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[Gamer79]

Toughen up man. I see a movie where real life people are getting sawed in half, raped, or ripped open. While a bit disturbing I know it is fiction. Same with games

 

[chemicals]

This same topic has been brought up since the beginning of videogames. My opinion is this: Videogames need to be as free of a market as DVDs and BluRays. Put a label on it, put it behind the counter, but it needs to exist.

 

[More_Badass]

I would argue that shooting someone with a NERF dart or laser tag gun is far different from "murdering" someone in VR. One is merely friendly competition or imaginary fun, while the other completely immerses you in real life situations with realistic results. Of course, one could also argue VR / video games are just friendly competition and imaginary or fictional, but I think as VR becomes more lifelike there will be more people pinning increases in violence on video games. It's just something we as a community have to be prepared to deal with.

I think if people can handle stuff like this

http://www.mckameymanor.com/

VR isn't going to be as effective as some might think

 

[QaaQer]

Yep. There is a very real and distinct difference between real violence and pretend violence. If you have a hard time telling the two apart, it might be better to stay away from both.

It is interesting that drone 'pilots' suffer the same mental issues that in the field killers do even though they are just looking at a screen.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

sn00zer you played Mortal Kombat 9 or 10?

 

[Spinluck]

Movies and TV are still far worse imo.

 

[psynergylover]

I will say the

Spoiler

. Prison Break chapter

was borderline rated M material

 

[The Lamp]

Um, I watch action movies so I'm not intimidated or weirded out by realistic gore or blood.

VR might be scary if you play a scary game but it's not going to be like committing murder lol

 

[Kinsei]

I can see where you're coming from OP, but it doesn't affect me. There's always been a disconnect for me in third person games so I see that violence like a would violence in a movie or a TV show. Sure first person games can get really violent, but the ones I've played have never stepped over the line from cheesy to realistic. Take DOOM for example: While it is super violent, it's also so over the top that I find it impossible to take seriously. Even in VR I doubt it would affect me. GTAV in first person on the other hand? There's no way in hell that I'd play that in VR.

Toughen up man. I see a movie where real life people are getting sawed in half, raped, or ripped open. While a bit disturbing I know it is fiction. Same with games

It doesn't have anything to do with "toughening up" some people just have different tolerances for this kind of stuff.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

The best solution would be if video game creators used this ability to truly show how horrible violence is, and guided players towards alternate, peaceful methods.

...totally won't happen though. <_<

 

[Raist]

It's fiction. People know this. The ones that don't already have mental issues to begin with.

 

[designgears]

I'm more concerned about the people that cannot separate reality from video games.

 

[Abounder]

Not concerned especially if Nintendo can stick around. If anything it gives a peaceful outlet for taboos like graphic violence/sex

 

[The Lamp]

I don't like hyper violence in any somewhat realistic medium (I can deal with Road Runner and Wile E Coyote). So I'm probably on the squeamish side of the scale. But I do find this trend moderately concerning - it's a bit of a dodge to just say "movies are violent, what's the difference?" The thing that draws many to games is the potential for greater immersion.

Photorealism can certainly enhance that. I was platforming around in a tower in UC4 recently and was surprised to find myself anxiously hesitant to make a jump. It looked too real to send Drake non-chalantly hurtling over the gap. It was just a moment, but it wasn't something that's ever happened to me with less realistic looking games.

And then take VR, where even with fairly unrealistic graphics, people are terrified to walk across a virtual tight rope.

There's extensive evidence that committing real violence can have lasting and profound effects on people.

Shooting a photorealistic video game antagonist on your TV screen isn't committing real violence, nor is doing so in VR. But we keep getting closer and closer to at least partially fooling the brain, at least partially down-regulating whatever self regulatory meta-cognitive mechanisms we typically deploy when engaging in good old fashioned escapism.

Edit: as a responsible cognitive neuroscientist I should clarify - I'm not saying you will ever NOT know you're playing a game, as in, you wouldn't be able to say "I'm playing a game right now." Rather, I'm saying that your brain does a ton of information processing, and what enters conscious awareness is only the tip of the iceberg. Many automated and lower processes work quite well, even when you're consciously aware they're misplaced. Highly salient emotional stimuli are processed by a privileged rapid neural pathway, and start triggering all sorts of physiological responses before the relevant percepts have even entered conscious attention. That's why horror movies work, even though you're perfectly aware they're completely fake. I watched Arachnophobia as an 8-year old, and permanently hot wired visual representations of spiders directly to my fear centers. No amount of top-down cognitive regulation can fully reverse that rewiring.

This is particularly frightening to me when paired with kids, who have more neural plasticity than adults, and limited self regulatory capacity as well. I sure as hell don't want my own kids engaging in a VR murder simulator or horror scenario at a friend's house.

Note, none of this is to say that many well adjusted adults or teens might not be able to engage in this brand of photo realistic violent escapism without suffering any ill effects at all. Just to say I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that it's inherently harmless and undeserving of careful thought.

Fair enough but I think we all have different tolerances for this kind of violence. But you're right that it's a valid concern that these kinds of games might be the new thing kids play without their parents knowing, like GTA

 

[MatthewTrujillo]

Everyone has a right to feel the way they do.... But these kind of conversations I fear will only stir up more crap when it comes to games. If you are worried about it then don't play it, don't watch it, etc. bringing it to the front and making an issue of it is only going to bring censorship. Ratings are in place, movies have been doing hyper realistic violence for a long time now. So I'm not sure what the point is. In fact it's blatantly obvious that as hardware and developers get better at what they do the realism will become more apparent. I don't watch porn and it disgusts me but I don't bring it up and I don't want it censored. I can easily avoid it it's simple. I don't need to start a discussion about it.

 

[Starfish Hero]

Big studios are going to stick closer toward stylized graphics and/or violence so long as the threat of an AO rating or an equivalent looms over it. Some indie developers will certainly want to make VR murder simulators, but they won't have the budget to make it look realistic any time soon. A VR GTA mod is probably going to be the most upsetting thing we'll have to deal with in the foreseeable future.

 

[TOM f'N CRUISE]

It's been an issue for a long time, but developers usually find an exaggerated, 'cartoonified' way to depict graphic violence even if the game looks much more realistic otherwise.

Wait until you murder someone in VR

or wait until The Last of Us 2

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Wait until you murder someone in VR

When you die in VR you die in real life.

 

[tensuke]

It is interesting that drone 'pilots' suffer the same mental issues that in the field killers do even though they are just looking at a screen.

Nothing to do with realistic videogames or vr, those drone pilots are actually bombing real people, of course they'll have the same issues other soldiers do.

 

[The Technomancer]

As others have mentioned, violence in VR is the one that has me worried. Not to "ban this filth" levels, but some people are going to generate some ugly, ugly stuff

 

[sn00zer]

sn00zer you played Mortal Kombat 9 or 10?

Yep, I find them a little gross, but they are so far removed from reality and generally wacky that I dont find them that bad. That said I dont like the games just because of that broken bone squeamishness rather than the actual level of violence.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Fair enough but I think we all have different tolerances for this kind of violence. But you're right that it's a valid concern that these kinds of games might be the new thing kids play without their parents knowing, like GTA

People definitely have different thresholds, no doubt. And I don't believe realistic hyper violence will turn most people into killers or anything like that. But I think it does desensitize to a point, even in well grounded adults, and it could have a range of worrisome and unpredictable psychological consequences on younger kids.

Experiences change people, and simulated experiences are experiences too. Changes needn't be catastrophic to be worth considering, is all I'm really saying.

 

[SugarDave]

I could open a new tab and probably find real gore and gruesome death in under a minute. I'm not really worried about videogame/fictional violence. I think a lot of games are far too reliant on it (although I understand why) and would like to see developers explore other ways to present gameplay, but that's a separate conversation.

Honestly, if murdering someone in VR actually managed to evoke a response from me, I imagine I would suddenly become a lot more excited by the possibilities of the technology and the medium.

 

[johnnydrama]

Imagine one of those bloaters ripping Joel's head apart from TLOU but with Uncharted 4 graphics.

 

[ghibli99]

I appreciated the restrained / action movie approach of Uncharted vs. the in-your-face rawness of The Last of Us (even though I would say I like TLOU more as a whole). There were still really tense moments, but it never crossed over into the gratuitous realm. I always feel bad whenever Nate dies and ragdolls though. Even though it can be comical, just seeing him flop kinda stays with you, depending on what he flops on, if that makes sense.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I remember everyone freaking out in 2014 when the GTA V first person stuff was shown off.

Yasss here's the thread

 

[Opto]

My issue with ultra-violence is that it's very rarely self-aware. Like, if you're making violence against another human being as realistic as possible, and the game isn't saying anything about violence as a means of conflict resolution, it begins to show the seam of story and mechanics. In some instances, violence is completely justified, but continuing it to be justified shows that it was easier to make than to add in a feature where mortal conflict didn't always arise.

 

[neohwa]

Well CoD, Battlefield, Until Dawn, GTA, Resident Evil, etc are much better examples.

 

[Loxley]

Yasss here's the thread

I remember folks were sure this was going to be all over Fox News and every media outlet was going to go balistic about games being murder simulators again. In the end nobody gave a shit at all outside of GAF.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

I think the difference is choice.

In movies you dont make a choice to kill or not which allows for the detachment necessary suspend disbelief. In gaming there may be, if only at the subconscious level an influence. I think this requires some sort of case study and not dismissed as overreacting. But I'm a dad and think about these things.

 

[takriel]

Solution: Don't overly rely on violence in your games.

Sincerely, peaceful gamer

 

[FTF]

Wait until you murder someone in VR

God of War (3) VR edition is going to be a workout!

 

[SolidSnakex]

I remember folks were sure this was going to be all over Fox News and every media outlet was going to go balistic about games being murder simulators again. In the end nobody gave a shit at all outside of GAF.

This has been the case for years now. The mass media in have really stopped caring about videogames in general for quite some time. The last time I remember games making major waves in the media was in late 2012 when the NRA tried to blame some flash game for school shootings. But in that case the media basically laughed at them.

 

[timetokill]

I think the difference is choice.

In movies you dont make a choice to kill or not which allows for the detachment necessary suspend disbelief. In gaming there may be, if only at the subconscious level an influence. I think this requires some sort of case study and not dismissed as overreacting. But I'm a dad and think about these things.

Absolutely. It's THE difference. It always blows my mind when people bring up movies and say "it's okay in a movie, why not in a game?" Participation matters.

For instance, perhaps the best moment in Telltale's The Walking Dead S1 is

Spoiler

when you choke out the guy at the end, and you can actually go so far as to kill him, but it's not required.

You can actually feel guilty about that, and some do. Now imagine doing in VR, with far more realistic graphics. I think it's silly to act like there's no difference.

 

[Valkerionseven]

Long as theres no boobs the west won't be offended.

Mutilate all the humans you want.

That obvious point made I personally don't like gratuitous violence in my games unless it's over the top/fighting something fantastical like monsters and what not. Don't need realistic blood splatter or situations ala GTA holding up a convenience store gif.

 

[kpaadet]

Not every game is meant to cater to everyone, if some thinks the violence is too much there are other games without it. In fact there are usually an entire console (Nintendo) every gen that focuses on non violent and non gory games.

 

[gafneo]

I think violence in games could stop real violence. If you are bord of it after it dulls your mind, get a life and do something productive. The more real they make it, the less reason you want to put yourself in real danger. People that don't experience violence don't understand the consequences it burdens you with. Pain and death is not something anyone should mess with. Once you make a violent mistake, there is no turning back. People act tough and think they are invincible. The reality is a real wake up call. And it is a very rude awakening.

 

[Illucio]

I still don't believe highly realistic games desensitize our children and makes them violent.

Checkers makes kids upset and for the parents that are so rude to turn off a kid's game halfway through is the equivalent of taking apart/ruining a parents 10,000 piece Jigsaw puzzle.

As a uncle of a 6 year old child who visits me every other weekend and plays my copy of Grand Theft Auto V (I tell him no, but his Mom says yes, and I no longer have a say. in that matter at that point other then to be the jerk to say no he can't play on my console.) The way and plays and treats the game is very clean though (I am worried for the day he realizes/figures out how to properly play the story/quests.). But in his perspective he enjoys driving vehicles, smashing them, enjoying the open world, playing online with people, and beating people up in a way that is equivalent to fighting people in a E rated game. He's not looking at people as "ordinary citizens" or "cops" that he is beating up, he is looking at them/viewing them at video game NPC's. So that's what I've seen and asked him in very nonchalant questions trying to get these answers.

But to find a game as equivalent and age appropriate for him so he can play a cleaned version of Grand Theft Auto that has all the things GTA offer in a fun way for anyone can play and enjoy is non-existent. And people who generally have that idea for a game in mind end up making a terrible game that's not fun, lacks a lot of content, and is trying to be too safe.

So no I'm not worried about hyper realistic graphics, but I'm more worried of the lack of variety and AAA game projects, and how attracted kids are to games that are for an older audience. But that problem doesn't stem from video games, one of my family friend's who is a big church goer just bought wallets for some young boys and I tag along when she dropped by to give it to them, her daughter (she's 9 years older then me) made note of how the oldest boy (he's like 9 years old at most) looked at the wallet and was asking himself if it was old enough for him because he didn't want anything childish and when he deemed his wallet older/more mature he said "Cool I'm going to bring it to school and show it off to all my friends."

-shrugs-

Oh you know, actually keep an eye on kids when they're playing games meant for a older audience and talk them through things while playing, like what is good and what is bad. Like an actual parent. Because that's what I have to do for my nephew, I just grab the Wii U gamepad or my phone and sit with him talking about this stuff. Kids aren't going to learn if you just tell them no.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Maybe there will be some great documentaries 1-200 years from now about "Big Gaming" like it's sugar vs metabolic health.

 

[HanzSnubSnub]

I think it's a growing concern with respect to VR.

The psychological impact of video game violence mixed with VR cannot be predicted. I think that's the most worrisome aspect. If it's on the TV, your not fully immersed. But in VR, it's tricking your brain.

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

I think it's all about context. Last of us has a main character die and I'm sick to my gut. But I kill "bad guys" and I feel nothing. Visuals will never trump that feeling to me.

 

[Militaratus]

Wait until you murder someone in VR

Can't wait

Spoiler

to see what all the fuss is about

.

 

[TheAssist]

I actually think audio design plays an almost bigger role. I find it easie to detach from the graphical stuff, but really realistic audio of someone screaming in pain. Holy fuck, thats intense. Couple that with graphics and you get some drastic scenes.

Though its not crossing a line as long as the game informs you about its audio visual violence. Its ok to not like it, but I personally have nothing against it. Certainly shouldnt be censored.

 

[Astral Dog]

I know this is an issue for some, and I'm not dismissing that OP, but I think for the majority it's mostly a non-issue. I'm completely able to detach myself from the violence I'm participating in digitally and realize I'm just playing a game, regardless of how realistic it looks.

I have a good feeling that most people that play violent video games, no matter how bloody or violent, are normal, level headed people in reality.

Maybe

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

I remember everyone freaking out in 2014 when the GTA V first person stuff was shown off.

Yeah same with those beach murders with a knife...

I think a lot of it is the difference between gas station executions in first person
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLSbVS-9caM
https://youtu.be/pZ4SrmlXO54?t=70
https://youtu.be/9avVrJ3LLew?t=47

vs in third-person
https://youtu.be/Ye7BZKiz20U?t=75
https://youtu.be/ObxTrqgtz5c?t=39

though that last one, had it Soldier of Fortune 2's gore system, would still be pretty harsh. which also highlights that GTA V actually often was that gory... it varied on the gun as some of them didn't have much blood.

speaking of which though... I want a new-gen Soldier of Fortune

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I have no problem with violence in videogames or movies but if the gore is too disgusting like Mortal Kombat fatality kills, I can't deal with it. It's the only reason why I can't play MK

Yeah, I checked out of that series entirely once MK9 brought on the X-Ray attacks.

I just have a low threshold for this sort of thing.

 

[spekkeh]

ITT a lot of people who don't know about conative persuasion and procedural rhetoric.

 

[iamaustrian]

I've honestly never thought about the topic or this post till now....

It's...actually kinda rough to think about, isn't it?

Manhunt 3 VR Edition - "Feel the Kill"

 

[odhiex]

For me, photo-realistic violence in games does not give me concern about the future of this media at all, but maybe for some people it does.

So... yeah, there will always two different point of views to look at this issue. I though Mortal Kombat in the 90's looks so real and graphically violent at that time, many parents (including mine) shocked about it.

 

[UnwrittenZero]

It is interesting that drone 'pilots' suffer the same mental issues that in the field killers do even though they are just looking at a screen.

Not everyone gets ptsd either, Its really up to the person.