.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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While most here would spend weeks and 100s of pages arguing about 1% frame drops and a few missing pixels that are largely undetectable, I thought it refreshing to focus a bit on something meaningful that will actually enhance and elevate the gaming experience this generation over the last. Here is a great read on what PS5's 3D audio brings to the RE Village Maiden demo: : https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/resident-evil-village-maiden-demo-3d-sound/

If you have a Pulse 3D headset for PS5, I highly recommend you try it with the Maiden demo! It's probably the best demonstration of what PS5's 3D engine is capable of thus far! To think what the 3D audio combined with the haptics/adaptive triggers and the visual fidelity at 4K/60fps could do for a horror game like Resident Evil....goosebumps!

Happy to see more of these games with proper 3D implementation! Sadly, I'm not interested in the game but this is only the beginning for amazing audio in games.

Also great 3D audio in a horror game doesn't make me wanna try it. :messenger_fearful:
 

Panajev2001a

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The entire idea behind DirectSound3D was to treat sounds as objects in a 3D space, processing them realistically...so yes...it's exactly the same kind of 3D audio. DirectSound3D is literally the Spatial Audio API's predecessor (which is what Atmos / Windows Sonic are hooking into). These days you'd have to use wrappers because DirectSound3D has been dead for 15 years but once you have it all set up and apply a HRTF I can personally attest to the 3D audio in GTA3 sounding...incredible. You'd know that if you had actually tried it and weren't going off faulty assumptions.
It is something I would have to try yes as well as look more in depth about the differences and evolution of the API (DirectSound3D to Spatial Audio to Atmos).

I am not disputing you could have created immersive sound before, I am still not convinced the same level of fidelity and amount of sound sources (as well as the complexity of the sound simulation) is anywhere near comparable to what modern API’s expose to games and dedicated HW blocks can deliver (which was obviously out of reach for PS4 and PS4 Pro hence the added HW component).
 
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They work fine and sound fine to me....enjoy your overpriced headset
There are lots of better headphones for very little more cost.
Xbots never mention it for obvious reasons. You have a free 'trail version', yes. But then it's 20 bucks for a software upgrade. No thanks.
Xbox doesn't charge for it. Dolby does
Binaural audio is superb on headphones

If they use samples recorded this way with this kind of microphone, we're in a treat


Or

Because it does not fake how we hear stuff it records almost exactly as we hear it.
Ear size and shape make for a surprising difference in how well that works. Most people is fine but not all.
 
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It is something I would have to try yes as well as look more in depth about the differences and evolution of the API (DirectSound3D to Spatial Audio to Atmos).

I am not disputing you could have created immersive sound before, I am still not convinced the same level of fidelity and amount of sound sources (as well as the complexity of the sound simulation) is anywhere near comparable to what modern API’s expose to games and dedicated HW blocks can deliver (which was obviously out of reach for PS4 and PS4 Pro hence the added HW component).
Well you see that's the beauty of exposing such things to an API. Back in the day they were certainly limited in the number of voices that hardware could work with (though that quickly lifted, EAX 5.0 could work with 128 voices in 2005) and you did need a proper soundcard but these days it can be done in software (and has to be since DirectSound3D is dead) and games of the era can use as many voices as your CPU can handle...which is rather a lot assuming it's relatively modern. Not all implementations sound the same mind, I find ALchemy too heavy on the reverb and prefer dsoal with OpenAL soft.

Also just thought I'd correct a misconception, Atmos isn't the successor to the Spatial Audio API. Atmos is EAX to the Spatial Audio API's DirectSound3D. The API exposes the voices and EAX / OpenAL Soft / Windows Sonic / Atmos / DTS does the processing.
 

Self

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Xbox doesn't charge for it. Dolby does

From a customer standpoint, it doesn't matter.
Would be cool if MS would cover the cost of a feature they so eagerly promote, don't you think?
I think sony fanboys would go wild if sony would charge them for the tempest engine. But no, it's included in the console price.
 
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From a customer standpoint, it doesn't matter.
Would be cool if MS would cover the cost of a feature they so eagerly promote, don't you think?
I think sony fanboys would go wild if sony would charge them for the tempest engine. But no, it's included in the console price.
Windows Sonic for Headphones does exactly the same thing for the low, low price of...free. Atmos / DTS-X aren't Microsoft's solutions, why would they pay for them for you? You can argue that Atmos sounds better...and I would agree...but it's not like you have to pay for it to get 3D audio, you don't.
 
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Great...BUT.... I don't use headphones for sound. It's not how couch gaming is done. They need to support soundbars, and surround sound speaker systems. That update should release this year. Slipping to 2022 is lazy.
 

ManaByte

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From a customer standpoint, it doesn't matter.
Would be cool if MS would cover the cost of a feature they so eagerly promote, don't you think?
I think sony fanboys would go wild if sony would charge them for the tempest engine. But no, it's included in the console price.

Xbox has Windows Sonic, which is what Tempest is: a way to avoid the Dolby licensing. On Xbox and PC you at least have the option for Atmos if you want it.
 
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Panajev2001a

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From a customer standpoint, it doesn't matter.
Would be cool if MS would cover the cost of a feature they so eagerly promote, don't you think?
I think sony fanboys would go wild if sony would charge them for the tempest engine. But no, it's included in the console price.
Yes, it is so often thrown in people’s faces as if it were free for the user but it is not.
 
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Tiamat2san

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Surround and binaural are different things.

Tempest Engine is trying to fake binaural so we dont need surround setups or BS 7.1 headsets.
Dolby atmos for headphones doesn’t require a special headset. It’s an app , you need to own the license. (Still you can try it for free)
But depending the quality of your headset might give different results (logical, the same applies for tempest)
 
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Salmon Snake

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I tried it last night with my Platinum Headset and yes, the sound is really amazing!
I just stopped to listen the raindrops in the cellar.

The RT in the fireplace room is also pretty amazing. I was just exploring how light reflexes from the floor 😁
 

Topher

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Haven't tried RE Village yet, but the sound quality of the PS5 is simply awesome. I've only played SM:MM but the improvement in the sound is more than I anticipated.

So how do I get comparable sound in my gaming PC? I've never used anything but the motherboard's onboard audio. Hard to go back to that after hearing PS5 audio. Recommendations?
 

Panajev2001a

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Dolby atmos for headphones doesn’t require a special headset. It’s an app , you need to own the license. (Still you can try it for free)
But depending the quality of your headset might give different results (logical, the same applies for tempest)
Still $20 or so cheaper to use Tempest for users (and cheaper for devs too).