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The representation of religion in video games.

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disastermouse

Banned
How do you feel about the representation of religion in video games? Does it seem accurate or even intelligible to you?

I see a number of ways it's treated:

Dogmatic bureaucracy

Literal translations of mythic subjects (angels, demons, etc)

Cults (usually insane)

Insanity without cults

Poorly constructed metaphysics used to prop up 'magic' or 'abilities'.

Being of an eastern religion (Buddhism), I am particularly frustrated with the ways eastern and pseudo-eastern religions (upon which magics are usually based) are depicted in video games. None of them seem to approach the subject very seriously or accurately. I don't know if Christianity/Judaism/Islam/Animism are depicted very accurately either.

Thoughts?
 
Religion is such a touchy subject even though a lot of the first world who play video games seem fairly secular and not involved and practicing any sort of religion. I assume this is why a lot of developer avoid any sort of heavy themes or icons.

Now occultism and various religious lore, that is very present. Lots of games pretty much just copy paste themes, styles and concepts from celtic druids, japanese monks and generic american wiccans.

Some good uses of religion in games would have to be the early Silent Hill games. They took ideas like a christian sect becoming cultist through manipulation of a spiritual power on some sort of indian burial group (Describing it loosely).

Religion in a lot of RPGs are just save point churches. :(
 
The only serious representation of Religion I've seen recently in games is in Binding of Isaac, and that is fundamentalist and disturbing.

Mostly it seems just a character/class trait, functional rather than anything deeper, i.e. the Monk in Diablo III.
 
Especially towards later in the Halo series you can see how the Covenant is like a religious terrorist group, moreso when they lose their profits.
 
Lightning Returns was basically anime jesus going around saving lost souls.
Then the final boss is god himself
which I notice is pretty common in a lot of jrpgs.
 
It's mostly surface-level understanding of the respective religion it is representing in each game. I adore some of the ways they remix certain mythologies, but in respect to Judeo-Christian beliefs most games try to be edgy and be like "oh now you're fighting demons, angels, and God himself. Or maybe God was actually an alien? Look how crazy this all is!" I've yet to see anything respectful in that regard, but I haven't really been keeping up with religion-heavy video games lately.
 
Joeku said:
"There is no greater glory than to die in service to God!" x 20

That isn't representation of a religion. It's a set dressing.
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Is the use of religion as set dressing an indication of the marginalization of religion in current culture or a general inability to depict religion realistically?
 
attachment.php


Well, Crusader Kings goes whole hog on religion. You can go on crusades, jihads, pay indulgences, try to get your bishop in the Vatican, forcibly convert conquered provinces.....I could go on all day...
 
Always enjoyed the SMT series depiction and attitude's towards religion.

Especially in DDS1+2 and it's very interesting utilization of Hinduism.
 
Mariolee said:
It's mostly surface-level understanding of the respective religion it is representing in each game. I adore some of the ways they remix certain mythologies, but in respect to Judeo-Christian beliefs most games try to be edgy and be like "oh now you're fighting demons, angels, and God himself. Or maybe God was actually an alien? Look how crazy this all is!" I've yet to see anything respectful in that regard, but I haven't really been keeping up with religion-heavy video games lately.
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of being respectful. Some aspects of religion are batshit crazy - but I find that even depictions of batshit are somewhat inaccurate.

As for Binding of Isaac, that seems more like mental illness with religious imagery, with the caveat that I haven't yet played the game.

I found some things Mordin says about reincarnation in Mass Effect 2 to be actually a little insightful. It was a brief depiction, but it was thoughtful.
 
disastermouse said:
Is the use of religion as set dressing an indication of the marginalization of religion in current culture or a general inability to depict religion realistically?
Click to expand...

My guess is that for the most part is just an element of mis-en-scene, though of the two points you suggest, moreso the latter though that doesn't necessarily suggest the former doesn't exist or at least isn't a worry; Assassin's Creed has had that "multicultural team" message in front of every game even though the only real possible worry about it would have been in the first two games.
 
soulassssns said:
Should games accurately portray religions?
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Well...they do portray religions. I don't imagine that the mythic will always be in fantasy of all kinds and I don't resent its utilization - I just think that deeper portrayals are possible.

Or is that an unwelcome element in games in general?
 
Civilization IVs use of Religion is simultaneously hilarious and brilliant - it's literally an arbitrary choice you make which religion you follow that spreads virally to any neighbouring territories and provides some marginal gains based on what sort of society you are running and what sort of dedication to that religion you have provided.
 
I feel like religion in games is usually used as a mechanic rather than to explore its concepts. Faith in civilization 5, or the pope in medieval total war is a good example.

It's unfortunate, because I feel like there's a lot to be discussed but no one really wants to go there since it's such a touchy subject.
 
NewGame said:
Religion in a lot of RPGs are just save point churches. :(
Click to expand...

They're either that or a group of evil old men who want to destroy the world for teh lulz. Usually either absolute good or absolute evil.

So far in the jrpg field I feel like the only games that portray religion in a mature/realistic way are the Kiseki games. Some wrpgs do it well too (I hope that the Pillars of Eternity lore will deliver in that regard), but it's mostly judeo/christian-inspired stuff. I'd like to see something closer to eastern religions sometimes.

OniBarubary said:
Especially in DDS1+2 and it's very interesting utilization of Hinduism.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.
 
ilnadmy said:
I feel like religion in games is usually used as a mechanic rather than to explore its concepts. Faith in civilization 5, or the pope in medieval total war is a good example.

It's unfortunate, because I feel like there's a lot to be discussed but no one really wants to go there since it's such a touchy subject.
Click to expand...
But war isn't a touchy subject? Or homosexuality (I have no problems with homosexuality - I'm just saying that it's a subject that was once difficult to broach), or drug use? Gaming has found ways to touch on those.
 
disastermouse said:
Is the use of religion as set dressing an indication of the marginalization of religion in current culture or a general inability to depict religion realistically?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's reflective of an inability to represent a nuanced understanding of religion, or just a lack of interest. Especially when dealing with religions foreign to the writers, picking up a few cool names or elements as set dressing may be the extent of their investment; allowing the creation of an exotic, mystic veneer with little effort.

Actually creating a narrative which made heavy use of religious themes beyond broad iconography and faux symbolism runs the risk of severely limiting the audience - broad concepts of heavens and hells, ritualistic symbols and supernatural creatures are universal and can be instantly understood by audiences of varying faiths, but a story specifically dealing with the minutiae of a specific denomination in a specific setting could appeal to a less broad demographic.
 
disastermouse said:
Is the use of religion as set dressing an indication of the marginalization of religion in current culture or a general inability to depict religion realistically?
Click to expand...

It's both.

disastermouse said:
It's not a matter of being respectful. Some aspects of religion are batshit crazy - but I find that even depictions of batshit are somewhat inaccurate.

As for Binding of Isaac, that seems more like mental illness with religious imagery, with the caveat that I haven't yet played the game.

I found some things Mordin says about reincarnation in Mass Effect 2 to be actually a little insightful. It was a brief depiction, but it was thoughtful.
Click to expand...

It most certainly is a matter of being respectful. Being respectful towards the topic you're covering, whether it's religion, culture or whatever, goes a long way with accurate depictions. If you take what you're depicting in your game seriously, then the complexities that come with that topic will naturally embed themselves into the design of the game and its story. If you don't take it seriously, you get the two-dimensional cult caricatures we've seen in AAA games for the last decade. It's boring.

I don't however believe games have a duty towards being accurate or respectful towards religions, but I believe doing so will lead to better stories in games.
 
soulassssns said:
Should games accurately portray religions?
Click to expand...

Accurately portraying religions doesn't mean preaching it.

Accurate portrayals will add to the game's own lore and better appreciation for those of us who are familiar with the subject.

Just as Assassin's Creed appeal can be enhance by more accurate historical settings as oppose to completely made up stuff.
 
Bioshock Infinite touches it with the baptism stuff. I also remember some athiest on reddit demanded a refund because they didn't want to press X to be baptised.
 
Being an atheist i like how Mikami depicts religion. Just robed loonies with no good intentions.

Also, there are no (popular) western religions anyway, they are all eastern.
 
Mariolee said:
It's both.



It most certainly is a matter of being respectful. Being respectful towards the topic you're covering, whether it's religion, culture or whatever, goes a long way with accurate depictions. If you take what you're depicting in your game seriously, then the complexities that come with that topic will naturally embed themselves into the design of the game and its story. If you don't take it seriously, you get the two-dimensional cult caricatures we've seen in AAA games for the last decade. It's boring.

I don't however believe games have a duty towards being accurate or respectful towards religions, but I believe doing so will lead to better stories in games.
Click to expand...
I guess what I meant was that respect wasn't specifically the point of what I'm getting at here, although you've made me reconsider disregarding it. If respect is required for depth, then respect is indeed important. I guess I equated 'respect' with skirting controversy regarding problematic aspects of religion.
 
I'm not trying to flame or anything, but OP, every single way its portrayed that you mentioned is a way that's well portrayed in real life. Not exactly exclusive to video games.
 
Is it actually possible without causing a riot? The shallow representation we see today is basically a "safe zone"?

Infinite tried and still came out meh.
Eller Shiddai was? Just bought it on hype from 8-4 but never played it.
But let me ask if there actually are any serious tries? And I'm assuming OP is talking "modern" religion only?
 
The Lone Courier said:
Bioshock Infinite touches it with the baptism stuff. I also remember some athiest on reddit demanded a refund because they didn't want to press X to be baptised.
Click to expand...

Actually he was a practicing Christian and he had a sincerely held belief that it would be blasphemy to press X to pay respects...I mean be baptised. Certainly interesting.

Halo, for sure, as well as Bioshock Infinite, are commentaries on dogmatism and religion. My guess is the intent was for players to examine the real religions they experience in life with the insight they got by seeing these extreme and caricature examples in the game.
 
Hmmm, the last game I remember that had an interesting representation of religion was with Bioshock Infinite where you get baptized and how it showed pitfalls of religion when people blindly follow it
 
I think that the reason the depiction of Eastern religions specifically frustrated me is that games typically focus on the most easily identifiable aspects of them. I'm a Zen Buddhist and the typictions of Zen I've seen typically seem to be focused mostly on Boddhisatva-like quasi-deities or warrior/fighter training.

It would be crazy to actually see a koan in a video game or for meditation to be portrayed as something more than mental preparation for killing.
 
El Shaddai is only game I played to come close to telling a heavy religious narrative. The way it was told allowed it to play around with the subject without getting too heavy handed with it.
 
I'm surprised Dead Space hasn't been mentioned yet. Unitology was thought to be a jab at scientology at one point.
 
Yeah, hard to do when you have so many interpretations of a given religion even among those that practice it (different Jewish sects, different Christians sects - Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Mormons, different sects of Islam, etc.....

While you might be able to hit upon some universal concepts, anything specific is likely by nature to be controversial or offputting.

Using Christianity, even something as basic as Genesis varies - some see it as literal, others as allegory.

Much easier just to make up your own religion for the game than worry about repercussions of offending someone.
 
Eggbok said:
I'm surprised Dead Space hasn't been mentioned yet. Unitology was thought to be a jab at scientology at one point.
Click to expand...

It wasn't? It felt so. I've only played the first 2 games though and just the beginning of DS3 before I kinda forgot about it.
 
Biker said:
attachment.php


Well, Crusader Kings goes whole hog on religion. You can go on crusades, jihads, pay indulgences, try to get your bishop in the Vatican, forcibly convert conquered provinces.....I could go on all day...
Click to expand...

Jap. Paradox as always handles Religion like it is. With no holding back:
3.jpg
 
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